[Maflynn]

I think I'm in the market to buy a new LCD, I say I think because I'm not a 100% sure. I may hold off until Apple release the new powermac replacement.

Anyways I currently have the 20" ACD (the old plastic version), works well, but I'll be selling that with the powermac. I can purchase another 20" ACD, or make the jump and get the 23" HD

Another option is to purchase a samsung or Dell 20" or 24" While I'd like to have the apple and keep my desk dell free, the price and performance seems to be superior then that of Apple's.

I also read that some (alot ?) of 23" ACD suffer from some sort of pink hue, anybody experience or here this?

So any suggestions for or against any of these models or a model that I had not mentioned?

Mike

[mduell]

mduell votes for the 2405FPW.
You may want to wait for the next revision (2407FPW) which will support HDCP (you may or may not be able to play HD movies without an HDCP compliant screen in the future).
Or go for the 3007FPW (which supports HDCP) now.

[Maflynn]

Thanks,
The 30" is probably a little out of my price range, especially since I'm saving my pennies for a new power mac (or what ever apple will call the new mactels).

One quick question, that I posted in another thread. How's the display quality when hooked up to the mac. Someone posted a comment that the dell when hooked up to a mac was not as sharp as when it was on a PC. I have the ATI x800xt so that's a pretty high end video card, so I'm hoping I won't incur any such poor display issues.

Mike

[tooki]

There's no difference. Any differences are either misconfiguration, or mistakenly attributing Mac OS X's antialiasing style to the display.

tooki

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Maflynn

The 30" is probably a little out of my price range, especially since I'm saving my pennies for a new power mac (or what ever apple will call the new mactels).

One quick question, that I posted in another thread. How's the display quality when hooked up to the mac. Someone posted a comment that the dell when hooked up to a mac was not as sharp as when it was on a PC. I have the ATI x800xt so that's a pretty high end video card, so I'm hoping I won't incur any such poor display issues.

Unfortunately the 30" doesn't see the discounts that the 20/24" usually see (~20-40% off list). If you do buy the 24", check for coupons on slickdeals.net and similar sites; it's usually $700-950.

As tooki said, that's either a configuration problem (likely feeding it the wrong resolution) or the user isn't used to Apple's anti-aliasing.

[Kyle Dreaden]

I have the 23" ADC (Aluminum) and have not experienced any issues in regards to pinkish hues.

This was my first LCD and I was originally planning on purchasing the 20" ADC. When I was ready to purchase, I was told by an associate of mine at my local Apple Store that they had a 23" ADC that was refreshed for $999. Now, for two hundred more, I went for it. Keep in mind, at the time, the 23" was 1499, so this was a GREAT deal. I'm very pleased with my purchase.

I will concede this, though: I do envy some of the features of the Dell displays i.e. the component in, etc. But I'm such a sucker for Apple's designs and on top of that, I've had fantastic experiences with AppleCare (which I recently purchased OEM for my display).

If I had to do it over again, I still would have gone for the Apple 23" at the same price. Though, if I had to choose between the 23" at full price and the Dell 24" at full price, I would definitely be tempted to go Dell.

Steve Jobs forgive me.

[Eug Wanker]

The Dell 2005 20" and the Dell 2405 24" are both on sale, today only.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

The Dell 2005 20" and the Dell 2405 24" are both on sale, today only.

The great thing about dell is that those sales come around quite often. I just went there and the 20% discount is good until 03/22/06. That will give me time to mull the purchase over.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by mduell

mduell votes for the 2405FPW.
You may want to wait for the next revision (2407FPW) which will support HDCP (you may or may not be able to play HD movies without an HDCP compliant screen in the future).
Or go for the 3007FPW (which supports HDCP) now.

When are these panels supposed to be released? I thought it was supposed to be Feb, no?

I'd probably get a 2007FPW if it had a better contrast ratio. If the 2007FPW continues to have a bad contrast ratio I may just get the 2407FPW which apparently has acceptable (but not top notch) contrast.

BTW, the 2405FPW is rated at 612:1 contrast ratio, whereas something like the Westinghouse 37w1 is rated at 719:1 which is apparently noticeably better. Both have a claimed contrast ratio of 1000:1. The 2005FPW OTOH has a claimed contrast ratio of only 500:1, which probably means it's less than 400:1 measured.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

When are these panels supposed to be released? I thought it was supposed to be Feb, no?

