[bells0]

I know it's something foreigners often complain of when hitting the Uk, but as of last night our local watering holes are allowed to open and serve the amber nectar round the clock!

Not sure just how many places will actually do this?

My local pub accross the road [live in a small village] has a 1am license now [from 11pm] which is handy for the weekend

[moonmonkey]

What about off licenses, has that changed too?

[Mediaman_12]

Originally Posted by moonmonkey

What about off licenses, has that changed too?

Yep. Anywhere can apply for a 24 hour licence, infact most of the places that have gone for the full 24 hour are supermarkets.

[ism]

Why couldn't this have happened a few years ago when I was single and not settled down!

Ah well. I hope more local pubs go for it. I reckon the nightclubs will take a hit from it; the only reason people put up with cruddy nightclubs is so they can drink later.

[Hugi]

Ahhh, finally, this should make trips to London much more satisfying .

[Doofy]

This will be bad.

It'll screw the local social scene up no end. Everyone going to the club when the pubs close was a feature of the weekend - if the clubs take a hit on this they'll close. Less opportunity for widening one's social circle if you're sat in the same old pub with the same old people.

Local pubs will also take a hit. Expenses (bar staff) will increase, revenue will remain static (because Blair is already taxing us to death). That equation doesn't work out.

As far as I'm concerned, the only positive point in this is that folks can get beer when they do Tesco at 3 in the morning.

[nath]

Originally Posted by ism

Why couldn't this have happened a few years ago when I was single and not settled down!

Ah well. I hope more local pubs go for it. I reckon the nightclubs will take a hit from it; the only reason people put up with cruddy nightclubs is so they can drink later.

Local (i.e. non-urban) pubs will probably find it difficult due to resident's objections. Maybe in a couple of years once the Daily Mail-led hysteria has calmed down.

Agree about the clubs. Decent clubs with a loyal clientele that people go to for music/dancing won't be badly affected - however Ritzy-type venues could well be decimated since the only reason a lot of people go there is to drink more. Probably a good thing.

Originally Posted by Doofy

Local pubs will also take a hit. Expenses (bar staff) will increase, revenue will remain static (because Blair is already taxing us to death). That equation doesn't work out.

If the equation doesn't work out, then the landlords concerned just won't do it. Simple as that. It's not a compulsory scheme!

[bells0]

Can see positive and negative sides to it.

Negative - the complete thick, brain-dead chavs drinking even more and fighting breaking out even more. Which is more cost to the NHS and puts off people like me going into the city centre.

But - maybe now the pub doesn't shut at 11, they can use their pea for a brain and pace themselves [not likely i know!]

Postitive - great for shift workers and if i ever happen to be awake enough to want to go out past 2am and have a drink.

I can't honestly see Brits taking the Euro approach and going out at midnight for a drink. All can see is the normal start at 6/7 and keep goin until you can't stand because there is no closing time.

Time will tell.

[bells0]

Originally Posted by nath

Local (i.e. non-urban) pubs will probably find it difficult due to resident's objections. Maybe in a couple of years once the Daily Mail-led hysteria has calmed down.

Agree about the clubs. Decent clubs with a loyal clientele that people go to for music/dancing won't be badly affected - however Ritzy-type venues could well be decimated since the only reason a lot of people go there is to drink more. Probably a good thing.



If the equation doesn't work out, then the landlords concerned just won't do it. Simple as that. It's not a compulsory scheme!

I don't think many local pubs in small towns/villages will take up 24 hour opening.

Our local has got a 1am shut. Think anything past this needs all local residents to agree upon, which aint gonna happen in many places outside a city centre, and why my landlord didn't even attempt to apply.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by nath

If the equation doesn't work out, then the landlords concerned just won't do it. Simple as that. It's not a compulsory scheme!

Independent landlords who don't do it stand a good chance of being driven to the wall by the chain pubs.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by bells0

I don't think many local pubs in small towns/villages will take up 24 hour opening.

Our local has got a 1am shut. Think anything past this needs all local residents to agree upon, which aint gonna happen in many places outside a city centre, and why my landlord didn't even attempt to apply.

