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COD: Black Ops thread (Page 13)
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sek929
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Dec 29, 2010, 12:12 PM
 
Hey, I'm always down to play but I'll need a heads up when you guys plan on being on.

I'm finished with T-woods and back to gaming on my iMac, but I'll fire Black Ops up if I know I can get some teammates.
     
The Final Dakar
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Dec 29, 2010, 12:13 PM
 
You're usually pretty good about checking xbox.com. Slacker.
     
Jawbone54
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Dec 30, 2010, 04:55 PM
 
Wasn't sure if I had shared this or not:

Unlucky Bounce Suicide Frag

I knew it had bounced back, but couldn't get a good track on where it was in-game.
     
The Final Dakar
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Dec 31, 2010, 04:31 AM
 
You couldn't do that again if you tried.
     
mattyb
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Dec 31, 2010, 06:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Wasn't sure if I had shared this or not:

Unlucky Bounce Suicide Frag

I knew it had bounced back, but couldn't get a good track on where it was in-game.
Semtex is your friend.
     
Jawbone54
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Dec 31, 2010, 01:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
You couldn't do that again if you tried.
Not a chance.

Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
Semtex is your friend.
I like to bounce frags off walls and let them roll into rooms. I don't have quite the same luck with semtex (but then again, THIS doesn't happen with it).
     
mattyb
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Jan 3, 2011, 05:33 AM
 
I hate playing against cheaters but you've got to appreciate his hacking skillz.

YouTube - Black ops ac130 + other stuff im working on!
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 3, 2011, 08:17 PM
 
So I actually played this online last night. I have to say, the game has really slowed down. You can blame saint and The New Guy partially since they were camping it up, but this is how slow it was: I played three games on Nuketown and only saw spawns switch once. I camped the hell out of the stairs, but only got maybe 5 or 6 kills over the course of those games (indeed, I finished one game 1-0, along with The New Guy, while my team crushed the opposing team by 2 to 3k)

Several games went to time, rather than finish. Seemed lots of opposing teams wanted us to come to them (as we deployed the very same strategy). If this continues, this game might be playable.
     
mattyb
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Jan 4, 2011, 09:12 AM
 
FINALLY got internet sorted at home. I had a quick blast at lunchtime. 3.75 k/d for my second game (first was a 1:2 game when I joined a game with an enemy chopper gunner on jungle less than one minute from the end).

I missed you Black Ops.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 4, 2011, 11:16 AM
 
So apparently the CoD forums are in a state of upheaval. Treyarch's community manager decided to take some time from twitter to actually address all the people dedicated enough to visit the company's own damn forums and the resulting conversation on lag hit fevered pitch. Shall I produce quotes?

Your reports of lag / bad hit detection have been thoroughly investigated by me and engineers, and what I'm telling you here is the truth. The disparity between what you see, and what happens to your opponents is a result of the lag. Some of the guys here at Treyarch them have been doing this stuff for 15+ years... And that doesn't mean they don't make mistakes / bugs (because they do) - but when they do, they identify them, and patch them. This isn't a bug.
JD, there are bugs in Black Ops related to multi-player that were not in any COD prior to it. Maybe you should ask Infinity Ward's network programmers what is wrong with your code, because there is something that is certainly wrong with it. The lag in Black Ops has nothing to do with normal network latency, it is a bug or design flaw.

The hundreds of people who complain about these issues -- issues unique to Black Ops -- on this forum and other forums are not making this up. We can simply play your game and tell there is something dodgy about hit detection/connectivity. People knew something was off in Black Ops multi-player the first week of playing. And remember for every person who actually took the time to complain about the connectivity bugs in your game, there are certainly tens of thousands of others who did not bother to register and post in this forum to complain.

Also this is lag like we have never experienced before, it is systemic to black ops. It is pervasive and does not make for a fun game... these bugs make your game not fair. I will go so far as to say it is broken (my opinion).

