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Apple Releases New Crap
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subego
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Oct 16, 2014, 03:34 PM
 
This got an actualol:

     
ort888
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Oct 16, 2014, 03:51 PM
 
The new iPad Mini is EXACTLY the same as the last one, but with Touch ID. That seems pretty bonkers to me.

I think they've hit a wall with the iPad. I'm not sure I see a compelling reason why 90% of the populace would not just save the $100 and go with last years model. And I'm talking about the new Air, not just the mini.

18% thinner? Meh. New camera? Meh. Slightly faster? Meh? Touch ID? Meh... I mean, sure, it's a year over year incremental update, I'm not expecting huge leaps every year... but at the same time, I think we've almost gotten to the point where a press conference isn't required for new iPads.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/

Look at how confusing the current iPad lineup is. Now try to explain it to your mom. Good luck. (140 SKUs?!?)

The retina iMac is a little cheaper than expected but I don't really care.

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starman
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Oct 16, 2014, 03:52 PM
 
So an MS fanboy hates Apple products.

Shocker.

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subego  (op)
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Oct 16, 2014, 03:56 PM
 
You don't have to be an MS fanboy to notice the 16 GB iPad is a joke.
     
starman
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Oct 16, 2014, 03:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
You don't have to be an MS fanboy to notice the 16 GB iPad is a joke.
Oh? So someone like my mom who doesn't give a crap about Megathings but only about price thinks it's a joke?

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ort888
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Oct 16, 2014, 04:14 PM
 
When her $500 iPad runs out of space in a year she'll think it's a joke.

How much does 16 gigs of flash storage cost Apple? $5 bucks? Maybe?*

*iSuppli (sketchy I know, but whatever... it's close enough... says $9 difference in cost)

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ShortcutToMoncton
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Oct 16, 2014, 04:17 PM
 
Your Mom is also the same person who is confused when her camera roll fills up all available space in 8 months because she "didn't install anything on it!"
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The Final Dakar
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Oct 16, 2014, 04:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
The new iPad Mini is EXACTLY the same as the last one, but with Touch ID. That seems pretty bonkers to me.
Yep, $100 for just having touch ID. You know Apple is really stretching upgrades (or profits) when it won't even do an incremental update.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 16, 2014, 04:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
You don't have to be an MS fanboy to notice the 16 GB iPad is a joke.
Yep, base storage hasn't seen an upgrade during the entire lifespan of the iPad. Meanwhile we have more apps, better photos and bigger video.
     
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Oct 16, 2014, 04:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
The new iPad Mini is EXACTLY the same as the last one, but with Touch ID. That seems pretty bonkers to me.
Touch ID, cheaper storage upgrades and don't forget the gold!

Yes, it is very minor.

Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
I think they've hit a wall with the iPad. I'm not sure I see a compelling reason why 90% of the populace would not just save the $100 and go with last years model. And I'm talking about the new Air, not just the mini.

18% thinner? Meh. New camera? Meh. Slightly faster? Meh? Touch ID? Meh... I mean, sure, it's a year over year incremental update, I'm not expecting huge leaps every year... but at the same time, I think we've almost gotten to the point where a press conference isn't required for new iPads.
A little thinner and lighter is a funny thing, because it's pointless now but drives upgrades in a few years. The A8X is actually a pretty decent improvement in graphics performance, since the A8 is about 50% faster than the A7 and this appears to be a doubling of the A8. Also 2GB RAM, I think. But yes, if my mom was in the market for a new model, she'd get the cheapest big one, i.e. the iPad 4. She'd happy with her iPad 2 though.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
starman
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Oct 16, 2014, 04:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Your Mom is also the same person who is confused when her camera roll fills up all available space in 8 months because she "didn't install anything on it!"
She doesn't use it for a camera. She uses it for email and surfing. Now tell me why you need 32GB for that.

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Oct 16, 2014, 04:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Yep, base storage hasn't seen an upgrade during the entire lifespan of the iPad. Meanwhile we have more apps, better photos and bigger video.
Not to mention the OS is what? 4 times the size it used to be? It really is about time they did away with 16GB. If they really don't want to start with 32GB, at least do a 24GB version. It would make a difference. My 16GB iPad once I install 4-5 games on it is basically full. I frequently get told that a game can't update or load because there isn't enough space (You have to keep 1-2GB free in order to do over the air updates) and some apps require this space too. Its rather infuriating.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
ort888
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Oct 16, 2014, 04:51 PM
 
The last OTA update needed like 5 gigs...

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Spheric Harlot
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Oct 16, 2014, 05:01 PM
 
The iPad Air is perfect and exactly what was needed to get me to upgrade.

