[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by Nodnarb

...all natural tofu eating tree loving hippes...

Those fools still drink organic wine

[IceEnclosure]

Originally Posted by Volks

That's just it. Eating is not an "experience" for many people. I prefer not to have my food handled by others preparing it to be eaten. Eating at a 4 star restaurant has zero value to me. "Art on a plate" or food pornography is not very appealing. Clean, raw food with no salt, sugar, or spices is the best.

But getting back to the orignial topic, the alcohol in wine damages your body. Alcohol is a poison. Why would you choose to ingest a poison?

wow, you seem like a lot of fun. I mean A LOT.

You do know your views are shared by, I'd guess about 1% of the world.

No seasonings? no spices? only raw food? please.

Ingesting poison? jeebus.

your food handled by others? UH-OH!!

have fun with yourself.

[Volks]

At crucial points in the novel, a twitch occurs, and Jack assigns it significant importance. Later in the novel, Jack briefly espouses the belief that all life is "The Great Twitch".

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by Volks

Actually, most of the world doesn't eat meat or dairy products. Seasonings and salt are okay in tiny amounts, but mostly they are used to cover up food spoilage or overprocessing. Raw food is the absolute best thing you can eat. it's been proven over and over again. Cooking food destroys nutritional content. There is only two things that cooking really does: improves the flavor of meat, and kills parasites on meat. Why would you want to eat something covered in parasites anyway?

Yes alcohol is a poison. Even in tiny quantities it can damage your organs. Getting drunk is your body's reaction to this poison. Any doctor will tell you that alcohol causes brain cell damage, cirrosis of the liver, amongst other things. Water doesn't poison you. You will physically stop drinking water before your body becomes overwatered. But many people die each year from drinking just a little too much alcohol.

The point of this post wasn't to talk about my lifestyle, but to provide another view of wine/alcohol that the biased media wishes to convey to people. The idea that a little wine is okay is about as ludicrous as the idea that drinking a little bit of anti-freeze is okay too. Both will produce bodily damage. The studies on wine and health are flawed, unproven, and conflicting.

Have a fun life!

Everything is a poison in large enough quantities.

Athletes actually suffer water intoxication regularly. They drink too much water during an event, blood plasma goes up, salt content in their blood dilutes. Blood, brain, and muscle function can be affected—death is a possible outcome of hyponatremia. So maybe you should stop drinking water.

[Volks]

Originally Posted by Stradlater

Have a fun life!

Everything is a poison in large enough quantities.

Athletes actually suffer water intoxication regularly. They drink too much water during an event, blood plasma goes up, salt content in their blood dilutes. Blood, brain, and muscle function can be affected. So maybe you should stop drinking water.

Even if your point was valid, which it isn't, alcohol damages/poisons anyone who drinks it even in minute quantities. The poisonous effects of alcohol are felt immediately.

[nredman]

there are many things that hurt your body, i think not drinking alcohol is great...to each his own.

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by Volks

Even if your point was valid, which it isn't, alcohol damages/poisons your body in minute quantities.

Why not actually rebut my ex. if it's wrong? Oh you can't?

Bring something to the table. Explain to me how a single beer or single glass of wine can significantly damage an adult human body.

[Demonhood]

Originally Posted by Volks

Even if your point was valid, which it isn't, alcohol damages/poisons anyone who drinks it even in minute quantities. The poisonous effects of alcohol are felt immediately.

no, his point is valid. now stop derailing this thread.

[nredman]

their riesling is great (in my opinion)

[Volks]

At crucial points in the novel, a twitch occurs, and Jack assigns it significant importance. Later in the novel, Jack briefly espouses the belief that all life is "The Great Twitch".

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by Volks

His point isn't valid. It is not common for athletes to suffer water poisoning. His point is ridiculous and an overexaggerated attempt to put up any defense whatsoever for his preference for alcohol regardless of the medical facts and social implications. The facts are that wine is a poison, and that the lifestyle myth of wine greatly contributes to alcohol use. The real social implications of alcohol use are cirme, cross use of drugs, and accidents both non-fatal and fatal.

http://www.ms-se.com/pt/re/msse/abst...856145!9001!-1

29% at the end of this race. Uncommon indeed.

Now pay up with some evidence of your own.

[Volks]

At crucial points in the novel, a twitch occurs, and Jack assigns it significant importance. Later in the novel, Jack briefly espouses the belief that all life is "The Great Twitch".

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by Volks

First of all, the effects of hyponatremia are not from water, but from loss of salt.

from the article: "fluid overload was the cause of most (73%) cases of severe, symptomatic hyponatremia."

there's a reason why it's also called "water intoxication"

Let us underscore this statement: Hyponatremia is a common biochemical finding in ultradistance triathletes but is usually asymptomatic. You do not even quote the figures in this study accurately, as it is 18% not 29%.

