[chaldean oracle]

This is sort of a complementary thread to Hash's.

First, a little background:
I met my (now) wife, and her best friend, at about the same time. I liked them both.
Over time I fell in love with my wife. We "went steady". The friend, who lived in another city, visited from time to time. She's much prettier than my wife, and we're compatible in many ways, so there was always a little tension there.

Over the next year or two me & the wife got more serious. From conversations & letters, my wife & I both know that the friend had a crush on me at this time.

I loved my wife, had a semi-crush on the friend, but wanted to be with my wife.

Life goes on. We get married; the friend gets married, to a guy neither I nor my wife like. We live in the same town now, and all get together once a week or more.

I still have a crush on the friend. Lately it's been real bad. I love my wife. I don't particularly WANT to have a crush on the friend. Yes, I give envious eyes towards her, as she's still very beautiful. And when my wife and I have inevitable difficulties, it's easy to imagine how much better it'd be with the friend. And she likes me, enjoys my company, though I think she's long over any crush. Logically I know perfectly well that I have to exorcise any such feelings, that I'll drive everyone to misery just entertaining the feelings.

But how do I? My wife's feelings have always been complicated, given all the history. I can't exactly avoid seeing the friend entirely, since (a) it'd be rude (b) my wife would understand exactly why. So do I just wait for the feelings to dissapate?

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

I think a 3some would be a good idea.

[BoomStick]

Can the friend keep a secret?

[mitchell_pgh]

Here are your choices unless you want to be a dirtbag:

1: Stay loyal to the wife and try to keep the other female out of your life. It's EASY. Just say "I don't feel comfortable around XYZ" and the wife will get it.

2. Divorce the wife and go after the other girl.

[waxcrash]

We needs pics of your wife and the friend in order to help you.

[starman]

Just keep it in your pants and move on.

Mike

[James L]

We needs pics of your wife and the friend in order to help you.

Can the friend keep a secret?

I think a 3some would be a good idea.

[RonnieoftheRose]

Originally posted by chaldean oracle:

I still have a crush on the friend. Lately it's been real bad. I love my wife. I don't particularly WANT to have a crush on the friend. Yes, I give envious eyes towards her, as she's still very beautiful. And when my wife and I have inevitable difficulties, it's easy to imagine how much better it'd be with the friend.

I think you're a selfish moron. When you see yourself that way problem solved.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by starman:
Just keep it in your pants and move on.

Mike

Teh winnar!!

[Mithras]

I agree that you just have to shut your feelings down, however hard that might be.
As for how to do that, I'm not much help. Anyone?

MacNStein, glad to see you didn't project your own methods onto the situation

[SSharon]

Well I want to see pics of course, but my decision won't change. Be loyal. Whatever you do, think about the fact that regret doesn't change what you did. I think it will be easier for you (albeit slightly awkward) to be particularly open about this with your wife. She will then know that you are serious about being loyal and may even be able to help you. She may be able to prevent the two of you from being alone together for prolonged periods of time or something else.

[subego]

Originally posted by chaldean oracle:
But how do I? My wife's feelings have always been complicated, given all the history. I can't exactly avoid seeing the friend entirely, since (a) it'd be rude (b) my wife would understand exactly why. So do I just wait for the feelings to dissapate?

Sounds like your feelings may be complicated too. If your wife can't be mature enough to accept your desire to stay away from this friend, you've got bigger problems than this crush.

Admittedly, despite being in the right, there are an infinite number of ways that could go down in flames upon presentation. So I certainly don't envy you.

I can only state the obvious.

I get the impression your fantasies about a better life with the friend are just that, fantasies. Make sure your wife understands the fantasy is not reality. Your relationship with your wife is the reality, and is the thing that is most important.

Good god man, don't ever mention how the friend is more beautiful. I don't care if you both know it. Deny. Deny. Deny. I'm a believer in truthful and complete communication, but this just doesn't even need to be implied.

[edit: fixed the frigging split infinitive]

[Millennium]

You're not selfish for feeling the way you do, but I'm sure you see how acting on these feelings would be inappropriate. This would open up multiple cans of worms that nobody wants to deal with.

I do recommend much of the same advice that I gave earlier in the other thread. Try to rekindle and rediscover the emotions and the passion in your current marriage. I think you'll find it far more rewarding than this could ever be.

[sideus]

Yes, we need pics first.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Mithras:
I agree that you just have to shut your feelings down, however hard that might be.
As for how to do that, I'm not much help. Anyone?

MacNStein, glad to see you didn't project your own methods onto the situation

I've never pursued married, or otherwise seriously involved, women. That's just not cricket.

