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smeger · Dec 13, 2002, 07:29 PM

Howdy ThemeHedz!

This is just a quick note to let people know what's going on in ThemePark Land. Here's what's new:

PICT resource editor is implemented - you can now use ThemePark to edit the Finder's Localized.rsrc file.
There's a currently-implemented plist hack you can use to disable the "Do you want to save?" confirmation for changes to individual resources. I'm going to throw a GUI on this before I release it.
I've taken a second look at the 'ppat' editor code. It's pretty nasty. Minor fixes have been implemented, but I think I'm going to have to take a day and sit down and pound it into submission. Hopefully, this will fix the bug with Cocoa drawer backgrounds, as well as a few other inconsistencies. The problem is that the 'ppat' is one of those old-skewl Carbon formats where the spec is like "jam a bunch of bits together. If bit 7 is set, the resource uses Format A, otherwise, it's Format B unless bit 14 is set, in which case everything is word-aligned except on Tuesdays..." Nasty.
Infrastructure rearrangements are coming along nicely - when they're done (maybe mid-January), you won't need to edit the same widget 76 times, and widgets will be arranged logically instead of by resource type & ID. ThemePark will also be able to build complete themes when this is done.
Tighter Photoshop integration is coming soon (Photoshop scripting is extremely cool). You'll no longer have to mess around with transferring alpha masks back and forth, or with moving a properly masked Photoshop image into ThemePark.
I'll be supporting whatever theme formats people come up with unless they're totally ludicrous.
I'll include the theme-creation tutorial I've been working on.
More goodies that I'm not yet ready to announce, but I'll tease people by saying that they're pretty damn cool.

I'll be releasing an updated build in a few days. It'll include the PICT editor, disabling the save confirmation, and updated ppat handling. Expect it by next week.

Are people interested in being able to read OS 9 appearance theme files with ThemePark? I haven't coded it in because it's somewhat of a pain in the ass (they use color indexed images instead of RGB). But, if demand is high, I'll add this. The only benefit it would bring is being able to easily copy widgets out of old OS 9 appearance themes (different from Kaleidescope schemes).

Enjoy.

CarbonG4 · Dec 13, 2002, 08:31 PM

Everything sounds great man... the next release should be out just in time for me when the private beta process is done over this weekend (hopefully) and next week if necessary.

Then after the Extras and Localized files are completed in TP all I should have left is the Finder.rsrc file

Glad to hear about the infrastructure rearrangments that are planned, that just may be enough to convince me to do another theme after Watercolor, heh.

zazou · Dec 13, 2002, 09:46 PM

You know, a hot-spot tool-tip map would be nice.

Probably more of a dream feature, though.

Basically, a window that displays a preview or even a static Aqua image. As yoo roll over areas you get pop-up IDs.

e.g. you rollover a tab and a 'note' pops up and displays:

Foreround Tab:
Blue ID: 123546
Graphit ID: 987654

Well, its a thought...

Dace · Dec 14, 2002, 01:04 AM

Originally posted by zazou:
You know, a hot-spot tool-tip map would be nice.

Probably more of a dream feature, though.

Basically, a window that displays a preview or even a static Aqua image. As yoo roll over areas you get pop-up IDs.

e.g. you rollover a tab and a 'note' pops up and displays:

Foreround Tab:
Blue ID: 123546
Graphit ID: 987654

Well, its a thought...

That would be great, at least for the tutorial. a diagram tutorial

smeger · Dec 14, 2002, 03:55 AM

Originally posted by zazou:
You know, a hot-spot tool-tip map would be nice.

Probably more of a dream feature, though.

Basically, a window that displays a preview or even a static Aqua image. As yoo roll over areas you get pop-up IDs.

e.g. you rollover a tab and a 'note' pops up and displays:

Foreround Tab:
Blue ID: 123546
Graphit ID: 987654

Well, its a thought...

Planned for the release after the infrastructure one. It won't be exactly what you describe, but close enough (better in my opinion). I don't want to describe any farther though, because I don't want to end up vaporware-ing.

