[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

Ah, yes. The "roaring" economy, where the gap continually widens between the rich and the rest, where far too many people are making the same wages they were 20 years ago, where the number of people in poverty is rising, where the number of uninsured is rising, where we've burdened our grandchildren with an enormous debt, and which is looking more like it's heading for a recession shortly. That's the economy that's roaring, right? Keep drinking the Kool-Aid, and don't concern yourself with reality.

GW started with a Clinton recession. And the "gap" widened with the guy before him as well.

You can always spot the irrational Bush haters when you see them spouting the "worst ever" spiel. It's like an even more outrageous parody of the "comic book guy" from the Simpson. Too funny!

Bush might be far from the best, but you guys claiming "teh worse" really need a dose of reality shoved up your @$$.

[OldManMac]

I never mentioned anything about Bush starting with a Clinton recession. I'm not a big fan of Clinton's either. I also know how to spell "the," and I'm quite confident that Bush will go down in history as the worst ever.

You wouldn't know reality if it bit you in the ass.

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

GW started with a Clinton recession. And the "gap" widened with the guy before him as well.

You can always spot the irrational Bush haters when you see them spouting the "worst ever" spiel. It's like an even more outrageous parody of the "comic book guy" from the Simpson. Too funny!

Bush might be far from the best, but you guys claiming "teh worse" really need a dose of reality shoved up your @$$.

years from now your grandchildren will ask, "daddy did you really support the worst president ever?" at the grave sight of another grandchild who came back dead from iraq

[vmarks]

Gravesite. One word, no 'gh' in it. I imagine you were educated in public schools?

The worst President ever title has belonged to numerous Presidents, depending on perspective. Lincoln, FDR, Nikon, and Carter all qualify.

The difference is that once upon a time, people criticising the President still maintained some respect for the office. People who attack Bush today exhibit no such class.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

The difference is that once upon a time, people criticising the President still maintained some respect for the office. People who attack Bush today exhibit no such class.

Very true. Seems to be a trend; we saw the same thing happening during Clinton's presidency.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

Gravesite. One word, no 'gh' in it. I imagine you were educated in public schools?

The worst President ever title has belonged to numerous Presidents, depending on perspective. Lincoln, FDR, Nikon, and Carter all qualify.

The difference is that once upon a time, people criticising the President still maintained some respect for the office. People who attack Bush today exhibit no such class.

You had to get your little dig in there about public schools, didn't you. The forum should be honored to have such a well educated person amongst us illiterate slobs.

As to the lack of respect for the president's office, perhaps it's because the last few residents therein have diminished the office's stature, to the point that many true Americans no longer believe it deserves their respect. A large part of the global community shares that same belief. Other governments are realizing that they no longer need America and the arrogance and hubris which emanate from the White House.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

Gravesite. One word, no 'gh' in it. I imagine you were educated in public schools?

…Nikon…

So which President was President Nikon?

If you are going to be an elitist ass, at least get your own spelling right.

[OldManMac]

I heard that President Nikon actually preferred Canon.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

typing from the bunker

Originally Posted by ironknee 

years from now your grandchildren will ask, "daddy did you really support the worst president ever?" at the grave sight of another grandchild who came back dead from iraq

So is Iraq worse than Viet Nam now? Or do you excuse LBJ for escalating our involvement? How about Nixon? He handled Viet Nam well?

[OldManMac]

Comparing VietNam and Iraq is an exercise in futility. They are both tragic mistakes in judgement and they've both caused untold, and unnecessary, suffering and death.

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

A large part of the global community shares that same belief. Other governments are realizing that they no longer need America and the arrogance and hubris which emanate from the White House.

I think it's the point of our foreign policy to have ountries no longer dependent on our aid and largesse. Exactly our policy in Iraq.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

Comparing VietNam and Iraq is an exercise in futility. They are both tragic mistakes in judgement and they've both caused untold, and unnecessary, suffering and death.

I'm not trying to compare the two, I just think it is ridiculous to use Iraq as the reason why GWB would be the worst President in history when there are WORSE examples of mishandled and unnecessary wars.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Orion27 

I think it's the point of our foreign policy to have ountries no longer dependent on our aid and largesse. Exactly our policy in Iraq.

You mean, like Afghanistan, which we largely abandoned after our "victory" there? Where Hamid Karzai hides in his palace, afraid to leave Kabul? Where the Taliban are resurgent? Where women are once again being targeted for going out without the "proper" cover over thier bodies? Where poppy is once again the dominant crop?