[FulcrumPilot]

I recall there is a cure for this in homeopathy medicine.

[speedballs]

Talk to your wife about it. Say that you've been having feelings that obviously aren't what she'd want. Is something lacking from your wife's relationship that you think you could get with the friend? If so what, and talk about that to her.

If the relationship between you and your wife is gonna work out in the long run you have to be able to talk about things that are shitty like this. It should make the relationship stronger, and besides I bet she's had feelings for another guy at one point or another.

[wolfen]

Originally posted by speedballs:
Talk to your wife about it. Say that you've been having feelings that obviously aren't what she'd want. Is something lacking from your wife's relationship that you think you could get with the friend? If so what, and talk about that to her.

If the relationship between you and your wife is gonna work out in the long run you have to be able to talk about things that are shitty like this. It should make the relationship stronger, and besides I bet she's had feelings for another guy at one point or another.

NO NO NO NO NO!

There are times when talking things over with the significant other is NOT a good idea. This is a PRIME example. Wife's Best Friend? No Fking way. Don't even gasp in that direction in her presence.

Look, chances are the wife is no idiot. She KNOWS the friend is a hottie, and catches the hubbie scoping her out from time to time. Men are dogs, she can live with that. But UTTER ONE WORD about it and you create a lot of unnecessary emotional torment for EVERYONE involved.

Grow up, tuck it back, shut down your feelings for this person, and focus on your marriage. Anything else is pouring gasoline on the spark.

[PurpleGiant]

There was a reason that you chose your wife over her best friend all those years ago. Remember what it was that made your wife a better choice, and work with that.

[chaldean oracle]

Thanks for the input everyone.
I know what the right answer is here: shut down the feelings, and as Millenium says focus on enjoying my relationship with my wife (which I do).
But of course some things are easier said than done. I know you won't have a magic answer for me.

wolfen & subego, I think you're right that talking to my wife about this directly would be poisonous. Everyone knows what's just below the surface, so I think it's better to just deal with it.

PurpleGiant, your comment is the one that really tortures me though, because I think the answer is: she lived in the same town, and the friend did not.

[Mafia]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
I think a 3some would be a good idea.

q4t...

if u are unhappy with your wife then you need to do something. otherwise stay loyal.

[speedballs]

Think of your wife checking out other hott(er) guys whenever you look at her friend like that.

[sideus]

Originally posted by speedballs:
Think of your wife checking out other hott(er) guys whenever you look at her friend like that.

[spacefreak]

I suggest taking the loving wife and moving away.

As for your crush, realize that you'd likely notice plenty more faults and issues with the friend if you were with her. And then it's possible you'd want someone else.

Have you experienced the friend's farts? Have you seen her pick her nose? Have you seen bloody residue in the toilet from her tampons? Have you experienced her bad breath, or her body odor? Fantasies are often void of this stuff, while marriages... well, it's part of the bargain.

All I know is what I read in your posts, but it sounds to me like the friend is a walking, talking pin-up girl who is cool, and who is way too close to you for your own good.

Move or divorce. Any other option is a catastrophe waiting to happen.

[AKcrab]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
I suggest taking the loving wife and moving away.

As for your crush, realize that you'd likely notice plenty more faults and issues with the friend if you were with her. And then it's possible you'd want someone else.

All I know is what I read in your posts, but it sounds to me like the friend is a walking, talking pin-up girl who is cool, and who is way too close to you for your own good.

Move or divorce. Any other option is a catastrophe waiting to happen.

I typed up something very similar... But then didn't post.

I think oracle is on the road to ruining a good marriage. Fantasies are fine, but they should only be in your head and in the bedroom.

The fact that it's real enough to you for you to post is not a good sign.

[acadian]

I found myself in a similar situation with a friend of my girlfriend. There was a period of time where i had the most insane crush on this woman. Though I was going through emotional turmoil, I chalked it up to being a passing fancy and just figured I would work my way through it within a month or two WITHOUT EVER SAYING A WORD TO ANYONE. Guess what, it was just a passing fancy, a manifestation of misguided feelings brought on by difficulties in my own relationship, the crush was not sincere at all and I am glad I kept it to myself and worked through it alone.

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by AKcrab:
I typed up something very similar... But then didn't post.

I think oracle is on the road to ruining a good marriage. Fantasies are fine, but they should only be in your head and in the bedroom.

The fact that it's real enough to you for you to post is not a good sign.

It's the "grass is always greener on the other side" syndrome.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

**** it. Roll the dice and risk it all.

Life's short... Worst case scenario they both dump you. However, it's not like there aren't more ladies out there to fall in love with.

