[m a d r a]

well, mac and windows in all their flavours are basically american operating systems and i read a while back that the chinese are apparently developing their own operating system built on top of linux. so isn't it about time us europeans got our act together and started work on a european built operating system?

i'd hate to think when the third world war breaks out in 2046 , we'll be taking on the US and china using technology powered by sinclair, amstrad or BBC basic.

[TETENAL]

Linux doesn't count as European?

[m a d r a]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Linux doesn't count as European?

i know linus torvalds is finnish, but he lives in the US and presumably spawned linux there - which makes it american in my book.

[although i'm prepared to be corrected on this]

[TETENAL]

From wikipedia (fwiw):

Torvalds attended the University of Helsinki from 1988 to 1996, graduating with a master's degree in computer science. He wrote his M.Sc. thesis, titled Linux: A Portable Operating System, on Linux.

[badidea]

Where are the US lightbulbs???? You want to have light in WWIII, don't you?

[jcadam]

meh. Linux is a clone of UNIX. An undeniably American OS. Y'all had better start coding.

All of your good Computer Scientists were German. And we brought them (and their genes) to the US after WWII.

[effgee]

WW III?
2046?
Taking on the US and the Chinese?

Here's a movie quote for you: "You're a bright young man Madras - but you really need to lay off the sauce."

[m a d r a]

Originally Posted by effgee

WW III?
2046?
Taking on the US and the Chinese?

Here's a movie quote for you: "You're a bright young man Madras - but you really need to lay off the sauce."

OK - it might be 2047. my crystal ball hasnae been recalibrated in a while

[paul w]

BeOS? Otherwise nothing's more European than original iMacs and 9.2 running in 2005!

[Kerrigan]

Linux is used everywhere in Europe. At my university in UK, it seems like most of our computers are linux. And all of the crazy comp-sci majors I know use some flavour of linux.

I hear though that the turkish are developing a great operating system KebabX which could qualify as european.

[davesimondotcom]

Gasee is French, but the BeOS came from Menlo Park, CA, USA.

What does it matter though? Why should we balkanize based on OS?

[crazeazn]

there will be no fighting in the war room!

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by crazeazn

there will be no fighting in the war room!

For the reference to one of my favorite (and one of the most quotable) movies of all time...

Ok, but if you don't get the President of the United States on that phone, you are going to have to deal with the Coca-Cola company!

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by m a d r a

so isn't it about time us europeans got our act together and started work on a european built operating system?

It is not only possible, it is essential.

[iNub]

Why on earth does it matter where an operating system is made? National pride?

[rjenkinson]

apparently, the australians have been hard at work at their own OS.

-r.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by m a d r a

where is the euro-OS?

What the heck is a Euro OS ?
What does it do differently ? Better ? Faster ?

-t

[:XI:]

Symbian has a British heritage. It used to be EPOC from Psion. There's our contribution.

[Super Mario]

I have your Euro OS right here programmed with intelligent design theory principles made in US.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by turtle777

What the heck is a Euro OS ?
What does it do differently ? Better ? Faster ?

-t

Less bloat

[kick52]

we did make Risc OS. it ran on the acorn. go to www.riscos.com

its the most stable OS ive ever ran

[ghporter]

I still don't get the point of a "eurocentric OS" in the first place. Who cares where the code was typed, or who compiled it? Does it run? Does it do the right thing with my localizations (time zones, currency, thousands separators, date format, etc.)? Are there weird political issues involved with the user license, or can I keep the bloody thing up to date without a visit from the government guys?

Linux has been written ALL OVER THE WORLD, and code in Linux is about as international as you can get. Microsoft has coders in many countries, including the UK and Continental Europe. So, for that matter, does Apple. So FREAKING what?

I really, really do not get the issue at all. Can someone explain this to me?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ghporter

I really, really do not get the issue at all. Can someone explain this to me?

I think the issue here is one of overinflated pride in US products and an attempt to mark the rest of the world as inferior...

-t

[Ghoser777]

Originally Posted by crazeazn

Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the war room!

Fixed.™

[OreoCookie]

Since many American software companies (including Apple) outsourced to China and India, are Windows and OS X now Chinese operating systems?

I don't get all the buzz about this what country an OS is from (I mean, how is it measured anyway)? In the worst worst worst case, all of Europe (and the rest of the world) can resort to Linux or one of the *BSD flavors. Especially Linux and NetBSD run on everything, from digital cameras, printers to workstations.

[willed]

What does Nokia use? That's got to be pretty prevelant by now. OK it's not a PC OS, but it's one of the most popular OS's in the world and is European.

[jcadam]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Since many American software companies (including Apple) outsourced to China and India, are Windows and OS X now Chinese operating systems?

I don't get all the buzz about this what country an OS is from (I mean, how is it measured anyway)? In the worst worst worst case, all of Europe (and the rest of the world) can resort to Linux or one of the *BSD flavors. Especially Linux and NetBSD run on everything, from digital cameras, printers to workstations.

