[ironknee]

why and what type?

[Chongo]

It can take over ten minutes for the Police to respond to a 911 call, longer if you are in an unincorporated area of the county.

Beretta 92FS with 3 clips, plus some four legged warning systems

[kimosABE]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

why and what type?

Hi-Point 9 mm semi-auto pistol and a Marlin .22 Cal rifle. For self defense/home protection and small game hunting. And not a small point, I believe in our right to bear arms.

[subego]

I used to have a Browning A-Bolt a loooong time ago for plinking.

Unfortunately, legal weapons are frowned upon by law in Chicago, so I'd have to go a good 10 miles to find a range. IOW, enough of a pain in the ass I haven't bothered. I did however pay the required fee to the State Police for the privilege to exercise my constitutional right.

I wouldn't mind a shotgun for the most dire of emergencies, or a 1911 just to goof around at the range (my hands are too stubby to fit comfortably around a double-stacked magazine). I'm pretty sure the 1911 would be 100% illegal. At least, it's been that way most of my life. I know the city is trying to rewrite things to stay that way after the SCOTUS declared it unconstitutional.

Luckily, I live in a place where it's unnecessary to walk around armed. There's 24-hour donuts down the street.

I do have a WWII Sterling which was converted into a prop.

I also have a fair selection of melee weapons, so no one get any bright ideas.

[OldManMac]

Kahr CM9, pocket 9MM
Ruger LCP, pocket .380
Ruger MKIII .22, plinking and cheap to shoot
Ruger LCR, .38 Special, 5 shot small revolver
Taurus Millenium Pro, .45 not too difficult to conceal
Springfield Armory XD 40, .40, with a laser, for home defense
Ruger 10/22, .22 rifle for plinking
Winchester .177 single shot pellet rifle, for plinking
Umarex Storm, .177 BB gun, which can be set for six-shot bursts, or single shot
Walther .177 BB pistol

All acquired since August 2009.

[SSharon]

ironkee: do you mind if I add to your OP and ask people whether they live alone or with a spouse and whether the spouse needed convincing?

I got a gun license a few months ago and I'd like to buy something, but keeping it at home just isn't an option. Since I only want to shoot for recreation and not defense that doesn't bother me, but I've never heard of a range with storage facilities.

[BadKosh]

Springfield Armory XD45 for home defense.
Wrist Rocket and a coffee can full of bolts for fun.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Glock 19 (9 mm)

Glock 30 SF (.45)

Ruger GP-100 6" (.357)

S&W AR-15

Mossberg 12 gauge

For going to the range (I actually enjoy shooting, it's very relaxing) and home/personal protection. I carry on weekends and when I go out at night.

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

ironkee: do you mind if I add to your OP and ask people whether they live alone or with a spouse and whether the spouse needed convincing?
I got a gun license a few months ago and I'd like to buy something, but keeping it at home just isn't an option. Since I only want to shoot for recreation and not defense that doesn't bother me, but I've never heard of a range with storage facilities.

sure!

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

ironkee: do you mind if I add to your OP and ask people whether they live alone or with a spouse and whether the spouse needed convincing?
I got a gun license a few months ago and I'd like to buy something, but keeping it at home just isn't an option. Since I only want to shoot for recreation and not defense that doesn't bother me, but I've never heard of a range with storage facilities.

Why is keeping it at home not an option?

There are plenty of inexpensive gun safes you could get that would keep the gun out the reach of children/spouses/etc. when you are not at the range.

[Waragainstsleep]

My guns provide much needed support to Mr. Jack Johnson and Mr. Tom O'Leary. You smelly pirate hookers.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

Why is keeping it at home not an option?
There are plenty of inexpensive gun safes you could get that would keep the gun out the reach of children/spouses/etc. when you are not at the range.

Two reasons keeping a gun in the house isn't an option:
1) I live in a relatively small apartment and there isn't enough room for a safe (large enough to hold a rifle).
2) My wife doesn't want it and it isn't so important to me (yet?) to argue about it.