Less reflective, lighter, thinner: mine.
     
subego  (op)
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Oct 16, 2014, 05:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Oh? So someone like my mom who doesn't give a crap about Megathings but only about price thinks it's a joke?
If she cares about price, why would she get an iPad?
     
OAW
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Oct 16, 2014, 05:10 PM
 
Just copped an iPhone 6. It was delivered this past Monday. I've always had a 16 GB iPhone but it started to get pretty tight on my iPhone 5. Even with streaming all my music from iCloud and only keeping recently taken photos and videos on it. So 32 GB would have been PERFECT for me. Unfortunately, Apple didn't just make the entry level model 32 GB which would have been the consumer friendly thing to do. Instead, it kept the entry level model at 16 GB and doubled the capacity of the middle and top tier level. Which got me to spend an extra $100 for 64 GB which I really didn't require. And I imagine that will raise Apple's Average Selling Price (ASP) which is a very investor friendly thing to do.

So I've never had an iPad. I've successfully resisted it throughout its entire life-cycle. I came very close to getting an iPad Air last year but the lack of Touch ID and my ownership of a 2011 Macbook Air gave me a decent enough excuse to wait. Now that the iPad Air 2 has Touch ID as expected I'm finally ready to pull the trigger on it. Again, 32 GB would have been plenty but since I was finagled into 64 GB for my iPhone 6 I might as well get the same on the iPad Air 2 right?

The best analogy I can give for how I feel about all this is that it's like when you go to the strip club with your friends and you PROMISE yourself you are only going to spend $100 ... because at the end of the day a lap dance is still a lap dance. But then the next day your wallet is $150 lighter. And the only thing you can tell yourself is "Damn she was hot!!!"

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Oct 16, 2014 at 05:23 PM. )
     
ort888
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Oct 16, 2014, 05:12 PM
 
16gb base model is a big fat cash grab.

I've always paid the extra $100 for 32gb, because 16gb is just crap.

If the new base models had 32, there is a good chance I might not pay the extra $100 to jump to 64, because as long as you watch what you're doing, 32 is pretty decent. At least for me.

If the base model was 32, they would lose a lot of upgrade money. With the base at 16, anyone with even half a mind for this stuff pretty much has to spend the extra $100. If it was 32, you'd see a lot of people perfectly happy with that and not spending any extra.

16gb is really only an option for people like my parents who literally do almost nothing with their iPhones or iPads. Sure, thats a decent chunk of the consumers for these things, but anyone who is taking pictures, texting a lot, downloading games or movies, etc... (you know, all the stuff you're supposed to be doing) 16gb is simply not enough. It just sucks.

Shipping 16gb on the base model is Apple at it's worst. It's the ugly side of the company, calculatingly gimping their products to maximize profits.

If they bought into their own dogma of "shipping the best products in the world" and focusing on just "delighting their customers", they wouldn't be selling a new iPhone or Pad in 2014 with 16gb of storage They just wouldn't. 16gb of storage makes for a bad customer experience.

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starman
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Oct 16, 2014, 05:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
If she cares about price, why would she get an iPad?
That makes no sense.

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subego  (op)
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Oct 16, 2014, 05:48 PM
 
If I'm price sensitive, and all I'm doing is surfing and email, I should get an android tablet.
     
sek929
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Oct 16, 2014, 05:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
She doesn't use it for a camera. She uses it for email and surfing. Now tell me why you need 32GB for that.
First tell us how an extra 16GB of flash storage is some insurmountable hurdle regarding price on a new iPad. That should be hilarious.
     
OAW
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Oct 16, 2014, 05:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego
If I'm price sensitive, and all I'm doing is surfing and email, I should get an android tablet.
I bought my mother an Amazon Kindle Fire for just that reason. For what she's going to do with it dropping the money for an iPad Mini just didn't make any sense.

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subego  (op)
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Oct 16, 2014, 06:08 PM
 
Not to mention, Safari and Mail aren't very good.
     
Shaddim
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Oct 16, 2014, 08:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Not to mention, Safari and Mail aren't very good.
Yep, and by the time you install a few new apps to take the places of the ones that suck, along with the handful of other apps and games you want, you're running out of storage space. Any 16GB mobile device is practically worthless (at least most Android tablets that only have 16GB have a microsd slot for media files).

The way iPad pricing should be (wifi only): 32GB entry model for $499, 64GB middle model for $550, and a top tier 128GB for $650.
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Oct 17, 2014, 03:26 AM
 
One of my students has an iPhone 4 16GB, with 7 GB of free space. There are many people like this, and Apple does fine maximising their margins by catering to them and finally giving those who need more better perceived value for the upgrade price.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 17, 2014, 04:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Not to mention, Safari and Mail aren't very good.
I've yet to use and Android tablet that had anything better installed.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
sek929
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Oct 17, 2014, 08:18 AM
 
Not a fan of Chrome?
     