Or is the "aid and largesse" you're referring to in Iraq the cause of the infrastructure being worse than when we invaded the country on trumped up reasons based on falsehoods, where the roads are much worse now, where the electricity and water flow much less now, and where people don't leave their homes now, for fear of being shot by someone who believes in a different religion? Is that the aid and largesse you're referring to?

Stop being so easily manipulated, and delusional. Sucks to be you.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I'm not trying to compare the two, I just think it is ridiculous to use Iraq as the reason why GWB would be the worst President in history when there are WORSE examples of mishandled and unnecessary wars.

GWB's well deserved place in history won't be just because of Iraq.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

GWB's well deserved place in history won't be just because of Iraq.

The idea that he is the worst in history is laughable, and it shows an incredible lack of historical perspective.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

You had to get your little dig in there about public schools, didn't you. The forum should be honored to have such a well educated person amongst us illiterate slobs.

Forgive my mispelling. I was educated in the public school system.

As to the lack of respect for the president's office, perhaps it's because the last few residents therein have diminished the office's stature, to the point that many true Americans no longer believe it deserves their respect. A large part of the global community shares that same belief. Other governments are realizing that they no longer need America and the arrogance and hubris which emanate from the White House.

The global community is irrelevent. We elect a President, and it is America's highest office and Commander in Chief. The office accords respect. That our own citizenry disrespect that office is problematic.

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

The global community is irrelevent. We elect a President, and it is America's highest office and Commander in Chief. The office accords respect. That our own citizenry disrespect that office is problematic.

That's a load of crap. What makes America great is that we CAN disrespect the office of the president. Especially when the occupant of that office has no respect for the citizenry. (This is a general statement and not intended as a dig at GW). You can love your country and still question your leaders.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

That's a load of crap. What makes America great is that we CAN disrespect the office of the president. Especially when the occupant of that office has no respect for the citizenry. (This is a general statement and not intended as a dig at GW). You can love your country and still question your leaders.

A. Effing. Men.

Respect is earned, not given freely because we are "supposed to".

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

You mean, like Afghanistan, which we largely abandoned after our "victory" there? Where Hamid Karzai hides in his palace, afraid to leave Kabul? Where the Taliban are resurgent? Where women are once again being targeted for going out without the "proper" cover over thier bodies? Where poppy is once again the dominant crop?

Or is the "aid and largesse" you're referring to in Iraq the cause of the infrastructure being worse than when we invaded the country on trumped up reasons based on falsehoods, where the roads are much worse now, where the electricity and water flow much less now, and where people don't leave their homes now, for fear of being shot by someone who believes in a different religion? Is that the aid and largesse you're referring to?



Stop being so easily manipulated, and delusional. Sucks to be you.

You're a sad little man KarlG. Is Islamic misogyny America's fault? I bet you can't admit one good thing about America. I've never read such a consistant pathetic rant over so many threads. My God KarlG, do you experience anything positive in your life?

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

Gravesite. One word, no 'gh' in it. I imagine you were educated in public schools?

The worst President ever title has belonged to numerous Presidents, depending on perspective. Lincoln, FDR, Nikon, and Carter all qualify.

The difference is that once upon a time, people criticising the President still maintained some respect for the office. People who attack Bush today exhibit no such class.

class? how old are you?

you are among the minority who thinks bush is doing a good job. face it you backed the wrong guy and you are covering your backside.

::edited out::

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

So is Iraq worse than Viet Nam now? Or do you excuse LBJ for escalating our involvement? How about Nixon? He handled Viet Nam well?

not a fan of either nixon or lbj...but they didn't start an unnecessary, personal war

we are all paying for bush jr.'s oedipus complex issues

so top 3 worst presidents ever:
1) bush
2) nixon
3) lbj

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Orion27 

You're a sad little man KarlG. Is Islamic misogyny America's fault? I bet you can't admit one good thing about America. I've never read such a consistant pathetic rant over so many threads. My God KarlG, do you experience anything positive in your life?

You consistently seem to think you have me pegged, because of what I post on an internet forum. There are lots of positive things about America, otherwise I wouldn't be here, but you, in your inifinite wisdom and ability to psychoanalyze people over the internet, can't separate your ideations from reality, so naturally you have to attack anyone who thinks differently, calling them sad and pathetic, etc. It's not my fault that you can't see what's happening to this country.

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

Forgive my mispelling. I was educated in the public school system.


