[DKeithA]

Personally, I doubt it. I think this will be the summer of the new consumer Macintosh. If the Titanium PowerBook does not have a revision this summer, it will definitely have one next January. I think all we can do is speculate - only certain Apple employees know for sure - but what do you all think?

[fobside]

part of me doesnt want them to revise it cuz then ill be able to say i got it first and all those who waited didnt get anything better. but id also hope that apple will make improvements to it...maybe dual processor Ti. at any rate i think its too soon for a revision from them for the Ti.

------------------
I used to use a PC.

[jeffs7364]

I don't think it's going to happen this summer. It's just too soon. I think they have their hands full with the new OS. They'd probably release a new powerbook in January though; i'd hope the same design but with better graphics and any other "quirks" resolved.

Now having said that, mine will be here tomorrow so that means they'll completely redesign it for June ;-)

part of me wants them to come out with a new revision this summer cause then i'll be able to say look at you guys who just couldn't wait to get the titanium powerbook as it was meant to be so you gave in and spent 3K for a Titanium Pismo.

[Phat Bastard]

I'm at the point where every two minutes I change my mind about whether I should buy a Ti now or wait until the summer. I REALLY WANT ONE NOW, but I have this bad feeling that if the next revision of the comp comes out at MWNY or something and it comes with a better video card, motherboard, etc. I'll feel like an idiot.

The logical and financially sound way to go is to wait for at least July. REALISTICALLY, I don't WANT to wait...what should I do??

------------------
Phat B

Ack!! I'm still stuck with a PC!!

[GK]

get one now, summer is still a long wait.

[Gaijin]

I am in the same boat...I really WANT to buy one right now, but I will wait for summer at least hoping all the bugs will be worked out...not to mention that I'm hoping for a better graphics/RAM and perhaps a CPU speed bump...not a whole lot to ask for.

------------------
Stand tall and shake the heavens!

[This message has been edited by Gaijin (edited 04-03-2001).]

[fisherKing]

same old story.
there MAY be a new T1 in July. or maybe not. but wait! maybe the REAL one to wait for is in january... or maybe,

figure your needs NOW & go for it. the future is always in...the future.
there will ALWAYS be something newer (better?) later...

new G3/400 owner (working faster/better & loving it!)

[GraphiteBoi]

I think it is almost certain that they will update the PB in one form or another..personally I am leaning towards a speed bump...but maybe even a better graphics card or something of that sort

------------------
i Think, therefore iMac.

I doubt they'll come up with anything too, but they really need to. I was one of the people who weren't too happy with the display size-graphic chipset of the Ti Powerbook when it came out, and as more time passes, the worse it looks. Benchmarks have started to appear with the Geforce2go equipped PC Notebooks, and it appears it performs 2 to 3 times faster on average compared to the ATI M4. And the G4 doesn't even have the M4 with AGPx4 and 32 MB SGRAM, it has a Rage 128 with 8 MB for chrissake! That's pretty lame. Meanwhile DELL is already selling an Inspiron 8000 in Europe with 1Ghz Pentium III, 1600x1200 UXGA display and geforce2go 32 MB DDR. Yeah, DDR no less. They'll probably start selling the same thing here in the States next month.
Now with the Quartz driven anti-aliased text and the high resolution icons in OS X, a UXGA display would kick ass, maybe something with the same resolution as the Cinema display. But as I said, Apple is quite slow with their upgrades, it takes'em more than 6 months usually, so....

Originally posted by Phat Bastard:
I'm at the point where every two minutes I change my mind about whether I should buy a Ti now or wait until the summer. I REALLY WANT ONE NOW, but I have this bad feeling that if the next revision of the comp comes out at MWNY or something and it comes with a better video card, motherboard, etc. I'll feel like an idiot.

The logical and financially sound way to go is to wait for at least July. REALISTICALLY, I don't WANT to wait...what should I do??

As Nike says, just do it. Buy or don't buy: both can turn out bad. You might buy now, then miss the speed bump and kick yourself. Or you can wait and nothing new shows up in the summer. Then you'll decide, well, it'll lose a ton of value come January and MWSF anyway, so why should you buy? The cycle never ends.