Sorry, this was just one of the links I found, and I thought it was still referring to the same race. 18% is still a lot, but 30ish% of the runners in Ironman Competitions in Hawaii from 1985-1989 suffered from water intoxication.

How many athletes are ultradistance triathletes who run 42.2 km? Not many. 18% certainly doesn't apply to all athletes. I don't need to show more how you take an extreme example as a defense.

Normal consumption of water won't hurt you. And normal consumption of alcohol (a glass or two a day) won't, either. Still waiting for some mouthmoney.

But alcohol affects everyone, young and old. Even a tiny amount of alcohol produces scientifically measurable results respeatedly, affecting the liver, kidneys, and heart. And they don't need to run 42.2 km to prove it either.

Affecting, perhaps. Damaging? No.

[X-Ray]

[QUOTE=Volks]That's just it. Eating is not an "experience" for many people. I prefer not to have my food handled by others preparing it to be eaten. Eating at a 4 star restaurant has zero value to me. "Art on a plate" or food pornography is not very appealing. Clean, raw food with no salt, sugar, or spices is the best.

H-m-m-m ...http://www.drweil.com/u/QA/QA357082/

[IceEnclosure]

I'm drinking a little Johnnie Walker Black Label at the mo

3 cubes, short pour.

[Cubeoid]

Originally Posted by X-Ray

H-m-m-m ...http://www.drweil.com/u/QA/QA357082/

How does a man become a brand?! His name is a trademark. I find that strange.

Back to wine.. and health etc..

Raw foods and desires for overly healthy lifestyles stem from insecurities and fears you have.. Food and drink should be enjoyed, you only live once, everything is ok in moderation.. and everything can be concidered "poison" in excess. Wine is a social lubricant, it relaxes people and creates a pleasent atmosphere, and is enjoyed by people the world over.

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by X-Ray

Originally Posted by Volks

That's just it. Eating is not an "experience" for many people. I prefer not to have my food handled by others preparing it to be eaten. Eating at a 4 star restaurant has zero value to me. "Art on a plate" or food pornography is not very appealing. Clean, raw food with no salt, sugar, or spices is the best.

H-m-m-m ...http://www.drweil.com/u/QA/QA357082/

That's all, volks!

[Stradlater]

Topic...


I've had good luck with these, too. Good, affordable, and widely-available.

[Warung]

Originally Posted by Volks

Yes alcohol is a poison. Even in tiny quantities it can damage your organs.

There have been quite a few studies that have shown that when consumed in small amounts (a glass or so at dinner time), wine is actually pretty healthy.

[saddino]

Originally Posted by X-Ray

H-m-m-m ...http://www.drweil.com/u/QA/QA357082/

Classic!

Another disadvantage stems from the fact that many of the natural toxins in edible roots, seeds, stems and leaves are destroyed by cooking. Alfalfa sprouts contain canavanine, a natural toxin that can harm the immune system; button mushrooms contain natural carcinogens, and celery produces psoralens, compounds that sensitize the skin to the harmful effects of ultraviolet radiation in sunlight. All of these are broken down by simple cooking. Although our bodies have natural defenses against these toxins, a raw food diet can add to the toxic load we’re already dealing with.

So it looks like Volks voluntarily ingests more toxins via his/her diet than the average wine drinker.

[Volks]

At crucial points in the novel, a twitch occurs, and Jack assigns it significant importance. Later in the novel, Jack briefly espouses the belief that all life is "The Great Twitch".

[bells0]

My new thing is wine, is interesting trying all the differennt styles, and gets me tipsy at the same time!

Deffo prefer a bit of Red to White, though don't mind a nice Reisling or Sauv blanc.

Red wine of choice at the mo is the Ravenswood 'Lodi' Zinfandel - 2000 vintage:


Ravenswood Lodi


Nice bit of spice and kick to it! Otherwise a Beringer Stone Cellar Merlot is easy to chug down!

Just put an application in to join the Uk wine society too: Wine society - i plan to do their wine plan and pay a monthly direct debit and start a cellar collection that should be drinkable in 3/4 years time

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Volks

His point isn't valid. It is not common for athletes to suffer water poisoning.

Yes, it is. It happens at least once at every sporting event (football game, basketball game, soccer, etc.). It causes cramps, dizziness, and ultimately a loss of motor function. "They can feel the efects immediately...", heh.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Volks

OMG, you're going to put up an article on eating raw foods by a fat man who likes to wine and dine (and give highly questionable "medical" advice for a profit)?? About as ridiculous as your water intoxication argument. haha. Alcohol damages your body. Spout all the nonsense you like to try to distract people. But it is a medical fact.

