[bacchus]

Official call...gm is G48 and folks it rocks...

Marked difference in speed between g40 and g48...

DVD is perfect.

Quick Install

Imovie in Dock

I am a happy camper today...

Bacchus

[Norm1985]

Originally posted by bacchus:
<STRONG>Official call...gm is G48 and folks it rocks...

Marked difference in speed between g40 and g48...

DVD is perfect.

Quick Install

Imovie in Dock

I am a happy camper today...

Bacchus</STRONG>

And how the hell do you know it's GM?

[mftalon]

wow... I'm having flashbacks to the whole 4k78 deal.

Damn hallucinagens!

[Workers Comp Wampa]

Actually there are two builds of 5G48. One that has been sent out early to stores for demo's and is slow as it has Debugging code in it.

The second build of 5G48 is an optimized build that is lightning fast as it has all the debugging code removed.

Yes they both have the same version number but the results speak for themselves.

[jadolfsson]

is not 55 supposed to be the GM?
read that somewhere

[MacAttack]

Originally posted by Workers Comp Wampa:
<STRONG>Actually there are two builds of 5G48. One that has been sent out early to stores for demo's and is slow as it has Debugging code in it.

The second build of 5G48 is an optimized build that is lightning fast as it has all the debugging code removed.

Yes they both have the same version number but the results speak for themselves.</STRONG>

LMAO! Funny stuff, Workers Comp Wampa!

Any word on if the DVD player in 5G48 supports playback on "hardware decoder" systems like the B&W G3? In 5G40, the DVD player did not work on those systems...hopefully Apple will pull their heads out of their you-know-whats and get that remedied before GM.

[Naz]

that is great news...can't wait to get it...

[iamnotmad]

Originally posted by jadolfsson:
<STRONG>is not 55 supposed to be the GM?
read that somewhere</STRONG>

That was from railhead I beleive, and one of the most rediculous things I've read. It ranks right up there with the "two different builds with same build number" thing of 10.0.
Milestones are NOT set by build number, that's completely asinine. A date is set for a milestone, not a build number. There is no point whatsoever in setting a target build for a release.

[ 09-07-2001: Message edited by: iamnotmad ]

[neoTony]

Railheaddesign.com posted the G55 'rumour'. I'm not 100% convinced, but a little birdy has told me that 5G48 is GM as well. Plus, bacchus gets his information from around the same place I do *grin*

[chuckeroo]

Not to do the 4k78 thing, and not to question bacchus, but...
1. The "about" box says "pre-release" in it, and since they're going to change that and they seem to make progress almost every day, it would seem strange that NOTHING will be changed before the final is set.

2. MANY developers have said to look out for g51 this weekend.

3. The documentation that came with g48 is still pre-release build info. Such as "this build could mess up your stuff, so don't put it on an important machine" etc. The documentation with 4k78, if I remember correctly, was exactly what it shipped with.

Hate to be the skeptic, but can anyone else verify that this build is it? I am going to wipe my drive and whatnot as soon as this happens.

[ 09-07-2001: Message edited by: chuckeroo ]

[moki]

Whether 5G48 is the GM is not is fairly irrelevent. If Apple wants to ship OS X 10.1 in September, which they've stated they want to do, they'll need to wrap it up pretty soon. I imagine that whatever build ends up being the final, it'll be damn close to the recent builds.

XP is just around the corner, and the marketing hype from it will likely be deafening. Unfortunately, OS X 10.1 will likely be drowned out completely -- however people running OS 9 who have been reluctant to upgrade to OS X just may change their mind with 10.1...

[sungwoo]

Originally posted by Workers Comp Wampa:
<STRONG>Actually there are two builds of 5G48. One that has been sent out early to stores for demo's and is slow as it has Debugging code in it.

The second build of 5G48 is an optimized build that is lightning fast as it has all the debugging code removed.

Yes they both have the same version number but the results speak for themselves.</STRONG>

Ummmmm....
Can you tell us how much speed different between debugging codes' one and optimised one?
Just give me some examples...
Thanks!!

[ 09-07-2001: Message edited by: sungwoo ]

[V]

I've experienced some bugs with 5G48, the about this mac box says pre-release version, and rumors of builds in the 50 series are persistant. So I don't think this is the GM.

But the speed is still improve, it's more polish (more login icons, show info command in pop-up menu). For the stability I can't say, i just start using it but the finder freeze-all apps won't start bug is still there.

The GM is near.

[V]

Double post

[ 09-07-2001: Message edited by: V ]

[RichardS]

Can you tell us how much speed different between debugging codes' one and optimised one?

I haven't noticed too much of a speed difference between optimized and debugging versions of the same code. If I recall correctly, at WWDC apple said you usually got something in the range of a 20-30% speedup by going from unoptimized to level 2 optimization. You could get a bit more by going to level 3, but that actually increases the code size, consumes more memory, etc, blah blah, so Apple suggested using level 2 for most tasks.