1am is still too late for pubs in residential areas to shut. That's what, average of 5 hours sleep for the light sleepers in the area before they have to get up at 6? Lots of tired folks driving to work first thing in the morning ain't gonna lower the accident rate.

As far as I'm concerned, this is another badly thought-out bit of social engineering from Labour. But, in the interests of balance, I'm prepared to see how it pans out over the next few months.

[nath]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Independent landlords who don't do it stand a good chance of being driven to the wall by the chain pubs.

How? Most of the chain pubs are only opening for an hour longer (and even then on an experimental basis) because of the staff costs you're talking about.

That's entirely affordable for an indie to compete with, and even if they choose not to, they're not going to lose all their customers for the sake of one extra hour's drinking.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by nath

How? Most of the chain pubs are only opening for an hour longer (and even then on an experimental basis) because of the staff costs you're talking about.

If that's the case, then I'll stand corrected.

We'll see how it goes.

[analogika]

Give it a year or two and see how it pans out.

[Mastrap]

It'll all work out just fine, like in all the other places on teh globe where you can get a drink late.

Now why the fark didn't this happen when I lived in the UK? I hated being kicked out of the pub at 11.00. You were having a good time with yer mates, and bang, closing time.

[SimeyTheLimey]

I wonder if people will just start going out later? Back in my pub crawling days (i.e. sixth form), the main reason we would start at 7 or so was because the pubs closed at 11. Compare that to bars in the US or even places like Germany where they close much later, but are usually dead until 10 or so.

As I understand the history, the reason the 11pm closing time was introduced in the first place was during World War I, when there was a worry that people out too late drinking wouldn't be productive in the arms factories. I doubt people drank any less because of the change, they just drank earlier. Probably allowing later drinking will just shift the party to later in the evening.

Another issue is that I think this will probably reduce late night violence. Shutting all the pubs at one time is a really dumb idea. Emptying the pubs all at one time so you suddenly get a swarm of pissed up young men pissed off at being thrown out early (as Mastrap points out). That always seemed to be a spark for fights. Much better to allow people to go home naturally in dribs and drabs when they are done.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Now why the fark didn't this happen when I lived in the UK? I hated being kicked out of the pub at 11.00. You were having a good time with yer mates, and bang, closing time.

IIRC, you also hated living next to a club with extended drinking hours.

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

As I understand the history, the reason the 11pm closing time was introduced in the first place was during World War I, when there was a worry that people out too late drinking wouldn't be productive in the arms factories.

Correct.

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

I doubt people drank any less because of the change, they just drank earlier. Probably allowing later drinking will just shift the party to later in the evening.

Party later in the evening + work starts next day at a fixed time = less sleep & more alcohol content in blood when going to work = more accidents & less productivity.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Party later in the evening + work starts next day at a fixed time = less sleep & more alcohol content in blood when going to work = more accidents & less productivity.

Only if you drink yourself to a stupor on a weeknight or Sunday.

Isn't this kind of a strange position for you to be taking? You have always struck me as being leery of excessive government regulation. Don't you trust the people to make rational decisions without the heavy hand of the state telling them what to do?

[nath]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

Isn't this kind of a strange position for you to be taking? You have always struck me as being leery of excessive government regulation. Don't you trust the people to make rational decisions without the heavy hand of the state telling them what to do?

It's an explicitly Labour policy, Simey. Promised in two successive manifestos to try and stop students from voting Lib Dem, and opposed by the Tories, The Daily Mail and...Doofy.

[monkeybrain]

It's gotta be a good thing in the long run, although at first it's likely to be very bad. Maybe in a generation our whole attitude to drinking will be more mature and like our continental friends. The old law treated people like kids, and they acted like it. The new law treats people like adults, finally.

