[SQLDba]

I'm a newbie to OSX and trying to understand how things work.

I read that the program icon actually "hides" a slew of other files related to the application - so that clicking on the icon actually invokes all the files into action. (or something like that)

My question involves moving programs / icons around for organization.

I installed one application which ended up in a folder and is in my <username><applications> folder and everything else is in the general <applications> folder.

Can I just drag the folder where I want it and have it still work or what do I need to do?

Also, as I add applications, I'd like to add organizational folders (games, video, utlities etc) If I do that, can I just drag and drop stuff into them or what is the process? Spent too much time in Windows where you move one thing and the whole app goes poof

Thanks very much.

[ooninay]

Hey, SQLDba,

I could be wrong but I don't think it's "normal" to have an Applications folder in your User folder. AFAIK there is normally only one Mac Applications folder and it comes off the root of your hard drive and is available to all users. So it sounds like you have an extra Applications folder in your user folder for some reason... I don't think it matters, but organizationally it sounds a little redundant unless you actually want to restrict some applications to a particular user of your system.

Anyway, most Mac applications can just be dragged to whatever folder you want to put them in without having to worry about screwing things up. I've heard there are exceptions, but I don't know what any of those exceptions are. You should also be able to organize your Applications folder along the lines that you suggest if you prefer, without screwing up most programs (I read here somewhere a claim that 99% of Mac programs can be moved around wherever you want without affecting them).

And yes, many Mac programs are in "packages" so that you only see one icon, but it "contains" all the files that the program needs to run. To see inside the package, Control-click the icon and select "Show package contents" from the context menu.

Originally posted by SQLDba:
I'm a newbie to OSX and trying to understand how things work.

I read that the program icon actually "hides" a slew of other files related to the application - so that clicking on the icon actually invokes all the files into action. (or something like that)

My question involves moving programs / icons around for organization.

I installed one application which ended up in a folder and is in my <username><applications> folder and everything else is in the general <applications> folder.

Can I just drag the folder where I want it and have it still work or what do I need to do?

Also, as I add applications, I'd like to add organizational folders (games, video, utlities etc) If I do that, can I just drag and drop stuff into them or what is the process? Spent too much time in Windows where you move one thing and the whole app goes poof

Thanks very much.

[rastatero]

Originally posted by ooninay:
I could be wrong but I don't think it's "normal" to have an Applications folder in your User folder. AFAIK there is normally only one Mac Applications folder and it comes off the root of your hard drive and is available to all users. So it sounds like you have an extra Applications folder in your user folder for some reason... I don't think it matters, but organizationally it sounds a little redundant unless you actually want to restrict some applications to a particular user of your system.

I am running 10.3.4 and the Applications folder under the <username> is also on my machine. I believe this directory is created as a default for this version of Mac OS X. And possibly some previous versions? As it exists in the user's personal folder, you may have guessed it is for storing applications that only this user may run. There is no harm in moving applications from your personal applications folder to the global application under the root of the drive.

-- Tony

[Brass]

You can organise things within the /Applications folder as much as you want and they should still work fine.

The only problem with this may come when Apples updaters ("Software Update" / "Installer") run, it can do strange things when the application isn't in /Applications where it was expected to be found (eg, install just the new files there, and not update the actual application which is elsewhere).

So to be on the safe side, you should leave Apple-bundled applications where Apple installs them. If you like, you can still create aliases to them in subfolders, or in another folder.

[m a d r a]

the "<user>/applications" folder is normal and is for installing applications so that only that user can access them [eg. you might not want 'porn-and-filth-downloader.app' in the systemwide applications folder if your granny uses the computer too].


most apps will install in the systemwide applications folder, but the odd one will install into the applications folder of the user who is logged in when the app is installed and a few will be really polite and ask you whether you want to install the app in question for everyone or just the current user.

as regards moving things round within the apps folder, under classic, i used to be like you. i had my applications folder organised into subfolders for graphic apps, web design apps, utilities... etc etc. so when OSX came out i immediately started to try and impose the same system.

i found out that it broke quite a few things especially apple apps. the system disnae seem to handle it well if they're not where it expects them to be and you could get ludicrous situations whereby running an updater would place a few updated resources inside an empty 'package' in the applications folder instead of inside the application which was being updated, because this had been moved to a subfolder. no warnings or errors or anything - but then apple are famed for their atrocious installers and updaters!

i've kinda got used to leaving well alone now and it disnae make me wince as much as it used to when i open my apps folder and behold the unorganised clutter inside. just grit your teeth and bear it, i'd say.

[Maelman]

Since there will be lots of apps that you will be unable to define a category for, I would just make some category folders and put aliases of your apps in them. That way if there is somthing that can be defined as a graphics app or a game you will find it there, but if not, it will just be in the regular apps folder. Plus, seeing as some apps don't like to be moved, it would be a bit safer to do it that way.