That last sentence is important. Apple suggested that with X, memory is going to be a much more important limitation, and reducing the application size as much as possible was a Good Thing(tm).

I work with apps that are very small compared to what Apple is doing, and I really don't notice much change in speed at all between optimized and unoptimized builds. What I do see is ram usage. Whenever I compile with debugging symbols (which drastically increases the application size, a few hundred K vs. several megs), my programs eat *much* more memory than without symbols.

Anyhow, I really doubt apple is going to distribute any builds to it's developers that are unoptimised and have debugging symbols. They're just too easy to turn off. I would tend to doubt the '2 builds' theory.

Do you need to burn the update that you downloaded to install it or does it work like the 10.0.4 update worked?

[moki]

Originally posted by RichardS:
<STRONG>
I work with apps that are very small compared to what Apple is doing, and I really don't notice much change in speed at all between optimized and unoptimized builds. What I do see is ram usage. Whenever I compile with debugging symbols (which drastically increases the application size, a few hundred K vs. several megs), my programs eat *much* more memory than without symbols.
</STRONG>

Try taking a look at the object code from a gcc build; unfortunately, gcc is lousy at generating optimized PPC code. Hopefully that will change in the future...

[juanvaldes]

Originally posted by &lt;anon&gt;:
<STRONG>Do you need to burn the update that you downloaded to install it or does it work like the 10.0.4 update worked?</STRONG>

Burn.

Sorry guys this is not the GM. Close, VERY close, but no. As was previously pointed out the 'about mac' states (pre-release) and there are still a few bugs to clear up before they can send it out. Something to do with DOS which I bet Connetcix needs fixed, and a nasty bug related to the iSub. The GM will probably be early 50's, but that is just a guess.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
<STRONG>
Sorry guys this is not the GM. Close, VERY close, but no. As was previously pointed out the 'about mac' states (pre-release) and there are still a few bugs to clear up before they can send it out. Something to do with DOS which I bet Connetcix needs fixed, and a nasty bug related to the iSub. The GM will probably be early 50's, but that is just a guess.</STRONG>

He is right, the bugs mentioned are there in 5G48 and documented by Apple, so I don't see this as the final build. As moki said however, it really doesn't matter if it is or not... either way we are getting very close. Please, no jokes about two versions... people will take this seriously.

[karbon]

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
<STRONG>Sorry guys this is not the GM. Close, VERY close, but no. As was previously pointed out the 'about mac' states (pre-release) and there are still a few bugs to clear up before they can send it out. Something to do with DOS which I bet Connetcix needs fixed, and a nasty bug related to the iSub. The GM will probably be early 50's, but that is just a guess.</STRONG>

I heard the creation date on 5g48 was Sept. 1st, so I don't think this is the GM either. They don't need to be finished before around Sept. 10-12.

[jock]

I'm running 4g48 on a g4 450 with 640 megs of ram. Very stable, installs over the top of .04 (at your risk) but as people have already said this is very close. DVD playback is awesome, even on a test hack imac 400 with 128 megs of ram. The point is, this is Unix, does DVD palyback happen on any other varient? I don't know but if not then the people at cupertino need to be congratulated in the best way possible...

[sungwoo]

Originally posted by jock:
<STRONG>I'm running 4g48 on a g4 450 with 640 megs of ram. Very stable, installs over the top of .04 (at your risk) but as people have already said this is very close. DVD playback is awesome, even on a test hack imac 400 with 128 megs of ram. The point is, this is Unix, does DVD palyback happen on any other varient? I don't know but if not then the people at cupertino need to be congratulated in the best way possible...</STRONG>

Wooooooo....
Can't wait to 10.1.
Anyone installed 5G48 on very low configuration such as Wallstreet 233MHz or iMac 233MHz?
How is it? Let us know the speed about it.

[dark3lf]

While I can not find any problems at all with the build, it is not gm because it still says Version 10.1 (Pre-release) in the About box.

[RAILhead]

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by jadolfsson:
is not 55 supposed to be the GM?
read that somewhere
------------------------------------------------------------------------

That was from railhead I beleive, and one of the most rediculous things I've read. It ranks right up there with the "two different builds with same build number" thing of 10.0.
Milestones are NOT set by build number, that's completely asinine. A date is set for a milestone, not a build number. There is no point whatsoever in setting a target build for a release.

I guess you just can't read very well, imnotmad. Not once did I say that the GM would be 5G55, I said: "As far as which build will be declared Golden Master, Apple is hoping to have everything nailed-down by (if not well before) build 5G55 which is time slated for completion no later than September 12."