I'd probably get a 2007FPW if it had a better contrast ratio. If the 2007FPW continues to have a bad contrast ratio I may just get the 2407FPW which apparently has acceptable (but not top notch) contrast.

BTW, the 2405FPW is rated at 612:1 contrast ratio, whereas something like the Westinghouse 37w1 is rated at 719:1 which is apparently noticeably better. Both have a claimed contrast ratio of 1000:1. The 2005FPW OTOH has a claimed contrast ratio of only 500:1, which probably means it's less than 400:1 measured.

"Real Soon Now"; the 2007 has appeared in a few places on the Dell site, but not actually for sale yet.

Contrast ratio depends heavily on the lighting conditions in the testing room; in Anandtech's comparison review the Apple and Dell 20" were measured to be in the low 100s.
The numbers on the box are probably true in some ideal lighting environment, and the test results may have been found in different lighting environments.

[Eug Wanker]

The numbers on the box are probably true in some ideal lighting environment, and the test results may have been found in different lighting environments.

Just to be clear, the 612 vs 719 were by the same tester.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by mduell

"Real Soon Now"; the 2007 has appeared in a few places on the Dell site, but not actually for sale yet.

I'll probably hold off on the display until Dell releases the newer models. One thing I'm a little wary of is buying a new display that will be for a new Mactel. If Apple desides to use HDCP some how in its new powermac line. I have no idea if they could or would,i.e., I'm talking out of my butt, however since will be for the new desktop I can wait.

Having two monitors would be a huge aid for me as I work with photoshop and Aperture which is why I was willing to buy one now. (I'd sell my G5 & 20" ACD when the new line is announced).

Mike

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by mduell

"Real Soon Now"; the 2007 has appeared in a few places on the Dell site, but not actually for sale yet.

Contrast ratio depends heavily on the lighting conditions in the testing room; in Anandtech's comparison review the Apple and Dell 20" were measured to be in the low 100s.
The numbers on the box are probably true in some ideal lighting environment, and the test results may have been found in different lighting environments.

In particular if the same display is used by several manufacturers … 
I don't trust these numbers too much. Also, contrast is not everything … 

[F*ckDell]

So everyones agreeing that waiting for Dells release of their LCDs are the way to go?

Dose anyone think Apples new ACDs will be better or at least the same as Dells line? As Mayflynn said, I'm also trying to do away with alllll Dell products...

If you can't tell, I hate Dell...

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by F*ckDell

As Maflynn said, I'm also trying to do away with alllll Dell products...

If you can't tell, I hate Dell...

Well where it makes sense for me. The Dell displays have always been highly regarded and to be honest the price difference is so large, I'm having a hard time justifying the ACD.

As for apple releasing a new version of their displays, I'm less inclined to believe that they will do so. It took them a long time to refresh it last year and with the exception of a built in iSight and maybe support for HDCP I don't see them doing anything.

Mike

[Eug Wanker]

My guess is Apple won't add HDCP support to their Cinema Displays until they add HDCP support to their Power Macs. Perhaps it will be the second half of 2006, which is also when Blu-ray drives will be available (and when Intel 64-bit Woodcrest CPUs or whatever will be available too).

[mduell]

Originally Posted by F*ckDell

So everyones agreeing that waiting for Dells release of their LCDs are the way to go?

Dose anyone think Apples new ACDs will be better or at least the same as Dells line? As Mayflynn said, I'm also trying to do away with alllll Dell products...

If Apple updates their displays (I haven't seen any high-confidence rumors that they will) to get a lower response time or something like that, Dell will still be selling the same or a similarly spec'd panel with more video input options, a media card reader, and a more flexible stand for a lower price.

[Eug Wanker]

20" 2007WFP Docs

Luminance: 300 cd/m
Contrast: 800:1
Response time: 16 ms
Viewing angle: 178 degrees

Ports: 4 x USB 2.0, DVI-D, VGA, S-Video, Composite
USB ports only work when computer is on (or is in powersave mode)

No HDCP support. Basically it sounds like pretty much the same screen that's in the 20" iMac. No info in the 2407WFP yet.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

My guess is Apple won't add HDCP support to their Cinema Displays until they add HDCP support to their Power Macs. Perhaps it will be the second half of 2006, which is also when Blu-ray drives will be available (and when Intel 64-bit Woodcrest CPUs or whatever will be available too).