In 10 years or so ALL software engineers working for U.S. companies will be from India.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by m a d r a

i know linus torvalds is finnish, but he lives in the US and presumably spawned linux there - which makes it american in my book.

[although i'm prepared to be corrected on this]

He was still a student in Finaland when Linux first became Linux (as opposed to his own little project to make his brand-spanking new 386 do what he wanted it to do).

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by willed

What does Nokia use? That's got to be pretty prevelant by now. OK it's not a PC OS, but it's one of the most popular OS's in the world and is European.

Nokia users Symbian, doesn't it? A linux-based OS. Also, I believe they've been working with Apple on some things.

[Eug Wanker]

2046 already belongs to the Chinese:

[m a d r a]

as the original poster, i'll say why i think it's either:

a. important that europe develops an OS
b. strange that europe hasn't developed an OS
[delete as appropriate]

pretty much everything is computer based these days and pretty much everything vaguely "modern" connects to, interfaces with or generally plays with the consumer's computer in some way or another. it just seems weird to me that the rest of the world [with the notable exception of china] seems content to rely on a handful of major US corporations to supply the OS that all these computers run.

it's a situation that no major industrialised nation [or "group of..." in europe's case] would feel comfortable with in any other area of technology; can you imagine if the US was the only nation building aeroplanes... or cars... or televisions? wouldn't the rest of us feel a bit uneasy about depending so heavily on another nation for these gizmos.

what if the US suddenly pulled the plug tomorrow and banned all software exports [AFAIK they're already banned to places like libya and north korea]? what would the rest of the world do then? OK - it's far-fetched but in theory it *could* happen.

i wasnae trying to make some jingoistic or yank-bashing point with the original post, i really am curious as to why in this particular field of technology, everyone else seems quite content to let the US have the entire market to itself, when there's so much competition everywhere else?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by m a d r a

what if the US suddenly pulled the plug tomorrow and banned all software exports [AFAIK they're already banned to places like libya and north korea]? what would the rest of the world do then? OK - it's far-fetched but in theory it *could* happen.

No, it can't happen ! Do you really think the software companies wouldn't lobby the heck out of the politicians ? You wouldn't believe how fast M$ would buy a new president !

The US is more interested in coin than anything else. If all software exports became illegal, all countries would feed of pirated software, but the US wouldn't see a dime for it. Not very realistic and clever scenario !

-t

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by jcadam

In 10 years or so ALL software engineers working for U.S. companies will be from India.

You're forgetting China
But Europe does the same thing, Siemens et al are not inkling better.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by m a d r a

as the original poster, i'll say why i think it's either:

a. important that europe develops an OS
b. strange that europe hasn't developed an OS
[delete as appropriate]

pretty much everything is computer based these days and pretty much everything vaguely "modern" connects to, interfaces with or generally plays with the consumer's computer in some way or another. it just seems weird to me that the rest of the world [with the notable exception of china] seems content to rely on a handful of major US corporations to supply the OS that all these computers run.

it's a situation that no major industrialised nation [or "group of..." in europe's case] would feel comfortable with in any other area of technology; can you imagine if the US was the only nation building aeroplanes... or cars... or televisions? wouldn't the rest of us feel a bit uneasy about depending so heavily on another nation for these gizmos.

what if the US suddenly pulled the plug tomorrow and banned all software exports [AFAIK they're already banned to places like libya and north korea]? what would the rest of the world do then? OK - it's far-fetched but in theory it *could* happen.

i wasnae trying to make some jingoistic or yank-bashing point with the original post, i really am curious as to why in this particular field of technology, everyone else seems quite content to let the US have the entire market to itself, when there's so much competition everywhere else?

If your point is that we (as in rest of the world and not Mac user) depend on an American-based company (Microsoft) for their OS, you got a point. But no other company (US-based or not) has not managed to establish an alternative (as in market share > 20-30 %). I think this monoculture is hurting the US as much as it hurts the rest of the world.

Your proposed scenario could not happen, as Bill Gates would personally kick a$$ in Washington. I don't think it would be pretty.

[JHromadka]

Does it matter what country the OS is from? Is there an OS Olympics that I don't know about?

[philm]

Originally Posted by turtle777

No, it can't happen ! Do you really think the software companies wouldn't lobby the heck out of the politicians ? You wouldn't believe how fast M$ would buy a new president !

I reckon it could happen in theory although not in practice. I think some of the encryption processes are not supposedly allowed for export. Didn't this get the PGP man in trouble. And I recall that some of the G4 (?) PowerMacs were 'so fast' they were classified as 'weapons' somehow and not allowed to be exported to countries not liked by the US government.

And the suggestion that Micrsoft could buy a President? A disgraceful suggestion. That's the job of the oil companies.

