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ChasingApple · Jan 8, 2007, 05:54 AM

I am a mac fan and have been here at these forums for years. But today being at CES setting up and getting ready for the show has opened my eyes a bit. The whole industry is moving towards media center, HDTV, and UMPC's. There was A LOT of power in many computers being set up, and the UMPC's were freakin awesome. Most of the new stuff running already there on the floor was running Vista, it was everywhere! It was better then I thought it was going to be. I was very impressed with the computers we will have access to in the months to come, but what about Apple...? Is OS X Leapard going to be enough? Are we only getting a new OS and minor revisions on the current line of Macs? God I hope not.

Apple needs the UM-Mac, touch screen, and the iTV to work and work well. Apple needs new products if it wants to continue in the computer market. I will wait for Macworld for my final judgement but unless Apple has some really slick new hardware to show off I fear they will be left behind this year. I will be working at CES on Wednesday and Thursday so I will have more insight to all the new toys then. We have one huge convention center here in Vegas though! I really really hope Apple has some new gadgets in store for us, if not I know I won't be being a new Mac this year but instead getting me a new UMPC!

Anyway, I will report back later, cheers.

mitchell_pgh · Jan 8, 2007, 06:13 AM

While I see mobile Macs in the future, some of these new gadgets are just that... gadgets. Do I really need my receiver or media box to have a full blown OS? What's next, Vista running on my digital camera, MP3 player and my watch?

I feel the theme of CES this year has been Vista + [insert gadget] = success!

I'm not saying there aren't some cool items that make me wonder... but I feel much of them have "tablet PC" (arguably a failure) written all over them.

I would much rather see more devices that communicate with my computer. More bluetooth enabled devices that can intelligently communicate with my computer (my media hub).

ChasingApple · Jan 8, 2007, 06:26 AM

Then you will be very happy, cause they had those in spades!

Posted on my Palm TX

WOPR · Jan 8, 2007, 06:43 AM

Enjoy your UMPC lol.

OreoCookie · Jan 8, 2007, 06:55 AM

UMPCs sell like spoilt milk, they might be a `cool' idea, but in terms of market acceptance, they are a big disappointment. I wouldn't base my decision on marketing hype. Remember: it's not about theoretical abilities of framework X, but what you actually do with it.

ChasingApple · Jan 8, 2007, 07:14 AM

luckily for me I get to play with them and really test them out. Since I got my Palm TX I have used it more them my laptops. My job benefits from mobility...I just wish apple would assist me there.

ChasingApple · Jan 8, 2007, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by WOPR

Enjoy your UMPC lol.

Contribute or go back to the playground with the other kiddies.

Big Mac · Jan 8, 2007, 08:12 AM

Tell me why I'd want a UMPC over a laptop, please. While you're at it, please tell me why I'd want one that was bloated with Vista, a marginal upgrade to XP at best.

Horsepoo!!! · Jan 8, 2007, 08:20 AM

How many gadgets at CES actually become popular, ChasingApple?

msuper69 · Jan 8, 2007, 08:54 AM

I'm damn sure I won't get Vista anytime soon.

I don't buy the MS kool-aid. It's still the same Windows as ever. Just a gussied up interface "borrowed" heavily from Apple.

But then if you like architectural designs like the Registry, go for it.

GENERAL_SMILEY · Jan 8, 2007, 10:20 AM

I run Vista Ultimate on my MBP, but it doesn't seem to offer much.

It's got the Media Centre, but I don't find it that useful. Guess I need a tuner to use it with. Anybody know a tuner (express card/USB) which has drivers for both Vista/XP and OSX?

cheers.

Chuckit · Jan 8, 2007, 11:36 AM

Registry + activation + crap interface + thousands upon thousands of viruses = WIN!

No Time 4 Love Dr. Jones · Jan 8, 2007, 01:31 PM

To be fair, Windows Activation was only a real issue among the "PC enthusiast" crowd, the folks who were always changing their hardware as the latest and greatest hit the market. Now, however, you can't download updates at all without the Windows Genuine test, which is far more irritating and invasive than activation ever was (to me, anyway).

MattJeff · Jan 8, 2007, 01:56 PM

to be honest im scared for apple, im always worried Microsoft will do something right and people will love it. i hate that company.

Chuckit · Jan 8, 2007, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by MattJeff

to be honest im scared for apple, im always worried Microsoft will do something right and people will love it. i hate that company.

That happened 10 years ago when Microsoft made personal computing accessible and affordable.