And yes, developers DO plan for target builds, and Apple has done so for years -- along with every other developer in the market. You set a date and tell your programmers you want "these items" fixed/implemented within the next 3 builds. And, uh, that's what is happening at Apple: they want 10.1 to ready no later than Sept 12, and they want all the features and bugs fixed and included before they drag things out to build 5G55.

Simple as that.

It's called scheduling development.

Maury

[RealMadrid]

Hi,

I agree with some of the above posts. The important thing is not if 48 is GM or what number is GM. Important is that we are nearing GM and that it seems as the system is impressing as the first post says.

I don't care about build numbers. I care about a great system!

[blythe]

Does anyone know if nice and renice work properly in any of the new 10.1 builds? I heard a fix was incorporated into Darwin a while ago.

[Millennium]

I still say there were multiple 4K78's. I have a "prerelease" version of it (yes, it's legit; thank you ADC!) and the final, and I do notice a difference in speed. It's not all that much, mind you, but there is a difference. I don't claim to know why this is, though.

Anyway, that deadline wasn't a set-in-stone "this build will be the GM" thing. It was a "we want to be able to go GM before reaching this build number" thing. Nothing wrong with setting a goal, is there?

Does anyone know if 10.1 supports Kodak Photo CD's as 10.0.4 does not? Please Test.

[tsheley]

I would like to know if the Que USB CDRW drives work in 10.1. They are a no go in iTunes and 10.0.4.

Thanks

[piracy]

Originally posted by Millennium:
<STRONG>I still say there were multiple 4K78's. I have a "prerelease" version of it (yes, it's legit; thank you ADC!) and the final, and I do notice a difference in speed. It's not all that much, mind you, but there is a difference. I don't claim to know why this is, though.</STRONG>

Millenium, I can tell you exactly why it is: the placebo effect. There was ONE 4K78, and we proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt. There was literally no room for question whatsoever. We took the Mac OS X Developer Release Candidate (4K78) and retail box Mac OS X 10.0 (4K78) and did every kind of checksum we could think of, including MD5, which there is no known way to crack at this time (for the purposes of file comparison). Both were identical in every way, shape, and form, byte for byte. Period.

Then someone claimed Apple actually built the "second" 4K78 with a FAKE MD5 checksum (which is impossible) just to FOOL people on the MacNN forums! And they weren't kidding; they were serious!!

In any case, there are three things certain in life: death, taxes, and that there was for sure one and only one version of 4K78. Any difference you think you experience can be attributed to:

1.) Placebo effect
2.) Stupidity
3.) Refusal to believe unrefutable proof
4.) See 2.)

Hmm, I suppose I should have said there are four certain things in life; the forth would be that 5G48 is not GM, for a myriad of reasons. The easiest to see of the myriad is that 5G48 still says 'Mac OS X 10.1 (Pre-release)' in the About box.

[ 09-07-2001: Message edited by: piracy ]

Originally posted by Millennium:
<STRONG>I still say there were multiple 4K78's. I have a "prerelease" version of it (yes, it's legit; thank you ADC!) and the final, and I do notice a difference in speed. It's not all that much, mind you, but there is a difference. I don't claim to know why this is, though.</STRONG>

I also have the "prerelease" of 4k78 (white cd with apple confidential printed on it, thank you Student ADC) and the final. I compared both of them using Toast, byte for byte they're identical. Must be a placebo

[jock]

Observations about 4g48:
Photoshop will crash if you have Nortons installed, a normal set of 9.2 seems to work but if you have a few extras then forget it, same goes for Office, stick to normal extensions.
DVD playback as I have said before is really superb....does any other version of Unix do this? Please post as I'm sick of dos clowns e-mailing me telling me of the flaws with DVD playback. Special note to wingers, if you minimise DVD playerto the dock it does not play in the dock, please do not post this as a bug!
Is it stable well I've decided to install it on my Ti book 400/256
all F keys work re sound etc.
One thing Seti seems to process faster....
Anyway come the 26th I think that we will all be surprised.

[sungwoo]

Originally posted by piracy:
<STRONG>
We took the Mac OS X Developer Release Candidate (4K78) and retail box Mac OS X 10.0 (4K78) and did every kind of checksum we could think of, including MD5, which there is no known way to crack at this time (for the purposes of file comparison).
</STRONG>

Forgive my ignorance...
What is MD5?

[xi_hyperon]

ugh... flashbacks to wincent.org last march...

[Silky Voice of The Gorn]

Originally posted by &lt;stevie&gt;:
<STRONG>

I also have the "prerelease" of 4k78 (white cd with apple confidential printed on it, thank you Student ADC) and the final. I compared both of them using Toast, byte for byte they're identical. Must be a placebo </STRONG>

So let me get this straight...instead of selling sugar-water, Jobs is selling sugar PILLS?