I can't wait for tiger so I can set up smart folders to automatically store my apps alphabetically in the respective letter's folder.

[ooninay]

That's peculiar. I'm also running 10.3.4 and I don't have an Applications folder there. However, I wiped my hard drive and re-installed the OS myself. I wonder if that could have anything to do with it...

Originally posted by rastatero:
I am running 10.3.4 and the Applications folder under the <username> is also on my machine. I believe this directory is created as a default for this version of Mac OS X. And possibly some previous versions? As it exists in the user's personal folder, you may have guessed it is for storing applications that only this user may run. There is no harm in moving applications from your personal applications folder to the global application under the root of the drive.

-- Tony

[mikemako]

Adobe Photoshop CS installed an Applications folder in my user folder, but it didn't put anything in there. I just deleted the folder.

You should move any applications currently in your /home/Applications folder to the main Applications folder and then delete the extra Applications folder from your home folder.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Brass:
You can organise things within the /Applications folder as much as you want and they should still work fine.

The only problem with this may come when Apples updaters ("Software Update" / "Installer") run, it can do strange things when the application isn't in /Applications where it was expected to be found (eg, install just the new files there, and not update the actual application which is elsewhere).

So to be on the safe side, you should leave Apple-bundled applications where Apple installs them. If you like, you can still create aliases to them in subfolders, or in another folder.

I believe this information is a bit out of date. The Apple install packages have been able to use LaunchServices to find the correct app to update for some time now.

[Dale Sorel]

Originally posted by ooninay:
That's peculiar. I'm also running 10.3.4 and I don't have an Applications folder there.

Me neither

[NeilCharter]

Really cool apps appear simply as an icon, which can be installed in some cases by drag and drop or in others through a dedicated installer. They contain everything they need inside the package but appear as a single file. Clicking on an icon when holding down Crtl allows you to reveal the contents of the app. Don't mess with the contents, but it's interesting to take a look.

Other apps are enclosed in an folder. A good example is Photoshop. Some require additional files for operation, others are just bad design.

Really there is no need to put an app in the user's directory. In most cases, I believe this occurs because the app installer creates a folder there for the hell of it. Again basically bad design as far as I can tell.

Very few apps modify the basic system files which is one of the reasons OSX is so stable.

Two things to remember:

First most apps can be deleted by simply dragging to the trash.

Second, your preferences for each app are stored in your libary folder. This is useful when you need to wipe your drive and reinstall. By backing up your library files, this provides a way of restoring preferences including app serial numbers.

Enjoy OSX - it invites experimentation. Just don't delete anything in the System folder or top level Library folder.

[Ryan1524]

yea, i don't have that either. the only apps folder i have is the global one, and is available to all users.

[Synotic]

It's been said already, but just to clarify. Package-based applications, which you are referring to, aren't single files which, when launched call upon other files. For package based applications, it's best to think of them as folders, which contain all the data the application needs, plugins, images, interface files, and frameworks. I'm not sure exactly how you can make a folder into a package, but I believe you have to make a certain folder structure and include an file within telling the system it should be a package. Once it's a package, double clicking it will launch it as an app, and not open it as a folder.

But like any folder, you can drag it anywhere you want, since all the info needed is contained within the "folder" itself, or in the case of applications, in the package.

However, not all apps are packages. Some Carbon applications will often come as a true folder, containing the application and support files. An example would be all of Adobe's CS apps. The actual application file in these type of apps usually aren't packages (aren't Adobe's apps an exception?). They act more similarly to your idea of an app depending on other files. The difference however, is that they aren't hidden and they're all within the application's folder. Trying to move just the application itself in these type of apps certainly would break it. If you want to move them, the concept is actually quite similar (and logical) to moving packages. Just move the folder itself. Another popular app that is distributed in this way is Microsoft Office.

Note that there may be also the occasions where an app is contained within a folder not because the folder also houses support files needed by the app but because the developer chose to include a read me or guide with the application. Usually it's pretty obvious, but you'll have to use your own discretion if you want to move these applications out of their folders. I usually do (assuming they're just read mes and whatnot), just to keep my applications folder cleaner.

Hopefully this hasn't just confused you more

[m a d r a]

Originally posted by NeilCharter:
Really there is no need to put an app in the user's directory. In most cases, I believe this occurs because the app installer creates a folder there for the hell of it. Again basically bad design as far as I can tell.

i beg to differ. mac OSX is a multi-user system. apps installed in the local user's folder will only be available to that user, whereas apps installed in the 'main' apps folder are accessible by everyone. this is not bad design. it is a deliberate and logical consequence of having a multi-user OS. there may be certain applications which for one reason or another should not be made freely available to every user on the comp.

