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corvus32 · Feb 13, 2006, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by ambush

Did it mess up his face?

Probably not if Cheney was using a 28 gauge and the guy was stand 30 yards away. A 28 guage is small, so their shells hold fewer pellets, and since they were quail hunting he would have been using something like a modified or improved cylinder choke in the gun, which makes it shoot a fairly wide pattern, especially at 30+ yards. With that setup, I would say about 60 - 70% of the shell's pellets would have landed in a 40" circle at 30 - 40 yards. He was probably using #8 shot, or 7 1/2's, since they were hunting quail. Those pellets are much smaller than a BB, at least half the size, if not smaller.

Shaddim · Feb 13, 2006, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by ambush

That's what you get for shooting bird for fun: a ****ing shotgun spray in your face!
That'll teach them... not.

They probably eat them, as do the vast majority of bird huinters.

Quit being such a buffoon.

Shaddim · Feb 13, 2006, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by PookJP

So now we have a President who did coke and was an alcoholic, a first lady who killed someone, a first daughter with a certain booze and pill affinity, and a Vice President who's shot a man. Not bad!

A first lady who killed someone?

Really, are the Dems & Libs around here so desperate that they need to poke the VP over a hunting accident? This isn't even a story.

Almost everyone who hunts has gotten peppered before. Hell, I've been hit with bird shot on 2 occasions (but not in the face), and even though it doesn't feel good, it's hardly cause for alarm. I didn't even go to a doctor, just picked out the shot with tweezers and dowsed the area with some alcohol.

boots · Feb 13, 2006, 11:32 AM

Props to spliff for getting the inside scoop.

And in my hunters safety classes, it was stressed that you never pull the trigger unless you KNOW what you're shooting. Accidents happen. Both were at fault. Common sense says you don't walk up behind someone unannounced when they're about to shoot, at hunters' safety says you don't shoot unless you are absolutely certain.

Originally Posted by ambush

Did it mess up his face?

The report I heard said it looked like he had chicken pox.

OldManMac · Feb 13, 2006, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by MacNStein

A first lady who killed someone?

Really, are the Dems & Libs around here so desperate that they need to poke the VP over a hunting accident? This isn't even a story.

Almost everyone who hunts has gotten peppered before. Hell, I've been hit with bird shot on 2 occasions (but not in the face), and even though it doesn't feel good, it's hardly cause for alarm. I didn't even go to a doctor, just picked out the shot with tweezers and dowsed the area with some alcohol.

You need to find another sport to participate in or acquaintances with better aim.

http://borowitzreport.com/

CHENEY SAYS SHOOTING OF FELLOW HUNTER WAS BASED ON FAULTY INTELLIGENCE
Believed Shooting Victim Was Zawahiri, Veep Says
Vice President Dick Cheney revealed today that he shot a fellow hunter while on a quail hunting trip over the weekend because he believed the man was the fugitive terror mastermind Ayman al-Zawahiri.

Mr. Cheney acknowledged that the man he sprayed with pellets on Saturday was not al-Zawahiri but rather Harry Whittington, a 78-year-old millionaire lawyer from Austin, blaming the mix-up on “faulty intelligence.”

“I believed I had credible intelligence that al-Zawahiri had infiltrated my hunting party in disguise with the intent of spraying me with pellets,” Mr. Cheney told reporters. “Only after I shot Harry in the face and he shouted ‘Cheney, you bastard’ did I realize that this intelligence was faulty.”

Moments after Mr. Cheney’s assault on Mr. Whittington, Mr. al-Zawahiri appeared in a new videotape broadcast on al-Jazeera to announce that he was uninjured in the vice president’s attack because, in his words, “I was in Pakistan.”

An aide to the vice president said he believed that the American people would believe Mr. Cheney’s version of events, but added, “If he was going to shoot any of his cronies right now it’s a shame it wasn’t Jack Abramoff.”

At the White House, President George W. Bush defended his vice president’s shooting of a fellow hunter, saying that the attack sent “a strong message to terrorists everywhere.”

