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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Alternative Operating Systems > No bootcamp for 10.4 to download anymore?

No bootcamp for 10.4 to download anymore?
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utw-Mephisto
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Oct 27, 2007, 08:12 AM
 
or am I just too stupid to find it ?

Now I can only find the introduction for Leopard and bootcamp integrated .. but I'd like to reinstall bootcamp on my MacBook with 10.4.10
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MartiNZ
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Oct 27, 2007, 08:33 AM
 
I think they said the beta that had been free for Tiger users would be expiring on the release of Leopard. While I'm not sure how that works exactly, given that it's really only about the drivers, I guess it does mean they're not offering it for download anymore.
     
Cold Warrior
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Oct 27, 2007, 09:31 AM
 
no, you're not too stupid to find it. They removed it recently, and announced that people would have to upgrade to 10.5 to continue using Boot Camp. However, I don't know if Boot Camp has some kind of expiration timer, where it won't allow you to select Windows after a certain date, or if you just won't be able to get updated drivers. There's a lot Apple left unexplained here.
     
TheoCryst
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Oct 27, 2007, 02:44 PM
 
Windows will continue to be bootable, whether you purchase Leopard or not. The only thing you're missing out on is the ability to edit the partitions with the Boot Camp Utility and the steady flow of driver updates Apple is likely to provide for Leopard users.

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PaperNotes
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Oct 27, 2007, 04:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheoCryst View Post
Windows will continue to be bootable, whether you purchase Leopard or not. The only thing you're missing out on is the ability to edit the partitions with the Boot Camp Utility and the steady flow of driver updates Apple is likely to provide for Leopard users.
For Vista users the OS will download up to date drivers all the time. As for XP and Vista graphics drivers you are better off downloading your own drivers than the ones Apple supplies.
     
mduell
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Oct 27, 2007, 04:51 PM
 
It's now $129, and comes with a free copy of Leopard.

Softpedia still has it.
     
shinykaro
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Oct 27, 2007, 07:59 PM
 
In case anyone is interested in removing a partition without having to buy Leopard: Boot Camp beta does have a timer, and you will not be able to run Boot Camp Assistant because of it. One stupidly easy workaround is simply to change the date and time on your computer back a few months, and then do whatever you need to before changing it back. No need for an upgrade, formatting, or third party apps!
     
Cold Warrior
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Oct 27, 2007, 08:06 PM
 
I fired up Boot Camp under Leopard and didn't see an option to burn a Windows drivers disc. Is this normal?
     
brokenjago
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Oct 27, 2007, 08:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
I fired up Boot Camp under Leopard and didn't see an option to burn a Windows drivers disc. Is this normal?
Yes. The Leopard disc is the drivers disc now.
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ghporter
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Oct 27, 2007, 09:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by shinykaro View Post
In case anyone is interested in removing a partition without having to buy Leopard: Boot Camp beta does have a timer, and you will not be able to run Boot Camp Assistant because of it. One stupidly easy workaround is simply to change the date and time on your computer back a few months, and then do whatever you need to before changing it back. No need for an upgrade, formatting, or third party apps!
Which version of Boot Camp do you have installed? Apple said that versions 1.1 and 1.2 expired...and that the fix was to upgrade to version 1.4. I'm assuming that this means that 1.4 didn't expire. But I haven't had the chance to test that and I'm not where I can right now.

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besson3c
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Oct 27, 2007, 10:03 PM
 
What a really lame money making ploy on Apple's part. The part that edited the bootloader to allow booting into Windows was obviously working fine, having to pay for Leopard to get Windows drivers (which are absolutely independent of OS X making what version of OS X you are running irrelevant) just stinks.
     
ibook_steve
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Oct 28, 2007, 03:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
What a really lame money making ploy on Apple's part. The part that edited the bootloader to allow booting into Windows was obviously working fine, having to pay for Leopard to get Windows drivers (which are absolutely independent of OS X making what version of OS X you are running irrelevant) just stinks.
Apple always said that BC was a *beta* and that it would be part of Leopard. Beta means trial software. Nowhere did Apple ever say they would give BC away. Many companies have demos of their software available for download with full usage. This is no different from the BC beta. Apple is a business. As such, they have the right to make money off of the code they write.