I just have one question, because I have a very good connection (I shall provide links for those interested) I tend to be host most of the time. Earlier you pointed out that the lag we were seeing was linked between our connection and the hosts connection. So why does my game always lag and feel 1 second or so behind everyone else, when I'm hosting? Surely in that case everyone else should be lagging as they have to connect to me. I tested this out numerous times and every time I'm host (which is 90% of the time) I lag and on the rare occasion's I'm not the game runs "buttery-smooth". Now what makes it stranger is that, this is the only game I have this problem with.
What you're experiencing is "anti-lag" - a technology introduced to the franchise many many years ago (not just Black Ops). In a world constrained by the physical limitations of networking, everyone in a match will see slightly different things (depending on their Ping - their latency) at slightly different time intervals. These delays are tiny (milliseconds) but in the realm of a twitch-sensitive First-Person-Shooter, the perceptions of these differences can be very impactful. So who's to say, in a given gunfight, what one person saw was "more right" than what the other person saw? Well, the Host is to decide - and with the help of anti-lag, he can make the fairest judgment possible (and not give the favor to either one of the players).

It wouldn't be fair for the Host to be immune from this though, so anti-lag is calculated against his own actions as well. Now, network speeds and latency can fluctuate during a match so these computations aren't always consistent, but the Host's connection is always consistent, so he in-general will always still have a *slight* host advantage, which some people can pick up on, but it's certainly better than nothing...
I also fully understand that yes the connection will fluctuate and all the different variables and so forth. However, what confuses me is that seeing as I am the host most of the time and always have a consistent connection, why do I bear the brunt of the 'anti-lag' so much? that is, instead of giving me "the slight *host* advantage" I am put at a disadvantage. If the green bars were any indication of what everyones in game connection was then it would seem that 3 bars are better than 4! What's even more confusing is that I have never had this " "anti-lag" issue whilst hosting with any of the COD's. I've tested them all out again recently and the only one in which this is an issue is 'Black Ops' so there must be something different.
You're never put at a disadvantage. In-fact, in-general, you'll still have more of an advantage than your counterpart if his connection is worse. The only reason you might think you're at a disadvantage is because you've psyched yourself out. What I mean is, if you know you're host, you're expecting to rock face because everyone thinks "It's great to be host, I'll have such an advantage!" - then when it doesn't happen, you feel like you got robbed. When in reality, you still had a slight edge still anyhow.
I didn't post in here when it happened but this reminds me of some dude that claimed the best way to "game" the anti-lag was to d/l a YouTube video as a game loaded because the system would think your connection sucked and compensate you highly.


I saw a YouTube video where a player loaded a Wager Match in Theater Mode slowed down time, and showed his bullet traveling straight through his opponent's chest in One in the Chamber. Yet his opponent did not die, and winds up getting the kill instead. As you know, One in the Chamber is a One-Shot-Kill game mode, so the natural conclusion is that there is a bug with hit detection. In reality, it's the visual replay that is misleading you.

The explanation lies within networking, and physics. The fact is, your Ping (latency between you and the Host) will affect what you think you see happening, and what actually happens in a match. Because Theater films are based on the Host's recordings of events, the visual disparity between what you see happening in the game from your perspective may differ from another player's (or more importantly, the Host's). This can result in occasions, like my example above, where misleading visual replays occur. Now, thanks to Theater, so many more people can go back, scrutinize, and upload their cases to YouTube and flood social media with questions. Whereas in past games, the debate stopped at shouting "GAH, stupid lag!" over the mic.

...

The Bottom Line: You shouldn't use Killcam or Theater mode as justification for your kills / deaths. They are designed to be fun replay features for the game, not forensic science lab tools to make your case on YouTube and social media.
In essence, don't trust the hosts version of things, and oh yeah, you can't trust your either. Funny, I don't remember Halo getting crucified for lag even though it has Theater mode.
     
exca1ibur
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Jan 4, 2011, 12:56 PM
 
Which goes on to prove what I keep experiencing... worse network code ever and gets worse with each update. LOL I've had instances were I dumped 15 rounds from an M60, and the replay showed I never fired a single round.
     
sek929
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Jan 4, 2011, 03:22 PM
 
I have to say that when I'm host, which happens often enough, I certainly feel as if I have an advantage over everyone just like any other game. If I have an amazing game chances are I'm host.