To be honest I think that gun ownership is a big deal and psychologically I haven't yet made the mental leap. Ideally I would go at this gradually and take some safety classes, etc. before buying anything and before storing it at home.

[Shaddim]

I own guns. Why? I enjoy shooting them.

[finboy]

My wife got me a 92FS for my birthday a couple of weeks ago. Complete surprise. There was an ulterior motive, however - she wanted to shoot it. My Taurus PT92 is alloy, so it's bulkier and lighter.

The whole "no gun in my house" thing makes sense from a certain perspective. If someone isn't comfortable with guns then they certainly should have none around. I've seen it be a relationship-breaker though.

[subego]

I'm jealous of your wife's monster hands.

My ex had a no gun deal. She grew up with guns in the house and the end result was getting one pointed at the side of her head by her psycho father. Her sister also tried to shoot him when he was beating their mom, but it jammed.

I had actually convinced her it might be healthy to confront this by going to the range and developing a relationship with guns on her own terms, but things were already on the fizzle by then.

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by subego 

I'm jealous of your wife's monster hands.
My ex had a no gun deal. She grew up with guns in the house and the end result was getting one pointed at the side of her head by her psycho father. Her sister also tried to shoot him when he was beating their mom, but it jammed.
I had actually convinced her it might be healthy to confront this by going to the range and developing a relationship with guns on her own terms, but things were already on the fizzle by then.

wow sorry to hear that sub

is she doing ok? if u know

[subego]

Oh yeah. She's fine.

This was all when she was a tyke. Her dad is long gone.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by subego 

I'm jealous of your wife's monster hands.
My ex had a no gun deal. She grew up with guns in the house and the end result was getting one pointed at the side of her head by her psycho father. Her sister also tried to shoot him when he was beating their mom, but it jammed.
I had actually convinced her it might be healthy to confront this by going to the range and developing a relationship with guns on her own terms, but things were already on the fizzle by then.

I think just about every long-term friendship or relationship with a woman I've had has eventually come around to "Will you teach me about guns?" Even the crunchy granola types wanted to know how to protect themselves.

On the other hand, I have a friend at work, another professor, who's wife "wanted" a pistol for when she's home alone after dark. They looked for over a year, firing different things at the range, and she finally picked one up about 6 months ago. He told me yesterday that she has yet to shoot it at the range, but said that "she knew how to shoot it if she had to." I sternly warned him that a gun without practice is too dangerous to leave as an option for her. Instead of pushing the issue, he should teach her 42 different ways of rapid egress because if a bad guy comes in, that's her defense at this point. I suggested a good youth baseball bat for last resort delaying action.

Guns are a huge investment, and responsibility, and they create a lot of risk for those of us who have and keep them. But private guns have tremendous social benefits as well as costs. That's one reason it pisses me off when people start talking about "gun violence" when they don't understand "gun violence."

[Shaddim]

That's pretty accurate. Even in this house, everyone knows how to handle and use firearms, and my SOs lean much further to the Left than me. Of course, Emma will learn at some point, though we all have a different opinion about when that should happen. As it is now, all guns are kept locked away and will remain well out of her reach.

[ironknee]

just a question

if someone is breaking into your house, how easy is it to unlock the guns and use them?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

just a question
if someone is breaking into your house, how easy is it to unlock the guns and use them?

Takes a couple seconds. I have lock boxes mounted in different places in the house, and one next to my side of the bed. They open via touch combination.

Rifles like the M4A1 are in the vault, as are my other sport guns.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

just a question
if someone is breaking into your house, how easy is it to unlock the guns and use them?

I keep one out at all times.

[Wiskedjak]

I can't imagine living in a place that has me so fearful for my safety that I would feel the need to have guns so readily accessible throughout my house. It's unfortunate that you live somewhere so dangerous.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I can't imagine living in a place that has me so fearful for my safety that I would feel the need to have guns so readily accessible throughout my house. It's unfortunate that you live somewhere so dangerous.