Exactly, that's why I'm quasi tempted to wait until then. I'm happy with my 20" ACD but the thought of having two display's makes me drool and working on a 24" will make photoshop and aperture all the easier.

Mike

[asxless]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

20" 2007WFP Docs...

Thats interesting.

Dell's main site doesn't even mention that they sell a 2007WFP. But their docs site has info on both the current 2005WFP and a 2007WFP which BTW looks more like the 3007WFP.

Maybe we'll see an announcement soon

-- asxless in iLand

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

My guess is Apple won't add HDCP support to their Cinema Displays until they add HDCP support to their Power Macs. Perhaps it will be the second half of 2006, which is also when Blu-ray drives will be available (and when Intel 64-bit Woodcrest CPUs or whatever will be available too).

Exactly, that's why I'm quasi tempted to wait until then. I'm happy with my 20" ACD but the thought of having two display's makes me drool and working on a 24" will make photoshop and aperture all the easier.

Mike

[Eug Wanker]

Hmmm... This site claims that the 2007WFP and the 2407WFP both support HDCP.



However the 2007WFP docs I posted above say nothing about HDCP. Here's hoping for HDCP...

Actually, one piece of good news is the 24" 2407WFP is much lighter now, at only 11.2 kg, which is about the same weight as the old the 20" 2005FPW. The new 20" 2007WFP has lost weight too, and is now only 9 kg.

[Maflynn]

I'm actually wondering if the HDCP would be beneficial for me (other then watching HD movies). I'm tempted for the 2405 because its on sale for 799 and its 500 dollars cheaper then the Apple display (having superior specs certainly doesn't hurt dell too).

One thing I don't want to do is paint myself into a corner because of desire not to wait. I've never been called impulsive and I drive my wife crazy by mulling these decisions over and over for weeks and months on end. The current "sale" that dell is having will end and I suspect the deep discounts that they are offering will not be so generous for the new monitor - at least not intially.

[Eug Wanker]

My guess is the 2407WFP will have a lower normal price, and the discounted price will be higher, but not too much higher, than the 2405FPW.

Here's a pic of the 2007WFP. At least the aesthetics have improved:




1 Input indicators
2 Input Source Select
3 PIP (Picture In Picture) / PBP (Picture By Picture) Select
4 OSD Menu / Select
5 Down (-)
6 Up (+)
7 Power button (with power light indicator)

[F*ckDell]

If say I had a Dell Display - had a TV Tuner card for my PowerMac (or whatever Apples coming out with), would I be able to get good quality tv viewing on the display? Moving into an apartment, trying to save space you know...

[Maflynn]

From the looks of things, I think I'll be better served in waiting until Dell releases that new display (2407).

Regards
Mike

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by F*ckDell

If say I had a Dell Display - had a TV Tuner card for my PowerMac (or whatever Apples coming out with), would I be able to get good quality tv viewing on the display? Moving into an apartment, trying to save space you know...

I was planning on doing the same thing. I have a 14" CRT TV (with a small cable box) next to my iMac in my home office and was hoping to replace the TV with 2407 or a 2007. However, I expect the picture quality to be worse on the LCD (at least when TV is watched full-screen on the LCD). Even cheap CRTs have a much higher contrast ratio. However, the TV is useless when I'm not watching TV on it. With the LCD, I can have some open browser windows or whatever on it, and have a TV window in the corner, since both these monitors seem to support picture-in-picture.

I suspect the Apple Cinema Displays have better QA, but Dell has a reasonable return policy, and their monitors are much more feature-rich (and much less expensive). Too bad they don't look anywhere near as good as the Apple displays.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

I suspect the Apple Cinema Displays have better QA

Based on what, exactly, other than blind anti-Dell bias? Apple's had serious problems with many of the 23" displays having major color casts, ones so strong as to be plainly visible in junky CompUSA lighting, never mind in in the careful lighting of a color-calibrated environment. There haven't been any similar problems with Dell's 20 or 24" displays.

tooki

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by tooki

Based on what, exactly, other than blind anti-Dell bias? Apple's had serious problems with many of the 23" displays having major color casts, ones so strong as to be plainly visible in junky CompUSA lighting, never mind in in the careful lighting of a color-calibrated environment. There haven't been any similar problems with Dell's 20 or 24" displays.