“The message is, if Dick Cheney is willing to shoot an innocent American citizen at point-blank range, imagine what he’ll do to you,” Mr. Bush said.

Elsewhere, aviator Steve Fossett completed his three-day journey around the globe, setting a world record for wasting both time and money.

Krusty · Feb 13, 2006, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by MacNStein

A first lady who killed someone?

Yeah, ran a stop sign in 1963. Crash killed her boyfriend driving the car she ran in to (not murder of course, total accident .... but yes, she has killed someone).

Shaddim · Feb 13, 2006, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Krusty

Yeah, ran a stop sign in 1963. Crash killed her boyfriend driving the car she ran in to (not murder of course, total accident .... but yes, she has killed someone).

Then it isn't an issue at all is it? However, it doesn't stop the Left from being complete scumbags.

Perhaps one day you'll kill someone in that fashion (no doubt severely tramatizing you), and it'll get thrown up in your face 40 years later. That would be fun wouldn't it? A real riot. Maybe you'll show as much grace as she has?

Shaddim · Feb 13, 2006, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by KarlG

You need to find another sport to participate in or acquaintances with better aim.

I was waiting for a foolish comment like this, usually it's from people that regularly jump to conclusions.

Neither time was it the group I was hunting with, it was shot from hunters who were out of our field of vision. Lots of hills around here, and it's not easy to see more than 30 yards around you in some areas.

wolfen · Feb 13, 2006, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by euchomai

What does morality and an accident have to do with each other here? Ghandi could have accidently done something and it wouldn't have affected his morality.

Yes, but if Ghandi had gotten drunk and driven down the freeway, I think we could agree morals were compromised.

Likewise, if I'm shooting my gun into the woods -- at a low enough angle that could hit someone reasonably close -- and I don't know where my buddy is. That's negligent. I highly doubt the vice president would be brought up on charges or anything. I mean, it's not like he's black or anything.

wolfen · Feb 13, 2006, 12:19 PM

And yes, I'm being intentionally trollish because I'm bored at work. So nyah!

Shaddim · Feb 13, 2006, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by wolfen

Yes, but if Ghandi had gotten drunk and driven down the freeway, I think we could agree morals were compromised.

Likewise, if I'm shooting my gun into the woods -- at a low enough angle that could hit someone reasonably close -- and I don't know where my buddy is. That's negligent. I highly doubt the vice president would be brought up on charges or anything. I mean, it's not like he's black or anything.

Actually, increasing the angle makes it more likely to hit someone. Shot can travel quite a distance... feels like getting stung by a dozen bees, all at one time.

Krusty · Feb 13, 2006, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Then it isn't an issue at all is it? However, it doesn't stop the Left from being complete scumbags.

Perhaps one day you'll kill someone in that fashion (no doubt severely tramatizing you), and it'll get thrown up in your face 40 years later. That would be fun wouldn't it? A real riot. Maybe you'll show as much grace as she has?

Whoa buddy, get your panties out of a twist. I could give a rats @ss about Laura Bush and the accident she was involved in 42 years ago. It's been known about for years and nobody on "the Left" has been making any sort issue out of it --- it WAS just a tragic accident. But you ASKED the question --

Originally Posted by MacNStein

A first lady who killed someone?

--- WTF sort of response were you looking for by asking that question ? I just Googled it for you and picked a benign article from a conservative news source so you could know the story. You have a long history of crapping on touchy-feely "crybaby" posts by "the Left" but your comeback on this one sounds like something straight off Oprah Winfrey

iomatic · Feb 13, 2006, 12:39 PM

So you're saying she didn't kill someone? Or are you saying, because she killed someone the Left is full of wackos?

WTF are you talking about? Do you even know how to draw a conclusion based on logic? Sounds like only one person is getting politically up-in-arms (hehe) about this issue (that'd be you).