My Mum was all against it of course. But she probably didn't realise that where she lives, up in the Lake District, there was only two pubs that opened late. So come 11.30 pm all tourists, locals got crammed into those on a Friday/Saturday and in those pubs was the concentration of drugs, violence etc. Now people will be spread out and the chance of violence will be considerably lowered. I also think that with normal pubs opening later there will be less incidents of drunken confrontations with bouncers, which has got to be a sauce of considerable violence.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by monkeybrain

sauce of considerable violence.

Well, the booze is probably the sauce of considerable violence.

Great malapropism!

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

Isn't this kind of a strange position for you to be taking?

It is rather, isn't it?

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

You have always struck me as being leery of excessive government regulation.

Yep. However... ...I'm not convinced that this is a good idea at all. I don't get where this government is coming from - there has to be an underlying reason for their actions beyond what we're being told (there always is with Labour). I mean, this is the government which, a few weeks ago, decided to introduce an alcohol ban on public transport. What's going on? Where are they attempting to take us?

Notice that as part of this new law, all pubs had to reapply for their licences. 500 page document/form or something like that. What are Labour playing at? What's their real angle on this?

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

Don't you trust the people to make rational decisions without the heavy hand of the state telling them what to do?

In some instances, no. Like with using mobile phones whilst driving - that needed restrictive legislation, for sure (I'm one of the better drivers out there (even if I do say so myself) and I can't use a mobile without seriously affecting my driving. I don't know how other folks think they can cope).
Sorry to say it, but most people are stupid sheep (evidenced by Microsoft's market share in OS wares). Sometimes they can't be trusted to make rational decisions.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Yep. However... ...I'm not convinced that this is a good idea at all. I don't get where this government is coming from - there has to be an underlying reason for their actions beyond what we're being told (there always is with Labour). I mean, this is the government which, a few weeks ago, decided to introduce an alcohol ban on public transport. What's going on? Where are they attempting to take us?

Notice that as part of this new law, all pubs had to reapply for their licences. 500 page document/form or something like that. What are Labour playing at? What's their real angle on this?



In some instances, no. Like with using mobile phones whilst driving - that needed restrictive legislation, for sure (I'm one of the better drivers out there (even if I do say so myself) and I can't use a mobile without seriously affecting my driving. I don't know how other folks think they can cope).
Sorry to say it, but most people are stupid sheep (evidenced by Microsoft's market share in OS wares). Sometimes they can't be trusted to make rational decisions.

Well, first off, pub liberalization has been bouncing around as an idea for years. The Thatcher government introduced liberalized hours back in the 80s. Did you oppose it then?

Second, do you have any evidence that the UK has lower violence, accidents, or higher productivity as a result of closing bars at 11 than a country like, say, the US which does not?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by nath

It's an explicitly Labour policy, Simey. Promised in two successive manifestos to try and stop students from voting Lib Dem

That doesn't hold water (or beer). Perhaps if they wanted to keep the student vote they wouldn't have introduced top-up fees?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

Well, first off, pub liberalization has been bouncing around as an idea for years. The Thatcher government introduced liberalized hours back in the 80s. Did you oppose it then?

Yep. At pub closing time all the chicks would all go to one or two clubs resulting in "target rich environments".

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

Second, do you have any evidence that the UK has lower violence, accidents, or higher productivity as a result of closing bars at 11 than a country like, say, the US which does not?

No, but we can't compare due to other social factors. Most social life in the UK in centred around the pub, while AFAIK this is not the case in the US (i.e. they actually do other things to amuse themselves).

[nath]

Originally Posted by Doofy

That doesn't hold water (or beer). Perhaps if they wanted to keep the student vote they wouldn't have introduced top-up fees?

Well, exactly. IIRC, it appeared in the same manifesto as top-up fees.

Anyway, as others have pointed out, uniform closing time is what seems to cause most of the drink-related violence. That and thousand of pissed-up punters barging each other out of the way to be the first into Ritzy's to carry on drinking.

[nath]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Most social life in the UK in centred around the pub, while AFAIK this is not the case in the US (i.e. they actually do other things to amuse themselves).

Freaks.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by nath

Anyway, as others have pointed out, uniform closing time is what seems to cause most of the drink-related violence. That and thousand of pissed-up punters barging each other out of the way to be the first into Ritzy's to carry on drinking.