The global community is irrelevent. We elect a President, and it is America's highest office and Commander in Chief. The office accords respect. That our own citizenry disrespect that office is problematic.

so why do you think people disrespect the president?

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

You consistently seem to think you have me pegged, because of what I post on an internet forum. There are lots of positive things about America, otherwise I wouldn't be here, but you, in your inifinite wisdom and ability to psychoanalyze people over the internet, can't separate your ideations from reality, so naturally you have to attack anyone who thinks differently, calling them sad and pathetic, etc. It's not my fault that you can't see what's happening to this country.

When Jimmy Carter was president ( and I don't care whether he was a Democrat or not ) Interest rates were at 18%, New York City was a sewer,we had hostages held by Iran for over a year, leisure suits were in fashion, and we didn't have the internet to level the playing field. Everyone has a mobile phone, fuel is as inexpensive as it's ever been, we decreased welfare dependency, live longer, breath cleaner air, have full employment, lower taxes, most people can own their own home and you don't even need to be a citizen to get a credit card, health care and in state tuition. Now for some good news for you: The Democrats control congress, taxes will surely rise, Gore has just one an Oscar ( though I think the Oscar was stolen, but pay back is pay back) Hillary is speaking in southern tongues, and we're about to be denied victory in Iraq. I'd say you have lot to be thankful for KarlG, your on a freakin' roll!

[placebo1969]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

There's a strong possibility that she is gay. People who scream the loudest on issues like this are often masking a deep unconscious fear that they themselves are what they fear. If they didn't have these fears, they wouldn't need to go on these crusades, as they'd know that the issue doesn't affect them.

Does this argument only work for the issue of homosexuality? Or does it work for other issues? In that case, then I would think you are secretly a conservative Republican.

Seriously, this is such a poor argument. If I don't like spicy food and make it clear to people when the topic of going somewhere to eat that I don't like spicy food, does that mean I secretly like spicy food? No. I'm tired of this poor argument.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by placebo1969 

Does this argument only work for the issue of homosexuality? Or does it work for other issues? In that case, then I would think you are secretly a conservative Republican.

Seriously, this is such a poor argument. If I don't like spicy food and make it clear to people when the topic of going somewhere to eat that I don't like spicy food, does that mean I secretly like spicy food? No. I'm tired of this poor argument.

There's a difference between being rabid and vehement about an issue, to the point that it almost becomes a centerpoint of much of a discussion that an individual brings up, and simply not liking something or being against an issue. This isn't the first time Ann Coulter has made hateful remarks about homosexuality. Ted Haggard preached about the abomination of homoseuality from his pulpit on more than one occasion. I've never suggested that simply disliking something makes one unconsciously desirous of being what they don't like. I don't like hot, spicy things, so that certainly doesn't mean I unconsciously crave them. That would be ludicrous. If I run around constantly constantly berating something that doesn't affect me, such as homosexuality, and I encourage others to to join me in denying these people rights, or call for them to be banned from certain jobs, when their beliefs don't harm me in any way, then it is perfectly proper to infer that they are a threat to me, becuase I can't rationally see that they aren't. That irrational fear has to come from somewhere, and that is in our deepest unconscious feelings, that we have to deny that we are afraid that we may actually be what we fear the most. It's a valid argument in the mental health community. I know a lot of psychologists and psychiatrists, as my ex, whom I was married to for twenty years, has a Ph.D. in clinical psychology, and we are still friends and I've had discussions with many of these people over the years on this subject. It's not a terribly hard concept to grasp; if something or someone doesn't affect you, then it doesn't disturb you and you let it go. If something does affect you, you take what you believe to be preventive measures to insulate yourself, or defend yourself, from whatever is bothering you. As homosexuality is still considered one of the most taboo subjects and homosexuals are frequently discriminated against and looked upon as abnormal, one of the most common means of defense is that of denial. Some people have enormous issues with homosexuals, to the point that they denigrate them as often as they can, such as Ann Coulter, Ted Haggard, and Senator Tom Coburn, of Oklahoma, who has been quoted as saying that ""The gay community has infiltrated the very centers of power in every area across this country, and they wield extreme power... That agenda is the greatest threat to our freedom that we face today. Why do you think we see the rationalization for abortion and multiple sexual partners? That's a gay agenda." He also said, "Lesbianism is so rampant in some of the schools in Southeast Oklahoma that they'll only let one girl go to the bathroom. Now think about it." (Wikipedia, look under Tom Coburn). Those are preosterous, ludicrous, unfounded, and totally irrational fears. He feels threatened by homosexuals, and he is clearly incapable of seeing the stupidity of his remarks, because he has an unconscious fear that's motivating him to defend himself against a non-existant threat. I know more than a few people in the gay community, as I have a daughter who's gay. She doesn't threaten me, or anyone else, unless they choose to feel threatened, in which case they are the irrational ones. She's not out to convert anyone; she just wants to live her life with the same rights that everyone else has, which is perfectly logical. IIRC, Coburn once also called for a law banning single teachers from teaching in schools. Again, it's not a hard concept to grasp, although it isn't, for some, a hard one to deny as well.

