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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > Why isn't anyone so excited about Yosemite?

Why isn't anyone so excited about Yosemite? (Page 2)
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OreoCookie
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Jul 31, 2014, 02:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Well, yeah, but the point is: reading an email in Webmail does NOT delete it from the server. It does NOT "download" the email.
No, I think it's better to think of webmail as another e-mail client. For instance, POP servers have no notion of different folders (e. g. Inbox, spam, sent, drafts), so the folders you see don't map to folders you can access. That's one of the reasons why I hate using webmail services: all the e-mails I send from the web interface »disappear« from my e-mail workflow as they are not added to the sent messages folders of my e-mail clients.

The same is true if you send e-mail messages of POP accounts with different e-mail clients and/or different devices: they don't sync. With IMAP or Exchange mail servers, this is fixed.
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turtle777
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Jul 31, 2014, 02:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Well, yeah, but the point is: reading an email in Webmail does NOT delete it from the server. It does NOT "download" the email.
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
No, I think it's better to think of webmail as another e-mail client.
Are you on purpose completely ignoring my point about READING EMAILS IN WEBMAIL DOESN'T DELETE THEM FROM THE SERVER ?

Your "No" is just factually wrong in response to what I said.

In addition, there's a REASON that I didn't mention deleting emails or writing emails, because you are right, Webmail with POP will perform differently than Webmail with IMAP.

I never said that Webmail equals IMAP or POP in ALL asepcts.

-t
     
OreoCookie
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Jul 31, 2014, 02:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Are you on purpose completely ignoring my point about READING EMAILS IN WEBMAIL DOESN'T DELETE THEM FROM THE SERVER ?

Your "No" is just factually wrong in response to what I said.
But they won't be marked as read (or flagged) when you download them somewhere else, because POP doesn't know about these things. Webmail acts like just another POP e-mail client with the setting to never delete e-mails. Nor does reading an e-mail on your machine mark a mail message in your web client as read.

IMAP is a folder-based protocol, it is designed to sync folders with pieces of mail or other folders in them. It also syncs the status of mails and such. So no, Webmail for POP-based services does not work like an IMAP client, because otherwise all folders and the status of your messages would be synced across machines. The fact that messages are not deleted when they are downloaded is just a side-effect of how it works.

As I said, Webmail is just another e-mail client, if the service is using POP, then you have your own silo-ed folder structure which is not synced across clients and machines. If your service uses IMAP, then the webmail client typically just accesses the IMAP folder structure. E. g. when you create a folder in your webclient, you create the folder on the IMAP server. Of course, you could have a webclient that in addition uses its own folder structure, but since that doesn't make much sense I haven't heard of a service that uses it.
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And.reg
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Jul 31, 2014, 02:40 PM
 
This so needs its own IMAP vs. POP thread
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jul 31, 2014, 03:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Interesting. Do you have a link which shows how to set that up? (I was always under the impression that GMX only allows IMAP access for paying customers.)
Yes, that's what they write on their website. I've been using it in IMAP mode using imap.gmx.net for years now, and set it up on a number of clients' machines, and never had an issue with it not working.

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Spheric Harlot
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Jul 31, 2014, 03:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by badidea View Post
Really, I think I have to check that again! I was sure that one of the reasons I didn't bother with IMAP was that it wasn't supported for my accounts anyway!


I think you misunderstood me - what I meant was that Fotostream claims that you can delete a photo from the stream on one device for example and it will be deleted from the stream on every other device (just like IMAP emails) but that never worked!
Yes it does — it's not deleted from the LIBRARY, but it is deleted from the PhotoStream. These are entirely separate things, and the confusion is one reason why Apple is doing away with them and completely rewriting their photo management software — then, it WILL be "like IMAP", in that your entire library will be stored on their servers, but with a local copy on your Mac, and access to everything on your iOS devices.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jul 31, 2014, 03:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
This so needs its own IMAP vs. POP thread
No, it doesn't. POP vs. IMAP is perfectly clear.

What's being discussed is how webmail fits into the two models.

My answer: Who cares?
     
OreoCookie
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Jul 31, 2014, 03:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Yes, that's what they write on their website. I've been using it in IMAP mode using imap.gmx.net for years now, and set it up on a number of clients' machines, and never had an issue with it not working.

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Great, thanks!
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turtle777
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Jul 31, 2014, 04:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
But they won't be marked as read (or flagged) when you download them somewhere else, because POP doesn't know about these things. Webmail acts like just another POP e-mail client with the setting to never delete e-mails..
What happens if you delete something in webmail ?
Isn't it deleted on the server too ?