Agreed with the overall lag/hit detection being inferior to MW2 though, but I'll give the guy props for even bothering to stick up for the game in a forum environment.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 4, 2011, 03:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
I have to say that when I'm host, which happens often enough, I certainly feel as if I have an advantage over everyone just like any other game. If I have an amazing game chances are I'm host.
Yeah, I don't understand people who say host sucks. That happened to me once in MW2. And as I said I was made host in this game I did awesome and trended down... but I was still doing above average for 5 games. Subie has enjoyed host as well.

Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
I'll give the guy props for even bothering to stick up for the game in a forum environment.
No, I won't. When you have dedicated forums for your game that serves as the ideal place to discuss problems, hiding on twitter with it's narrow appeal and character limit is transparently cowardly and/or lazy.
     
sek929
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Jan 4, 2011, 03:46 PM
 
Must've missed that it was twitter, I though the guy was posting directly on the forums.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 4, 2011, 03:48 PM
 
No, you're right that it was on the forums, I'm just saying the guy doesn't deserve any credit for posting in the correct place for once.
     
sek929
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Jan 5, 2011, 12:26 AM
 
Wow, I think my time off from this game was a needed cool-down. Since coming back I haven't lost a match, in fact just tonight with saint and todd I bested my old win streak and now sit at 22 ending on a win. My k/d average for the 6 games we played was 4.85.

Lots of newbies in the lobbies too, which probably has something to do with it.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 5, 2011, 11:06 AM
 
Do you find the games to be moving slower? Because I think that'd be enough.
     
sek929
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Jan 5, 2011, 02:56 PM
 
I find more and more teams are starting to play like us, that is, finding the good spots to hold on the map instead of running in circles like NASCAR.

My favorite game of the night was on WMD. We started in the crappy spawn, but the other team was hell-bent on sniping from the catwalk area, namely the spot that I prefer to snipe from (that little piece of roof). I was able to start the game one shy of attack dogs just focusing on that one area.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 5, 2011, 03:08 PM
 
Makes wonder, did all the WaW spazzes and MW2 haters early adopt Black Ops? Or this just temporary blip until everyone figures the maps out again?
     
sek929
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Jan 5, 2011, 03:13 PM
 
I have no idea, but right now is the golden age of this game.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 6, 2011, 11:40 AM
 
Last night begged to differ, Obecius.
     
Jawbone54
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Jan 6, 2011, 12:41 PM
 
I played about three games last night and got bored. I used to fly solo a lot, but now the game is barely tolerable unless I'm partied up.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 6, 2011, 01:33 PM
 
Welcome to two months ago.

At one point last night I was so frustrated with terrible players I suggested they should have increasing spawn times every 10 deaths. Anything to slow down the guy who don't give a shit if they die 20+ times.
     
sek929
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Jan 6, 2011, 03:47 PM
 
Geez, my win streak came to an abrupt end last night with Dakar, which turned into a 6 game losing streak.
     
mattyb
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Jan 7, 2011, 05:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Geez, my win streak came to an abrupt end last night with Dakar, which turned into a 6 game losing streak.
I know the feeling.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, try the Pure TDM people. No perks or killstreaks or weapon attachments. Simple killing pleasure.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 7, 2011, 10:12 AM
 
I was thinking about it the other night. I guess I'm just afraid to go unsilenced. Is there a mini-map?
     
mattyb
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Jan 7, 2011, 11:39 AM
 
Yup, and you know that everyone will pop-up when they fire. Makes for an interesting game.

I find it easier to play without a group as well.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 7, 2011, 11:43 AM
 
Sounds like it'd be a run and gun fest.
     
mattyb
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Jan 7, 2011, 11:57 AM
 
You get a mix. I was involved in a very campy Nuketown game on Pure last night. Since people have no speed or marathon perk, I don't think that they run around as much as in 'normal' TDM.