[ink]

Originally Posted by Super Mario

Less bloat

But it only works 32 hours a week.

[m a d r a]

Originally Posted by JHromadka

Does it matter what country the OS is from? Is there an OS Olympics that I don't know about?

it disnae matter per se - but i really am genuinely puzzled by this, as in all other areas of "hi tech" it seems that every "wannabe superpower" pursues an almost fanatical quest to prove that "we can build it ourselves"

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by m a d r a

it disnae matter per se - but i really am genuinely puzzled by this, as in all other areas of "hi tech" it seems that every "wannabe superpower" pursues an almost fanatical quest to prove that "we can build it ourselves"

In all other areas (I assume you mean physical goods), you can not just duplicate or copy them.

See the difference now ?

-t

[analogika]

Isn't the "building it ourselves" argument kind of a moot point when it's based off open-source code?

There aren't any national boundaries to who builds what in an open-source environment. The whole concept of locality, even or origin itself, becomes completely irrelevant, save with regard to fluency in the lingua franca, English.

[Doofy]

Hmmm... A Euro OS? No thanks. It'll be completely crap, the most restrictive OS on the planet and it'll probably direct link to your bank while you're not looking to siphon off some of your money into EU funds.

As for why it's not happening, I don't think there's much investment capital available for Euro software. The US VCs seem to give development deals to teenagers sitting in basements with half-finished code. Euro VCs don't want to know until your product is already on the shelves and showing up in the charts at the back of the Sunday papers' magazines. I could be wrong, but that's how it seems.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Doofy

As for why it's not happening, I don't think there's much investment capital available for Euro software. The US VCs seem to give development deals to teenagers sitting in basements with half-finished code. Euro VCs don't want to know until your product is already on the shelves and showing up in the charts at the back of the Sunday papers' magazines. I could be wrong, but that's how it seems.

Well, the second-largest software company is European (even German) – SAP.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Well, the second-largest software company is European (even German) – SAP.

I didn't know that. Perhaps because I've never heard of them.

[analogika]

Third-largest, actually.

http://www.sap.com:80/company/index.epx

Founded in 1972, SAP is the recognized leader in providing collaborative business solutions for all types of industries and for every major market.

With 12 million users, 91,500 installations, and more than 1,500 partners, SAP is the world's largest inter-enterprise software company and the world's third-largest independent software supplier overall. We have a rich history of innovation and growth that has made us a true industry leader. Today, SAP employs more than 32,000 people in more than 50 countries.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by analogika

Third-largest, actually.

http://www.sap.com:80/company/index.epx

I stand corrected. Thanks analogika.
(But I'm sure as all `American' operating systems, they have outsourced quite a bit to India/China as well.)

[Kerrigan]

You know that CAP was cooked up to take care of the same situation, but with farming. "What if Europe is cut off from Europe or America in a war, where will our food come from"? And so was born was the most wasteful subsidy program in the history of the EU, with nearly half the EU budget going towards CAP. Perhaps they could spend the other half of the Budget on the Common OS Policy, subsidising French programmers to develop a mediocre OS.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

You know that CAP was cooked up to take care of the same situation, but with farming. "What if Europe is cut off from Europe or America in a war, where will our food come from"? And so was born was the most wasteful subsidy program in the history of the EU, with nearly half the EU budget going towards CAP. Perhaps they could spend the other half of the Budget on the Common OS Policy, subsidising French programmers to develop a mediocre OS.

Source please

cheers

W-Y

[m a d r a]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

You know that CAP was cooked up to take care of the same situation, but with farming. "What if Europe is cut off from Europe or America in a war, where will our food come from"? And so was born was the most wasteful subsidy program in the history of the EU, with nearly half the EU budget going towards CAP. Perhaps they could spend the other half of the Budget on the Common OS Policy, subsidising French programmers to develop a mediocre OS.

the CAP is the classic example which is always trotted out to show the EU at its worst; wasting money, ploughing mountains of food into the ground etc. [although i s'pose the fact that there are 'butter mountains', 'wine lakes' and the like show that, from the point of view of making europe self-sufficient in food, it worked - albeit too well!]

however, there are quite a few examples of eu projects allowing europe to play in the big league, which would have been beyond the capabilities of individual member states; airbus, eurofighter and the ESA, to name the first three that pop into my vacant skull [and dare i add the "€" to that? - although it's still in its infancy]. so it's not always an inefficient, bureaucracy-laden money-pit.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by m a d r a

so it's not always an inefficient, bureaucracy-laden money-pit.

Yes it is.

[Sven G]

If you accept Linux as a basically European OS, there are at least 2 oustanding European distributions:

- Mandriva Linux (formerly Mandrake), Français;

- SuSE Linux (now part of Novell), Deutsch.

SuSE, BTW, stands for System und Software Entwicklung - that is, system and software development...