I don't see anything to complain about here: fair warning and included with Leopard, just as Apple announced.

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brokenjago
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Oct 28, 2007, 01:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Which version of Boot Camp do you have installed? Apple said that versions 1.1 and 1.2 expired...and that the fix was to upgrade to version 1.4. I'm assuming that this means that 1.4 didn't expire. But I haven't had the chance to test that and I'm not where I can right now.
Bootcamp 1.4 Expires either Oct 26th or 31st.
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ghporter
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Oct 28, 2007, 03:22 PM
 
Boot Camp 1.4 does not seem to have expired today... Any source for when it will expire? This page says that Boot Camp v 1.3 & 1.4 expire "when Leopard is available to the public," but that was days ago.

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brokenjago
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Oct 29, 2007, 02:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by brokenjago View Post
Bootcamp 1.4 Expires either Oct 26th or 31st.
.
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ghporter
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Oct 29, 2007, 07:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by brokenjago View Post
Originally Posted by brokenjago View Post
Bootcamp 1.4 Expires either Oct 26th or 31st.
.
We shall see. I did ask where you got the information about the date though. Curiosity and that sort of thing, ya know?

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brokenjago
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Oct 30, 2007, 02:40 PM
 
Oh, right. Well, Apple stated that Bootcamp 1.4 would expire at the end of October when they reminded people of the fact that it expires, because of the release date of Leopard and whatnot.
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MacosNerd
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Oct 30, 2007, 03:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
What a really lame money making ploy on Apple's part.
Why is it lame, they've always said this is a free beta, and it would expire, if you want continued usage you'll need to buy Leopard. They've made no pretense to the contrary and besides, that's why they're in business - to make money.

Personally I don't even use BC, I find that vmware's fusion fits my needs, but that is neither here nor there.
     
besson3c
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Oct 30, 2007, 04:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacosNerd View Post
Why is it lame, they've always said this is a free beta, and it would expire, if you want continued usage you'll need to buy Leopard. They've made no pretense to the contrary and besides, that's why they're in business - to make money.

Personally I don't even use BC, I find that vmware's fusion fits my needs, but that is neither here nor there.

It is well within their right, I don't fault Apple for looking after their business interests... I'm just saying that from a technical aspect it is lame for them to trick people into thinking that they (technically speaking) need a whole new MacOS to install Windows drivers.

The lameness about this is purely technical, not lame in terms of policy.
     
besson3c
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Oct 30, 2007, 04:11 PM
 
BTW, you guys should check out VirtualBox... It seems just as capable as VMWare Fusion to me if you can live without the Unity feature. Plus, it's free.

Maybe VMWare will eventually release the VMWare Player for the Mac.
     
ghporter
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Oct 30, 2007, 08:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by brokenjago View Post
Oh, right. Well, Apple stated that Bootcamp 1.4 would expire at the end of October when they reminded people of the fact that it expires, because of the release date of Leopard and whatnot.
Cool. I hadn't seen that myself.

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brokenjago
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Nov 1, 2007, 08:53 PM
 
So, can anyone confirm 1.4 beta stopped working today? I don't currently have access to my mac
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ghporter
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Nov 1, 2007, 09:04 PM
 
I just checked mine, and it seems to be working. I just tried the "burn drivers to disc" option, but that worked fine-except I didn't' burn yet another disc.

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brokenjago
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Nov 2, 2007, 03:45 PM
 
weird.
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ghporter
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Nov 2, 2007, 07:33 PM
 
I just checked it again-this time I used "save Mac drivers to a folder" and it worked just fine. Weird, maybe. But it still moves!

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
brokenjago
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Nov 3, 2007, 04:22 PM
 
Perhaps it was just a scare tactic on Apple's part to get boot camp-reliant mac users to upgrade to Leopard.
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Spoffo
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Nov 14, 2007, 05:54 AM
 
I just installed Boot Camp 1.2 for the first time today on my MacBook Pro. (I've been running Parallels, but it can't handle the USB connection to a particular GPS of mine, so I wanted to see if Boot Camp was the work-around.) The date problem only effects Boot Camp assistant and appears to be the very simple kind that just checks the system date at startup. There's no sign the actual Boot Camp drivers are date sensitive. in fact, I sorta doubt it's technically possible for them to be.