Not scientific of course, but just from what I've seen on the boards. While the ACDs are not immune by any means, I've seen way more reports of uneven backlighting for the Dells than for the ACDs.



Mind you, this could be due to the fact that way more Dells are sold.

BTW, why do you assume I have a blind anti-Dell monitor bias? Seems like you're overgeneralizing here. I have zero desire to buy an expensive ACD. I will likely buy a Dell 2007WFP or a Dell 2407WFP, and have recommended the previous generation Dells to others as well. The main anti-Dell biases I do have is about aesthetics (ie. Dell's are consistently fugly), and their inability to get CTO purchases right (despite the fact that that's what they've built their sales method around). Several of my colleagues and friends have had Dell screw up their orders, and when Dell screws up, it's almost always in Dell's favour. ie. Celeron instead of a Pentium 4, wrong type of optical drive, missing component, less RAM than ordered, etc.

Anyways, back to monitors... The uneven backlighting reports worry me, but fortunately Dell has a liberal return policy. I've also seen these issues in non-Dell and non-Apple screens, so obviously it happens with others too, but nonetheless, it did seem to me that a fair number of people who got the 2005FPW had this problem.

[F*ckDell]

I agree Eug Wanker, do wish Dells LCDs were as nice as ACD...

On the report of uneven blacklighting, my current laptop has that problem. I have a huge white spot top left of my LCD screen. You can only see it when the screen goes black, or when loading Windows XP screen. Annoying but I plan on buying an LCD sometime soon...

[exca1ibur]

I just got two 2405FPW and no problems at all here. No dead pixels, or uneven backlighting. Personally I could care less about HDCP, not a big enough deal for me to pass on a $799 price.

[mr breaker]

how about watching TV on these Dell LCDs? What is the quality like?

[Zoom]

Just skimming... thought I'd throw out my $0.02.

First, wide-screen monitors actually have less area than the 4:3 monitors at the same diagonal dimension. Example:

4:3 20": 1600x1200 = 192k pixels
16:9 20"" 1680x1050 = 176.4k pixels

So, unless you want the native widescreen for movies or you just happen to prefer a little extra width (80 pixels), you might stick with standard aspect ratio LCD's.

Second, I've got a Viewsonic VP201 and love it. I did a lot of research at the time I bought it (almost 2 years ago) and recall a couple things that made the difference for me: a) better quality and b) good return policy (dead pixel counts, length of time, etc).

So, just some extra things to consider.

[F*ckDell]

Would a HDTV extrenal tv tuner work better with a LCD display? I got a Pinnacle Systems PCTV connected through USB, quality isn't the greatest. I found a HDTV external tv tuner for $150, would it be worth spending the cash?

http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/avcards/7de9/

[Maflynn]

Well I ordered it.
I couldn't pass up the 20% discount. I have little reason or need to want HDCP now or in the future. I further justified the purchase as the newer model will be at its apex price wise and so I'd be paying a premium where as I'm paying a discount now.

I'm trying to save money for a new machine and so price is a factor, which is why I opted for Dell over Apple. While would have loved to get a 23" ACD, the price difference was too severe. $1299 for Apple $783 for the dell it probably didn't hurt any that the Dell specs and warranty were superior to Apple's which was too bad but business is business.