[trv]

Originally posted by Phat Bastard:
I'm at the point where every two minutes I change my mind about whether I should buy a Ti now or wait until the summer. I REALLY WANT ONE NOW, but I have this bad feeling that if the next revision of the comp comes out at MWNY or something and it comes with a better video card, motherboard, etc. I'll feel like an idiot.

The logical and financially sound way to go is to wait for at least July. REALISTICALLY, I don't WANT to wait...what should I do??

YES WAIT! Don't be like us fools who bought the first lot. Wait for JAN/2002 or should I say APRIL/2002. I have both, pc & mac and they are both ONLY good. What they have on their shevels is what we need but they have to get rid of all the crap first. G5 they know all about it, some are even using it today as I type. OUCH! that hurts.

[Cipher13]

I hope theres a revision.
The current model is... shoddy.

Physically fragile, has quirks when typing, screen deformation, a lot are badly fitted together, its... shoddy.
Ugh.

I want one, but not this revision.
And that graphics card? Pfft, how pathetic.


------------------

[Volteface]

Physically fragile would certainly be my experience (I'm the bloke that dropped one).

But I don't think we should be too hard on it, it has the makings of a modern classic, even with it's flaws.

In fact, I reckon that's often an aspect that makes something a true classic - the combination of design, functionality and the odd maddening idiosyncrasy.

Learning to live with flaws, or work around them, can often be far more worthwhile than one would think. I'm not sure though if my wife would agree.

[opallaser]

I've never found it physically fragile. The first time i picked it up it felt more rigid than my PISMO and i still feel that way know. Dropping any computer isn't going to do it much good.

------------------
Anarchy is an ethic

[cjno]

I got exactly the same feeling, since my previous powerbook was a Pismo.

[arne]

i think they revised a lot for today.
eg. the battery thing /shuts of randomly when moving
or the dvd /misaligned

i sent mine back today because of the
battery flaw. apart from this and
the two weeks i should wait for
the fix - it is a real good machine.

new graphic chip in the future /mwny
and maybe
500/128/20g
600/256/30g

but it is a great machine right now.

[haunebu]

Originally posted by arne:
i think they revised a lot for today.
eg. the battery thing /shuts of randomly when moving
or the dvd /misaligned

i sent mine back today because of the
battery flaw. apart from this and
the two weeks i should wait for
the fix - it is a real good machine.

new graphic chip in the future /mwny
and maybe
500/128/20g
600/256/30g

but it is a great machine right now.

I think your guess is right on. They NEED to update that lame graphics chip, and a Mhz/RAM/hard drive bump seems logical to keep it competitive. That's the only reason why I am waiting- for MWNY.

If any of you thinks Apple will wait until 2002 to update the Ti's crappy Rage128 (not to mention Mhz), then you're nuts. With The aforementioned Dell running at 1Ghz w/GeeForce2Go, the PowerBook is starting to look second-rate, and will be ridiculously so in Summer.

It's still a great machine now, but there is a lot of room for improvement.

[This message has been edited by haunebu (edited 04-04-2001).]

[milhouse]

I think we will see a better grafx chip and a speed bump. I OC'd my DP 533 to 600 without a hiccup so there's lots of headroom in the current yield of chips.

I also just ordered a Ti500 but it's not my primary machine so if there's a bump in grafx chips,no biggie for me. As for the speed bump, I can do that too! ;D

And perhaps a better coating on the Ti's shell. From user reports, it marks far too easily.

As far as Apple's best interests go, I agree with the first poster, that there needs to be an infusion into the consumer line. The iMac needs a makeover to keep it on top. Perhaps a cube-like thingy with a flat screen? Or perhaps a remade 17" iMac?

my $0.02



I wonder when USB2 will hit the Apple line?

Still can't wait for it to arrive...

[This message has been edited by milhouse (edited 04-04-2001).]

Firewire2 ...
Airport 2...