Yes, when I first tried ot launch Assistant, it reported it was outof date and quit. But, I just set my date to manual and rolled it back a few months. That was enough for BC Assistant to happily open up and do its two jobs: Burning the drivers CD and partitioning. Then I quit Assistant, reset to the correct date (just to avoid any weirdness down the line) put my Windows install disk in and booted from that. From there on, everything was smooth as could be.

And yes, having the direct USB connection from Windows without Parallels in the way was a fix.
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ghporter
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Nov 14, 2007, 09:30 AM
 
Well here we are in mid-November, and BC 1.4 still works for me. I guess it didn't expire after all. To be specific, I CAN run Boot Camp Assistant and make it burn a driver disc or save the drivers to a selected folder. No complaints at all.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
PaperNotes
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Nov 14, 2007, 03:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Well here we are in mid-November, and BC 1.4 still works for me. I guess it didn't expire after all..
Apple didn't say it would stop working. Their license said the beta's license and support ends when Leopard is released or Oct 31st. Purchase of Leopard extends the license and support.
     
mduell
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Nov 14, 2007, 08:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by PaperNotes View Post
Apple didn't say it would stop working. Their license said the beta's license and support ends when Leopard is released or Oct 31st.
So I guess talking about BootCamp for Tiger (including ways to get it) is now forbidden on MacNN forums since it violates the license terms?
     
ghporter
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Nov 14, 2007, 10:07 PM
 
Actually Apple said that licenses for versions 1.2 and earlier would expire in September of 2007, and that the license for versions 1.3 and 1.4 expire "when Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard is available to the public." Some people have taken that to mean that Boot Camp beta, regardless of version, will self-destruct, turn into a pumpkin, or do something else that would render it useless at some as yet unspecified hour. Others have said that they were concerned that their Boot Camp-created partitions would stop working due to this "expiration." Apple's instructions for what to do once Leopard is available is to "upgrade to Leopard." Which I will do sometime soon. They say nothing about whether one is allowed to use the Windows partition created by Boot Camp, just that "the license to use Boot Camp Beta expires." That's a pretty gray area, don't you think?

Apple says nothing about "remove every trace of the beta from your system after this date or else." And since I don't have much time to fiddle with Windows right now, I'm not "using" the beta at all anyway. So aside from checking that it still works (and hasn't turned into a pumpkin), I'm kind of ignoring both the Boot Camp Assistant and my Windows partition. I can't see how discussing it can violate the license terms, since there's nothing available from Apple for how to properly remove the beta software (which can apparently be problematic).

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mduell
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Nov 14, 2007, 11:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Actually Apple said that licenses for versions 1.2 and earlier would expire in September of 2007, and that the license for versions 1.3 and 1.4 expire "when Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard is available to the public." Some people have taken that to mean that Boot Camp beta, regardless of version, will self-destruct, turn into a pumpkin, or do something else that would render it useless at some as yet unspecified hour. Others have said that they were concerned that their Boot Camp-created partitions would stop working due to this "expiration."
It appears you're trying to cloud the issue with unfounded FUD.

Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
They say nothing about whether one is allowed to use the Windows partition created by Boot Camp, just that "the license to use Boot Camp Beta expires." That's a pretty gray area, don't you think?
Clear as glass to me. The BootCamp software you've licensed from Apple does two things: repartition your hard drive and burn a drivers CD. Now that your license has expired, you shouldn't use the BootCamp software. Ongoing use of a Windows installation has nothing to do with the BootCamp software.

Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Apple says nothing about "remove every trace of the beta from your system after this date or else." And since I don't have much time to fiddle with Windows right now, I'm not "using" the beta at all anyway. So aside from checking that it still works (and hasn't turned into a pumpkin), I'm kind of ignoring both the Boot Camp Assistant and my Windows partition. I can't see how discussing it can violate the license terms, since there's nothing available from Apple for how to properly remove the beta software (which can apparently be problematic).
They don't have to. It's no different from software that is licensed annually (or by any other time period) instead of in perpetuity. When your license expires, you have to stop using the software. Discussing it doesn't violate the license terms, it violates the forum guidelines. It has been quite clear in the past that users are not to discuss the unlicensed use of software (OSX on x86, Leopard upgrades in multiple machines, moving cracked Adobe software from machine to machine, etc) on these forums; why the 'fuzzyness' now? That Apple does not provide removal directions has no significance.
     