Look, the point is both parties are at risk (they both have guns in the woods), so both parties are liable. Stop whining about how Cheney is innocent because he's a Republican already. As if that's carte blanche to run around shooting someone… oh, wait, it is…

In case you didn't notice, I'm adding some more smileys so you don't get your panties in a bunch with that nasty Right-wing vitriol (which is marginally worse than Left-wing vitriol).

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Then it isn't an issue at all is it? However, it doesn't stop the Left from being complete scumbags.

Perhaps one day you'll kill someone in that fashion (no doubt severely tramatizing you), and it'll get thrown up in your face 40 years later. That would be fun wouldn't it? A real riot. Maybe you'll show as much grace as she has?

Shaddim · 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by Krusty

Whoa buddy, get your panties out of a twist. I could give a rats @ss about Laura Bush and the accident she was involved in 42 years ago. It's been known about for years and nobody on "the Left" has been making any sort issue out of it --- it WAS just a tragic accident. But you ASKED the question --

--- WTF sort of response were you looking for by asking that question ? I just Googled it for you and picked a benign article from a conservative news source so you could know the story. You have a long history of crapping on touchy-feely "crybaby" posts by "the Left" but your comeback on this one sounds like something straight off Oprah Winfrey

God, how pathetic. Shove the blame on me because one of your partisans (PookJP) said:

"So now we have a President who did coke and was an alcoholic, a first lady who killed someone, a first daughter with a certain booze and pill affinity, and a Vice President who's shot a man. Not bad!"

Teach your rabid Liberal dogs some manners, boyo.

Shaddim · Feb 13, 2006, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by iomatic

So you're saying she didn't kill someone? Or are you saying, because she killed someone the Left is full of wackos?

WTF are you talking about? Do you even know how to draw a conclusion based on logic? Sounds like only one person is getting politically up-in-arms (hehe) about this issue (that'd be you).

Look, the point is both parties are at risk (they both have guns in the woods), so both parties are liable. Stop whining about how Cheney is innocent because he's a Republican already. As if that's carte blanche to run around shooting someone… oh, wait, it is…

In case you didn't notice, I'm adding some more smileys so you don't get your panties in a bunch with that nasty Right-wing vitriol (which is marginally worse than Left-wing vitriol).

I'm saying you guys are worthless POS for dragging the First Lady's tragedy into an unrelated subject. Is that hard to understand? Maybe I can draw you a picture?

I don't care if it were Kerry shooting someone on a hunting trip, it's of no consequence, big deal. If you've been bird hunting, then you've been peppered with shot. It happens to almost everyone.

ambush · Feb 13, 2006, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Then it isn't an issue at all is it? However, it doesn't stop the Left from being complete scumbags.

Perhaps one day you'll kill someone in that fashion (no doubt severely tramatizing you), and it'll get thrown up in your face 40 years later. That would be fun wouldn't it? A real riot. Maybe you'll show as much grace as she has?

I hope Alex Grey sues you for using his art. Or Tool for that matter.
And stop peeing... oops, picking on people!

PookJP · Feb 13, 2006, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by MacNStein

God, how pathetic. Shove the blame on me because one of your partisans (PookJP) said:

"So now we have a President who did coke and was an alcoholic, a first lady who killed someone, a first daughter with a certain booze and pill affinity, and a Vice President who's shot a man. Not bad!"

Teach your rabid Liberal dogs some manners, boyo.

You're not doing too well in this thread when it comes to thoroughness. If you'd read 2 posts on, you'd have seen:

Originally Posted by PookJP

Aah, just having a bit of fun with perceptions. In reality (though this is a very different conversation), I essentially have no linkage between substance usage and moral character. I believe the two function independently; there are awful people who are sober, wonderful people who are users, and every combination within and reversed.

The Cheney thing is just funny. It's a good case of something being effectively independent of actual character, yet being amusingly appropriate all the same. We all know Cheney is an evil blood sucking baby eater, we just didn't ever expect to see him wear it on his sleeve to this extent.

You might consider compiling a complete intelligence report before launching a war, my friend. Just do us all a favor and don't leap on the "blood sucking baby eater" comment because we won't believe your sense of sarcasm/humor/not being totally serious is that dysfunctional.