[ 09-07-2001: Message edited by: Silky Voice of The Gorn ]

[scarab]

<STRONG>
Burn.

Sorry guys this is not the GM. Close, VERY close, but no. As was previously pointed out the 'about mac' states (pre-release) and there are still a few bugs to clear up before they can send it out. Something to do with DOS which I bet Connetcix needs fixed, and a nasty bug related to the iSub. The GM will probably be early 50's, but that is just a guess.</STRONG>

We have to burn because Apple is asking developers to download the whole image. I guess they will convert it to a manageable format to be sent out through Software Update when the day arrives.

Some of the current problems:
DOS filesystem not working, and that's got nothing to do with Connectix.
It seems that there are problems copying files onto UFS volumes of FireWire drives.
The iSub causes kernel panics when attached during installation.
Keychain settings may not stick after the upgrade.

G48 is not the GM. Well, at least it should not be the GM.

[MadBrowser]

As several other people have pointed out, there is no way 5G48 can be GM... And it also proves there was only one 4K78...

Apple's build process for OS X is automated... Basically they have a machine (or set of machines) that do the builds at selected intervals. The insertion of the the build string ("4K78") is automated...

I found this out after the whole 4K78 thing when some Apple employees didn't even know if the developer "RC1" was the same as the shipping final code.

Anyway, they must be close, but not quite yet.

[iamnotmad]

Originally posted by RAILhead:
<STRONG>

I guess you just can't read very well, imnotmad. Not once did I say that the GM would be 5G55, I said: "As far as which build will be declared Golden Master, Apple is hoping to have everything nailed-down by (if not well before) build 5G55 which is time slated for completion no later than September 12."

And yes, developers DO plan for target builds, and Apple has done so for years -- along with every other developer in the market. You set a date and tell your programmers you want "these items" fixed/implemented within the next 3 builds. And, uh, that's what is happening at Apple: they want 10.1 to ready no later than Sept 12, and they want all the features and bugs fixed and included before they drag things out to build 5G55.

Simple as that.

It's called scheduling development.

Maury
</STRONG>

Maury, I was not attacking you, I did not mean for you to jump on the defensive.

Part of your statement is correct and is what I said in my original post. That a DATE is set. A build number is never set for a milestone. That's plain absurd.

Say we have a date set for 9/7 for the next release, while we are at let's say we set a target build of 250 for that release. Why would we do that? We could have 4 builds in one day a week prior the the delivery date, so we overshot our build target, oh well who cares?

Releases are scheduled by date, that's what is important, that's how you have your "shceduled development".

My responses are based on my personal several years experience in development at large, medium, and small software companies.

[iamnotmad]

ooops.

[ 09-07-2001: Message edited by: iamnotmad ]

does the 5g48 update install over exsisting OS X, like 10.0.4 or do you have to do a clean install?

[frock]

Bacchus is a nice guy, respect him.

[normyzo]

So what do people think this means? From Darwin Bug Tracker...

Bug #2736499:
&lt;GMT06-Sep-2001 00:27:05GMT&gt; V.M.:
Per management, mass update to close all X bugs prior to build 5G48.

It seems that, if we take this at face value, they will be hammering on 5G48 or something and not fixing anything but showstoppers...

[NeilCharter]

Just to throw another iron in the fire...

Found a MacConnection catalog in my mail this morning - on the back page an ad for 10.1 - and it says it is shipping today for $129.

Probably full of sh*t - but you never know

Neil

[SirCastor]

I guess I'm a little late to the party, but here goes:

Here we go again! Mark my words, there will be people arguing the build number the second up until the release. This 4k78 All over again. I wonder if we'll get any "Apple would never put a build number in a consumer release" arguments..

Have fun everybody, and be kind.

[Scott_H]

Just to remind everyone.....

Please don't post about how one can install a pirate build of OS X. We can't allow MacNN UBB to be used to help people get and install and trouble shoot pirate software.

Thanks

[JB72]

this conversation is not happening...

[Silky Voice of The Gorn]

Originally posted by JB72:
<STRONG>this conversation is not happening...</STRONG>

Arrrrr! Avast mateys, we be pyrating yon warez! Arrrrr...

[Deestar]

10.1 sounds like it's going to be awesome but a question for people with this build and a G4 multi procceser system, is the G4 multi procceser bug still there when using the modem?

[juanvaldes]

Originally posted by &lt;smurof&gt;:
<STRONG>does the 5g48 update install over exsisting OS X, like 10.0.4 or do you have to do a clean install?</STRONG>

It installs over 10.0.4

I don't know about the modem bug, I'm on a LAN, but they really SHOULD have fixed that bug a while ago. Can anyone confirm?

[selkirk]

G48 does not appear to be GM. A post today on the cocoa development mailing list from an Apple employee mentions documentation for features in 10.1 that will be in G50.