[Dan Szwarc]

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum. Please move it if necessary.

Does anyone know about "shadowsb" on ebay? I decided to see how much a 867 Desktop and a 15" or 17" Apple LCD would sell for to compare it to the new iMac and came across this item. It ended with "buy it now" and had an incredible price.

I sent the seller a question and got this canned response back. Why do I know it's canned? Because I accidentally sent it twice and he didn't answer my question:

Although we do not disclose the details of our relationships with our vendors as a company policy, we will say that we have established and positive relationships with several of the nation's larger authorized Apple specialty stores and computer resellers. Our pricing is the result of months and even years of volume purchasing and intimate knowledge of the large-scale purchasing process. We know how to negotiate great pricing - and we pass the savings on to you.

I asked if he was an "Apple Authorized Reseller". That's because he implies you could get the $300 rebate from Apple if you bought the system I linked to above.

I am suspicious. He only accepts cash and difficult to refund payments (certified check, money order, direct transfer to his bank account). He also doesn't ship immediately. Calls it pre-selling (we take your money, you wait, someday we ship).

He has a decent rating on ebay, but I'm still suspicious. I am tempted to bring this seller to Apple's attention (if merely posting here doesn't raise a red flag).

Please, great readers of the MacNN forums, am I passing up some good deals?

[ 05-24-2002: Message edited by: Dan Szwarc ]

[mikellanes]

Looking through some of his previous auctions, the prices aren't that great to make me suspicious, also the feedback is almost all positive. seems legit to me, you can try e-mailing some of the previous winners to see how service was/how fast product was delivered.

good luck

-Mike-

[Dan Szwarc]

He just sold an 867 G4 with a 17" studio display for $2245 (search for completed auctions, "price drop 867"). These items would be $3500 from Apple. Knock off the $300 he says it qualifies for and you have $1945. You don't consider that to be a good price? That's like 45% off! And no shipping and no taxes!

[OldManMac]

Originally posted by Dan Szwarc:
<STRONG>He just sold an 867 G4 with a 17" studio display for $2245 (search for completed auctions, "price drop 867"). These items would be $3500 from Apple. Knock off the $300 he says it qualifies for and you have $1945. You don't consider that to be a good price? That's like 45% off! And no shipping and no taxes!</STRONG>

Sounds extraordinarily fishy to me! The cost to an Apple dealer on the G4 alone is higher than $2245, let alone the monitor!

[MacAgent]

Don't Apple employees get 50% off or something?

[BTP]

Apple employees get a good discount, but I don't know what it is. 50% is not likely though. I do know that they are limited to how much they can buy, to prevent them from using their discount and reselling equipment.

I re-read your post. It might be legit, but with you having to wait 14 days or so, and paying in cash, it is a lot more risk than I would take personally. The feedback you will note, is spotty. They did not do any business on Ebay from about March 2000 to December 2001. You also have no idea what they were selling before to get a good rating.

It is a tough call; the reasons for taking cash make sense if they are cutting cost as much as possible. In the end, they could take your money and run. You can't protect yourself when sending cash.

[JayTi]

Don't do it, seriously. I've been scammed out of $1750 because I thought the price was too good to be true...It most certaintly was. I was on the phone with detectives all over the country, talking to the US Postal Inspector, even the FBI. Now, about 8 months later, I am still $1750 out. It's not worth the headache, it's really not. Loose $2450, or get a good deal for like $800 less? The choice is yours, but unless I could get the person PHYSICALLY on the phone, talk to them, find out what their story was...I wouldn't even consider it. Just my $.02

[JayTi]

OMG!!! DO NOT BUY FROM THESE PEOPLE!!! THESE WERE THE ONE'S WHO RIPPED MY OFF!!!!!!! Want Proof? I have the BOUNCED check that they gave to me for my alleged REFUND! If anyone wants a picture of the "Insufficient Funds" check, please let me know, I will be MORE than happy to e-mail it to you. PLEASE guys, do NOT be ripped off by these people!!! Their other alias was "BulletProof Industires" and "Bullet_proof" and "BulletProof" Most of Which are not even registered users anymore! BEWARE Guys, Take it from a guy who has been RIPPED OFF from them!