[chaldean oracle]

Thanks again everyone.
When I think logically, I know very well that
1. If I do have problems with my marriage, then I need to work on those, to give me and my wife the best chance. And if things don't work out, get divorced before we have kids.
2. This must be independent of any other woman.
3. As so many have said, fantasies of a better life with another woman are just that, fantasies.
4. My wife IS great, and so what if she's less pretty than this friend? There will always be prettier women.
6. Who the hell am I to idly wonder whether the friend would drop HER life for me anyway? Selfish jerk indeed.
7. This too shall pass. I think acadian is right, I've had washes of this before and I just need to hunker down, let it pass by, and enjoy my wonderful wife.

spacefreak/AKCrab, moving isn't really an option, but we will be going on a long vacation together soon, so hopefully that will help me clear my head, and enjoy my wife.

As for those demanding pictures, no way I could post those in a public forum. Maybe if you PM'd me with a bio, where you're from, went to school etc., so I can know we don't know you, if you really want to satisfy your curiosity. But I shouldn't play to this beauty comparison instinct anyway.

I think mostly this issue arises from unresolved feelings I have that my wife really pushed the growing seriousness of our relationship. Again, not that I didn't love her, but that I felt led into it maybe before I was ready. So I have lingering "what if" feelings...

Thanks again, and I'll check in again in awhile with an update.

[Ratspittle]

I believe marriage is an outdated institution. What do you really get out of it?! If you love someone enough you stay together....thats that. If not, you leave...no separation agreements, no alimony, no social security forfeture, no lawyers. When you get married (and I know, I was married for ten years) both parties tend to neglect their personal appearance, their manners, and their own well being. It seems to settle into a comfortable groove...for a while, and then it gets old. I have many married friends, and as a bartender I hear a lot of sob stories. I'm not saying there are not exceptions, but overall marriage is a losing proposition (no pun intended).
You are obviously not happy somewhere in your marriage, cut your losses, get out and start over with all your prior experience under you belt, and forget about the friend...she was just a sign to tell you something else was wrong.
Just my 2c.

-Very happily recently separated (wake up every day with a smile on my face, and sometimes a girl in my bed)

[Randman]

Just because you had a bad experience, it doesn't mean it's that way for everyone.

[wolfen]

Originally posted by Ratspittle:
I believe marriage is an outdated institution. What do you really get out of it?! If you love someone enough you stay together....thats that. If not, you leave...no separation agreements, no alimony, no social security forfeture, no lawyers. When you get married (and I know, I was married for ten years) both parties tend to neglect their personal appearance, their manners, and their own well being. It seems to settle into a comfortable groove...for a while, and then it gets old. I have many married friends, and as a bartender I hear a lot of sob stories. I'm not saying there are not exceptions, but overall marriage is a losing proposition (no pun intended).
You are obviously not happy somewhere in your marriage, cut your losses, get out and start over with all your prior experience under you belt, and forget about the friend...she was just a sign to tell you something else was wrong.
Just my 2c.

-Very happily recently separated (wake up every day with a smile on my face, and sometimes a girl in my bed)

Aw, that's so sweet.


The fact that there are happily married people kinda throws the "outdated institution theory" out the window. But I agree that some people are not fit for marriage.

Good luck, Oracle. I hope you can allow yourself to commit fully to your wife and make the marriage a smashing success.

[Millennium]

Moving away would probably be the best solution for you, but it would almost certainly not be the best solution for your wife. This is compounded by the fact that discussing these emotions with her would be unwise, so asking you to move is tantamount to asking you to pick her up and move her without giving her any explanation as to why. It would be a final solution, and a clean one as far as you are concerned, but your situation makes it impractical.

As for Ratspittle's commentary on marriage, and how married couples tend to "to neglect their personal appearance, their manners, and their own well being", this is true, but it's also a large part of the point. We live in societies bound by strangling rules of etiquette and social mores, and a large part of this is inherent in the nature of social interaction itself. You may be able to change the particulars depending on where you go, but you can never truly escape it. This is not an evil thing -most people wouldn't be able to stand being around each other without it- but it causes enormous stress, and that stress can get to people after a while.

When all is said and done, the concept of home is a place where one can be free of this burden, just for a little while. Although the purpose and intent of marriage can be debated, particularly from culture to culture, the execution is almost always the same: sharing a home, and with it the dropping of our social masks. People who cannot stand to be around each other without these masks are not really in love, however much they think they might be. With real love comes acceptance of a person's flaws as well as their strengths, and two people who cannot do this have no business being married. What Ratspittle sees is not the fading of an institution, but the products of a society whose people can no longer easily understand the concept of a "real person" versus the social facade. They enter into marriage little more prepared for it than a pair of kindergarteners playing dress-up. In fact, it could be argued that they enter into marriage even less prepared than that, given that few kindergarteners have had time to fully develop their social masks yet.