The infrastructure release will have a sort-of non-graphical version of this. Instead of having a hierarchy like the current one:

Code:
pxm# -> 2001 Window Close -> (the widget editor)

you'll have something like

Code:
Aqua -> Windows -> Titlebar -> Close Widget -> (the widget editor)

which will handle Carbon & Cocoa. Any known "gotchas" will be displayed along with the graphics editor.

Dace · Dec 14, 2002, 05:24 AM

I did notice quite a few pxm's are similar...it would be nice that if you themed one you themed them all. Any chance of enhancing "contextual menus"?

smeger · Dec 14, 2002, 05:48 AM

Originally posted by Dace:
I did notice quite a few pxm's are similar...it would be nice that if you themed one you themed them all.

Yup, that's the plan, stan!

Any chance of enhancing "contextual menus"?

Sure there's a chance. What would you like to see added?

Dace · Dec 14, 2002, 05:59 AM

Originally posted by smeger:

Sure there's a chance. What would you like to see added?

I'd like to see "Select All" . I'm a mouse man, too lazy to reach out and type "cmd+A"

Zimphire · Dec 14, 2002, 09:20 AM

smeger

Keep up the good work. I might start actually trying to theme a bit again. (If I get the time)

bbxstudio · Dec 14, 2002, 01:35 PM

You know what I'd like to see in Themepark (a fantastic app I might add)?

1. I'd like an option available whereby I can view the resources in their current list-by-resource-number state, but also jump to an organized-by-function view: a heading called 'menus' contains all menu-related resources; a heading called 'widgets' contains all widgets, toolbar buttons and growboxes; a heading called 'tabs' takes care of all tabs and panes; 'sliders' for slider elements, etc. It's a little wonky having to hunt through the list where related elements are scattered up and down the list. Right now Themepark seems to behave a little like a generic resource editor, when its sole function is developing OSX themes - it would be nice if it allowed the developer to interact with the resources in a more specialized theme-centric manner. There was an application called D'studio in OS9 (used for Kaleidoscope schemes) that did essentially the same thing.

2. 'Flagging' - one of 2 or 3 coloured labels a developer can apply to the resource: for flagging 'get to this', or 'these have been replaced' or 'these are giving me problems'... beats having to list resource IDs on a seperate piece of paper. I'm guessing this would require themepark embedding its own pref somewhere into the extras file if we wanted the flags to remain throughout multiple sessions.

3. 'Linking' - where the user is able to tag 'identical' resources... update one and the duplicates follow suit. This would be extremely useful

Again, I'm guessing this would require some custom pref or something embedded in the extras file.

4. A 'global' ppat option - paste it once and it applies across the board (very useful considering we pretty much have to use the same ppat throughout in OSX - pasting a 128x128 pixel pattern into each is probably the most tedious and time-consuming thing I've run into.

5. (This one's probably impossible but you tell me) 'Batch processing with Photoshop' - have Themepark and Photoshop do a dance whereby every pixel-based resource in the extras.rsrc is copied out and pasted into a new document in photoshop - which then processes with a user-specified action, flattens, copies and then pastes back into Themepark. This would allow global colour tweaking, quick variations, etc. Used in conjunction with 'flags' (which would say 'skip me'), this could be incredibly powerful. Probably beyond the realm of do-ability, but oh well...

6. Going 'beyond the exras.rsrc' - bootpanels, cursors, restart+shutdown buttons, the whole kit and kaboodle editable from within themepark (and organized logically as in #1).

7. The holy grail... 'live update preview' - a floating window which reflects in real-time (or upon save) changes made in Themepark... it would be nice if one could turn interface element on and off, but a frankenstein everything-plus-the-kitchen-sink would be nice too. I've seen this implemented in D'studio as well (although it only worked with K1 schemes because it couldn't handle the dynamics of the K2 format - OSX themes have set dimensions pretty much, so it might be do-able... however, I know nothing of these matters - I am but a mental infant)...

