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monroe2020 · May 12, 2006, 11:39 AM

I wonder if anyone here feels the way I do even thought this is a Mac forum, I love OS X, I own a dual 2.3GHz G5 Powermac and a 1.8GHz G5 iMac but I dislike the hardware of the Apple MacBook Pro so much so that I think I will be purchasing a PC laptop. The fragility of the aluminum case (especially for travelers), the extreme heat, the warped lids, and the short battery life makes the MacBook Pro even with OS X less desirable than some PC notebooks. I had a chance to play with a coworkers new Dell Latitude D820 and though it is a little heavier and not as slim as the MacBook Pro it is built great, professional looking and runs cool even after hours of use. It also has a media bay where you can add an extended battery for several extra hours of battery uptime.
I haven't owed a laptop before but now that my family and I are traveling more I feel I need one so I can work when I'm away. I'm sure we all agree that OS X is superior to Windows but is that enough to overlook the MacBook Pros shortcomings? I just wonder if anyone else is in the same position as me, in the market for a new laptop but just not excited about the MacBook Pro even though we prefer Apples OS to Windows.

fenixtx22 · May 12, 2006, 11:53 AM

actually i'm used to be in totally 360 degrees different position than yours now.
I never used OSX before but after owning several PC laptop, AcerFerrari, etc then i dissapointed with it , but i love the design of MBP so much, so now i made the "jump" and buy the MBP to try OSX

so far so good

just one advice if u really dont like the MBP, the best choice of PS laptop is ASUS, i owned ASUS W1N before, and it's one of the best PC lptop i;ve ever have, just my opinion though

ibook_steve · May 12, 2006, 01:28 PM

You do realize that you are reading a forum where people come specifically to bitch and complain about problems with their machines, right? The people that visit this forum are not the majority of users out there. Your "fragility of the aluminum case" quote is probably because you read the "Dents" thread which don't happen if you use a bag (I just use a backpack) and don't drop anything on it. The other problems are first run issues. I haven't seen anybody complaining about the 17", so it's highly likely that Apple has fixed most of the problems with the first 15" machines. Remember, try the machine yourself in an Apple store before jumping ship because you read people's complaints in an online forum.

Steve

mojo5436 · May 12, 2006, 01:52 PM

actually i'm used to be in totally 360 degrees different position than yours now

360 huh

Danoldo · May 12, 2006, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by mojo5436

360 huh

dont hate, english isn't strong with that one, the force will be with them soon

elrah · May 12, 2006, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Danoldo

dont hate, english isn't strong with that one, the force will be with them soon

I don't think it has anything to do with English.

360º is full circle. The same position.

jamil5454 · May 12, 2006, 02:22 PM

I'm pretty sure England and the U.S. are the only countries that have circles.

fenixtx22 · May 12, 2006, 02:41 PM

heehe sorry my english is bad

heheheh

masugu · May 12, 2006, 02:44 PM

Dunno...hearing some lots of common discgruntled threads on the MBP...here and elsewhere. So glad my Ti PB at 1GHz is running so well. I can afford to wait. No whine, no warp

Tomchu · May 12, 2006, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by ibook_steve

You do realize that you are reading a forum where people come specifically to bitch and complain about problems with their machines, right? The people that visit this forum are not the majority of users out there. Your "fragility of the aluminum case" quote is probably because you read the "Dents" thread which don't happen if you use a bag (I just use a backpack) and don't drop anything on it. The other problems are first run issues. I haven't seen anybody complaining about the 17", so it's highly likely that Apple has fixed most of the problems with the first 15" machines. Remember, try the machine yourself in an Apple store before jumping ship because you read people's complaints in an online forum.

Steve

Err, no need to get defensive.

In case you missed it, he's already the owner of an MBP. And he's not pleased. His complaints are valid.

mojo5436 · May 12, 2006, 05:05 PM

10-Dee-Q, sorry to call ya out fella, usually not my style. Might have been my jealousy for your newly acquired MBP. Switchers always welcome here.

ibook_steve · May 12, 2006, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Tomchu

Err, no need to get defensive.

In case you missed it, he's already the owner of an MBP. And he's not pleased. His complaints are valid.

Nowhere does he say he owns an MBP already. I'm just stating the facts. Reading this forum can scare off people who want to buy one without even trying it out for themselves.