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Oct 17, 2014, 08:46 AM
 
Chrome is the better browser for my personal needs - but I use a lot of google services, so YMMV.
Cloudmagic, available for iOS, Android and the default on all of my devices, is a far, far better email client than Mail. You should check it out.
     
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Oct 17, 2014, 09:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Not to mention the OS is what? 4 times the size it used to be?
I didn't even consider that. That's a much better point.

Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
16gb base model is a big fat cash grab.
That reminds me, in days of yore that was standard operating procedure with Mac models. So I guess we shouldn't be surprised. But still, I don't recall storage being an area of cutting corners in the past.
     
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Oct 17, 2014, 09:06 AM
 
I tried Chrome following Phileas' suggestion for my incredibly annoying iPad Air (1?) Safari refresh problems - I suppose it could be the particular web sites I use, but Chrome was brutal for crashing - even worse than Safari (which crashes at least once a day as it is). We were guaranteed a crash per browsing session with Chrome. After a week or so, I just gave up.

Considering that the iPad is really where I do most of my browsing these days, the sad state of the iPad Air (1) is super frustrating. It's really quite terrible and in my opinion should never have been released with that problem (either the iPad with the RAM or Safari on iOS; opinions seem to vary as to the problem).

Hopefully the latest models have more RAM?
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The Final Dakar
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Oct 17, 2014, 09:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Hopefully the latest models have more RAM?
No word yet. I wouldn't hold my breath.
     
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Oct 17, 2014, 09:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
I tried Chrome following Phileas' suggestion for my incredibly annoying iPad Air (1?) Safari refresh problems - I suppose it could be the particular web sites I use, but Chrome was brutal for crashing - even worse than Safari (which crashes at least once a day as it is). We were guaranteed a crash per browsing session with Chrome. After a week or so, I just gave up.

Considering that the iPad is really where I do most of my browsing these days, the sad state of the iPad Air (1) is super frustrating. It's really quite terrible and in my opinion should never have been released with that problem (either the iPad with the RAM or Safari on iOS; opinions seem to vary as to the problem).

Hopefully the latest models have more RAM?

See, I don't have that problem. I really like my Air, going so far as saying that it's the best iPad I've ever owned. Safari refreshes too often, and I noticed that Chrome does as well after a couple of days of use without a restart but crashes - really, never.

I have no idea what might be causing this.
     
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Oct 17, 2014, 09:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I didn't even consider that. That's a much better point.

That reminds me, in days of yore that was standard operating procedure with Mac models. So I guess we shouldn't be surprised. But still, I don't recall storage being an area of cutting corners in the past.
iOS 5 on an iPad 1 weighs in at right around 3.8GB. iOS 7 on a first generation Mini is about 3.9GB. iOS 8.0.whatever is newest today is 4.0GB.

Growth of the iOS over two years is therefore 0.2GB. The OTA update is an entirely different matter- that's space for the compressed download, room to decompress, and some swap space.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 17, 2014, 09:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by EstaNightshift View Post
iOS 5 on an iPad 1 weighs in at right around 3.8GB. iOS 7 on a first generation Mini is about 3.9GB. iOS 8.0.whatever is newest today is 4.0GB.

Growth of the iOS over two years is therefore 0.2GB. The OTA update is an entirely different matter- that's space for the compressed download, room to decompress, and some swap space.
i.e., a 'used' iPad is more difficult to update with limited space. Thanks for the clarification.
     
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Oct 17, 2014, 09:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
One of my students has an iPhone 4 16GB, with 7 GB of free space. There are many people like this, and Apple does fine maximising their margins by catering to them and finally giving those who need more better perceived value for the upgrade price.
The way I see it. Tablets are media consumption devices, more so than phones, generally speaking. A lot of people buy a phone and barely ever use any of its "smart" features. So while I can understand phones being hobbled by a small amount of storage, particularly on the lower end, for a tablet that's a tougher pill to swallow.
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Shaddim
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Oct 17, 2014, 10:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
No word yet. I wouldn't hold my breath.
the Air 2 has 2GB of RAM (finally)
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Oct 17, 2014, 10:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
One of my students has an iPhone 4 16GB, with 7 GB of free space. There are many people like this, and Apple does fine maximising their margins by catering to them and finally giving those who need more better perceived value for the upgrade price.
16 GB is really, really not enough. I had to delete my music to be able to install iOS 8 (32 GB iPhone 5). I only later thought about the possibility to download the installer on my Mac and do the upgrade while my iPhone is tethered to it.
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Oct 17, 2014, 01:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
16 GB is really, really not enough. I had to delete my music to be able to install iOS 8 (32 GB iPhone 5). I only later thought about the possibility to download the installer on my Mac and do the upgrade while my iPhone is tethered to it.
On the one hand, I'm in the same boat. On the other, there's my parents. They have an iPad each (mom had one before me, in fact) and more storage space is not even on their radar. When they have to make an upgrade, they take that as an opportunity for spring cleaning, and for my father to remind me how he used to sell automatic forklifts with 4KB of memory, and what a relief it was when they could move to 16KB.