My 2, er, 7 cents...

swiz · Dec 14, 2002, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
You know what I'd like to see in Themepark (a fantastic app I might add)?

1. I'd like an option available whereby I can view the resources in their current list-by-resource-number state, but also jump to an organized-by-function view: a heading called 'menus' contains all menu-related resources; a heading called 'widgets' contains all widgets, toolbar buttons and growboxes; a heading called 'tabs' takes care of all tabs and panes; 'sliders' for slider elements, etc. It's a little wonky having to hunt through the list where related elements are scattered up and down the list. Right now Themepark seems to behave a little like a generic resource editor, when its sole function is developing OSX themes - it would be nice if it allowed the developer to interact with the resources in a more specialized theme-centric manner. There was an application called D'studio in OS9 (used for Kaleidoscope schemes) that did essentially the same thing.

2. 'Flagging' - one of 2 or 3 coloured labels a developer can apply to the resource: for flagging 'get to this', or 'these have been replaced' or 'these are giving me problems'... beats having to list resource IDs on a seperate piece of paper. I'm guessing this would require themepark embedding its own pref somewhere into the extras file if we wanted the flags to remain throughout multiple sessions.

3. 'Linking' - where the user is able to tag 'identical' resources... update one and the duplicates follow suit. This would be extremely useful Again, I'm guessing this would require some custom pref or something embedded in the extras file.

4. A 'global' ppat option - paste it once and it applies across the board (very useful considering we pretty much have to use the same ppat throughout in OSX - pasting a 128x128 pixel pattern into each is probably the most tedious and time-consuming thing I've run into.

5. (This one's probably impossible but you tell me) 'Batch processing with Photoshop' - have Themepark and Photoshop do a dance whereby every pixel-based resource in the extras.rsrc is copied out and pasted into a new document in photoshop - which then processes with a user-specified action, flattens, copies and then pastes back into Themepark. This would allow global colour tweaking, quick variations, etc. Used in conjunction with 'flags' (which would say 'skip me'), this could be incredibly powerful. Probably beyond the realm of do-ability, but oh well...

6. Going 'beyond the exras.rsrc' - bootpanels, cursors, restart+shutdown buttons, the whole kit and kaboodle editable from within themepark (and organized logically as in #1).

7. The holy grail... 'live update preview' - a floating window which reflects in real-time (or upon save) changes made in Themepark... it would be nice if one could turn interface element on and off, but a frankenstein everything-plus-the-kitchen-sink would be nice too. I've seen this implemented in D'studio as well (although it only worked with K1 schemes because it couldn't handle the dynamics of the K2 format - OSX themes have set dimensions pretty much, so it might be do-able... however, I know nothing of these matters - I am but a mental infant)...

My 2, er, 7 cents...

Those are all great bbx, I would fully endorse them all with a few stipulations.
1. Combine number one and number seven so that when I choose:
"WindowLargeCloseBox"; a popup window appears with only a titlebar and the widgets on it, with live updates of course. You may have meant it this way anyway.

2.Absolutely necessary!

3.This could only work in some instances , and not very many at that, there are many resources which appear the same but until we have NO more carbon apps around in OSX we will still need to modify them individually since Cocoa handles inactive widgets differently than Carbon.

4.So long as this global idea is an option and not a set feature. The theme I am about to release has 3 ppats which are different from the rest and this is necessart for Carbon apps to appear properly. This is the only instance I see this working for though: when you are using a different color for tab panes than the other ppat usages.

5.This would lead to lots of color variants of existing themes which usually turns out quite badly since hue shifts generally lead to many elements looking jank. I can see alot of people liking this though so they can just churn out quickies. But then this will lead to the Kaleidoscope syndrome.

6.Wonderful!

7.Yessa.

smeger · Dec 14, 2002, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by Dace:

I'd like to see "Select All" . I'm a mouse man, too lazy to reach out and type "cmd+A"

The 'pxm#' editor now has a 'Select All' contextual menu. Ahhh, if only all code modifications were this easy...

