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Mac Pro advancement & Snow Leopard
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danviento
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Oct 7, 2008, 04:11 PM
 
In my considering to buy a Mac Pro, which I know I will at some point, i've come across benchmarking studies that show no significant improvement in using 2 quad-core processors versus just one considering the applications I use. However, then I remembered a snippet concerning the "Grand Central" feature in the upcoming release of Snow Leopard. You can find an explanation here:

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/0...-snow-leopard/

With this in mind even current software could have a better route for leveraging all of those cores, providing you have enough memory to support the additional routing.

Now the question becomes, should I opt for more cores at slight additional cost, counting on the viability of Apple's claims about its upcoming OS, or perhaps wait? I consider waiting because in the time between now and rumored release dates (Jan or Jun of '09) I'd expect Intel to do something to leap ahead in processing power.

My wariness probably stems from the purchase of my current machine- I bought a 17" PowerBook, and not 4 months later did the first intel-based MacBookPro come out. Since I must use AutoCAD, that would have definitely been worth the wait instead of being stuck with the abysmally slow VPC emulation environment (as opposed to Parallels).

I don't think we'll be seeing a major architecture change in the Mac Pro any time soon, especially not one that would have made such a big difference in one of my areas of work. However, it would be nice not to have to buy a copy of Snow Leopard, and have lower up-front costs for memory, storage, etc.

Not considering any other factors, what would be your move? Go for it soon thinking there won't be any hardware advancements worth waiting for, or wait it out and get a better deal on processing power?
     
grover432
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Oct 7, 2008, 05:18 PM
 
I think there will be advancements early in the New Year> I too got caught in the changeover from the G5 iMac to the intel iMac. I can`t use software designed to work with HD digital video cameras because I don`t have an intel processor.

My take is this: If you are a pro who depends on your computer to make a living an dtime is money, then buy now. If you (like me) are an amateur but want to have the most horsepower for the money and want a new computer - try and embrace the concept of deferred gratification and wait to see what Apple comes out with next in the Mac Pro line. I can assure you it will be faster and even if it isn`t a quantam leap forward, it will definitely be less expensive.

Having said all of that, maybe the current Mac Pro is really all you will need and the 15 seconds a new one wil save you here and there isn`t worth having to wait if your current computer is making you pull your hair out.
     
danviento  (op)
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Oct 8, 2008, 01:49 AM
 
And that's just the issue here- Right now I'm trying to make a business out of my photography work, but working on my old machine just takes *forever.* For example, I'm finishing up a 98 page wedding album in Aperture right this very moment. I'd put money on this having taken me over 10x longer than I otherwise would have because I'm having to wait on programs to catch up to my changes. I can't just blast through images and flick through changes because even with my current machine maxed-out, changes that would be instantaneous take a few seconds or many more to put down. That kind of waiting eats into how much you can actually sit through to do, and how much sleep I can get.

Also, at this point when I'm recording and mastering in Logic Pro, I'm really limited on the number of tracks and effects I can use. Audio input recordings cut out after so long, and even bouncing tracks doesn't help all that much in recording or when I want to do composition work for notation. Again, computer hardware limitations (I'm set on everything else) turn me off to how much I really try to put into music. I've been considering putting together a cohesive album to post via TuneCore, but it just doesn't feel up to par when you can't take it as far as you want.

And for freelance design/consultation work, yeah I can get it done on my machine, but my PB with VirtualPC feels unusable compared to my CAD workstation at my main vocation. Granted, I'm not working with the complex hospital construction document files with dozens of xrefs and hundreds of layers, but even simple drawing drag.

My situation has me teetering. I have a need to get some extra work, and doing freelance work in slow increments has impressed what few clients I've had so far. There's plenty of room to grow in all of these directions, but I'm torn between making a possible business investment and saving for some upcoming big financed items.

I was hoping for someone to post some informed guesses on what we can expect from Intel and Apple in terms of hardware upgrades and Leopard release dates. That might give me enough info to decide between "buy now," and, "wait and see," or, "heh, wait a few years and save money for the mortgage down payment."

(FYI: the housing market is *really* good for first-time home buyers right now; providing you have enough for a down payment and decent credit.)
( Last edited by danviento; Oct 8, 2008 at 01:50 AM. Reason: grammar correction)
     
Big Mac
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Oct 8, 2008, 03:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by danviento View Post
My wariness probably stems from the purchase of my current machine- I bought a 17" PowerBook, and not 4 months later did the first intel-based MacBookPro come out.
I feel your pain, but there are a number of sites online devoted to telling you what's coming down the pike, and it wasn't exactly a secret that Apple would be shipping Intel based laptops when you bought your PowerBook. You should look at sites like macrumors.com and appleinsider.com and get familiar with the trends.