OldManMac · Feb 13, 2006, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by MacNStein

I was waiting for a foolish comment like this, usually it's from people that regularly jump to conclusions.

Neither time was it the group I was hunting with, it was shot from hunters who were out of our field of vision. Lots of hills around here, and it's not easy to see more than 30 yards around you in some areas.

If you don't know where your bullet/pellets are going, and the terrain you're in, you shouldn't be shooting. There is no excuse for shooting something, unless you know what you're shooting. Shooting a weapon requires the utmost in care and knowledge of safety.I was waiting for a foolish answer like yours.

Shaddim · Feb 13, 2006, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by ambush

I hope Alex Grey sues you for using his art. Or Tool for that matter.
And stop peeing... oops, picking on people!

Sue me? Really? If you knew the facts behind that, you'd realize how silly that comment is.

Shaddim · Feb 13, 2006, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by KarlG

If you don't know where your bullet/pellets are going, and the terrain you're in, you shouldn't be shooting. There is no excuse for shooting something, unless you know what you're shooting. Shooting a weapon requires the utmost in care and knowledge of safety.I was waiting for a foolish answer like yours.

Dude, quit being so moronic. Just ask a few bird hunters, they'll tell you the same. If you hunt quail, pheasant, dove, etc. at some point you will get peppered. It's just a fact. Sometimes it's just a harmless spray, similar to sleet, but other times it can sting (or even hurt like hell), depending on the distance. If you don't want that to happen to you, don't go bird hunting. FYI.

ambush · Feb 13, 2006, 02:49 PM

Sorry, I just don,t get how a republican/ring wing guy might encourage/like LSD inspired art.

PookJP · Feb 13, 2006, 02:50 PM

I can totally see where MacNStein is coming from; it's not like it's a hard trade-off. You simply CAN'T let a quail get away. You CAN'T! That's just preposterous. It's a QUAIL, for God's sake.

Furthermore, other hunters absolutely should know what you're doing at all times, regardless of whether they're in ear-shot. I mean, come on, they're HUNTERS! That's what they do! They predict what other hunters will do! It's their responsibility to not get shot by you.

And finally, it's obviously worth the risk to shoot a hunter to stop the escape of an evil QUAIL! You can't just go around making sure you're not going to shoot humans if a quail is getting away! It's got to be brought to justice!

Shaddim · Feb 13, 2006, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by PookJP

You're not doing too well in this thread when it comes to thoroughness. If you'd read 2 posts on, you'd have seen:

You might consider compiling a complete intelligence report before launching a war, my friend. Just do us all a favor and don't leap on the "blood sucking baby eater" comment because we won't believe your sense of sarcasm/humor/not being totally serious is that dysfunctional.

Yes, I saw your retraction (backpeddling), but the fact is, it shouldn't have even been mentioned in the first place. Just shows how cold and vicious some posters around here truly are. Can you feel the compassion oozing from the Dems/Libs, or is that just more warm yogurt being splashed on our backs?

PookJP · Feb 13, 2006, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Yes, I saw your retraction (backpeddling), but the fact is, it shouldn't have even been mentioned in the first place. Just shows how cold and vicious some posters around here truly are. Can you feel the compassion oozing from the Dems/Libs, or is that just more warm yogurt being splashed on our backs?

Get your terms right... it's called FLIP FLOPPING, and it's one of the deadly sins. The only pure people are those born with the same opinions with which they die. Any deviation from original opinions is cause for macroscopic character inditement.

ironknee · Feb 13, 2006, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Then it isn't an issue at all is it? However, it doesn't stop the Left from being complete scumbags.

Perhaps one day you'll kill someone in that fashion (no doubt severely tramatizing you), and it'll get thrown up in your face 40 years later. That would be fun wouldn't it? A real riot. Maybe you'll show as much grace as she has?

fanboy,
hey we all killed someone 41 years ago...big deal! a lot of people have killed...woop di do! who cares?