[haunebu]

Originally posted by milhouse:
I think we will see a better grafx chip and a speed bump. I OC'd my DP 533 to 600 without a hiccup so there's lots of headroom in the current yield of chips.

Hey milhouse,

Wanna tell me how you did it, or where you found the instructions? I have a DP 450 and would like to give it a whirl if it's only jumper blocks like in every other tower. Where can I find the settings?

[milhouse]

Hey,

go to http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/g4articles.html

There are several articles on OC'ing your Mac.

Also check out the forums. Among the best on the net, IMHO

NOTE:It's not a jumper block for the Sawtooth mobos. (I think only the Yikes is the jblock OC) You have to solder and de-solder...SMT stuff. While it's not terribly difficult it's not for the faint of heart. One slip of the iron and ole graphite is toasted.

good luck

[This message has been edited by milhouse (edited 04-04-2001).]

[Ryu]

New graphic card huh??? Which one??? GeForce2Go or Radeon Mobility??? Don't forget that upgrading the graphic card requires AGP 4x motherboard... this means a UMB upgrade. Then this also means a processor upgrade. If Apple is ready to give such a considerable change, it will probably try to change the screen resolution too.

I think this is something as important as Lombard to Pismo upgrade. Now, for such thing, 5-6 months is not enough. May be Paris Apple Expo though...

[Phat Bastard]

I was talking with a friend about this upgraded video card/no upgraded video card in the PBG4 at MNWY. Personally, I think Apple will NOT upgade the video card, and for that matter, Apple will not upgrade the TiBook at all. Here are the reasons we could come up with.

Apple KNEW the ATI Radeon and the NVIDIA Geforce2go would be coming out only a couple months after releasing the TiBook (as per their working relationships). Obviously, they felt they needed to get the comp on the market so they made an active choice to go with the year-old technology of the ATI Rage 128 Mobility. Why?

1) The G4 chip in the TiBook produces a ton of heat--as exemplified by the many comments users have had about how hot the TiBook gets. Apple felt if they were going to get a G4 Powerbook on the market and keep it away from burning the laps off their customers with the added heat of a powerful video card, they better stick with the cooler ATI Rage 128 Mobility.

2) According to a friend of mine who works at ATI, the NVIDIA Geforce2go consumes 30% as much power as the ATI Radeon, which itself consumes considerably more power than the ATI Rage 128 Mobility. In laptops, power is at a premium because of batter life. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put two and two together--Apple chose to stick with the Rage 128 to keep the battery life at a reasonable level. Don't expect that desire to change anytime soon.

3) The Powerbook line and laptops in general are not meant to be gaming machines, thus the greater capabilities of the Radeon and Geforce2go are not particularly required. The Rage 128 Mobility performs well enough for most users.

4) The TiBooks are selling like hotcakes regardless of the video card in them. This verifies point (3).

Having said all that, unless Apple makes a MAJOR overhaul of the TiBook, the ATI Radeon or the NVIDIA Geforce2go aren't logical options for the computer. If they ARE going to be seen in the TiBook, the comp will need a HUGE upgrade of its infrastructure (i.e. casing that dissipates heat better, a cooler running G4, better motherboard, etc.) and it's quite unreasonable for a major upgrade to the TiBook to occur so soon. My guess is MWNY won't see any changes to the TiBook, even with all these Dell 1 Ghz/NVIDIA Geforce2go computers. Because we all know a G4/500 outperforms a P4/1Ghz anyway.

I agree with milhouse in that the consumer line(s) will get an upgrade, specifically the iBook. That thing hasn't changed for a while and it's about time it did. It'll probably get a new casing (rumours abound that it will be aluminum or some kind of metal), a speedbump for the G3, and maybe new colours.

Right about now I'm thinking of going out and buying a TiBook the way it is since I don't think we'll see a new one at MWNY.

------------------
Phat B

Ack!! I'm still stuck with a PC!!