My recommendation to you is definitely to wait. There is a major advancement to the Intel Core processor family that we've known about for a couple of years now codenamed Nahalem. Mac Pros based on it should be out by March of next year at the latest, unless Intel experiences some unusual issues with production. If you buy now you'll feel burned again. The best time to buy a computer is shortly after its introduction, in order to maximize the technological "freshness" of your purchase.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
tooki
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Oct 8, 2008, 11:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by danviento View Post
And that's just the issue here- Right now I'm trying to make a business out of my photography work, but working on my old machine just takes *forever.* For example, I'm finishing up a 98 page wedding album in Aperture right this very moment. I'd put money on this having taken me over 10x longer than I otherwise would have because I'm having to wait on programs to catch up to my changes. I can't just blast through images and flick through changes because even with my current machine maxed-out, changes that would be instantaneous take a few seconds or many more to put down. That kind of waiting eats into how much you can actually sit through to do, and how much sleep I can get.
Sounds to me like you'd benefit right now. Actually, I know you would! In March I upgraded from a PowerBook G4 to a Mac Pro, to a large degree because Aperture was absolutely painful on the G4.

Aperture runs magnificently on the Mac Pro. But that said, relatively few operations in Aperture use all 8 cores. Exporting does: it'll work on 8 (or 4 or 2, depending on the system) images at once. Same with processing thumbnails and whatnot. But the everyday performance in Aperture is great on a 2-core system. Things like browsing and making adjustments are just as snappy on a 24" iMac.

So if you do want a system for the long term, go with the Mac Pro. The current models are great, but if you can wait, do that. Just bear in mind that so far, historically, the Mac Pros get updated less frequently than the consumer models, so you may be waiting a while. If you can't wait, and don't want to spring for a Mac Pro now, get a 24" iMac with 4GB of RAM, a large hard disk, and the stock ATI graphics card (don't upgrade to the nVidia, it's slower for Aperture!). Aperture will act just as snappy on it, only exports and the like will take a tad longer than on the Mac Pro.
     
danviento  (op)
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Oct 8, 2008, 04:23 PM
 
I never thought I'd find all of this info in one place:

http://guides.macrumors.com/Intel_Mo...lem_.2845nm.29

The "one we're waiting for" has the following details,

"Nehalem (45 nm) — Q3 2009

Fits in Calpella Chipset
Features (rumored):
*Intel Quick Path Interconnect: Nehalem processors will utilize a new point-to-point processor interconnect called the Intel QuickPath Interconnect. This replaces the outdated FSBs which Intel has been using for many years and directly connect the RAM to the CPU
*HyperThreading: Each core has two threads which means a quad-core Nehalem CPU would have eight virtual cores
*Scalable Processing ability: The Nehalem CPU is apparently able to utilize as few or as many cores as needed for the tasks and programming infrastructure it has to process. This means that if a program is not optimized to use multiple cores (very common) then the cores that are being used could be overclocked and the other cores could be underclocked to remain within the heat specifications of the CPU. This would be the first truly scalable Intel processor.
*On-Die Cache Controller
*L1, L2, and L3 Cache
*Possible on board graphics controller

Intel considers Nehalem the most dramatic change in Intel microarchitecture since the Pentium Pro in 1996

The two processors (rumored) to be introduced in Q3 2009 are:
*Auburnsdale: Dual-Core, 4 MB L3 Cache, 35-45 W TDP, onboard GPU core
*Clarksfield: Quad-Core, 8 MB L3 Cache, 45-55 W TDP, no onboard GPU core
*Note that due to the different chipsets, the Nehalem processors have equivalent heat output to a Penryn processor 10 W less.
*It has been said that mobile Nehalem may be made on a 32 nm process, delivering higher performance for lower power consumption."

Something tells me that having the memory wired in directly with the "QuickPath Interconnect" is going to require special RAM modules. Anyone with some technical knowledge know something about this? Would this render the ability of switching out a current Mac Pro (Intel) processor our for a newer one later null?
     
Big Mac
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Oct 8, 2008, 05:33 PM
 
Even if the newer processor is pin-compatible with your existing logic board, it's usually not cost effective to swap processors. I recommend waiting because you'll be crestfallen when the new ones come out if you buy now.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
SierraDragon
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Oct 9, 2008, 12:55 AM
 
Wait.

The new Nehalem chips from Intel this quarter are a nice advance; properly integrated into new boxes +50% performance improvements may be seen for heavy apps. However, existing 2006 and 2008 MPs remain excellent towers and Aperture/CS3 platforms so at this moment there is no overwhelming need for new MPs.

Since laptops are where the money is laptops will get Apple's primary Q4 2008 attention, and iMacs are just a subset of laptop engineering. IMO there is not a lot of pressure for Apple to rush to release new MPs. Q4 2008 is possible but IMO Q1 2009 is more likely, and (depending on how bad Apple sees the economy as well as how Snow Leopard and new MPs integrate) Q2 2009 is even possible.

We do not know what your apps on a new MP will like to eat the most: RAM? Cores? Clock Cycles? VRAM? New Box Architecture? New Chip Architecture? OS 10.6? etc. For geeks like me it is a fun time to watch empirical performance comparisons as the new tools become available.

IMO January (Mac Expo SF) and OS 10.6 is the earliest that anyone with a currently good working system should consider upgrading to Mac Pro - - - unless a 2006 MP deal is too good to pass up .

-Allen Wicks
     
   
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