So, the problem is only solved if all pubs open 24/7 then... ...because when the 1am pubs close the punters will go to the 2am pub, then the 3am pub. And so on until they find the latest opening one. Which they'll all try to get into, barging each other out of the way in the process. ??

BTW... ...this new law doesn't affect me in the slightest (since I'll be leaving here soon anyways) and never really would have affected me in the past either (there was always a private party going on when you needed one). I'm just interested in the social ramifications of it.

[nath]

Originally Posted by Doofy

So, the problem is only solved if all pubs open 24/7 then...

But nobody is saying that. Nobody has ever said that, even. The idea is that allowing pubs to choose when they close, and punters to choose when and where they drink, will diffuse the current bottleneck which causes chaos across the country every night at 11.

Originally Posted by Doofy

BTW... ...this new law doesn't affect me in the slightest (since I'll be leaving here soon anyways)

God, it's like listening to Phil Collins in the 80s...just go already!

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by nath

But nobody is saying that. Nobody has ever said that, even. The idea is that allowing pubs to choose when they close, and punters to choose when and where they drink, will diffuse the current bottleneck which causes chaos across the country every night at 11.

Wetherspoons has already stated that it's going to open until 12. So we'll have a bottleneck which causes chaos across the country at 12. Good stuff.

Originally Posted by nath

God, it's like listening to Phil Collins in the 80s...just go already!

I'm going. Looking for a suitable property at the moment.
Yer can shove yer leftie country up yer bum!

[nath]

Originally Posted by Doofy

I'm going. Looking for a suitable property at the moment.

Mind if I ask which haven from socialism you're fleeing to?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by nath

Mind if I ask which haven from socialism you're fleeing to?

Yes. I'll let you know when I get there.
(There's actually a couple of countries I'm looking at - it depends on which one I find a suitable property in. They're both tax havens which nobody ever thinks about, bar the people who live there.)

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Yes. I'll let you know when I get there.
(There's actually a couple of countries I'm looking at - it depends on which one I find a suitable property in. They're both tax havens which nobody ever thinks about, bar the people who live there.)

Tax havens? I like the sound of that. What are their drinking laws like?

[nonhuman]

Are the new license already in effect? I'm going to be in London in a couple weeks, and it would be nice if they didn't kick me out of the bars at 11 again.

Any Londoners know if there are any pubs in Westminster applying for 24 hr licenses? My office is literally right next door to MI5, and I'll be staying in a hotel on the Westminster side of Vauxhall bridge (Day's Inn, I think).

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by nonhuman

Are the new license already in effect?

From today.

Originally Posted by nonhuman

Any Londoners know if there are any pubs in Westminster applying for 24 hr licenses? My office is literally right next door to MI5, and I'll be staying in a hotel on the Westminster side of Vauxhall bridge (Day's Inn, I think).

IIRC, there's very few pubs actually applied for 24 hour - only about 300 in the entire country. Most seem to have gone for :slightly later".

But hey, Westminster - your chances are good. Wouldn't want our politicians not being able to get a drink after a long night debating, would we?

[Diggory Laycock]

New licences came into effect at midnight last night - You should have no problem finding a pub that will stay open until at least 1am.

You can find out who has applied for a later licence here:

http://www3.westminster.gov.uk/licensingapplications/

Choose 'Millbank' as the street

[nath]

Originally Posted by nonhuman

Any Londoners know if there are any pubs in Westminster applying for 24 hr licenses? My office is literally right next door to MI5, and I'll be staying in a hotel on the Westminster side of Vauxhall bridge (Day's Inn, I think).

There's a few late-closing Westminster places listed here: http://www.viewlondon.co.uk/home_fea..._drinklate.asp

I've been looking all week for a list of new closing times for London bars, without success (although I'm in Turin this weekend anyway). Let me know if you find anything more up to date!

[Diggory Laycock]

Originally Posted by Doofy

But hey, Westminster - your chances are good. Wouldn't want our politicians not being able to get a drink after a long night debating, would we?