That bait didn't work in 2005 either.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I can't imagine living in a place that has me so fearful for my safety that I would feel the need to have guns so readily accessible throughout my house. It's unfortunate that you live somewhere so dangerous.

If you can afford it, do it safely, and it doesn't get in the way then why not? Many people have flashlights all over the house in case the power goes out.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

If you can afford it, do it safely, and it doesn't get in the way then why not? Many people have flashlights all over the house in case the power goes out.

I'm not faulting it. I'm just surprised that one would choose to live in a place that is so dangerous that they must go to such lengths.

[BadKosh]

Violent people are everywhere. They exist in rural areas, your suburban development and in the basement apartment in your building. I live north west of DC, in Sterling, VA. We have a problem with illegals /day laborers and the drunk driving, gang related violence. 3 blocks over from where I live, 3 illegals broke into a vacant house, ordered Pizza, and killed the delivery guy, ate pizza and then left. Several break ins have occurred too. I don't plan to let someone who breaks into my house live. 2-3 45's to the head and torso should slow them down. I have no issues with killing an intruder.

[Wiskedjak]

Of course. The possibility obviously exists where I live as well. I'm just saying that I'm not aware of any violent crime like that ever happening where I live, and therefore I have very little fear of a home invasion; locking the doors at night is enough to alleviate any fears I may have. It's unfortunate that people live in other places where their fear is so strong that locking the doors obviously isn't enough.

[BadKosh]

Its not so much out of 'fear' but just being prepared "IN CASE" .

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Its not so much out of 'fear' but just being prepared "IN CASE" .

This makes no sense. When you delve down a couple of levels to find the root motivation, it is absolutely fear. If you are afraid (!) that will make you look less manly to admit it, then you can justify it as fear for your family, property or pets. Fear for your pet might also look less manly, especially if its a chihuahua in a tutu.

It would be so refreshing if just one of you would man up and admit the truth.

You like guns for the following reasons:

5% Defence "Just in case";
20% Its a toy you like to play with;
75% Its a penis extension;

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I can't imagine...

Nope, you can't.

Have you considered the idea that other people where you live might have guns and therefore you're less likely to have to deal with the risk of a home invasion? When you meet those folks you should say "thank you."

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

This makes no sense. When you delve down a couple of levels to find the root motivation, it is absolutely fear.

It would be so refreshing if just one of you would man up and admit the truth.

You like guns for the following reasons:
5% Defence "Just in case";
20% Its a toy you like to play with;
75% Its a penis extension;

I'll admit that I like shooting. Just like I like driving for driving's sake, drinking for drinking's sake, smoking for smoking's sake, etc. Those are dangerous too. And all have extensive social benefits and costs that can exceed individual benefits and costs at times.

If you think I have a loaded gun in my house for the "Rambo factor," you're nuts.

I did my part. How many on the other side can admit that they don't like guns because 1) they've been told they're evil, 2) they don't know anything about them, 3) there's some large, irrational fear that they can't name, or 4) they don't trust their own judgement enough to be around anything that dangerous? Those suggestions are no less insulting than what's been proposed for gun owner motivations.

[subego]

First off, I'm tired of you furiners with long "W" names double-teaming threads. It's way too much to ask me to keep straight. I almost ****ed it up again.

That said, even though I'm pretty pro-gun, it is sad that people live in places where they feel being armed is a requirement.

OTOH, I'd say being in that situation probably has way less to do with the availability of guns (though that obviously has some relevance) and much more to do with the gang structure which has developed around selling drugs, and the shitloads of money at stake.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

This makes no sense. When you delve down a couple of levels to find the root motivation, it is absolutely fear. If you are afraid (!) that will make you look less manly to admit it, then you can justify it as fear for your family, property or pets. Fear for your pet might also look less manly, especially if its a chihuahua in a tutu.
It would be so refreshing if just one of you would man up and admit the truth.
You like guns for the following reasons:
5% Defence "Just in case";
20% Its a toy you like to play with;
75% Its a penis extension;

Sorry, you ARE NOT A MIND READER or anything else.