As to your believing that I may be a secret conservative Republican, I can see how you would reach that conclusion. The difference is, that many of the policies of the current administration do indeed affect very many, me included. There is a threat to civil liberties, unparalleled at almost any time in this nation's history, such as the president deciding that he alone has decision over who he can declare a terrorist, and that person having no legal recourse to defend himself. This administration has put more industry insiders into powerful positions, where they have enormous influence over rule making and policies. This administration has almost single handedly reversed decades of progress in worker health and safety initiatives, with the gutting of agencies such as OSHA. This administration has done more to give corporations absolute power over many issues, such as allowing the mining of coal by literally taking the tops off mountains in Virginia and Kentucky, and not giving a damn about the resultant run off choking rivers and streams and polluting the air and environment of the people living in the vicinities of these mountains. This administration has absolutely no morals, as the president and others want to be the final arbiters as to who, and how, they can torture, and they obviously think that they can fool the public into believing that they don't engage in torture, by sending people to other countries with abysmal records in human rights. This administration has decided that anyone it classifies as an enemy isn't entitled to legal defense or representation unless they allow it, which is contradictory to any basic human rights this country was founded on. It's easy to continue, but I would hope you get the point, although I have my reservations. I do hold some conservative positions; I'm against abortion, although I don't believe the state has the right to tell a woman what to do with her body, and I'm against gun control.

George W. Bush is also not a conservative Republican, except by virtue of him choosing to run under that label, and in the process, fooling a lot of people. He's a tired old neoconservative, which are basically old defeated liberals, who think that big government is the answer to getting their agendas accomplished. Do some research and you'll find that most true conservatives have had enough of King George, just as the majority of the American people have. He's dragged true conservatism's name through the mud, and a lot of people are getting tired of having to do their laundry so often.

[medicineman]

Coulter is no dummy. See her background here: Ann Coulter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . When she first came on scene, she was just another conservative voice. One I listened to and liked. She changed her style early on, though, and adopted the 'schtick' she now uses to gain wider attention. She has debased herself, in my opinion, and has lost credibility with this act.

[Moderator]

Exactly. Its a schtick. She couldn't possibly believe have the shi+ she says. But its scary how many of her fans actually do believe it.

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by Moderator 

Exactly. Its a schtick. She couldn't possibly believe have the shi+ she says. But its scary how many of her fans actually do believe it.

You know that for a fact? How many of her fans actually believe what? That if you use the word faggot you're a candidate for rehab? I doubt many of her fans believe that. The fact Dick Cheny's daughter is a lesbian was not a disqualifier though the liberal press chose to make an issue out it. That's part of the difference between sensibilities. You have midwestern reticence as opposed to San Franciscan or NYC flamboyance. One finds the other offensive and unseemly, the other quite frankly relishes the performance art. But added to that flamboyance is an air of entitlement, snobbery coupled with a nasty tendency to lecture to others how things ought to be.

[ironknee]

do they have performing arts in the midwest? do they have art?

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

do they have performing arts in the midwest? do they have art?

My point exactly! Thanks for the clarification!

[Moderator]

NYC flamboyance? What in the hell are you talking about. You know there are 10 million people here right....its pretty diverse....lots of different types...the whole spectrum

...and by being exposed to so many different types of people..nyc folks tend to be more open and accepting of various people and cultures. That you would reduce 10 million people to a simple cliche like "flamboyant" tells me all I need to know about your life experience.