You have better game analysis skills than I, I'd be interested how you'd describe the differences. Having been a CoD2 on PC fan I guess that its nostalgia.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 7, 2011, 11:59 AM
 
Well, when I was thinking about it the other night, GoldenEye was what came to mind.

Do you have secondaries? Can you replace them?

On the plus side, ammo should be easier to come by as you no longer have the beyond-flaming attachment limitation.
     
mattyb
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Jan 7, 2011, 12:15 PM
 
Yes, there are secondaries. I swap mine asap, cos if I do the campy bit then moving to go and grab ammo isn't always easy.

The ammo is easier to come by, but I get the impression that you don't get as long as with the little blue bags to actually grab stuff.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 7, 2011, 12:16 PM
 
You see much China Lake usage?
     
mattyb
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Jan 7, 2011, 12:20 PM
 
Only me for a bit. And no, I'm not sure how much more you could pick up for it.

I'd love to continue this, but I have to go home and start drinking. Have a good weekend, I shall be on later.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 7, 2011, 12:34 PM
 
I was out of questions anyway, jerkface.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 10, 2011, 11:03 AM
 
Not that this thread has much life in it, but we were having a discussion about perks last night and I commented that I could live without the majority of perks in BO, which isn't something I could say as easily about MW2.

Also, cheapest perks of all-time? Any game.
     
mattyb
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Jan 10, 2011, 03:27 PM
 
Sorry, I'm stupid. What do you mean by cheapest?

I couldn't play MW2 without Cold Blooded. Ninja ranks up there as well.

Pure don't need no stinking perks.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 10, 2011, 03:33 PM
 
Hated to face.
     
mattyb
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Jan 10, 2011, 04:15 PM
 
Commando in MW2. The knifing reach must have been 20 feet FFS.

One of the things that I like about BO is that there doesn't seem to be an overpowering setup. We didn't have to go through the dual 1887s runner for example.

Actually One Man Army with a noob tube was pretty annoying as well, but then I started using it.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 10, 2011, 04:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
Commando in MW2. The knifing reach must have been 20 feet FFS.
Yeah, but was it really Commando that was at fault. How were these guys getting to you? I mean, if you turn the corner and both of you get caught by surprise, well sure, Commando puts you at a huge disadvantage there. The rest of time?

Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
One of the things that I like about BO is that there doesn't seem to be an overpowering setup. We didn't have to go through the dual 1887s runner for example.
WTF? You could still make the same damn set-up in BO as the Dual 1887ers! And it just happens to be the most broken implementation in the game – the maps are smaller than ever.

Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
Actually One Man Army with a noob tube was pretty annoying as well, but then I started using it.
One Man Army, like most perks, could work if you tweaked correctly. Unlimited switching, including to your own class, with no cooldown, is the dumbest implementation possible. And still wasn't a replacement for Overkill.


To be honest, Black Ops 3rd tier is so bad you could remove it and I'd barely notice.
     
mattyb
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Jan 10, 2011, 06:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Yeah, but was it really Commando that was at fault. How were these guys getting to you? I mean, if you turn the corner and both of you get caught by surprise, well sure, Commando puts you at a huge disadvantage there. The rest of time?
It was the speed knifers that used to piss me off. They'd run around, and I'd hear them. I'd turn around and while they were far away seemed to be able to 'reach out and touch' me. The distance was just too great.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
WTF? You could still make the same damn set-up in BO as the Dual 1887ers! And it just happens to be the most broken implementation in the game – the maps are smaller than ever.
I was talking in terms of balance overall. Don't you remember how overpowered the 1887s were and how they could take you out from far away? They actually toned down the power with a patch. I wasn't just talking about perks there, sorry to digress. BTW those dual HS10s are shite. Nothing like the beasts that the 1887s were originally.