Actually, they never had to worry - the bars in parliament are not licensed, and can stay open for as long as they want. Typical...

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Diggory Laycock

Actually, they never had to worry - the bars in parliament are not licensed, and can stay open for as long as they want.

...or until Prezza has drained them.

[as2]

Just because a pub now has a longer licence doesn't mean they have to stay open that long.

I know that my local has got a 9am till 4am license, but I doubt that they will stay open that long most nights. It just gives them the option for New Years and special occasions without having to apply specifically for those nights.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Doofy

IIRC, you also hated living next to a club with extended drinking hours.

Only because they were bad neighbours. Chucking out the empties at 5:00 am (into a metal container) wasn't the brightest possible move. Not soundproofing the place was another.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by nonhuman

Any Londoners know if there are any pubs in Westminster applying for 24 hr licenses? My office is literally right next door to MI5, and I'll be staying in a hotel on the Westminster side of Vauxhall bridge (Day's Inn, I think).

The bar in the House of Commons is open late. But you need to be accompanied by a member of the house to be able to drink there. The best thing is that only members are allowed to buy drinks, so if you're in there, chances are you're drinking for free. Not that it matters, at £0.90 a pint - the bar is subsidized.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Yes. I'll let you know when I get there.
(There's actually a couple of countries I'm looking at - it depends on which one I find a suitable property in. They're both tax havens which nobody ever thinks about, bar the people who live there.)

Come on, spill the beans already.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

The bar in the House of Commons is open late. But you need to be accompanied by a member of the house to be able to drink there. The best thing is that only members are allowed to buy drinks, so if you're in there, chances are you're drinking for free. Not that it matters, at £0.90 a pint - the bar is subsidized.

90p? Nice. Any chance for a US citizen to become a member?

[Nivag]

Originally Posted by nonhuman

90p? Nice. Any chance for a US citizen to become a member?

probably, we're letting everyone else into the country and sucking the state funded services dry - come on over and join the fun!

[Diggory Laycock]

Originally Posted by nonhuman

90p? Nice. Any chance for a US citizen to become a member?

No representation without taxation... oh hang-on a sec...

[Diggory Laycock]

That was quick - I tried to report the ******cx post, and by the time I hit "report abuse" it was gone - Good work mods!

[ShotgunEd]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Wetherspoons has already stated that it's going to open until 12. So we'll have a bottleneck which causes chaos across the country at 12. Good stuff.

Who drinks in wetherspoons?

no music.

I go out to pubs to see gigs and listen to good music while i imbibe.

If all the wetherspoons shut at 12 then good. Let them all drink their stella and beat each other senseless.

[ghporter]

I have to ask something here. I've read that one idea behind extended pub hours was that the "hard drinkers" tended to start early and drink fast so they could consume a LOT while the pubs were open, which lead to binge drinking and antisocial behavior. I can buy that argument, but I wonder if it was simply overgeneralizing the behavior of certain small groups in certain specific locales. Is it basically stating that the "problem drinkers" are also "football hooligans" and otherwise generally bad drinkers, or is it saying that in general the majority of pubgoers are going to guzzle as fast as possible?

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by ghporter

I have to ask something here. I've read that one idea behind extended pub hours was that the "hard drinkers" tended to start early and drink fast so they could consume a LOT while the pubs were open, which lead to binge drinking and antisocial behavior. I can buy that argument, but I wonder if it was simply overgeneralizing the behavior of certain small groups in certain specific locales. Is it basically stating that the "problem drinkers" are also "football hooligans" and otherwise generally bad drinkers, or is it saying that in general the majority of pubgoers are going to guzzle as fast as possible?

No, that doesn't describe a fringe. It describes a large percentage of regular pub-goers. It certainly would have described me and my friends when I was younger (i.e. 16-21). Binge drinking isn't a problem unique to the UK, but the idea that you need to plan your drinking closely around every moment that the pub is open does seem to be unique. So is the idea of chugging 2 or 3 pints of beer in the last half hour to beat closing time.