[Bugs Bunny]

Mr. Phat B,

I think I've seen some of your work on a.b.mac.apps
Maybe it's a different Phat B

------------------

[haunebu]

Originally posted by Phat Bastard:
1) The G4 chip in the TiBook produces a ton of heat--as exemplified by the many comments users have had about how hot the TiBook gets. Apple felt if they were going to get a G4 Powerbook on the market and keep it away from burning the laps off their customers with the added heat of a powerful video card, they better stick with the cooler ATI Rage 128 Mobility.

2) According to a friend of mine who works at ATI, the NVIDIA Geforce2go consumes 30% as much power as the ATI Radeon, which itself consumes considerably more power than the ATI Rage 128 Mobility. In laptops, power is at a premium because of batter life. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put two and two together--Apple chose to stick with the Rage 128 to keep the battery life at a reasonable level. Don't expect that desire to change anytime soon.

3) The Powerbook line and laptops in general are not meant to be gaming machines, thus the greater capabilities of the Radeon and Geforce2go are not particularly required. The Rage 128 Mobility performs well enough for most users.

4) The TiBooks are selling like hotcakes regardless of the video card in them. This verifies point (3).

1) Nice theory, but in *reality* the mobility RADEON consumes less power than the Rage128. Especially since it uses a staging process (like SpeedStep) that adjusts the clock anywhere from 50-200Mhz, depending on the demand. In fact, the mobility RADEON's power consumption at full load (2.3W) is even less than the GeForce2Go's full-bore 2.4W. And, no, it's not hotter. Common sense, mixed with the fact that both new chips are made on a smaller process and consume less wattage than the old Rage128 should tell you that anyway.

Incidentally, the GeForce2Go also has a stepping process that adjusts consumption from between .9W and 2.4W, depending on the load.

2) See #1.

3) It performs well enough for my grandpa, but that's about it. Fact is, most people are replacing their desktops with laptops. People play games with them- Surprise!! Think Doom 3 is even going to run on a Rage128? Good luck.

4) That's just bullsh1t. There's plenty of people who can't palate the crappy 8MB of VRAM it has, much less the non-existent 3D performance. Lots of people are waiting for an update, including most people who want decent framerates in their games.

"Simply stated - the GeForce2 Go blows the Ati Rage128 Mobility out of the water in terms of feature set and performance, and does so while consuming equivalent or less power. " - http://www.planethardware.com/featur...ex-gf2go.shtml

Edit: In addition, moving the memory to on-die (as the new chips do) dramatically decreases the amount of space needed to house the chips/memory - so it's actually perfect for something like the Ti, where space is at a premium.

[This message has been edited by haunebu (edited 04-05-2001).]

I agree with haunebu. I was not impressed with the Tibook when Jobs revealed its specs after he unveiled it. As I stated in a previous post the Tibook is a slightly upgraded Pismo with a Titanium shell and I already have a pismo which serves me fine. thanks very much Apple, you've given those who just couldn't wait what they wanted, now please (this summer) give the rest of us the Tibook as it was meant to be...we're waiting.

[milhouse]

Yeah,
8MB of VRAM is a bit shabby by today's standards.

When my Lombard could play DVD's "full screen" on my 27" TV two years ago, it was kinda cool but a bit dated now as they are becomming desktop replacements more and more.

even so, I still ordered a Ti. It's just cool. And I have my DP desktop G4 for games, when I have the time...



[This message has been edited by milhouse (edited 04-05-2001).]

Think about this:

MW SanFrancisco: Ti-book (+new towers?)

MW Tokyo: iMac revisions

MW New York: new iBooks (or iBook revisions)

See a potential marketing pattern?

-----Ti-fighter----

[christophe]

Wasn t there a thread somewhere about the fact that there was Colored Ti in design/production/rumors??? i can see Apple bumping the RAM and the HD and maybe replace the DVD with either a Superdrive or CDRW drive.

In the complete Santa Claus list I d like to see a Radeon Mobility or something better than the Rage Pro... I just installed a Radeon in a G4 tower and the 160$ spend on it are a massive improvement on Quake3 and UT...many textures and graphics/background movs are just inexistants on the Rage pro or mobility.