[JayTi]

To add, the actual "PERSON" I dealt with for that place was named Patrick Woods, who was apparently fired

Edit: And to note, I am an Apple Employee, and we don't get anywhere near 50% off...that's why I tried to buy through these "people". Off an 867 Mhz Stock config, we get off about $400

[ 01-13-2002: Message edited by: JayTi ]

[Tristrami]

PLs. move this to buy/sell.

[Noc]

I too was impressed by "shadowsb" low prices, yet suspicious. I emailed him asking if he was an apple authorized seller and this is the response I got:

Although we do not disclose the details of our relationships with our
vendors as a company policy, we will say that we have established and
positive relationships with several of the nation's larger authorized Apple
specialty stores and computer resellers. Our pricing is the result of months
and even years of volume purchasing and intimate knowledge of the
large-scale purchasing process. We know how to negotiate great pricing - and
we pass the savings on to you

This didn't answer my question, so I asked again if he was an authorized seller...

your product is ordered thru us and fulfilled thru the authorized reseller
-- the invoice is actually from THEM

Make of it what you will...

[JoeG4]

Sounds un-legit to me, I checked back in his records, and from what I can tell, over 50 auctions have been won that he HOSTED, AND THEY NEVER GOT ANY VOTE RESPONSE (fraudy it is)

Plus, some of the people who rated had an email address that was either considered fake, or related to his, I guess you could say, be careful.

I'd check myself.

Anyhow, I can't say much more about fraud, apple frauded me into paying $2500 for a LCD that has a broken leg,. and I have 30 dead pixels, 30 stuck pixels. What do you think? I called, yelled at three reps, the 4th was customer relations, they are sending me a new one in about a week.

*grumble* Unfortunately the Customer Relations rep didn't even know what a Cinema Display was. lol

Anyhow, my 3 cents, don't bid, no matter how good a deal it seems, because it's definately a fake.....

The products never post serial numbers, relations to apple, and the prices are really low. Sorry, no sell

- Joe

[Ron W]

I have been watching the above mentioned eBay seller and his prices as well. There are small margins on Apple hardware and I can�t see how anyone would able to offer at those prices without losing money. I am not saying for one minute that this seller is not legit, as I have no personal knowledge of him. Maybe it is SJ, I guess if it were, then thee would be no delay in shipping would there.

I am hoping he is legit for a lot of people�s sake and if he is I missed the boat. He had about 6 dual 800�s for $1594.00. If he accepted PayPal I would have purchased every single one of them. When you pay with a Credit card like Vis@ there is a small thing called charge back. Basically, if there is a dispute over goods, the bank/vis@ does not loose. The customer does not loose, the vendor is out of the money. To be able to accept payment from these credit card companies you have to sign agreements stating such.
It is a good thing to know and when you make large purchases. Have you ever been treated like dirt after a big purchase? You have dropped a few thousand dollars on a monitor�ouch. To a large company that may not be a significant amount but to working folk it hard earned money. If they decide not to give you the service you deserve then you have recourse. I am under the assumption that the Credit Card Policies are the same in the US as in Canada. Maybe a learned vendor or consumer could clarify this for me.

EBay feedback is a great way to see if a seller WAS legit in the past. It generally gives a good indication of present and future ethic but not necessarily. Remember Cugo people!
I am sure he was once a cuddly little doggie and then look what happened�
Hypothetically, A person can start up a new user ID and sell a lot of $5.00 hockey cards. I invest $500.00 and make 100 sales at no profit. With a 100 sales you can expect a feedback of about 70, as not everyone will leave feedback. Wait three months and when someone tries to search your feedback and on items you sold. No longer in our database you will find. Let say this seller now has a rare print worth $4000.00 with a Buy it now of $2000.00. What do you do� Fight it! Unless he accepts a CC of course. He has good feedback but for what items though. Conversely, If he has just sold $50,000 worth of items in the last month and has gotten great feedback for them. This would be a somewhat better indication of a seller�s ethics and his ability to deliver the goods. To find these details go to eBay then search by seller, including completed items, and all. The all will give you the last 30 days I believe. This can be an exercise for all the eBay newbies to perform. I came across a good deal on a WallSreet PB and did my usual back -ground check. The seller had a feedback of 50 or so which is respectable. They were all for items $2.00 to $5.00. I searched his completed auctions and he had completed auction totals in excess of $250 000 in the last 15 days. I was not going to touch this seller with a 10 foot pole.
Ebay is great and I do not want to scare anyone away form it. I enjoy selling and buying there and want to help maintain its high standards. I just wanted to share a bit of knowledge I have gained from my experiences. I have learned the hard way and hopefully this may save someone some grief.