Steve

b1NARY73 · May 12, 2006, 05:43 PM

I think people are being a little to picky about the MBP. I understand we pay a premium for the hardware. But if you think a MBP is flimsy, or to hot, try using a comparable PC laptop, made of plastic, with a friggin huge Copper Heat Sink on it, constantly running. I am a proud owner of a 2.00 Ghz MBP, problem free, and loving it. My 12" PB G4 was insanely hot, and the fan was constantly on.... which was a well known common problem. I rarely hear anyone complain about that.... they are actually praised highly. Simple, if you don't like it, or worried you may not be able to accept some of the issues (IMHO that have been beat to death), then buy that Dell and Enjoy Windows XP, and all the fun that comes with owning a PC. =)

monroe2020 · May 12, 2006, 06:02 PM

Well I stopped by an Apple Store on the way home from work, there is one about 10 minutes from my office. I played with the MacBook Pros again just to see if I would at all feel differently. There were 3 15" MacBook Pros out on one table, both 1.83 and 2.0GHz versions and one 17" MacBook Pro they had just put out a couple of hours before I arrived. First all 3 MacBook Pros felt very warm, really this just doesn't seem normal to me. Considering they are not exactly getting a workout with heavy duty processing I can only imagine what they would feel like under a heavy load. The second thing I noticed is that the mouse button on all three felt different, one was very smooth and felt good where another was much stiffer. I closed two of them to just to see how heavy and how they feel closed, with one of them the latch would not even catch, the top just kept popping up. Also the dispaly does not tilt far back enough, I thought I would break it off if I pushed too hard! Then I went over to the 17" MacBook Pro and it already felt pretty warm after being out only about two hour! Another think I noticed with the 17" version is the display looked "fuzzy", somehow not sharp though this was not the case with the 15" version.
It's frustrating because I'm used to OS X and I have Mac desktops but I just can't seem to warm up to the MacBook Pros. Believe it or not I would prefer something like a Thinkpad T series or the Dell D820 that would run OS X over the MacBook Pro design.

onlykaria · May 12, 2006, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by JMJ

I wonder if anyone here feels the way I do even thought this is a Mac forum, I love OS X, I own a dual 2.3GHz G5 Powermac and a 1.8GHz G5 iMac but I dislike the hardware of the Apple MacBook Pro so much so that I think I will be purchasing a PC laptop. The fragility of the aluminum case (especially for travelers), the extreme heat, the warped lids, and the short battery life makes the MacBook Pro even with OS X less desirable than some PC notebooks. I had a chance to play with a coworkers new Dell Latitude D820 and though it is a little heavier and not as slim as the MacBook Pro it is built great, professional looking and runs cool even after hours of use. It also has a media bay where you can add an extended battery for several extra hours of battery uptime.
I haven't owed a laptop before but now that my family and I are traveling more I feel I need one so I can work when I'm away. I'm sure we all agree that OS X is superior to Windows but is that enough to overlook the MacBook Pros shortcomings? I just wonder if anyone else is in the same position as me, in the market for a new laptop but just not excited about the MacBook Pro even though we prefer Apples OS to Windows.

since few others seem interested in being helpful I will try.

of course I agree that the mac os is superior, but I don't think its enough, not by a long shot. reason is simple if apple insists on making hardware, and insists on not allowing any one else to make hard ware that runs their software, they should make sure that it works. and if they insist on charging $2000-$3000 for that, in spite of what some posters on this and other forums say it should work. it should not be too hot to touch nor should it ship with dead superdrivers nor should it be too loud to use in class where a pc or older mac laptop works fine and quietly. nor should it suffer from near constant kernal panics as mine did. asking too not have these issues is not whining, or complaining or anything of the sort it being completely reasonable. I don't care to switch to windows os. but I can't say that I am not disinterested in finding out ways to run to software and os I love on hardware that does not have these major issues. because even pc laptop has to be better than typeing and working on your cellphone because you 2k machine is out being repaired/replaced.

pete · May 12, 2006, 06:09 PM

Maybe we really do have to start accepting things like heat and whines as part of the new Intel reality. Maybe we've just been spoiled up until now.

I saw the 17" today and I thought the display looked excellent compared to the 15", but it did have a white stripe at the bottom which of course is not normal. I think what all this shows us is that Apple has very very poor quality control mechanisms in place. The mark of good quality control is that you know that when you buy a laptop the quality will largely be the same from unit to unit. with Apple's laptops recently this is not the case and everything seems to vary.

Anyway....maybe acceptance will lead to peace? I'll meditate on this over the weekend : )

chabig · May 12, 2006, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by JMJ

It also has a media bay where you can add an extended battery for several extra hours of battery uptime..

You can buy a second battery for the MBP too.

Chris

Tomchu · May 12, 2006, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by ibook_steve

Nowhere does he say he owns an MBP already. I'm just stating the facts. Reading this forum can scare off people who want to buy one without even trying it out for themselves.

Steve

Indeed. My bad. My apologies.

Originally Posted by chabig

You can buy a second battery for the MBP too.

Chris

A second battery is not quite the same as a second battery bay.

chabig · May 12, 2006, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by Tomchu

A second battery is not quite the same as a second battery bay.

That's true, but we're not talking about a second battery bay. We're talking about a "media" bay into which you can insert a battery. Oops, when the battery is in the media bay you lose your optical drive... So which would you rather carry externally, a second battery or your optical drive?

Chris

masugu · May 12, 2006, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Maybe we really do have to start accepting things like heat and whines as part of the new Intel reality. Maybe we've just been spoiled up until now.

I saw the 17" today and I thought the display looked excellent compared to the 15", but it did have a white stripe at the bottom which of course is not normal. I think what all this shows us is that Apple has very very poor quality control mechanisms in place. The mark of good quality control is that you know that when you buy a laptop the quality will largely be the same from unit to unit. with Apple's laptops recently this is not the case and everything seems to vary.