Dace · Dec 14, 2002, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by smeger:

The 'pxm#' editor now has a 'Select All' contextual menu. Ahhh, if only all code modifications were this easy...

Thank you, now I'm happy...for now

Adam Betts · Dec 14, 2002, 04:27 PM

Excellent! You got me all excited again

smeger · Dec 14, 2002, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
You know what I'd like to see in Themepark (a fantastic app I might add)?

I'm going to have to answer this sort of briefly because I'm �ber-busy today. My apologies...

1. I'd like an option available whereby I can view the resources in their current list-by-resource-number state, but also jump to an organized-by-function view: a heading called 'menus' contains all menu-related resources; a heading called 'widgets' contains all widgets, toolbar buttons and growboxes; a heading called 'tabs' takes care of all tabs and panes; 'sliders' for slider elements, etc. It's a little wonky having to hunt through the list where related elements are scattered up and down the list. Right now Themepark seems to behave a little like a generic resource editor, when its sole function is developing OSX themes - it would be nice if it allowed the developer to interact with the resources in a more specialized theme-centric manner. There was an application called D'studio in OS9 (used for Kaleidoscope schemes) that did essentially the same thing.

Already implemented in my development builds. These are the 'infrastructure refinements' I've been blabbing about. You'll probably see a release around February, but you'll see builds before then because Theme Devs are going to be creating the functional hierarchy.

2. 'Flagging' - one of 2 or 3 coloured labels a developer can apply to the resource: for flagging 'get to this', or 'these have been replaced' or 'these are giving me problems'... beats having to list resource IDs on a seperate piece of paper. I'm guessing this would require themepark embedding its own pref somewhere into the extras file if we wanted the flags to remain throughout multiple sessions.

This is the actual code that I'm working on now. I hadn't thought of using labels, I was just using "edited" or "not-edited" (and "needs to be premultiplied"). But my implementation allows for easy labelling if something beyond those three is desired.

3. 'Linking' - where the user is able to tag 'identical' resources... update one and the duplicates follow suit. This would be extremely useful Again, I'm guessing this would require some custom pref or something embedded in the extras file.

Done as part of item 1.

4. A 'global' ppat option - paste it once and it applies across the board (very useful considering we pretty much have to use the same ppat throughout in OSX - pasting a 128x128 pixel pattern into each is probably the most tedious and time-consuming thing I've run into.

As Swiz said, I wouldn't want to do this in case the designer didn't want them all the same. But the links in Item 3 are user-editable, so if you want to do it, it'll be easy to customize.

5. (This one's probably impossible but you tell me) 'Batch processing with Photoshop' - have Themepark and Photoshop do a dance whereby every pixel-based resource in the extras.rsrc is copied out and pasted into a new document in photoshop - which then processes with a user-specified action, flattens, copies and then pastes back into Themepark. This would allow global colour tweaking, quick variations, etc. Used in conjunction with 'flags' (which would say 'skip me'), this could be incredibly powerful. Probably beyond the realm of do-ability, but oh well...

Not impossible. Geekspiff refuses to comment on unannounced products.

6. Going 'beyond the exras.rsrc' - bootpanels, cursors, restart+shutdown buttons, the whole kit and kaboodle editable from within themepark (and organized logically as in #1).

Done as part of item 1.

7. The holy grail... 'live update preview' - a floating window which reflects in real-time (or upon save) changes made in Themepark... it would be nice if one could turn interface element on and off, but a frankenstein everything-plus-the-kitchen-sink would be nice too. I've seen this implemented in D'studio as well (although it only worked with K1 schemes because it couldn't handle the dynamics of the K2 format - OSX themes have set dimensions pretty much, so it might be do-able... however, I know nothing of these matters - I am but a mental infant)...

Well, this isn't really do-able under OS X. At least, not nicely, and not currently.

smeger · Dec 14, 2002, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Excellent! You got me all excited again

Great! Because I'm gonna need an "Edit in Photoshop" toolbar icon and a 'PICT' one.