[Wiskedjak]

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by chaldean oracle:
This is sort of a complementary thread to Hash's.

First, a little background:
I met my (now) wife, and her best friend, at about the same time. I liked them both.
Over time I fell in love with my wife. We "went steady". The friend, who lived in another city, visited from time to time. She's much prettier than my wife, and we're compatible in many ways, so there was always a little tension there.

Over the next year or two me & the wife got more serious. From conversations & letters, my wife & I both know that the friend had a crush on me at this time.

I loved my wife, had a semi-crush on the friend, but wanted to be with my wife.

Life goes on. We get married; the friend gets married, to a guy neither I nor my wife like. We live in the same town now, and all get together once a week or more.

I still have a crush on the friend. Lately it's been real bad. I love my wife. I don't particularly WANT to have a crush on the friend. Yes, I give envious eyes towards her, as she's still very beautiful. And when my wife and I have inevitable difficulties, it's easy to imagine how much better it'd be with the friend. And she likes me, enjoys my company, though I think she's long over any crush. Logically I know perfectly well that I have to exorcise any such feelings, that I'll drive everyone to misery just entertaining the feelings.

But how do I? My wife's feelings have always been complicated, given all the history. I can't exactly avoid seeing the friend entirely, since (a) it'd be rude (b) my wife would understand exactly why. So do I just wait for the feelings to dissapate?

First of all, you cannot control falling in love, so nobody can blame you for doing so.

Then, especially if nothing has happened yet, stop seeing her for a longer time. Other than that, there is no solution, because if you keep her seeing regularly, the attraction will be feed enough so it doesn't die.

[moonmonkey]

Originally posted by speedballs:
Talk to your wife about it. Say that you've been having feelings that obviously aren't what she'd want. Is something lacking from your wife's relationship that you think you could get with the friend? If so what, and talk about that to her.

If the relationship between you and your wife is gonna work out in the long run you have to be able to talk about things that are shitty like this. It should make the relationship stronger, and besides I bet she's had feelings for another guy at one point or another.

Your joking right?

[hart]

Originally posted by moonmonkey:
Your joking right?

I agree. Joke, right?

There is no way telling your spouse about your feelings is anything but hurtful. It has nothing to do with the strength of your marriage. You can steer your life away from seeing this person w/o having to say anything.

Suck it up and move on.

[ebuddy]

I have a question Chaldean; you've already made a mistake with this girl haven't you?

I'm not trying to be insensitive, I'm just trying to understand something. I have the feeling you've already at least kissed this friend of your wife's. Am I wrong?

I agree with others that say; telling her about this is not necessarily a good idea. Get involved in something conveniently the same time this girl comes out. It may be viewed as somewhat rude, but hey-galking at her is not very polite to your wife either. Also, it's your wife's best friend, not yours. You are perfectly welcome to join a dart league or something and POOF be gone on the nights the friend is over. Let your wife know you're allowing her some 'girl time' and just do your own thing. You absolutely have to keep yourself out of harm's way. If you have not yet made a mistake, the two of you are just waiting for the perfect opportunity to make one and it will happen. This only has one conclusion while the both of your are married to someone else and the conclusion is disastrous for all those involved. Not to mention you coming in as a third party and destroying the friendship your wife had built with her friend prior to you hooking up with your wife. Bail! Yes, it's rude. Be annoyed that they want to sit and talk about girlie stuff. Be annoyed and go find something else to do. Besides, with you not there your wife's friend may begin to come around a little less frequently and this will help matters for you and your wife.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by ebuddy:
I have a question Chaldean; you've already made a mistake with this girl haven't you?

I'm not trying to be insensitive, I'm just trying to understand something. I have the feeling you've already at least kissed this friend of your wife's. Am I wrong?

I agree with others that say; telling her about this is not necessarily a good idea. Get involved in something conveniently the same time this girl comes out. It may be viewed as somewhat rude, but hey-galking at her is not very polite to your wife either. Also, it's your wife's best friend, not yours. You are perfectly welcome to join a dart league or something and POOF be gone on the nights the friend is over. Let your wife know you're allowing her some 'girl time' and just do your own thing. You absolutely have to keep yourself out of harm's way. If you have not yet made a mistake, the two of you are just waiting for the perfect opportunity to make one and it will happen. This only has one conclusion while the both of your are married to someone else and the conclusion is disastrous for all those involved. Not to mention you coming in as a third party and destroying the friendship your wife had built with her friend prior to you hooking up with your wife. Bail! Yes, it's rude. Be annoyed that they want to sit and talk about girlie stuff. Be annoyed and go find something else to do. Besides, with you not there your wife's friend may begin to come around a little less frequently and this will help matters for you and your wife.