You've been destroyed, now away and stop derailing our thread. Shoooo.

[No Time 4 Love Dr. Jones]

I drink it when the social situation or meal calls for it, but don't particularly like it...well, the fancy stuff, anyway. I've never met a soul who couldn't down a bottle of Riunite.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Volks

Even if your point was valid, which it isn't, alcohol damages/poisons anyone who drinks it even in minute quantities. The poisonous effects of alcohol are felt immediately.

This is absolute rubbish. Alcohol, in moderate quantities, helps with the prevention of heart disease and strokes.

Anyway, back on topic. I like big reds, especially in winter. The kind of stuff where one glass will last you an hour, just because the flavour is so intense.

[wdlove]

No I don't drink wine. Cannot stand the taste of alcohol. My wife love's wine, it also has a medicinal purpose.

[olePigeon]

I drink wine and eat great food because it's awesome. I like how they taste, I like how I feel after a great meal. Drinking 1 glass a day and I'll still (as far as I can tell) live to be 90 years old.

I honestly don't think that limiting yourself to an all vegetable diet, or worse, raw food diet is going to amount to any real benefit by the time you kick the bucket.

Maybe people do live longer on veggie and raw diets. But you know what? The very second I can't make it to the bathroom on time, PLEASE, just freakin' kill me. I don't need to spend an another 10 years waring Depends and being helped to the crapper.

I'm gonna have my cheeseburger and beer, thanks. I mean wine.

[yukon]

That was really funny, quoting Dr. Weil to prove a point, I didn't even have to look at the link. And no, its not funny because he's "not perfectly scientific!", but because he has controversy, like quoting Fox News about the Iraq War. I have read that wine can be healthy in small amounts (a glass a day), specifically red for people who have high blood pressure.

I grew up with wine being around, just checking wine out now. Watched a few documentaries on it. So far, I dislike the spicy reds (proving I'm a wine "newbie" apparently), and I have to say I do like a medium-dry riesling because of the flavour. Tried a horribly cheap sauvignon blanc, it wasn't bad but wasn't special, something to upgrade next time. I have liked red wines in the past, but that was before I cared much to know which they were unfortunatly.

Wine is like many things. It's something that a lot of people enjoy. I knew too little about it. I enjoyed when I tried it, and now I have something new to enjoy and explore.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by yukon

Wine is like many things. It's something that a lot of people enjoy. I knew too little about it. I enjoyed when I tried it, and now I have something new to enjoy and explore.

Bah. The only way I'll eat cellary sticks is with Bleu Cheese...









... and Buffolo Wings! Mabye some steak fries. And a beer.

[ReggieX]

Red. I found a couple of good French reds I like, but one I can't get anymore. I'm going to have to find out what happened to it...

I had some amazing wine at a steakhouse downtown here, Barberian's, and the wine was $250/bottle! It was DAMN good.

[Monique]

White from the Napa and Sonoma valleys. I do not have a favorite brand just I love to try new brands each time from those regions. And I love chocolate. Eating is truly a great pleasure for the majority of people.

[smacintush]

Shiraz.

For me wine and beer (real beer, not Budweiser or Coors light type crap) are far better enjoyed with a good meal.

[Nai no Kami]

Originally Posted by Warung

Red wine from Argentina or Chile is my favorite at the moment.

Here we have really good wines and wine (esp. fine to "very-fine" wines) consumption has been boosted here in the last years. I like reds mostly. I'm keeping a bottle of Familia Rutini for a weekend meeting with friends and prosciutto, brie, and maybe some trout fumée. I also love the syrah of Fincas La Anita.

[G Barnett]

Egri Bikaver from Hungary. Great red wine. For white, if I can ever find the stuff, Tamyanka from Bulgaria is exquisite. Eastern European wines are highly, highly underrated.

G Barnett

[waxcrash]

I like wine, however I drink it infrequently because it is expensive.

In the United States, a good wine is expensive compared to other parts of the world such as Europe. A decent wine that costs $20 in the U.S. can be bought for around the equivalent of $5 in Europe. When I have friends come to visit from Europe, they are amazed how expensive wine is in the states.

Reds…I like Australian Shiraz.

Whites…I like Riesling and Pinot Grigio.

Champagne…Veuve Clicquot.

[dialo]

It's easy to get good italian reds for <$15 in the US. The only trick is making sure you get it from places that have stored it properly. I drink red wine every day and rarely spend more than $15 a bottle. More often it's $10 or less. Then again, I live in Chicago and have a ton of different options to choose from.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by waxcrash

I like wine, however I drink it infrequently because it is expensive.