I don't get the feeling that maps are smaller, I get the feeling that there's more in the maps. No long lines of sight. Except for Rust and maybe Scrapyard, you could quite happily snipe every map in MW2. You just don't get the same choke points or unblocked distances in BO. Which IMHO actually makes for a better game overall. What might be interesting to see is the un-nerfing of the snipers (so they could quick scope like in MW2). Scientifically speaking of course.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
One Man Army, like most perks, could work if you tweaked correctly. Unlimited switching, including to your own class, with no cooldown, is the dumbest implementation possible. And still wasn't a replacement for Overkill.
Agreed. You should have been able to change, but to a class that didn't have any of the same weapons or perks as your primary setup. I used to get into the house in Estate or on the balcony of the Villa in Rundown and just noob tube and noob tube the whole game. I could also make the improved claymores (by putting a C4 in front of it) virtually blind I was doing it so much.

I do miss not having a shotgun as secondary though. The pistols aren't different enough. Been having some fun with the crossbow recently though.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
To be honest, Black Ops 3rd tier is so bad you could remove it and I'd barely notice.
Ninja Pro? Can't play without it now.
     
sek929
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Jan 10, 2011, 06:29 PM
 
They've already toned-down the ultra-nerf of quick-scoping quite a bit, in fact, it's only slightly different than it was to begin with in MW2. The maps are, on the whole, a lot less conducive to the type of play that made sniping so very overpowering in MW2. Of course Dakar will tell you, and I agree, that a lot of this is the totally different pace and style of play these BO players bring to the table. Couple that with the gaping hole of no shotgun secondary and it makes sniping a different animal altogether, in fact, I think to be successful at sniping in BO you have to be pretty damned good to begin with.

What makes the crossbow an interesting weapon is its ability to become a very useful defensive tool. I use one on my secondary sniper class and it is very useful when getting attacked to shoot a crossbow at the ground or wall between you and the charging enemy, effectively blocking their path for a few crucial seconds. I also find it to be invaluable on Nuketown.

As for Ninja Pro, do you find that to be worthwhile mattyb? We've been running into more motion sensors as of late, but I can't imagine it'd be terribly practical over longer sprinting distance. Of course if the sounds of enemies running made any goddamn difference in this game I'd use Ninja on every class, just like MW2.
     
mattyb
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Jan 10, 2011, 06:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
They've already toned-down the ultra-nerf of quick-scoping quite a bit, in fact, it's only slightly different than it was to begin with in MW2. The maps are, on the whole, a lot less conducive to the type of play that made sniping so very overpowering in MW2. Of course Dakar will tell you, and I agree, that a lot of this is the totally different pace and style of play these BO players bring to the table. Couple that with the gaping hole of no shotgun secondary and it makes sniping a different animal altogether, in fact, I think to be successful at sniping in BO you have to be pretty damned good to begin with.
Its that little sway before centering that pisses me off when using a sniper. I occassionally setup a sniper class only to remove it a game or so later due to frustration. I've never been one to stay that still I guess, I used to use the snipers aggressively in MW2 and CoD4, just like I did in CoD2 (unless it was HC).

You really think the game-play is that different to MW2? It just seems like the same sorts of combat to me, just different weapons and add-ons. Maybe thats why I like it - its 'comfortable'.

Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
What makes the crossbow an interesting weapon is its ability to become a very useful defensive tool. I use one on my secondary sniper class and it is very useful when getting attacked to shoot a crossbow at the ground or wall between you and the charging enemy, effectively blocking their path for a few crucial seconds. I also find it to be invaluable on Nuketown.
I've been using it like an accurate grenade launcher. I know that it doesn't have the power of the china lake but the satisfaction when you get someone from across the map !!! Yeah, I've gotten a few kills shooting into the upstairs rooms in Nuketown. In Firing Range I've stopped a few tower dwellers as well.

Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
As for Ninja Pro, do you find that to be worthwhile mattyb? We've been running into more motion sensors as of late, but I can't imagine it'd be terribly practical over longer sprinting distance. Of course if the sounds of enemies running made any goddamn difference in this game I'd use Ninja on every class, just like MW2.
I do like Ninja Pro. I used to think that there was something wrong with the sound, maybe I've gotten used to it. Maybe its psychological. I do hear people, not always but when the floor is metal or wood I get the feeling that you can hear them better. I may try Marathon now that you've cast some doubts on Ninja's effectiveness - can't remember the last time that I had a class without it.