(I still remember when he got his first work laptop sometime at the tail end of the eighties, and was amazed that he was supposed to have an 80MB hard drive. When it was finally delivered, late but somewhat upgraded as compensation, I checked the specs. When informed that he actually had a 120MB HD, his eyes literally went round - one of the few times I've ever seen that.)
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Oct 17, 2014, 01:39 PM
 
Apple is devious. Waited for the announcement to pick-up a refurb iPad for my mother. The Retina 16GB model is being discounted at 16% vs. ~35% for the higher storage models. Apple, you dicks.
     
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Oct 17, 2014, 02:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I don't recall storage being an area of cutting corners in the past.
The late 12" G4 iBooks that shipped with 30GB HDDs had 10GB of space left out of the box.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego  (op)
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Oct 17, 2014, 02:12 PM
 
The original MBAs were pretty gimped.
     
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Oct 17, 2014, 02:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The original MBAs were pretty gimped.
I thought that was legitimate as flash memory was not cheap yet.
     
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Oct 17, 2014, 02:47 PM
 
The original MBA was a 1.8-inch hard drive.
     
ort888
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Oct 17, 2014, 03:29 PM
 
I like how they are bragging about dropping the price of the Mac Mini...

But yeah, the new cheaper Mac Mini has a much worse processor and identical specs to the old one, and the one that's actually a step up from the old one went up in price to $699.

2 year old $599 Mini = 2.5 Ghz Core i5 / 4GB RAM / 512 HD / Intel HD Graphics 4000
NEW! Cheaper $499 Mini = 1.4 Ghz Core i5 / 4GB RAM / 512 HD / Intel HD Graphics 5000
NEW! $699 Mini = 2.6 Ghz Core i5 / 8GB RAM / 1TB HD / Intel Iris Graphics

Am I missing something or is this a total shit upgrade?

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Oct 17, 2014, 08:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I thought that was legitimate as flash memory was not cheap yet.
The original MacBook Airs weren't Flash-based.
     
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Oct 17, 2014, 08:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
On the one hand, I'm in the same boat. On the other, there's my parents. They have an iPad each (mom had one before me, in fact) and more storage space is not even on their radar.
That's exactly it. There are a LOT of people like that.

Myself, I just ordered a 128 GB iPad Air 2.

Incidentally, it's 666€ before taxes. That made me smile.
     
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Oct 17, 2014, 11:48 PM
 
Is that what I said above?

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Spheric Harlot
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Oct 18, 2014, 04:57 AM
 
That's what *everybody* has been saying who isn't arguing that Apple are idiots for still offering a 16 GB baseline.
     
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Oct 18, 2014, 07:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
I like how they are bragging about dropping the price of the Mac Mini...

But yeah, the new cheaper Mac Mini has a much worse processor and identical specs to the old one, and the one that's actually a step up from the old one went up in price to $699.

2 year old $599 Mini = 2.5 Ghz Core i5 / 4GB RAM / 512 HD / Intel HD Graphics 4000
NEW! Cheaper $499 Mini = 1.4 Ghz Core i5 / 4GB RAM / 512 HD / Intel HD Graphics 5000
NEW! $699 Mini = 2.6 Ghz Core i5 / 8GB RAM / 1TB HD / Intel Iris Graphics

Am I missing something or is this a total shit upgrade?
I think you're missing two things: first, the max turbo on the new low-end mini is 2.7 GHz. This is down from the old 3.1GHz max, but it is not a big step down. Second, the graphics is significantly more than twice as powerful as the old one. Once again, Apple focused on graphics over CPU.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Oct 18, 2014, 08:46 AM
 
And the new Mac Mini has soldered RAM. Thats bang out of order. I hate that Apple does that. Computers shouldn't be disposable. Some get Greenpeace back on their case, that seems to work.
( Last edited by Waragainstsleep; Oct 18, 2014 at 01:37 PM. )
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Oct 18, 2014, 09:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
And the new Mac Mini has soldered RAM. Thats bang out of order. I hate that Apple does that. Computers should be disposable. Some get Greenpeace back on their case, that seems to work.
Shouldn't be disposable?

(I'd really rather have socketed RAM slots. I think I'll stick with my quad-core mini for a bit)
     
 
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