[Synotic]

Originally posted by m a d r a:
i beg to differ. mac OSX is a multi-user system. apps installed in the local user's folder will only be available to that user, whereas apps installed in the 'main' apps folder are accessible by everyone. this is not bad design. it is a deliberate and logical consequence of having a multi-user OS. there may be certain applications which for one reason or another should not be made freely available to every user on the comp.

I may be wrong but I think he is referring to creating an applications folder in the Users folder without putting anything in there "for the hell of it", bad design. And a lot of apps simply install there, for no reason, like a game. A lot of time this not going to be what the user wants.

[NeilCharter]

Thanks Synoptic - that's what I meant.

Frankly I can't think of any program that needs to be in the user folder. In most cases, apps that ask if you want to install for a single user or multiuser have to install pref files etc for function.

IMHO, putting apps in a User folder is a bad idea because it can lead to multiple copies of an application on a single system. It's a waste of space and complicates updating to new versions.

[CatOne]

Just to be clear, OS X does *not* create an "Applications" folder in the user's home folder. It's not there by default.

There's nothing really *wrong* with having it, it's just that the OS doesn't do this by default. If you have such a folder, then you (or someone -- not Apple) created it. And Applications copied to this folder won't be accessible to other users of the machine, if you have the machine set up for multiple users.

[leperkuhn]

Originally posted by mikemako:
Adobe Photoshop CS installed an Applications folder in my user folder, but it didn't put anything in there. I just deleted the folder.

You should move any applications currently in your /home/Applications folder to the main Applications folder and then delete the extra Applications folder from your home folder.

it's there so you can install stuff that only you can use.

[m a d r a]

personally, if we're talking 'stoopid' things about the file structure in mac OSX, i reckon the dumbest thing has to be the convention whereby prefs files should be named so they begin with the reverse ordered domain name of the company which makes the app in question. eg. "com.apple.finder.plist"

what genius thought that one up? - there are plenty of times when you need to access an app's prefs, whether to back them up before doing a reinstal, or to delete them to 'fix' misbehaving programs. in the olden days you just scrolled through the list of prefs looking for the one which matched the name of the app in question. now you have to know the web address of the company which made the app [not always as obvious as you'd think] and then look for this backward with the app name hopefully tagged on the end.

thankfully a lot of developers have ignored this idiocy and stuck with naming their preferences in the ol' fashioned way.

[leperkuhn]

Originally posted by m a d r a:
personally, if we're talking 'stoopid' things about the file structure in mac OSX, i reckon the dumbest thing has to be the convention whereby prefs files should be named so they begin with the reverse ordered domain name of the company which makes the app in question. eg. "com.apple.finder.plist"

just a guess, but are you sure com isnt short for "computer"?

[m a d r a]

Originally posted by leperkuhn:
just a guess, but are you sure com isnt short for "computer"?

no it's the domain backwards, coz subethaedit's prefs [actually a good one to illustrate my point about being knackered if you don't know the domain name] are labelled "de.codingmonkeys.SubEthaEdit.plist"

[tooki]

The "com.apple.finder.prefs.plist" format is borrowed from Java.

It makes a lot of sense, providing a hierarchical, structured name for preferences.

tooki

[Mediaman_12]

Re: non package based apps. Is there any way of converting there 'container folder' to work like a .app package?
eg. Photoshop lives in a folder surrounded by the rest of the stuff to make it work, (plugin folders etc.) is there any way to transform the 'Adobe Photoshop CS' folder to launch the app when clicked?

[m a d r a]

Originally posted by tooki:
The "com.apple.finder.prefs.plist" format is borrowed from Java.

It makes a lot of sense, providing a hierarchical, structured name for preferences.

tooki

it might make a lot of sense for developers, but not for end users [refer to my subethaedit example above and tell me what's sensible or user-friendly about that]

[Brass]

Originally posted by m a d r a:
it might make a lot of sense for developers, but not for end users [refer to my subethaedit example above and tell me what's sensible or user-friendly about that]

I agree that it's not immediately user friendly. However, the reasoning is good. It is to provide a means of being sure that each application's prefs file has a unique name, so that they don't klobber each other, and don't have to register in some central database to be able to use the name.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by m a d r a:
personally, if we're talking 'stoopid' things about the file structure in mac OSX, i reckon the dumbest thing has to be the convention whereby prefs files should be named so they begin with the reverse ordered domain name of the company which makes the app in question. eg. "com.apple.finder.plist"

what genius thought that one up? - there are plenty of times when you need to access an app's prefs, whether to back them up before doing a reinstal, or to delete them to 'fix' misbehaving programs. in the olden days you just scrolled through the list of prefs looking for the one which matched the name of the app in question. now you have to know the web address of the company which made the app [not always as obvious as you'd think] and then look for this backward with the app name hopefully tagged on the end.

I just navigate to ~/Library/Preferences and type the name of the app into the search field. Easy as pie, and at least as fast as scrolling alphabetically through a few hundred files.