I really should experiment more. Since I got the most of the Pro perks, I've settled into using Ghost and Ninja for 1 and 3 and either Warlord or Sleight of Hand for 2. Trouble is, I just love running around with a silenced AK-47 ! Great gun.
     
sek929
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Jan 10, 2011, 07:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
Its that little sway before centering that pisses me off when using a sniper. I occassionally setup a sniper class only to remove it a game or so later due to frustration. I've never been one to stay that still I guess, I used to use the snipers aggressively in MW2 and CoD4, just like I did in CoD2 (unless it was HC).
I've all but forgotten about that little 'wiggle' when sniping. Right now you can still get a hit before the scope quiets down, unlike when the game was released. What sniper did you try to use BTW? I've used them all and only the L96A1 is a reliable 1-hit-kill weapon. It's the Intervention of this game. Also, I usually never stand still when sniping. In fact, my sniping method, the one I've used for everything including Halo, is to use the aim stick to get the cursor close and then strafe front/back side to side to line up the shot perfectly. The benefit of this maneuver is I am much harder to hit by other snipers while being able to perfect my aim in the process.

Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
You really think the game-play is that different to MW2? It just seems like the same sorts of combat to me, just different weapons and add-ons. Maybe thats why I like it - its 'comfortable'.
I have less CoD experience than most. My first was World at War and MW2 was my first big mutli CoD. I think overall the game bears 95% resemblance to everything I'm used to. The map design in BO is better IMO, because of the multitude of entry points and the overall difficulty to camp a spot successfully, but any points I give the maps are taken away by the hideous spawning system.

In MW2 it seemed like the beginning of a match was punctuated by a rush to center by both teams, ending in a power struggle for the center of the map right away. In BO the beginning of the match is punctuated by a counter-clockwise swapping of spawns, which annoys the sh!t out me since I like to start off the match in a comfortable position as I build my first killstreaks. As it stands now I am barely able to get two kills in succession before the entire team is starting to spawn behind me. On a huge map I'll be sniping from my spawn and barely be able to get ONE KILL before the spawns have entirely switched sides, very frustrating.

The things I like better about BO are the following. I like the secondary weapon nerf, especially to tone down the abilities of snipers to camp. I like how a furious battle between evenly matched opponents often ends in a pistol battle. I like the removal of Stopping Power, and I love Warlord Pro and Scout Pro (even regular Scout is very useful). I like (as I've said before) the more complicated buildings with more entry points. I like that killstreaks no longer fuel more killstreaks, as much as I miss the days of just overwhelming the other team with harriers and the like. I like that knifing, although not entirely un-commando'ed, is more or less even amongst all players (yes dakar your connection leaves much to be desired in this area, and yes, Lightweight can screw it up as well). I like that the 'thumper' is no longer overpowered, especially with the removal of Danger Close, in fact I love how much less tubers are a problem in this game. I love the SR71.

Now the things I take issue with. The omnipresent lag. The dubious hit detection. The spawning. The sounds of explosions are confusing, such as a grenade going off across the map and my claymore right behind me make the same sound. They should have come up with some way to switch between stacked killstreaks, I always scoff slightly at every time I call in a Napalm Strike and afterwards the UAV I needed before the Napalm Strike. The sounds of footsteps are near useless, in MW2 this was a huge tactic of mine and has been rendered pointless. I notice no difference running Marathon now as I did running Ninja for the first few months after release. I can hear my own footsteps, and that's about it.

Sure I missed a few things, but that about rounds it out. In all fairness BO is very enjoyable for me, but isn't nearly as good as MW2.
     
Stogieman
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Jan 10, 2011, 09:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
The map design in BO is better IMO, because of the multitude of entry points and the overall difficulty to camp a spot successfully, but any points I give the maps are taken away by the hideous spawning system.
I played some BO multiplayer online at a friends house this past weekend. You're right, the spawning in this game is absolutely atrocious. Worst spawning system ever.