At any rate, it's probably fair to say that Webmail behaves differently, all depending on what you're doing. In some cases, resemble POP - never delete (fore reading), and in other, it acts more like IMAP (i.e. delete = delet on server also), and in writing emails, it behaves like a standalone POP client.

-t
     
OreoCookie
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Jul 31, 2014, 04:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
What happens if you delete something in webmail ?
Isn't it deleted on the server too ?
That depends on where the e-mail is stored: if you delete an e-mail from your sent or drafts folder, nothing happens on the server, because the e-mail was never on POP server to begin with. If the piece of mail is in a folder that is not your inbox, sent or drafts (e. g. a folder for mail you have created yourself), the piece of mail has already been deleted from the server (it was deleted the moment you moved it from the inbox to the other folder). So also here nothing happens. Only if you directly delete mails from your inbox do you delete mails from the server in that instance.

With an IMAP- or Exchange-based webmailer that is different: all folders will be synchronized with the server, even if mails are moved, written and sent or so.
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
At any rate, it's probably fair to say that Webmail behaves differently, all depending on what you're doing. In some cases, resemble POP - never delete (fore reading), and in other, it acts more like IMAP (i.e. delete = delet on server also), and in writing emails, it behaves like a standalone POP client.
Do you want to know how it works or do you want to hear from me that »webmail works like IMAP«?

Anyway, good free mail services all use IMAP anyway and POP is being phased out. Google uses its own scheme which doesn't fit into IMAP's scheme correctly, but it behaves like IMAP in the sense that you sync folders and mails as opposed to downloading them and deleting them from the server. And the webclients of these services are aware of this, of course.
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cgc
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Jul 31, 2014, 06:31 PM
 
10.10 is nice but nothing fantastic...wish they'd really work to iron out all the bugs or add support for more (off the shelf) GPUs before they spring new features on us.
"Like a midget at a urinal, I was going to have to stay on my toes." Frank Drebin, Naked Gun 33 1/3: The Final Insult
     
And.reg
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Jul 31, 2014, 09:31 PM
 
Back in 10.9 I had this persistent long shut-down problem (often it took 20-25 seconds to shut down my Macbook Air, and the delay did not go away even when I re-installed the OS from fresh).

Fortunately, since using 10.10, most of my shut downs are within 2-4 seconds, and the longest has been 8.5 seconds, so, Yosemite has improved in this area by quite a lot.
     
badidea
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Aug 1, 2014, 09:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Yes it does — it's not deleted from the LIBRARY, but it is deleted from the PhotoStream.
Not from my Photostream! Never has! Only from the "stream" on the device I'm deleting it from!
For example:
- I take a picture with the iPhone
- It will be saved to the stream AND to the library
- I delete it from the stream AND the library because the picture was crap
- I come home days later and the picture will still be synced to the stream on my MBP even though it has been deleted days ago!

Never found a solution to that stupid behavior and therefor deactivated Photostream because that's just too annoying!
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badidea
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Aug 1, 2014, 09:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Yes, that's what they write on their website. I've been using it in IMAP mode using imap.gmx.net for years now, and set it up on a number of clients' machines, and never had an issue with it not working.

Liste mit POP3- und SMTP-Servern
Thanks!
But now I also think we would need an IMPA thread, because how do you actually set this up (in Yosemite)??
The mail settings do not allow me to change the server type - even setting up a new account doesn't give me any choice! It's automatic!

Edit: googled it - had to set up an account with a wrong pw ...and then I could set it up manually! It's working!

Edit2: Ouch, now all my Emails are gone ...except the ones which were still on the server! DAMN!
( Last edited by badidea; Aug 1, 2014 at 10:30 AM. )
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Spheric Harlot
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Aug 1, 2014, 08:53 PM
 
Don't delete the old account. Just uncheck the option to include it when checking for new mail.

Once the new IMAP account has been verified to work, copy over all the old mail, THEN deactivate the account (you don't even need to delete it, though of course the mail will still be eating up space until you do).
     
msuper69
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Aug 2, 2014, 06:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by PeterParker View Post
Hey,

where's the 10.10 excitement? Just asking... Isn't this amazingly big news? Just wondering... What's the best feature? The interface is hilarious - is it? Where is all the noise?

Greetings,
Pete
Well, it is the 11th iteration.
     
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Aug 2, 2014, 09:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by msuper69 View Post
Well, it is the 11th iteration.
Of both the OS and Peter's post-and-run tactics...
     
 
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