Shaddim · Feb 13, 2006, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by ambush

Sorry, I just don,t get how a republican/ring wing guy might encourage/like LSD inspired art.

Maybe because I'm not "a republican/ring wing guy", whatever that means. In my life I've voted Democrat or Libertarian far more than I've voted Republican.

Shaddim · Feb 13, 2006, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by PookJP

Get your terms right... it's called FLIP FLOPPING, and it's one of the deadly sins. The only pure people are those born with the same opinions with which they die. Any deviation from original opinions is cause for macroscopic character inditement.

Good, I'm glad you agree.

(getting bored now....)

Shaddim · Feb 13, 2006, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by ironknee

fanboy,
hey we all killed someone 41 years ago...big deal! a lot of people have killed...woop di do! who cares?

Remember, you don't need to lead the slower ones quite as much. In Cheney's case (given his target was 78) he probably didn't need to at all.

olePigeon · Feb 13, 2006, 05:16 PM

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Yo-ho m' maties!

davesimondotcom · Feb 13, 2006, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by PookJP

So now we have a President who did coke and was an alcoholic, a first lady who killed someone, a first daughter with a certain booze and pill affinity, and a Vice President who's shot a man. Not bad!

Laura Bush killed someone? Or are you referring to the former First Lady/Senator?

Chuckit · Feb 13, 2006, 06:41 PM

Laura Bush killed someone in a car accident.

ironknee · Feb 13, 2006, 06:44 PM

she also sold weed...anyone have her beeper?

Spliffdaddy · Feb 13, 2006, 07:18 PM

Bleh. Her story is kinda dull. She wasn't even drinking.

Now, Ted Kennedy's story is a *lot* better. It had all the makings of a Stephen King novel.

grayware · Feb 13, 2006, 07:36 PM

There's another very sad aspect underlying this event. Seems they were shooting pen-raised birds. 500 weak, captive birds were released and 417 were killed.

Fne sportsmen you all are.

http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/2/13/102651/199

ambush · Feb 13, 2006, 08:07 PM

I want to have some "George Bush" coke. Anyone?

ebuddy · Feb 13, 2006, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by wolfen

Reasonably good health? That's why he has a team of medical personnel with him ON A HUNTING TRIP?! "Well, the heart attack was mild, but in the excitement he blew somebody away" is not an altogether "unreasonable" outcome here.

What are you talking about?!? Yes, he's in reasonably good health and that's why he's ON A HUNTING TRIP!!! He has a team of medical professionals because he is the VP OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!! ( who like many his age, has had a heart attack. I realize you may believe this constitutes a case for euthanasia, others may feel like continuing to enjoy their lives if that's okay with you.) C'mon wolfen, try to follow along brother.

"When you do anything unannounced..."

Ok, so Cheney SHOULD have declared "I am now going to shoot you in the face!" Or even just "I'm shooting" or how about "Dude, where the fk ARE you?!" How about lettin' one quail go until you can find your friend?! Hmm? Good idea?

Whittington was the one who failed to announce his presence. Did you even read the frappin' story DUDE?!? See, that's why they call them accidents. Have you ever been in an accident? Are you absolutely perfect behind the wheel of your car? Try to put the bib of partisanship away and work on controlling the slobber problem in the first place.

You can talk hunter safety all you want, I'm talking morality and personal responsibility.

spoken from the one who really hasn't established he's taken the personal responsibility of reading comprehension. When you're perfect I'll entertain your notion of what it takes to be perfect. Until then, I'm going to continue assuming you're a disgruntled oven-tender at the local pizzaria. Don't take it personally, I'm just going off what you've provided as evidence of your level of understanding here.

If I got a gun in my hand, I know DAMN well where I'm shooting and what I'm shooting at. And if I Do Not see my buddy, I don't shoot the fkin' trigger.

And yes, I've been on shooting parties in the woods.

How many times have you gone to shooting parties there big guy? Do they laugh real hard at you when you refer to it as "shooting the trigger"???

ya know it's one thing to be kind of numb and opinionated, it's another thing entirely to outright lie.