Slick shoes?! Are you crazy?!
     
sek929
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Jan 10, 2011, 09:20 PM
 
Halo CE had better spawning, Goldeneye N64 had better spawning.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 11, 2011, 12:53 AM
 
     
mattyb
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Jan 11, 2011, 08:05 AM
 
I agree with 99% of what you said sek, except the Ninja bit. Dunno if you have headphones for sound, but I feel that you really can hear people better.

Now after not playing BO for a few nights, you guys have put me in the mood again.
     
sek929
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Jan 11, 2011, 08:33 AM
 
Heh, that's a sweet icon.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 11, 2011, 11:15 AM
 
Wow, looks like I actually sparked a discussion.


Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
It was the speed knifers that used to piss me off. They'd run around, and I'd hear them. I'd turn around and while they were far away seemed to be able to 'reach out and touch' me. The distance was just too great.
Right, I agree. I'm just sayin' I don't think it was Commando to blame.


Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
I don't get the feeling that maps are smaller, I get the feeling that there's more in the maps. No long lines of sight. Except for Rust and maybe Scrapyard, you could quite happily snipe every map in MW2. You just don't get the same choke points or unblocked distances in BO. Which IMHO actually makes for a better game overall. What might be interesting to see is the un-nerfing of the snipers (so they could quick scope like in MW2). Scientifically speaking of course.
The maps are definitely smaller, and usually simpler when not haphazard. Not sure how to demonstrate they're smaller, though.


Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
I do miss not having a shotgun as secondary though. The pistols aren't different enough. Been having some fun with the crossbow recently though.
I think they added variety to the game, too. There's more tactical decision making with them as another option.


Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
Ninja Pro? Can't play without it now.
You probably have a semi-valid point here – problem is I'm not willing to jump through the hoops they've set to get those Tier 3 pros. But as far as those base perks? Pretty meaningless.

Of course, you're using a headset, too.



Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
I have less CoD experience than most.
Actually, you have some of the most. Subie and mattyb are probably the most experienced among us.

Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
My first was World at War and MW2 was my first big mutli CoD. I think overall the game bears 95% resemblance to everything I'm used to. The map design in BO is better IMO, because of the multitude of entry points and the overall difficulty to camp a spot successfully, but any points I give the maps are taken away by the hideous spawning system.

In MW2 it seemed like the beginning of a match was punctuated by a rush to center by both teams, ending in a power struggle for the center of the map right away. In BO the beginning of the match is punctuated by a counter-clockwise swapping of spawns, which annoys the sh!t out me since I like to start off the match in a comfortable position as I build my first killstreaks. As it stands now I am barely able to get two kills in succession before the entire team is starting to spawn behind me. On a huge map I'll be sniping from my spawn and barely be able to get ONE KILL before the spawns have entirely switched sides, very frustrating.
Blasphemy.

BO map design does seem to have one goal of making any spot indefensible, but that's not a very laudable goal . What that does is make any semi-defensible position twice as important and since they're few and far inbetween, and then they become the focal point of the map. On the other hand, in MW2, most of the maps were designed with several spots that could be used strategically, meaning that on good maps, you could find somewhere near you and use it to push forward or stem the tide (Or better yet get into shoot-outs, one spot versus another).
     
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Jan 11, 2011, 12:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
You probably have a semi-valid point here – problem is I'm not willing to jump through the hoops they've set to get those Tier 3 pros. But as far as those base perks? Pretty meaningless.
Yeah getting the Pro for some of the perks was a real chore. Still haven't done the 'throw back 5 grenades' for whatever (Flak Jacket?).

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Actually, you have some of the most. Subie and mattyb are probably the most experienced among us.
If only that translated into an impressive k/d.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
BO map design does seem to have one goal of making any spot indefensible, but that's not a very laudable goal . What that does is make any semi-defensible position twice as important and since they're few and far inbetween, and then they become the focal point of the map. On the other hand, in MW2, most of the maps were designed with several spots that could be used strategically, meaning that on good maps, you could find somewhere near you and use it to push forward or stem the tide (Or better yet get into shoot-outs, one spot versus another).
I never thought of it that way, but you're right for the non-objective based games.
     
 
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