Your stupid assumptions are a laugh. Get a life and don't assume you are smart, intelligent or insightful.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

First off, I'm tired of you furiners with long "W" names double-teaming threads. It's way too much to ask me to keep straight. I almost ****ed it up again.

AT least their sigs make them easy to tell apar– oh wait

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

This makes no sense. When you delve down a couple of levels to find the root motivation, it is absolutely fear. If you are afraid (!) that will make you look less manly to admit it, then you can justify it as fear for your family, property or pets. Fear for your pet might also look less manly, especially if its a chihuahua in a tutu.
It would be so refreshing if just one of you would man up and admit the truth.
You like guns for the following reasons:
5% Defence "Just in case";
20% Its a toy you like to play with;
75% Its a penis extension;

There you go; can't conceive of anything that you don't agree with, so you call it a penis extension. It's good to see that you have the definitive answers.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I'm not faulting it. I'm just surprised that one would choose to live in a place that is so dangerous that they must go to such lengths.

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Its not so much out of 'fear' but just being prepared "IN CASE" .

That's the thing. I don't think most gun owners are living in fear or in particularly dangerous areas, they just like to be prepared. Some people keep extra flashlights, some keep extra fuel, some keep a month's worth of food, and some keep guns. The people that do this aren't all living in areas with frequent power outages, fuel shortages, drought, or crime.

[subego]

When you justify the need to have one based on violence in your neighborhood from day laborers and gangs...

You might be in fear.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by subego 

When you justify the need to have one based on violence in your neighborhood from day laborers and gangs...
You might be in fear.

Or not.

When I moved in this was not a problem. The local county Gov't ALLOWED things to fester (Fairfax, VA) until the local residents started taking video of the faces of the illegals, who would all run away from the 7-11 (Herndon, VA) they were hanging around.

It's not like the FedGov will deport Owe-bamas future voters.

[subego]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Or not.
When I moved in this was not a problem. The local county Gov't ALLOWED things to fester (Fairfax, VA) until the local residents started taking video of the faces of the illegals, who would all run away from the 7-11 (Herndon, VA) they were hanging around.
It's not like the FedGov will deport Owe-bamas future voters.

I don't see how the fact your neighborhood has changed alters your citation of those reasons.

[Waragainstsleep]

Well it may have been blatantly incendiary but it got the conversation going a bit. Those who disagree with my last post, be honest: The reasons are accurate even if you don't agree with the percentages.

To clarify some more, I'm not really as anti-gun as you might think. I would trust myself to keep and sometimes use guns safely and responsibly, its just that I wouldn't trust everyone (who can afford them) to do the same. There are people in my country who shouldn't be allowed to drive, but they are allowed and in fact road planners legislate for them by reducing speed limits and generally making life more difficult for the rest of us. I'm sure the same is true over there.

I've said it before, I don't think a blanket ban on gun ownership would work in the US because there are too many guns in the wild already.

I also don't have any problem with people who have been vetted to some extent owning hunting rifles or shotguns because some people need them. I'd love to think that everyone could be trusted to own handguns and machine guns but they really can't. I think it would be perfectly sensible and fun if there were facilities over here where you could own whatever you wanted but it had to stay at a secured, licensed premises where you could visit and shoot it before locking it back up again and going home without it.

What I object to is really more a matter of attitude. Some of you are just alarmingly fond of guns.

The arguments are pretty weak too. "We might need to overthrow the government." The rest of the developed world doesn't seem to feel this need.
"Its part of our culture." If we were talking about master crafted weapons, made by smiths with decades of experience and embellished further by master craftsmen then this might wash. For the most part we are talking about mass-produced devices that take little skill to use with great effect. Its hard to see much culture in that. On the other hand, other places don't seem to love guns quite the way you do, but you don't let native americans go round scalping you for cultural reasons so maybe you shouldn't be so proud of that particular aspect of your 'culture' and see if you can't start to change it.

[BadKosh]

Those in the UK have been more brainwashed by the leftist propaganda, which is why you can't see/understand our points.