: sniffle sniffle :
pretty please?

foobars · Dec 14, 2002, 05:07 PM

Sorry this might have already been mentioned in the thread, but I used ThemePark a few months ago and one thing I couldn't do was select multiple resources (say, pxm#) and copy pase them to another extras.rsrc open in another window of ThemePark. Is that possible now?

Excellent app, btw.

smeger · Dec 14, 2002, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by foobars:
Sorry this might have already been mentioned in the thread, but I used ThemePark a few months ago and one thing I couldn't do was select multiple resources (say, pxm#) and copy pase them to another extras.rsrc open in another window of ThemePark. Is that possible now?

Excellent app, btw.

Nope, still not possible, sorry.

foobars · Dec 14, 2002, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by smeger:

Nope, still not possible, sorry.

Would this be possible? I'm running a newer version of OSX and extras.rsrc has been added it, it would be easy to just select all>copy from a 10.2.2 theme and paste over the new extras.rsrc which would retain all the new elements. In order to update themes now I have to boot into 9, use quick convert, do the copy in res edit and quick convert back- doing it all in ThemePark would make it a lot easier.

Dace · Dec 14, 2002, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by foobars:

Would this be possible? I'm running a newer version of OSX and extras.rsrc has been added it, it would be easy to just select all>copy from a 10.2.2 theme and paste over the new extras.rsrc which would retain all the new elements. In order to update themes now I have to boot into 9, use quick convert, do the copy in res edit and quick convert back- doing it all in ThemePark would make it a lot easier.

Either do it in Classic or use Resorcerer or the like.

swiz · Dec 15, 2002, 01:50 AM

Originally posted by foobars:

Would this be possible? I'm running a newer version of OSX and extras.rsrc has been added it, it would be easy to just select all>copy from a 10.2.2 theme and paste over the new extras.rsrc which would retain all the new elements. In order to update themes now I have to boot into 9, use quick convert, do the copy in res edit and quick convert back- doing it all in ThemePark would make it a lot easier.

You still cannot do this effectively. There are resources in the 10.2 file which are identical to the pre 10.2 ones with the exception that the 10.2 resource has an additional frame. This creates "invisible" elements in certain instances because the frame is missing. Even Theme Fur cannot overcome this. The only to do a 100% pre-Jag to Jag conversion is knowing which elements this includes and dealing with them individually.

swiz · Dec 15, 2002, 03:23 AM

smeg, would a screenshot of a mock up I created for expanding Themeparks current interface be appropriate here or should I just send it to you?

It doesnt improve the interface by making it pretty, just adds features which would be highly appreciated and how I think they would be best enstated in the current apps layout.

foobars · Dec 15, 2002, 04:11 AM

Originally posted by swiz:

You still cannot do this effectively. There are resources in the 10.2 file which are identical to the pre 10.2 ones with the exception that the 10.2 resource has an additional frame. This creates "invisible" elements in certain instances because the frame is missing. Even Theme Fur cannot overcome this. The only to do a 100% pre-Jag to Jag conversion is knowing which elements this includes and dealing with them individually.

Well I was referring to an even newer version that 10.2.2.

Even so, I'm using the same custom theme I've been using since 10.1- and I've updated it using those methods but haven't noticed a problem. What resources would cause such invisible elements?

smeger · Dec 15, 2002, 04:12 AM

Originally posted by swiz:
smeg, would a screenshot of a mock up I created for expanding Themeparks current interface be appropriate here or should I just send it to you?

It doesnt improve the interface by making it pretty, just adds features which would be highly appreciated and how I think they would be best enstated in the current apps layout.

Why don't you either IM me or send it by email. I'll be online a lot more tomorrow than I was today - today was Chicken Mol� Day.

smeger · Dec 15, 2002, 04:18 AM

Originally posted by foobars:

Would this be possible? I'm running a newer version of OSX and extras.rsrc has been added it, it would be easy to just select all>copy from a 10.2.2 theme and paste over the new extras.rsrc which would retain all the new elements. In order to update themes now I have to boot into 9, use quick convert, do the copy in res edit and quick convert back- doing it all in ThemePark would make it a lot easier.