CharlesS · Jan 8, 2007, 04:33 PM

They did? I thought that was the PC hardware manufacturers. Windows has always been a pretty expensive piece of software.

Chuckit · Jan 8, 2007, 04:37 PM

Those PC manufacturers didn't do much make computing accessible. Microsoft made a shoddy ripoff of Apple's UI that ran on cheaper hardware, and people flocked to it in droves.

Dark Helmet · Jan 8, 2007, 04:37 PM

Don't compare 10.4 to vista. You have to compare whatever 10.5 is going to be to Vista and I can't imagine in my wildest dreams Vista will have any major advantages.

kmkkid · Jan 8, 2007, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Don't compare 10.4 to vista. You have to compare whatever 10.5 is going to be to Vista and I can't imagine in my wildest dreams Vista will have any major advantages.

From what we've seen so far, Leopard doesn't seem to have many worthwhile advantages over Tiger.

walkerjs · Jan 8, 2007, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

From what we've seen so far, Leopard doesn't seem to have many worthwhile advantages over Tiger.

Spaces. I'm drooling over that feature (if it's coming in Leopard) as I type. VirtueDesktops is okay, but it has some naggy bugs and from the demos I've seen of Spaces (assuming that's what it's going to be called) that's worth the $100+ alone. At least to me.

kmkkid · Jan 8, 2007, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by walkerjs

Spaces. I'm drooling over that feature (if it's coming in Leopard) as I type. VirtueDesktops is okay, but it has some naggy bugs and from the demos I've seen of Spaces (assuming that's what it's going to be called) that's worth the $100+ alone. At least to me.

99% of average users will not even touch spaces imho.

mduell · Jan 8, 2007, 07:56 PM

I wonder when you'll be able to use OSX with CableCard. That's the most exciting Vista tie-in I've seen at CES.

walkerjs · Jan 8, 2007, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

99% of average users will not even touch spaces imho.

Probably not, but before I switched to the Mac I used a Linux box which has multiple desktops by default. Prior to that people who used Suns and their ilk with Motif under X windows also had multi-desktops built in. Really missed it when I switched but got used to using the other tricks (hide apps, expose') until I discovered VirtueDesktops.

I'm sure all the other hardcore tech geeks will welcome it, but yeah that probably represents about that percentage of the user base. Though it would appear that alot more UNIX geeks are going with the 'hey, this Apple is actually a really slickly updated NeXT box running good old BSD' and switching.

mitchell_pgh · Jan 8, 2007, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

From what we've seen so far, Leopard doesn't seem to have many worthwhile advantages over Tiger.

At least with Leopard, I can name real things that the end user can take advantage of.

Time Machine
Finally... a backup application for the rest of us. IMHO, well worth the upgrade price if it works as described.

iChat upgrade
The screen share feature looks amazing. Also, the iChat theater feature could be VERY useful.

Core Animation
I can't wait to see what some programmers come up with!

Originally Posted by kmkkid

99% of average users will not even touch spaces imho.

IMHO, spaces will be used by just as many people that use expose.

kmkkid · Jan 8, 2007, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

At least with Leopard, I can name real things that the end user can take advantage of.

Time Machine
Finally... a backup application for the rest of us. IMHO, well worth the upgrade price if it works as described.

iChat upgrade
The screen share feature looks amazing. Also, the iChat theater feature could be VERY useful.

Core Animation
I can't wait to see what some programmers come up with!

IMHO, spaces will be used by just as many people that use expose.

These things are not big enough to warrant a point release. Steve Better have some REAL BIG SECRETS revealed tomorrow, or I can see a lot of people being upset with what leopard brings.

Chuckit · Jan 8, 2007, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

These things are not big enough to warrant a point release. Steve Better have some REAL BIG SECRETS revealed tomorrow, or I can see a lot of people being upset with what leopard brings.

WTF do you want? It's at least as much as 10.1 -> 10.2 or 10.3 -> 10.4.

walkerjs · 09:17 PM

Hrm, yeah. I'm kind of failing to be upset over Leopard's new features even beyond spaces.

I'm also failing to be impressed by Vista, even vs. Tiger. Heck I'm not impressed by Vista vs. Panther for that matter.

Guess we'll all see tomorrow.

besson3c · Jan 8, 2007, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

Core Animation
I can't wait to see what some programmers come up with!

