[The Final Dakar]

Exaggeration, yes (I'll explain better later). But the past few days have seen vaccination talk hit fever pitch, with some visible dividing lines. While the issue seems to have originated from the hippy, au naturel liberal side of the spectrum, the past few days have seen the personal freedom or religious freedom conservative side of spectrum jump in, triggering actual politicians speaking out. Add in the anti-science angle of the unproven vaccines = autism logic, and you've got the recipe for a split. The question is, is this real conviction or political opportunism/contrarianism? Probably the latter.

Chris Christie

“I also understand that parents need to have some measure of choice in things as well, so that’s the balance that the government has to decide.”

Rand Paul

"I've heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking, normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines," Paul said. "I'm not arguing vaccines are a bad idea. I think they're a good thing. But I think the parents should have some input."

Interestingly, conservative fav Ben Carson, who I've disagreed with on pretty much everything, weighed in thusly:

“Although I strongly believe in individual rights and the rights of parents to raise their children as they see fit, I also recognize that public health and public safety are extremely important in our society,” Carson told The Hill. “Certain communicable diseases have been largely eradicated by immunization policies in this country and we should not allow those diseases to return by foregoing safe immunization programs, for philosophical, religious or other reasons when we have the means to eradicate them.”

Which shouldn't be surprising considering he is a freakin' doctor.

Joseph McCarthy impersonator Ted Cruz had positive things to say:

“Most states include an exception clause for good faith religious convictions, and that’s an appropriate judgment for the states to make,” he said. “But on the question of whether kids should be vaccinated, the answer is obvious and there’s widespread agreement: Of course they should.”

Bobby Jindal

"It is irresponsible for leaders to undermine the public's confidence in vaccinations that have been tested and proven to protect public health. Science supports them and they keep our children safe."

Marco Rubio

"Unless they are immune suppressed for medical exceptions, but I believe all children should be vaccinated," Rubio said following a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on Cuba, which he chaired.

"Absolutely, all children in America should be vaccinated," he added.

It's probably nothing, but I'll have some popcorn at the ready in case some other tea partiers/libertarians feel the need to take a stand.

[BadKosh]

Imus in the morning/Imus wife was all over this before his last firing.

[Chongo]

Jenny McCarthy and Robert Kennedy are the ring leaders.

[The Final Dakar]

Well, Paul is already backing off...
Rand Paul and 'temporal' relationships | MSNBC

Paul attempted to clarify his comments in a statement Tuesday, saying, “I did not say vaccines caused disorders, just that they were temporally related – I did not allege causation.

We may be watching an aborted partisan issue.

[Chongo]

What RFK was saying was the cause, the perservitave Thimerosal, has for the most part been phased out. The only vaccine I know that has it is for the flu, and you can ask for non perservitave ones.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

I see much more of this shit from the Greenies than the GOP.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

I see much more of this shit from the Greenies than the GOP.

That's what makes the issue so fascinating. On a popular or local level, it's a flaming nutter liberal concern. But somehow on the national scene, we're seeing some try to turn it into a freedom/religious concern. So much so that the people arguing against vaccines are self-proclaiming that they use them. They're basically talking out of both sides of their mouths.

[subego]

Okay... I'm going to ask the nasty (and perhaps dumbass) questions which need to get asked.

If you don't vaccinate your kid against X, does this harm society at large in any tangible way?

There's a measles outbreak. This is only going to affect people who aren't vaccinated, right?

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

There's a measles outbreak. This is only going to affect people who aren't vaccinated, right?

Some people aren't vaccinated because of immune system problems, though, not because of religious or bad science reasons. They are the victims in this.

[subego]

Fair enough.

Though I'm reminded of Louis C.K. and "of course... but maybe".

"Of course we should keep peanuts away because of allergies. Of course. Of course.

But maybe... if touching a peanut kills you, you're supposed to die."

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

Though I'm reminded of Louis C.K. and "of course... but maybe".

"Of course we should keep peanuts away because of allergies. Of course. Of course.

But maybe... if touching a peanut kills you, you're supposed to die."

Do I really need to say this retarded? Because this is retarded.

[subego]

I do believe the point was to elicit a chuckle, not propose sound policy.

[The Final Dakar]

Sometimes comedians have a habit of proposing good solutions while being funny. I couldn't be sure.

[subego]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Sometimes comedians have a habit of proposing good solutions while being funny. I couldn't be sure.

No... it's about how even if one believes they should do the right thing, evil still has a certain satisfying elegance.

[The Final Dakar]

Evil? I took it as survival of the fittest.

[subego]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Evil? I took it as survival of the fittest.

Proposing literal survival of the fittest as policy sounds pretty evil to me.

[The Final Dakar]

This isn't a productive discussion. I've never properly hashed out what I consider evil or if its a valid term at all.

[Waragainstsleep]

I know exactly what you mean by this thread. It feels very much like it could become a partisan issue. It shouldn't of course, but when you mix one part anti-science, one part stupid and one part minor infringement of freedom, you have the makings of GOP campaign rhetoric for sure.

Obama wants to give all your babies autism-cancer-aids because freedom! Derp.

[Mike Wuerthele]

To me, the issue is pretty clear. Vaccinate your kids, unless there's a VALID, BACKED BY ACTUAL SCIENCE REASON why you shouldn't, AND AN ARRAY OF DOCTORS AGREES WITH YOU.

Vaccines save lives.

That said, people telling you that vaccines are 100% safe are selectively reading the literature, and I'm completely dismissing Wakefield.

[Waragainstsleep]

Nothing is 100% safe, but like you say unless there is a medical reason, you are much safer vaccinated than not and more importantly everyone else is safer with you vaccinated.

[The Final Dakar]

Well, it made it into the GOP debate last night. Donald Trump, of course, was sympathetic to the concept that they cause autism.
(I say of course because he's so unpredictable)

[Waragainstsleep]

I already knew he had a lean in that direction. I have heard sound semi-reasonable on the subject, i.e. expressing skepticism/concern but I think he is really just a another anti-vac loon and trying to tone it down a little.

I'd like to think this is still an issue where the vast majority of both sides still agree that anti-vaxxers are idiots.

[BadKosh]

OLD OLD Topic. Imus in the morning's WIFE has been blathering about this since at least 1993.. It got national air for decades.