I think that if Apple DOES upgrade it it would have to be the Graphic Card... like giving production of a new mobility card to ATI while giving the Desktop models to nVidia.
Upgrading RAM or HD space or including a CDRW, well Id on t really consider that a new model...only adding diff colors or diff keyboard or diff layout of the trackpad and buttons...and whatever previous posts said...Apple DOES sell tons of Ti

BTW: I just ordered one at work and it arrives tomorrow morning, got to show airport and 'the beast' at those silly IT guys/management during presentations and demos in the conf room...and personally ic an t wait to go and work on the beach or at Starbucks on Week ends instead of at home in front of the TV.

------------------
'Go with Mac my Son, be safe from Evil'
Knight of the Holy Church of Macintosh

[Bugs Bunny]

Here's what I'd like to see in a Titanium:

1. G3 800-1000MHz processor, G4 is too hot/too much power consumption for a notebook. The G3 is a super cool running chip, low power consumption, fast, who gives a rats @ss about altivec sh!t
2. 133MHz system bus
3. nVidia/ATI 32 MB vid card
4. Dual batteries
5. Dual fans
6. 4 speaker sound system
7. IBM's new 48 gig notebook drive
8. 8xDVD(hardware decoder)/CD-RW 16x12x32
9. Mini Apple Pro mouse
10. 1 gig, real life ram, not a promise.
11. There's more, but I don't want to be too greedy

---
Ti/500/512/20
G4/533/512/40


------------------

[seanyepez]

I think your system will happen in about two years, save the G3 bit, which will never happen.

ATi sucks. Apple is phazing out ATi in all of its lines, and not including new ATi products in new computers. The iMac will eventually get nVidia graphics. Even ATi's 32-megabyte cards suck. They're still based on the stone-age Rage 128. The GeForce2 Go is the most impressive feat in mobile graphics hardware, ever. Though it does consume much more power than the other chipsets, the performance it delivers does not make my support of nVidia's mobile solution waiver. They could just alter the clock speeds to deliver superior battery life, like Intel and their SpeedStep, or Apple and its Energy Saver on the Titanium PowerBook. The Energy Saver could include an option to tune-down the graphics performance. Problem solved. Toshiba is getting all the attention with their GeForce2 Go notebooks.

I hope for a faster G4, nVidia graphics, and a keyboard that isn't made with cheap plastic mechanisms. The keyboard won't happen, but I hope for the rest of my wishes to come true. They likely will... someday.

[Macfreak7]

Since Motorola is coming up with a G5 sometime this year, there will DEFINITELY be a speed bump in both the Ti models. Probably larger HDs too.

But im really waiting for a better graphics card,(again) thats the only reason why im waiting.

err... and i'd DEFINITELY NOT want to see colored Ti's. Who the hell brought up that stupid idea anyway.

[reynard_muldrake]

Here's my take:

There won't be a major upgrade for a LONG time since the Ti, iMac and G4 were just upgraded, although the towers are due for a face-lift. The only Macs that are due for a significant upgrade are the iBook and the Cube. The iBook will slim-down and it would be great if it used an aluminum space-frame and a carbon-fiber exterior. The Cube will, in time, inherit the innards of the G4 towers.

--Reynard Muldrake

[Phat Bastard]

Whatever the case may be with the upgrade/no upgrade situation, I think one argument holds: the Tibooks are selling like hotcakes so why wouldn't Apple want to ride that as long as they can? Introducing a new Tibook so soon would dilute out their sales.

I agree with everyone saying the iBook is due for an upgrade. I think we can all agree before Apple does ANY upgrading of the Tibook the iBook will be revised first.

I'm buying my Tibook/400 tomorrow regardless. I figure I'll sell it on eBay if I'm wrong and a new one comes out at MWNY. I'll remember to come back to this forum to try and sell it.

------------------
Phat B

Ack!! I'm still stuck with a PC!!

[austeros]

i sure as hell hope they are upgrading the tibook, because i am saving for a revision. the graphics chip has got to go. a dp tibook, even at 500 mhz would whip the crap out of any mobile pentium 3.

i am a student, replacing a rev b imac. i need to be able to do some gaming (and i dont mean quake 2), though i will probably get an xbox.

i really would like to see a dvd/cdrw drive. i dont need it, but it would really be a nice thing to have.