End of story.

that's for damn sure!

himself · Feb 13, 2006, 09:41 PM

daaaamn... Cheney is definitely gansta...

himself · Feb 13, 2006, 09:42 PM

...but he ain't military.

ironknee · Feb 13, 2006, 10:25 PM

oh, now we hear the cheney didn't buy a $7 hunting stamp

funny headlines:
See Dick, run!
Cheney's got a gun

Shoots, Hides and Leaves

Dick Cheney shoots hunter in the face with pellet gun i just like this...not funny

Kerrigan · Feb 13, 2006, 10:38 PM

This is sad news.

My thoughts and prayers go out to their families.

PookJP · Feb 13, 2006, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

My thoughts and prayers go out to their families.

The cause for his recovery: discovered!

ironknee · Feb 13, 2006, 11:16 PM

lighten up kerrigan, he "only got sprayed"...damn liberal media!

davesimondotcom · Feb 13, 2006, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

This is sad news.

My thoughts and prayers go out to their families.

WDLove??

I didn't know about Laura Bush's tragic 1962 accident. That sucks.

As far as this, it is an accident.

Chuckit · Feb 13, 2006, 11:19 PM

"Sprayed" does make buckshot in your face sound more pleasant.

davesimondotcom · 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

"Sprayed" does make buckshot in your face sound more pleasant.

Birdshot, not buckshot... there is a difference. And that difference is the fact that this guy is alive.

Birdshot sizes at the top, steelshot in the middle, buckshot at the bottom.

iLikebeer · Feb 13, 2006, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by grayware

There's another very sad aspect underlying this event. Seems they were shooting pen-raised birds. 500 weak, captive birds were released and 417 were killed.

Fne sportsmen you all are.

http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/2/13/102651/199

I just go to grocery store and I get a tasty, ready to cook already killed animal everytime. At Cheney's age, yeah, it is a bit more sporting. How was that chicken you had the other day? Hypocrit. If you're a veggie, sorryish.

Fire Of Zim · Feb 13, 2006, 11:44 PM

...

ironknee · Feb 14, 2006, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

"Sprayed" does make buckshot in your face sound more pleasant.

oops sorry ment peppered

corvus32 · Feb 14, 2006, 12:53 AM

I only caught only limited clips from the cable outlets today about this, but both MSNBC and CNN used 12 gauge buckshot shells as examples.

Yeah, that's what they using. That's it wear those j-school colors with pride.

OldManMac · 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Dude, quit being so moronic. Just ask a few bird hunters, they'll tell you the same. If you hunt quail, pheasant, dove, etc. at some point you will get peppered. It's just a fact. Sometimes it's just a harmless spray, similar to sleet, but other times it can sting (or even hurt like hell), depending on the distance. If you don't want that to happen to you, don't go bird hunting. FYI.

Dude, quit being so moronic. You can spin this six ways from sundown, but he screwed up, period. Just because the people you hunt with aren't careful, or because, according to you, you're going to get peppered if you hunt bird, doesn't excuse carelessness, period.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/200...D8FOLFP02.html

"Vice President Dick Cheney apparently broke the No. 1 rule of hunting: Be sure of what you're shooting at. He also violated Texas game law by failing to buy a hunting stamp.
Cheney wounded fellow hunter Harry Whittington in the face, neck and chest Saturday, apparently because he didn't see Whittington approaching as he fired on a covey of quail in Texas.
Hunting safety experts interviewed Monday agreed it would have been a good idea for Whittington to announce himself - something he apparently didn't do, according to a witness. But they stressed that the shooter is responsible for avoiding other people.
"It's incumbent upon the shooter to assess the situation and make sure it's a safe shot," said Mark Birkhauser, president-elect of the International Hunter Education Association and hunter education coordinator in New Mexico. "Once you squeeze that trigger, you can't bring that shot back."

Here's something for you to try. Since this is only on the internet, it might save you from getting "peppered" by your obviously "expert" friends.

http://dickcheneyquailhunt.cf.huffingtonpost.com/