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by Orion27 

My point exactly! Thanks for the clarification!

i've always said i look down my nose. nothing new

[Orion27]

[QUOTE=Moderator;3318147]NYC flamboyance? What in the hell are you talking about. You know there are 10 million people here right....its pretty diverse....lots of different types...the whole spectrum

...and by being exposed to so many different types of people..nyc folks tend to be more open and accepting of various people and cultures. That you would reduce 10 million people to a simple cliche like "flamboyant" tells me all I need to know about your life experience.[/QUOTE

Grew up on LI and lived in Manahattan for a while. Even marched with the Yippies in the 60's. I know a little about flamboyance and theater.
I was saved from a horrible depression by my gay friends who took me in when I desperately needed a place to stay. They ran a one of the quintessential health food stores in one the North Shore's little villages. I owe them my sanity if not my life.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Orion27 

I was saved from a horrible depression by my gay friends who took me in when I desperately needed a place to stay. They ran a one of the quintessential health food stores in one the North Shore's little villages. I owe them my sanity if not my life.

"gay" friends? Why weren't they just "friends"?

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

You consistently seem to think you have me pegged, because of what I post on an internet forum. There are lots of positive things about America, otherwise I wouldn't be here, but you, in your inifinite wisdom and ability to psychoanalyze people over the internet, can't separate your ideations from reality, so naturally you have to attack anyone who thinks differently, calling them sad and pathetic, etc. It's not my fault that you can't see what's happening to this country.

I wish I didn't have to bring this up Karl. You are a hypocrite. In another thread you called me an ignorant bigot because I had a different opinion than you.

Otherwise carry on carrying on. You must feel like a pin cushion by now. Thread is way off topic.

You are generally respected by me for your opinions, but watch out for hypocrisy.



On topic...

Look at all the free publicity Coulter is getting. Her next book will most assuredly be a best seller. She'll be laughing at all the right wing dummies all the way to the bank.

Someone should release a list of all the guests who were at this function. See if they laugh at that joke.

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

"gay" friends? Why weren't they just "friends"?

Christ! Am I a candidate for rehabilitation too! I have banker friends, lawyer friends, girl friends and gay friends. They were gay friends.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster 

I wish I didn't have to bring this up Karl. You are a hypocrite. In another thread you called me an ignorant bigot because I had a different opinion than you.

Otherwise carry on carrying on. You must feel like a pin cushion by now. Thread is way off topic.

You are generally respected by me for your opinions, but watch out for hypocrisy.



On topic...

Look at all the free publicity Coulter is getting. Her next book will most assuredly be a best seller. She'll be laughing at all the right wing dummies all the way to the bank.

Someone should release a list of all the guests who were at this function. See if they laugh at that joke.

If I did call you an ignorant bigot, then I most certainly apologize, as I generally respect your opinions as well. I got a little testy with Orion27 when he started trying to psychoanalyze me and made some absurd assumptions. I'll try to watch it.

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

If I did call you an ignorant bigot, then I most certainly apologize, as I generally respect your opinions as well. I got a little testy with Orion27 when he started trying to psychoanalyze me and made some absurd assumptions. I'll try to watch it.

Your 60yrs old. You ought to know better. I feel your pain though. Jeez that marriage must have been quite a battle. Call's for a really hot shower. At least your still talking> Hmm

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

If I did call you an ignorant bigot, then I most certainly apologize, as I generally respect your opinions as well. I got a little testy with Orion27 when he started trying to psychoanalyze me and made some absurd assumptions. I'll try to watch it.

As for Orion, he is misguided that's all. Feel for him instead.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster 

As for Orion, he is misguided that's all. Feel for him instead.

Good point.

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

Good point.

Kiss my ass. I've started a new thread.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Orion27 

Kiss my ass. I've started a new thread.

Yes, I see that you have, and that you've also continued your debate-winning ways. Your quote from that thread: "OAW you need to get your head out of your ass and grab an opportunity while you can."

Atomic rooster was right. I let you get to me, and I should have known better, and upon further reflection, I do feel for you.

[Moderator]

I agree...Orion27 is just one of those types of people noone wants to be around. The good news is he's probably 13 and has some time to figure it out.

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by Moderator 

I agree...Orion27 is just one of those types of people noone wants to be around. The good news is he's probably 13 and has some time to figure it out.

Is this a mutual admiration society for the like minded?

[BlueSky]

This is a like-minded society for the mutually admirable.

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by BlueSky 

This is a like-minded society for the mutually admirable.

Touche

[subego]

I can't believe it took me this long...

Arianna Huffington is a total babe.

I knew there was someone other than Ann.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

years from now your grandchildren will ask, "daddy did you really support the worst president ever?" at the grave sight of another grandchild who came back dead from iraq

You mean grave site? Careful. Your stupidity is showing a little.

[subego]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

You mean grave site? Careful. Your stupidity is showing a little.

How often do we get a good unintentional double entendre?

Do you like to flame flowers and puppies too?