Leftist don't want anyone to have guns that might cause the politicians some 'harm' if they screw the populace.

Our cultures aren't THAT identical.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

"We might need to overthrow the government." The rest of the developed world doesn't seem to feel this need.

I'm not sure you'd have the same opinion if you didn't have NATO to stop you from ripping yourselves a new asshole every 30 years.

[Waragainstsleep]

I'm pretty sure that you have more idiots and lunatics than we do. Thats the only part that concerns me.

[Shaddim]

Retards from the UK are always bitching about us owning guns. Hey, morons, your government is this close " ---| |---" to regulating your cricket bats and kitchen cutlery. "Wot, ya play cricket in yer home?" "Why da ya need a meat cleaver? Ya shouldn't be eatin' meat anyhow."

You might want to get your own shit sorted out before grousing at those of us across the pond. From the looks of it, you're running out of time.

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

I'm pretty sure that you have more idiots and lunatics than we do. Thats the only part that concerns me.

and now you've proven you can't even count, that's great.

[hyteckit]

My favorite is the Nintendo Zapper.

Great for shooting ducks.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

Well it may have been blatantly incendiary but it got the conversation going a bit. Those who disagree with my last post, be honest: The reasons are accurate even if you don't agree with the percentages.
To clarify some more, I'm not really as anti-gun as you might think. I would trust myself to keep and sometimes use guns safely and responsibly, its just that I wouldn't trust everyone (who can afford them) to do the same.

Therein lies a huge part of the problem. You deem yourself superior, and dismiss anyone else who may own a weapon as untrustworthy. That's pretty smug, and show how little you know about the facts of gun ownership, versus the emotions you use to justify your position.

Let's deal with some of those facts. There are approximately 80 million Americans who own guns, and they own about 300 million of them. Forty years ago, only a handful of states allowed citizens to carry a weapon, and then it was usually only based on a need to carry. In the last few decades, all states, save Indiana, have revised their codes and now allow citizens to carry, many being able to obtain a concealed pistol license based on want, not on a need to carry. In the last few decades, gun sales have literally exploded. Despite this, violent crime, including homicide, has continually declined, and last year, for the first time in four decades, homicide was removed from the top 15 list as a contributor to death. The reality is that one is safer today than in decades, despite the enormous increase in private weapon ownership. These are facts, tracked by the FBI. (In fact, the world is a safer place today, despite the sensational headlines we all like to talk about at the water cooler, but that's another issue, for another time).

If your lack of trust of others were a real issue, America would indeed be a Wild West, and crime, including homicide, would have grown along with the rate and number of gun sales. As more people own guns, according to your "logic," more people get killed, yet the reverse is happening. What causes people to go apoplectic over guns is that they make decisions based on emotions (as you did), and not on reality. They read a news article about some nut job killing a number of people, and all of a sudden, rationality goes out the window, and they delude themselves into thinking that this wouldn't happen if no one had access to guns. What they don't want to admit is that there exists among mankind individuals who are disturbed in some manner, and will kill others, whether they have a gun or not. History is replete with stories of mass murderers, many of whom didn't use guns.

The vast majority of gun owners (remember those tens of millions?), are indeed responsible gun owners and obey the law, period. Taking away the rights of the majority, because of the transgressions of a minority, is not the answer, period.

There are people in my country who shouldn't be allowed to drive, but they are allowed and in fact road planners legislate for them by reducing speed limits and generally making life more difficult for the rest of us. I'm sure the same is true over there.

You can't legislate assurance that you're going to survive the day, as I've already pointed out.

I've said it before, I don't think a blanket ban on gun ownership would work in the US because there are too many guns in the wild already.

You're right, but I get the distinct impression you would support trying it.

I also don't have any problem with people who have been vetted to some extent owning hunting rifles or shotguns because some people need them.

Fortunately for the tens of millions of Americans who own pistols, you aren't the arbiter of who gets to own what.

I'd love to think that everyone could be trusted to own handguns and machine guns but they really can't.

There you go, projecting again. The facts state otherwise.