What happened or did not happen is irrelevant.
It's the feelings for the other girl that will hurt his wife, not what actually happened.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
What happened or did not happen is irrelevant.
It's the feelings for the other girl that will hurt his wife, not what actually happened.

That depends. If he's already done something rash, then he has some major sword-falling to do. She'll find out eventually, and the only way he's even got a chance is if she finds out from him.

[ebuddy]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
What happened or did not happen is irrelevant.
It's the feelings for the other girl that will hurt his wife, not what actually happened.

Call me crazy, but I think the differences are actually quite staggering. It's the difference between; "gee, I think my husband finds that girl attractive" and "I wonder why they did it on our kitchen counter." That said; my point remains. Action needs to be taken in order for Chaldean to avoid encounters with this girl or the latter of my examples will likely be the scenario. They're both just waiting for this to happen, it's a matter of timing alone that separates a guy who wants to do something wrong from a guy who does something wrong. I get the impression that this situation has already exceeded mere thoughts and has moved toward action. An equal or opposite reaction is in order. That's all. I'm in favor of letting the girls enjoy one-another's company without our friend Chaldean being around.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by Millennium:
That depends. If he's already done something stupid, then he has some major sword-falling to do. She'll find out eventually, and the only way he's even got a chance is if she finds out from him.

What will hurt is the meaning connected to these acts, and not the act itself. If he tells his wife about it, even if nothing has happened, he'll have a major problem. You are right about the difference, though: it is far more likely for his wife to find out if something has happened.

If he tells her, he has to be ready to tell everything. Depending on how his feelings have developed, he may not have a choice but tell her eventually. It's a big risk, one way or the other.

In the end, if he cannot stop to get more and more emotionally involved (no matter what `really' happens), I would be inclined to advise him to talk to her about it.

[budster101]

Second the [pics] comment.

[Cody Dawg]

spacefreak said
Have you experienced the friend's farts? Have you seen her pick her nose? Have you seen bloody residue in the toilet from her tampons? Have you experienced her bad breath, or her body odor?

spacefreak, no disrespect intended, but if a man had to live with what you're describing he would want to get away...I'm a woman and if I shared a place with a woman who was all of those things you've described I would move OUT.

That's kind of really disgusting. I don't live that way and not many women that I'm friends with or know well do either.



Regarding the problem, I would say that if your feelings are extremely intense go see someone and talk it over with a counselor.

Otherwise, do NOT tell your wife about your feelings and instead tell her you think you're going through a midlife crisis and need to sort things out.

If necessary, get a trial separation and see how it goes. Sometimes it's easy to romanticize situations...but when put into action reality sets in.

Good luck.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by ebuddy:
Call me crazy, but I think the differences are actually quite staggering. It's the difference between; "gee, I think my husband finds that girl attractive" and "I wonder why they did it on our kitchen counter." That said; my point remains. Action needs to be taken in order for Chaldean to avoid encounters with this girl or the latter of my examples will likely be the scenario. They're both just waiting for this to happen, it's a matter of timing alone that separates a guy who wants to do something wrong from a guy who does something wrong. I get the impression that this situation has already exceeded mere thoughts and has moved toward action. An equal or opposite reaction is in order. That's all. I'm in favor of letting the girls enjoy one-another's company without our friend Chaldean being around.

No, because when he tells her the first, images of the second will be created instantly.

But we don't agree on the counter measure. Because if he gets more and more interested in the second, then this will pose an even bigger problem.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by chaldean oracle:
...

PurpleGiant, your comment is the one that really tortures me though, because I think the answer is: she lived in the same town, and the friend did not.

Don't get me wrong, but this is seriously not a good reason. And definitely you should never tell your wife.

It sounds like that if both girls would have lived in the same city, you would have chosen the other one and not the (no offense intended) convenient choice.

[ASIMO]

So I take it that swinging is out of the question?

[budster101]

For every hot chick out there, there is at least one guy who is sick and tired of her.

Keep the wife you cheat-minded i-don't-know-what-i-got-till-i-chase-it-off fool.

Sheesh.

Pics of the friend?

[AssassyN]

You vowed to love her until death did you part.

You ain't dead yet.

[ASIMO]

Originally posted by AssassyN:
You vowed to love her until death did you part.

You ain't dead yet.

Nor are the divorced/estranged/separated.