I don't really care what some programmers will come up, if I want eye candy I'll plug in a Nintendo or something. What I'm curious is how they will communicate something useful, and so far I've yet to see a convincing demo of this.

brokenjago · Jan 8, 2007, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by ChuckIt

WTF do you want? It's at least as much as 10.1 -> 10.2 or 10.3 -> 10.4.

Quoted for truth.™

kmkkid · 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

WTF do you want? It's at least as much as 10.1 -> 10.2 or 10.3 -> 10.4.

I want a capable file system browser. That's what I want. Didn't tiger boast over 100 new features from it's predecessor? So far, apart from the secret features I don't see that many new things in Leopard, especially things most people would even use.

Please let's not be fanboys, Leopard pre-MWSF doesn't look that impressive.

*edit* Apples tiger page says "OS X Tiger delivers 200+ new features which make it easier than ever to find, access and enjoy everything on your computer." Let's see how Leopard stacks up tomorrow. Especially since I'd hope Apple is trying to make OS X Leopard a 'Vista Killer', or at least on the same page.

solofx7 · Jan 8, 2007, 10:23 PM

i am sorry, i have to disagree with the Vista post that began this.
there are a multitude of reasons for this.
First reason is look at windows. always drivers issues and issues to begin with ie secuity. is that going to be stopped? i doubt it.
I have used Vista and will tell you that the same issues exist. the OS is still very confusing. more so than XP. Also useablility is not there and there drivers hell is even worse as it asks the same questions again and again.
Do you feel secure leaving windows running like your mac? i think not.
Now onto this compatability across the board. yes that is there with MS because of the money and thier OS being everywhere.
Now think about this Mac is compatable with nearly anything windows, and with Boot camp there is no reason to buy anything windows or only windows.
Media? ipods everywhere. the platinumstandard for music no questions there.
video on the go? anyone really buying a seperate player? no, i think that the upcoming ipod will fill that gap and people will feel where they feel Secure.
ipods are in our car, on our hip, and in our house and sometimes at work...
iTV will bridge the gap to the tv and video as well as sharing. hard drives to be seen in these later possibly.
HDTV? covered in iTV.
now what digital media OS do you feel more secure with? My personal vote is for OS X. now if you want windows? Boot Camp it. i will not deny that Vista is very pretty. but is pretty secure? functional? windows is just plain clunky and hard to use.
my digital media os vote is for OS X. i am a windows convert and give credit where credit is do.
media play? poop on a stick.
i am sorry, but this is just the way that it looks and feels to me...
i am a power user to an extent, and for a user like me or a grandma, OS X and thier apps are easier to use and just make sense. what you do and how you do it, take 1 time and you feel comfortable. after that? you are loking to be more complex and productive. that is OS X.
windows? you are just looking to get it done or looking for what you used last time.
do you think that "this is the last version of windows" is done because they want to? not even... it is this way because the pressure from making poop and from digital media not being in thier court anymore. Apple has been making small strides over time and is now making larger moves to rule the roost...
sorry to ramble, but this is my opinion. given all that i have said, do you want
OS X for $59 with student discount?
or Windows Vista for 150? to $600?
charging me for more features and the same os... sorry, no sale too much $$$ for to much poop...

Horsepoo!!! · Jan 8, 2007, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

These things are not big enough to warrant a point release. Steve Better have some REAL BIG SECRETS revealed tomorrow, or I can see a lot of people being upset with what leopard brings.

A lot of people = you, right?

kmkkid · Jan 8, 2007, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

A lot of people = you, right?

I don't give a rats ass personally. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, I'm saying it as I see it.

But you're right, the fanboys will run in droves to buy Leopard whether it's actually worth it or not, just like the windows fanboys will do for Vista. I'll upgrade simply for the knowledge that I'm current.

solofx7 · Jan 8, 2007, 11:20 PM

actualy the reason to buy OS X isindividual as well as it is worth it alot more than Vista in my opinion...
Vista is adding a pretty face and some functionality difference that most people will not see.
OS X is offering user friendly items tha people will actually use.
just my thoughts so do not curse at me.

larrinski · Jan 9, 2007, 12:10 AM

I don't think that Vista will lure away the Apple crowd. OS X is great. There still will be switchers coming over for the hardware / software symmetry. Windows can't touch that!

arng1 · Jan 9, 2007, 12:36 AM

Windows does have some small advantages, but personally I like a clean running operating system with easy access to all files. Windows just doesnt offer that, mostly because of its registry. Vista does look nice and it is versatile but I still think 10.5 and even 10.4 have the upper hand, especially nowadays.