I'd prefer to wait until theming has become more accessible to the less technically inclined to add a feature like this. My rationale is that the feature you're requesting is fairly "professional level," but right now, only pros with lots of spare time can make a theme. Once it's become easier to do, I'll begin to focus on stuff like your request.

BTW, why aren't you using ResEdit from Classic?

Dace · Dec 15, 2002, 04:23 AM

Originally posted by smeger:

Why don't you either IM me or send it by email. I'll be online a lot more tomorrow than I was today - today was Chicken Mol� Day.

Chicken Mole? Is that Mexican? Do you mean mole as in a sauce made with hot peppers, chocolate and many other ingredients?

smeger · Dec 15, 2002, 05:23 AM

Originally posted by Dace:

Chicken Mole? Is that Mexican? Do you mean mole as in a sauce made with hot peppers, chocolate and many other ingredients?

That's the one. Yummage. Bitch to make, tho.

swiz · Dec 15, 2002, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by foobars:

Well I was referring to an even newer version that 10.2.2.

Even so, I'm using the same custom theme I've been using since 10.1- and I've updated it using those methods but haven't noticed a problem. What resources would cause such invisible elements?

The most noticeable ones are the large round buttons and the round buttons. These are the buttons you push to authenticate to make system changes. Usually you will only notice it when these buttons are being used as toggle on/off but there are some other instances too.

Dace · Dec 15, 2002, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by smeger:

That's the one. Yummage. Bitch to make, tho.

I let my grandmother do it

I prefer it as '"enchiladas"

foobars · Dec 15, 2002, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by smeger:

I'd prefer to wait until theming has become more accessible to the less technically inclined to add a feature like this. My rationale is that the feature you're requesting is fairly "professional level," but right now, only pros with lots of spare time can make a theme. Once it's become easier to do, I'll begin to focus on stuff like your request.

BTW, why aren't you using ResEdit from Classic?

Why does everyone keep asking me this? My post pretty clearly says thats exactly what I do.

Anyway, I really like ThemePark and am looking forward to the next update. Indeed this is a pro feature, I'll like it even more when we get it!

Keep up the great wook!

foobars · Dec 15, 2002, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by swiz:

The most noticeable ones are the large round buttons and the round buttons. These are the buttons you push to authenticate to make system changes. Usually you will only notice it when these buttons are being used as toggle on/off but there are some other instances too.

Ah well my theme doesn't modify the Aqua buttons, so I guess that's why I haven't noticed it.

Dace · Dec 15, 2002, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by foobars:

Why does everyone keep asking me this? My post pretty clearly says thats exactly what I do.

You said "(...) I have to boot into 9 (...)". There's a difference between BOOTING into OS 9 and STARTING up CLASSIC

smeger · Dec 15, 2002, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by Dace:

You said "(...) I have to boot into 9 (...)". There's a difference between BOOTING into OS 9 and STARTING up CLASSIC

Indeed. This was how I understood you, too.

In any case, sorry for the confusion!

foobars · Dec 15, 2002, 11:08 PM

Originally posted by smeger:

Indeed. This was how I understood you, too.

In any case, sorry for the confusion!

Oh haha. Yeah my bad.

I boot Classic. It's the only reason I ever have to boot Classic though, which is why I want the feature so bad.

swiz · Dec 16, 2002, 12:24 AM

Originally posted by foobars:

Ah well my theme doesn't modify the Aqua buttons, so I guess that's why I haven't noticed it.

Those are different from the push buttons, they are in both graphite and aqua. Open up your system prefs and youul see a round button, perfectly round. Thats the one.

foobars · Dec 16, 2002, 01:55 AM

Originally posted by swiz:

Those are different from the push buttons, they are in both graphite and aqua. Open up your system prefs and youul see a round button, perfectly round. Thats the one.

What do you mean by system prefs?

... and I'm fooling around in AppearanceSample and I don't see any errors...