BTW � I sell PowerBook parts for the WallStreet on occasion. If you are looking for a DVD kit for $50.00 then you will be out of luck. I can sell Big Lobster Tales from the Bay of Fundy for $5.00 though.

Ron

[OldManMac]

Originally posted by Ron W:
<STRONG>I have been watching the above mentioned eBay seller and his prices as well. There are small margins on Apple hardware and I can�t see how anyone would able to offer at those prices without losing money.
I am hoping he is legit for a lot of people�s sake and if he is I missed the boat. He had about 6 dual 800�s for $1594.00.

Ron</STRONG>

I sell Macs for an Apple Specialist independent, and I can assure you with every bit of certainty that there's no way he can sell dual 800s at those prices if here were legit! One of the other posts on this thread mentions a reply from him, stating that they know how to negotiate the best price, through their relationships with Apple dealers, and that you order from him, but the invoice comes from the dealer! This is impossible!!!!! I can't divulge costs, but there is no way, no how, that a dual 800 can be sold for $1594 with anyone, including Apple, making money on it, yet he's going to make money on it, as well the dealer he "negotiated" with? This is impossible!!!!! Even volume purchases direct from Apple don't have this kind of margin! I passed on an iMac deal last year because, even though it was for 25 units, there wasn't enough money in it to cut $20 off the iMac price, and still deliver and set the units up! The only way we would have received a better price from Apple is if we had purchased 100+ units! CompUSA got the deal, by cutting $10 off each iMac, and the customer had to pick them up and set them up as well!

Any one who buys from this outfit deserves to have their money taken from them!

[Will Brocklebank]

I have joined the unhappy throng that have been thoroughly screwed over by these people. BEWARE SHADOW SB

I put these details down so that if you find them, hear about them etc. you can steer clear and warn others. (Oh, and if you do actually find them then please keep them immobile until I can come round and extract my money... slowly.)

As background ShadowSB seems to comprise of 2 people: Teresa Smith (the boss) and Drew Berkeley. A WHOIS search on their domain name brings up the following address:

Teresa Smith & Drew Berkeley
Smith/Berkeley
3 Hillside Ave
Boylston
MA 01505
US

Also a WHOIS on smithberkeley.com comes up with the same address and

Box 1075
Boylston, MA 01505

This may be correct as I once spoke to Drew and he said that operations were based in MA. I have 3 phone numbers for them:
508 873 5411 � Teresa Main Number
216 577 8238 � a number Drew once gave me
508-835-1699, ext. 21 � which puts you through to the Arch Media Group which I cannot seem to get through to.

If anyone else can help with my FBI investigation and legal action please, please email me.

[mitchell_pgh]

Dr. Rip Off
New Member



Posts: 2
From: Suckerville, FU, USA
Registered: Mar 7 2002

I have a brand new G5 @ 2.2 Ghz for $1202.99 that included a Apple 23" LCD screen and a color laser printer thrown in... I only accept stacks on non sequential dollar bills or change...

Send money to P.O. Box 69 Nowhereville FU

[Dan Szwarc]

Update: Saw this on Macintouch today:

Mark Sartor emailed us about alleged fraud involving the sale of Mac systems in an Internet auction:

"A quick note to anyone having participated in an auction via Shadowsb.com (Ebay and Auctioworks) and gotten ripped off: The FBI has taken over the case in West Boylston MA, and it now involves close to 200 victims, and more than $200,000. I was about to try to sue her myself when I called the police there, and was told of all of this. I ordered/won the bid on a G4 iMac in Jan 2002, and it never arrived!
� The FBI has a web site for anyone who hasn't filled out a federal complaint form regarding this or any other internet fraud. (Turns out I had already filled it out thanks to a previous listing of the web site by MacInTouch - Thank You!) [See shadowsb-news.org for more information.]"


I knew he/she/they were crooked!

[x user]

I know someone who got ripped off by them... But with all the positive feedback, who knew?