I think it would be perfectly sensible and fun if there were facilities over here where you could own whatever you wanted but it had to stay at a secured, licensed premises where you could visit and shoot it before locking it back up again and going home without it.

Once again, millions of us are thankful you aren't the arbiter of what we can do with our private property, and that's all a gun is; someone's private property, to do with as he/she pleases, in a lawful manner, which includes target shooting, properly carrying, or collecting.

What I object to is really more a matter of attitude. Some of you are just alarmingly fond of guns.

What are you "alarmingly" fond of? Quite frankly, it's none of your business what I'm alarmingly fond of, as long as I don't threaten you.

The arguments are pretty weak too. "We might need to overthrow the government." The rest of the developed world doesn't seem to feel this need.

What the rest of the world feels it may need isn't my concern. A gun is a piece of property that I may use as I see fit, as long as I don't harm anyone with it, and those pesky tens of millions of us who own hundreds of millions of guns, without harming anyone, agree.

"Its part of our culture." If we were talking about master crafted weapons, made by smiths with decades of experience and embellished further by master craftsmen then this might wash. For the most part we are talking about mass-produced devices that take little skill to use with great effect. Its hard to see much culture in that.

You obviously don't seem to know much about gun manufacture and safety, which could be another reason that, despite your protestations to the contrary, you appear very anti-gun. Just because something is mass produced doesn't make it a non quality item. Again, we don't need your justifications for reasons we own guns, and we think it "washes" just fine. As to the allegation that it takes little skill to use with great effect, that doesn't wash either. If you've ever shot a gun, it takes more than a little practice to hit a target skillfully, even at close range. One doesn't just point a gun willy-nilly, and become an expert marksman, and that's definitely irresponsible in any event.

On the other hand, other places don't seem to love guns quite the way you do,

Mankind has had a fascination with weaponry since day one; it has nothing to do with what place it is. The arms business is a worldwide business, and most places where citizens can't own private weapons are places that most of us wouldn't like to live in anyway. It should be an individual choice, not one made by a select few.

but you don't let native americans go round scalping you for cultural reasons so maybe you shouldn't be so proud of that particular aspect of your 'culture' and see if you can't start to change it.

Totally illogical argument; one doesn't follow another.

[Cold Warrior]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Sorry, you ARE NOT A MIND READER or anything else.
Your stupid assumptions are a laugh. Get a life and don't assume you are smart, intelligent or insightful.

This is why we have Rule 9.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by finboy 

How many on the other side can admit that they don't like guns because 1) they've been told they're evil, 2) they don't know anything about them, 3) there's some large, irrational fear that they can't name, or 4) they don't trust their own judgement enough to be around anything that dangerous? Those suggestions are no less insulting than what's been proposed for gun owner motivations.

This is really the meat-and-potatoes of the argument here, and I think you brought up some very good points. I'm not pro-gun by any means, but when in any argument about guns I tend to slide to that stance just to hear exactly what it is the anti-gun crowd has to say about them.

The biggest problem is number one. They've been told all their life, most likely by a family member, that guns are evil, pointless and those who own them are not to be trusted. The second most common thread is your fourth point, they themselves are so terrified of using or being around anything dangerous they can not perceive of a person who would be able to use such a device carefully and without risk to anyone else. I make my living being in situations, and using tools, that are by nature very dangerous. However, for over 16 years, I have not injured myself while on the job. I'm not very comfortable with the ease of purchasing assault weapons and the like, but I will not go as far as to say no-one should be allowed to ever own them. I think a person of sound judgement and intent should be allowed a great deal of trust in a 'free' society, but obviously there are those who don't really trust anyone with anything more menacing than a butter knife.

For the record, I have a .20 cal air pellet rifle at my Dad's house, and just recently I went to a gun range for the first time and fired a 9mm, AR15, and a .40 S&W....it was quite enjoyable, but what an expensive hobby!

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

5% Defence "Just in case";
20% Its a toy you like to play with;
75% Its a penis extension;

More like:

20% for Defense
80% for toys to play with
30% as a penis extension