ghporter
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Nov 15, 2007, 01:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
It appears you're trying to cloud the issue with unfounded FUD.
How is quoting the source "clouding the issue?" I thought I was capsulizing the issue and the discussion so far.
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Clear as glass to me. The BootCamp software you've licensed from Apple does two things: repartition your hard drive and burn a drivers CD. Now that your license has expired, you shouldn't use the BootCamp software. Ongoing use of a Windows installation has nothing to do with the BootCamp software.
In retrospect, I see that I should have been more explicit in my statements about this. I agree with you completely on this item-once your drive is partitioned and Windows is installed, you are NOT "using" the Boot Camp software, so you're not violating the icense by having the partition or running Windows.
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
They don't have to. It's no different from software that is licensed annually (or by any other time period) instead of in perpetuity. When your license expires, you have to stop using the software. Discussing it doesn't violate the license terms, it violates the forum guidelines. It has been quite clear in the past that users are not to discuss the unlicensed use of software (OSX on x86, Leopard upgrades in multiple machines, moving cracked Adobe software from machine to machine, etc) on these forums; why the 'fuzzyness' now? That Apple does not provide removal directions has no significance.
My hyperbole was poorly worded. Must have had other things on my mind when I was writing it. With the fuss some people are making about not being able to use the beta of Boot Camp now, I felt that approaching the subject with sarcasm would at least raise a few smiles. I fell on my face with that.

On the other hand, the issue we work hard at preventing, and which you bring up, is how to find and use software without license. I may not have been as straightforward as I should have been in what I was saying throughout this thread-the software itself does not "expire and stop working" in spite of the statements or beliefs of anyone here, and that the expiration of the beta license does not in any way impact one's Windows installation. Yep, I was less than clear about that. Too much sarcasm, not enough short, simple statements. My bad.

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mduell
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Nov 15, 2007, 07:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
How is quoting the source "clouding the issue?" I thought I was capsulizing the issue and the discussion so far.
Quoting from the source wasn't clouding the issue. The following was:
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Some people have taken that to mean that Boot Camp beta, regardless of version, will self-destruct, turn into a pumpkin, or do something else that would render it useless at some as yet unspecified hour. Others have said that they were concerned that their Boot Camp-created partitions would stop working due to this "expiration."
I'm glad that we agree and I just missed your sarcasm. Here's another issue to consider: The Windows drivers for Mac hardware are part of the BootCamp beta software package; has the license to use those drivers now expired? Perhaps even running Windows on a Mac with those drivers is now a license violation.
     
JRoDDz
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Nov 16, 2007, 06:18 PM
 
You don't need bootcamp with Tiger. You can use rEFIt. It's open source.

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ghporter
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Nov 18, 2007, 03:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Quoting from the source wasn't clouding the issue. The following was:
Originally Posted by ghporter
Some people have taken that to mean that Boot Camp beta, regardless of version, will self-destruct, turn into a pumpkin, or do something else that would render it useless at some as yet unspecified hour. Others have said that they were concerned that their Boot Camp-created partitions would stop working due to this "expiration."
I have seen discussions elsewhere where people thought that their Windows partitions themselves would expire. Not here, but some other forum. I used 'poetic license' without authorization there. Sorry.

Originally Posted by mduell View Post
I'm glad that we agree and I just missed your sarcasm. Here's another issue to consider: The Windows drivers for Mac hardware are part of the BootCamp beta software package; has the license to use those drivers now expired? Perhaps even running Windows on a Mac with those drivers is now a license violation.
That's the real point I was thinking of when my sarcasm system shut down. It was part of the "remove every trace" thing-which obviously didn't work as planned. I "think" that the drivers are separate-even though the only "official" source for them is through Boot Camp's menu. I'm going to operate on that assumption until I see otherwise. I just wish Apple hadn't made the student price for Leopard only $13 less than the regular price-why bother calling it a "discount" in that case? For me and a lot of people the upgrade wouldn't be an issue if they'd kept the price at a little more than half of the regular price, like it had been for (I think) all the OS X upgrades in the past.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
   
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