Thanks for all of your input and advice
Mike

[Eug Wanker]

Official Dell 24" 2407WFP specs have been posted on the Japanese Dell site. Translated:

* Substance color: ブッラク & Silver ( Pedestal part
* Picture size: 24 Inch wide
* Effective indicatory territory Side 518.4mm ( 20.4 Inch X Length 324.0mm ( 12.7 Inch)
* LCD Type: TFT/ Active matrix
* Largest resolution: 1920x1200 (WUXGA) Note 1)
* Aspect ratio: 16 10
* Range of vision angle: Left and right +/- 89° Top and bottom +/- 89°
* Maximum brightness: 500 cd/m2
* Indicatory color: Approximately 1,677 Ten thousand color
* Contrast ratio: 1000:1
* Speed of response: 6ms (grey to grey) 16ms (Black To white)
* Horizontal frequency: 30-81kHz
* Vertical frequency: 56-76hz
* Resolution 1680x1050 And 1920x1200 So 60Hz Only
* Input terminal: DVI-D (HDCP) ､ mini- D-sub15- Pin, composite, S Video and component, 9 Media corresponding card reader
* In addition function Picture in picture, picture bi- picture function
* Power source: 100-240V < 50/60Hz >
* Electric power consumption:
･ normality ( Maximum of : 57w (110W)
* External size ( HxWxD : 387.9 - 487mm X 559.7mm X 195mm
* There is a height adjustment and rotary function,
* Weight ( Only monitor Approximately, 8.3kg
* VESA Standard mount: 100mm
* Accessory: DVI Signal cable ､ analog signal cable and power source cable,
USB Cable manual ( For rise stream Manual CD
* Guarantee period: 3 Year
* PC Recycling mark attaching

Note 1) Optimum resolution 1920x1200 ( Maximum of As for indication ､ PC It depends on the signal output of the substance. Please use those where the driver of the video card supports this resolution.

So, pretty much what we expected.

[all2ofme]

I was worried that with the new case designs (which look like their cheaper models and the 30") that they weren't going to rotate, but seems that both the 2007 and the 2407 do. Phew.

Might get a 2407 soonish.

[Eug Wanker]

2407WFP:

[Eug Wanker]

Hmmm... Just how long is it gonna take to get here?!? Not only has the 2407 been made available in Japan, it has already been heavily discounted.

It was apparently 80000円 (US$685) and now it's 95800円 (US$820). (MSRP is 157500円.)

80000円 for the 2407WFP is essentially the same price Canadians were getting from Dell for the 2405FPW just a few days ago. Things are looking good in terms of pricing...

OTOH, the 2007WFP is 59800円, whereas the 2005FPW is only 50000円.

[Maflynn]

I am now a proud owner of a Dell 2405. Surprising but I'm typing on it already. I ordered on 03/21 and I received it today.

I had to calibrate the monitor before it looked right, but now its amazing. The richness of the colors is outstanding.


Thanks everyone, now I'm going to either the 20" ACD on craigslist or my PM and 20" ACD on craigslist. I'm not sure what I'll be doing or what will generate the most cash - selling them seperate or together.

Mike

[Eug Wanker]

Canadians: The 2007FP (non-widescreen) is now on sale for CAD$479. The 2405FPW is on sale again too, this time for CAD$849.

I can't find any reference for HDCP support for the 2007FP though (or for the 2007WFP or 2407WFP). I only see it listed for the 3007WFP.

[mduell]

As a slight side note, the 30" Dell is currently $1499 CAD ($1284 USD) on Dell Canada with the right coupon. Yow!

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by mduell

As a slight side note, the 30" Dell is currently $1499 CAD ($1284 USD) on Dell Canada with the right coupon. Yow!

The deals were one day only. (The 30" Dell deal is now over.)

I was holding out for a deal on the 24" 2407WFP LCD, but ended up buying a W2026C 26" LCD TV (1366x768) instead for CAD$799 (US$685).

[doctorb]

I just purchased the 2007wfp from dell.ca 2 days ago. i couldn't pass up the offer. $649CAN regular price down to $429CAN.

However, after purchasing it, I've been reading a lot of reviews talking about "banding" problems. Apparently, it is a huge issue with all of the 2007 models of the Dell Monitors. There has been suggestion that it is due to the new HDCP.

Here are some links referring to the problem.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/26/2...-on-gradients/
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com...pic.php?t=4203
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...27/Variant.jpg


I was just wondering if there were any mac users here who had similar issues with 2007 dell models.

[mduell]

I've head of the banding issue with the 2007FPW too. It's too bad, the 2005FPW is such a great monitor, but it doesn't support HDCP and someday you're going to need it (sooner rather than later if the MPAA has their way).