In the United States, a good wine is expensive compared to other parts of the world such as Europe. A decent wine that costs $20 in the U.S. can be bought for around the equivalent of $5 in Europe. When I have friends come to visit from Europe, they are amazed how expensive wine is in the states.

Reds…I like Australian Shiraz.

Whites…I like Riesling and Pinot Grigio.

Champagne…Veuve Clicquot.

That depends on where in Europe. In the UK a $5.00 bottle of wine is only good for stripping paint - $15 is the absolute minimum. In Sweden you'll get laughed at, the cheapest drinkable wine you can get is around $25 a bottle.

Even in France and Germany $5.00 won't get you much. A cheap and cheerful table wine yes, but nothing great. Wine prices in the US are actually pretty low.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by waxcrash

I like wine, however I drink it infrequently because it is expensive.

In the United States, a good wine is expensive compared to other parts of the world such as Europe. A decent wine that costs $20 in the U.S. can be bought for around the equivalent of $5 in Europe. When I have friends come to visit from Europe, they are amazed how expensive wine is in the states.

Reds…I like Australian Shiraz.

Whites…I like Riesling and Pinot Grigio.

Champagne…Veuve Clicquot.

There are good $5 wines around. If you like Shiraz try Delicato. It's very good and it's like $5-$6.

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by Volks

OMG, you're going to put up an article on eating raw foods by a fat man who likes to wine and dine (and give highly questionable "medical" advice for a profit)?? About as ridiculous as your water intoxication argument. haha. Alcohol damages your body. Spout all the nonsense you like to try to distract people. But it is a medical fact.

I didn't put up an article; I quoted for emphasis. The article was brought up by yet another person in this thread that can't believe the boringly ignorant lifestyle you lead.

Your lack of evidence continues to demote any argument you may have.

It's a medical fact that too much wine or two much water can kill you.

It's also a medical fact that a moderate serving of wine or water is good for you. It's common knowledge in the medical field.

You haven't yet convinced a single person in this thread of anything. Stay out if your teetotaling self can't handle the facts.

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by smacintush

There are good $5 wines around. If you like Shiraz try Delicato. It's very good and it's like $5-$6.

Good $5–6 wine is unfortunately becoming more and more of a rarity. A few years ago, I'd agree with you, but nowadays $7 is often the minimum you should expect paying in stores for a truly enjoyable wine. $10–15 can yield a fantastic wine. Wine that's more expensive than this is usually quite good, but rarely worth it (maybe for a special occasion).

Good deals can usually be found with wines from Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa (though these prices are slowly going up as people catch on).

[malvolio]

Not a wino on a regular basis, but I do enjoy the occasional glass of port or sherry.
In our younger and dumber days, my buds and I used to get smashed on Richard's Peach wine. Truly nasty stuff!
And I can remember when Mateus Rosé was all the rage. Don't ask me why.

[Judge_Fire]

"Wine Collector" - works with Mac OS X
And features "Autofill"

J

[Demonhood]

i can't believe a wine cataloging program costs $200.

just picked up 3 more whites this week. i shall report back after i drink half a bottle tonight.

[Judge_Fire]

Well, it does contain the reader, but it's still a bit steep.

J

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Volks

Even if your point was valid, which it isn't, alcohol damages/poisons anyone who drinks it even in minute quantities. The poisonous effects of alcohol are felt immediately.

You are wrong in generalizing so broadly. Alcohol in moderation (as in one or two glasses of wine with a meal) is not particularly harmful and appears to have some specific helpful properties that may not be related to the source of the alcohol (i.e. red wine).

Further, many nutrients are poisonous. Iodine is critical to production of thyroid hormones, so much so that one must consume it fairly regularly or suffer from goiter, yet too much of it is toxic. Water intoxication is indeed a real issue and DOES sometimes result in death-do not poo-poo it. Further, your body produces some really toxic substances all by itself, such as concentrated hydrochloric acid-which by the way breaks down alcohol in the stomach fairly quickly and noticably lessens the alcohol passed into the blood stream for those of us who drink a bit of wine with our dinners.

Your philosophical reasons for eating raw (be sure it isn't contaminated by salmonella or something else since you won't kill those contaminants by cooking the food) are YOURS, and you will not convince anyone else to even respect them, let alone share them if you are so strident about them. I'm an omnivore because humans are omnivores and I have not seen a real reason for ME to change.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Demonhood

i can't believe a wine cataloging program costs $200.

just picked up 3 more whites this week. i shall report back after i drink half a bottle tonight.

DH posting with a buzz... this could be interesting.

I expect random bannings.

[Cubeoid]

It's been some time. I wager he drank the entire bottle and passed out.

[Demonhood]

only 2/3rds
it was flavorful but lacked bite. it did not appreciably aid me in my game of pictionary.