Dark Helmet · Jan 9, 2007, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

From what we've seen so far, Leopard doesn't seem to have many worthwhile advantages over Tiger.

Right now no but in 12 hours it better be.

Annette310 · Jan 9, 2007, 01:31 AM

AHH!! I'm super excited for tomorrow

ChasingApple · Jan 9, 2007, 02:48 AM

My original post was more about the hardware items coming out that are taking advantage of the new Vista, not an OS X vs Vista comment. I really hope Apple has some new hardware out beyond the current line-up of systems, as in small, mobile, and usefull on the go type items. Hell, Leopard has not even interested me yet, I need smaller on the go hardware!

G0Ducks · Jan 9, 2007, 03:03 AM

If you are a student at the University of Oregon, you can get the Instal DVDs for $15. You don't get pamphlets or a box, but who cares!

R

I know where I'm shopping for the next big cat. With a price like that, I'd pay just to be current.

[OS X for $59 with student discount?
or Windows Vista for 150? to $600?
charging me for more features and the same os... sorry, no sale too much $$$ for to much poop...

solofx7 · Jan 9, 2007, 08:53 AM

there is talk of the iphone being a mini computer digital media thingy...
i guess anything is possible if we see it at all.

drainyoo · Jan 9, 2007, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by ChasingApple

I am a mac fan and have been here at these forums for years. But today being at CES setting up and getting ready for the show has opened my eyes a bit. The whole industry is moving towards media center, HDTV, and UMPC's. There was A LOT of power in many computers being set up, and the UMPC's were freakin awesome. Most of the new stuff running already there on the floor was running Vista, it was everywhere! It was better then I thought it was going to be. I was very impressed with the computers we will have access to in the months to come, but what about Apple...? Is OS X Leapard going to be enough? Are we only getting a new OS and minor revisions on the current line of Macs? God I hope not.

Apple needs the UM-Mac, touch screen, and the iTV to work and work well. Apple needs new products if it wants to continue in the computer market. I will wait for Macworld for my final judgement but unless Apple has some really slick new hardware to show off I fear they will be left behind this year. I will be working at CES on Wednesday and Thursday so I will have more insight to all the new toys then. We have one huge convention center here in Vegas though! I really really hope Apple has some new gadgets in store for us, if not I know I won't be being a new Mac this year but instead getting me a new UMPC!

Anyway, I will report back later, cheers.

Vista is a gross rip off of OSX. Nothing more.

solofx7 · Jan 9, 2007, 11:48 AM

Vista is a piece o poop...
besides being a rip off...
it is essentially a pretty versino of XP...
the way you get to stuff is different, but it is really the same...

xe0 · Jan 9, 2007, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by solofx7

Vista is a piece o poop...
besides being a rip off...
it is essentially a pretty versino of XP...
the way you get to stuff is different, but it is really the same...

100% agreed. Although one could argue that even the way you access stuff on Vista is overcomplicated and somewhat of a deterioration in usability.

brokenjago · Jan 9, 2007, 10:05 PM

Looks like the iPhone is a UMPC all on it's own!

TheoCryst · Jan 9, 2007, 11:54 PM

Too bad we still haven't heard anything about Leopard... hopefully it'll be getting its own little media event in a week or two.

Catfish_Man · Jan 10, 2007, 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by solofx7

Vista is a piece o poop...
besides being a rip off...
it is essentially a pretty versino of XP...
the way you get to stuff is different, but it is really the same...

Uh... more the opposite actually. Externally similar, but internally rewritten.

brokenjago · Jan 10, 2007, 02:41 AM

I'm not sure they'd announce a special event just to preview Leopard. Perhaps previewing Leopard + new Mac stuff, ala Mac Mini Media Center (would love that, could be Apple TV++,) or some kind of Mac tablet (one can hope,) or some type of new iPod (they need one.)

But not just for Leopard. I'm not sure if the press would appreciate being dragged down to Moscone just for a preview of an OS they likely don't care about. Unless it rocks.

And where the **** is iLife + iWork 07?

besson3c · Jan 10, 2007, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Catfish_Man

Uh... more the opposite actually. Externally similar, but internally rewritten.

Right. Vista now has what seems to be a sane security model. Not that exciting or glamorous a feature, but absolutely vital stuff.

Chuckit · Jan 10, 2007, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Right. Vista now has what seems to be a sane security model. Not that exciting or glamorous a feature, but absolutely vital stuff.

Vista has some big security improvements, but other areas (particularly in user permissions levels) seem to be new ways of making the same mistakes, from what I've seen.