Anyway....maybe acceptance will lead to peace? I'll meditate on this over the weekend : )

Let's face it. The MBP was rushed to market. Rushed I say. The heat et al should be solved....in Rev B/

hldan · May 12, 2006, 10:27 PM

Rev B? Yeah Right! Rev B,C,D,E,F,G.....will not stop people from complaining. If Rev H is perfect people will complain that it's too perfect.
Apple notebooks and heat have been a matched pair since like forever. This is nothing new and it won't change. However HP's and Sony Vaios blow lots of heat out of them. I work at Fry's and I see this about them everyday so if you all think overheating laptops belongs only in the Apple catagory you are all sadly mistaken.

hldan · May 12, 2006, 10:30 PM

Rev B? Yeah Right! Rev B,C,D,E,F&G.....will not stop people from complaining. If Rev H is perfect people will complain that it's too perfect.
Apple notebooks and heat have been a matched pair since like forever. This is nothing new and it won't change. However HP's and Sony Vaios blow lots of heat of them. I work at Fry's and I see this about them everyday so if you all think overheating laptops belongs only in the Apple catagory you are all sadly mistaken.

mduell · May 12, 2006, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by chabig

That's true, but we're not talking about a second battery bay. We're talking about a "media" bay into which you can insert a battery. Oops, when the battery is in the media bay you lose your optical drive... So which would you rather carry externally, a second battery or your optical drive?

I have the D610 with the same media bay system. The second battery is in the bay about 99% of the time. The media bay optical drive (not as big/heavy as an external) is in my bag, but rarely gets out.

masugu · 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by hldan

Rev B? Yeah Right! Rev B,C,D,E,F&G.....will not stop people from complaining. If Rev H is perfect people will complain that it's too perfect.
Apple notebooks and heat have been a matched pair since like forever. This is nothing new and it won't change. However HP's and Sony Vaios blow lots of heat of them. I work at Fry's and I see this about them everyday so if you all think overheating laptops belongs only in the Apple catagory you are all sadly mistaken.

Awright...the product was still rushed I think...especially when you look at the back revving on the drive and such. But come on..this is a pretty big transition. One would have to think the 1st rev would have issues.

Yes. I have a VAIO laptop as well. Sounds like a 747.

JKT · May 13, 2006, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by pete

Maybe we really do have to start accepting things like heat and whines as part of the new Intel reality. Maybe we've just been spoiled up until now.

Yes, heat and whines never happened with the PPC AlBooks

Wrt to fuzzy screens on laptops - unless Apple has specifically changed there settings since the last time I was at an Apple Store, I would always check the System Preferences>Appearance settings to ensure that Font Smoothing is set to something sensible (it used to be the case that it was always set for "Standard - best for CRT" no matter what the Mac was, thus making text look wispy). Personally, I use "Strong" on my laptop to get the best results for me.

Another thing to realise is that calibration of the screen can also make a big difference, so that's something else to play with while looking.

pete · May 13, 2006, 07:37 AM

Sure, powerbooks have been warming up for a long time, but the macbook pro is still by FAR the hottest Apple laptop ever.There is no comparison and I've had most powerbooks.

masugu · May 13, 2006, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Sure, powerbooks have been warming up for a long time, but the macbook pro is still by FAR the hottest Apple laptop ever.There is no comparison and I've had most powerbooks.

Well....you should know Pete OK....now I am considering the MB even more. However, if the reviews here on Merom are much better - maybe. But by then I bet there could be a a 13" MBP? Oy vey.

hldan · May 13, 2006, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Sure, powerbooks have been warming up for a long time, but the macbook pro is still by FAR the hottest Apple laptop ever.There is no comparison and I've had most powerbooks.

Even though I still stand behind what I said earlier about most notebooks exuding an exteme amount of heat as the norm I have to admit I was actually expecting long battery life and a much cooler running MacBook since Intel is so well known for the Centrino running cooler and have iBook-like battery life but unfortunately not much has changed since the PowerPC lines but at least we got the speedy notebooks that we all have been craving for.

JKT · May 13, 2006, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Sure, powerbooks have been warming up for a long time, but the macbook pro is still by FAR the hottest Apple laptop ever.There is no comparison and I've had most powerbooks.

It is also the fastest, most powerful Apple laptop ever. If you are expecting things to get cooler while Apple maintains the same design...

My point was that this has nothing to do with the type of CPU - it is the design of the casing etc, that is at fault. Intel or PPC, it makes no difference. The problem lies with the actual overall design.

pete · 04:45 PM

I understand that they are much more powerful than the previous, cooler, powerbooks and therefore I don't expect Apple to maintain the same design. On the contrary, I expect Apple to make the necessary design changes to accommodated the new heat development. It appears that they haven't really done that, or they just did a half-ass job with it.

Anyway....I'll try to control my desire to rant all the time....

Ah, yes, your point too. sorry, didn't read your post porperly.