------------------
-rok

[Phat Bastard]

I am writing this on my brand new Tibook/400. So far I must say I AM IMPRESSED OUT OF MY MIND! I think I can overlook the video card and concentrate on how much this computer kicks most laptop's asses. Rage 128 Mobility? Who the hell cares.

I guess I should change my signature from "I'm still stuck on a PC"! *lol*

------------------
Phat B

Ack!! I'm still stuck with a PC!!

[adamwsoccer]

I'm quite positive all the Mac will have revisions this coming MacWorld in July. Maybe not the Cube or the Tower G4, but the rest. Apple HAS to if they want to keep above or atleast up to date with the rest of the industry. SPEED BUMPS ARE A MUST. I mean like speed increase, not those speed bumps on the road that slow you down At the least they should lower the price on their Macs if they decide to not do much to them.

I think the Titanium will get a speed bump and a better graphics card. (They better!)

It's gona be cool though, with all Macs shipping with OS X! When ordinary people see Macs with OS X in stores, they should be stunned!

------------------
Think different.
"To see tomorrow's PC, look at today's Macintosh"
http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/brentwin/aws/apple.html

[Kestral]

Originally posted by Macfreak7:
Since Motorola is coming up with a G5 sometime this year, there will DEFINITELY be a speed bump in both the Ti models. Probably larger HDs too.

But im really waiting for a better graphics card,(again) thats the only reason why im waiting.

err... and i'd DEFINITELY NOT want to see colored Ti's. Who the hell brought up that stupid idea anyway.

Considering Motorola's current woes of which there are many, I highly question that they will have G5's out there if at all.

Just some of the problems MOT is facing:

1. MOT is geting alsolutely creamed by Nokia in the cell phone market, hemmoraging market share - this is bread and butter revenue base getting taken away like candy from a baby.

2. Huge amounts of debt, so much so that there are rumors of possible banruptcy.

3. Massive layoffs - I doubt that people MOT laid off all manner of people EXCEPT for those who are working on PPC chips (which is a very minor part of their business). Can't be good for worker morale, you can be sure quality employees are not happy, are leaving or have already left for greener pastures.

Personally I'd love to see MOT go under, it'd be the best thing to happen for AAPL. Short term pain could lead to long term gain. They have been a collar on Apple's growth and development for far too long.

[rambo47]

Apple has fallen victim to the pressures of Wall Street. In order to keep the shareholders happy and to compete with Dell, Compaq, et al, Apple is shipping new products a much faster rate than ever before. Sadly, quallity suffers. The Ti Book is a perfect example. All the little issues like poor battery fit and DVD fit point to rushing the product out the door. I personally want one so bad I can taste it, but for the first time in recent memory I'm excersing impulse control and waiting to see what happens at MWNY this July.

The sloppy fit of components and anemic VRAM in the flagship laptop is terrible public relations on Apple's part. Some one like me will probably never need more than 8 MB VRAM, but the general public buys new computers based on specs. It's not smart, it's just the way it is. Dell is going to make sales simply because they offer features like 32 MB VRAM. Apple will lose some because they offer only 8 MB. If MWNY sees an upgrade to 16 MB VRAM in the Ti Book I'll jump all over it. Until then, I'm sticking with my upgraded Comet.

------------------
iDisk: rseijas
Homepage: homepage.mac.com/rseijas

I don't think there will be major changes to the Ti book, it's out only since a few months. Maybe a faster processor, if they're available, but I don't think so, maybe a choice of cdrw and dvd, hopefully I can replace my dvd one day for a cdrw which is more usefull, to me.

I'm happy with the graphic card, yes it can be better, but then, it always can be better, and this is good enough for most of the Ti book buyers (the ones that don't even know these kind of forums exsist)

The only thing I dislike is the missing apple key at the right of the space key (like always) and the bad sound quality (because of the casing, but I have a nice headset)

Yeas, I'm very happy with this great Mac!