[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

I'm saying that people who are slaves to creditors will lose some freedom.

Nobody denies that.

But outside your black-and-white world, there is bad debt, and there is useful ('good') debt, and there is in between. It depends on many factors, and can NOT be answered with a yes or no.

-t

[Calimus]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

I stopped reading, but don't forget at the end of the 30 years of paying for a house, you have a house to sell. What do you have with an apartment?

More money saved and invested than the net worth of the house would be? Depending on the housing/stock market relative healths of course.

[whgoodman]

Originally Posted by Calimus

More money saved and invested than the net worth of the house would be? Depending on the housing/stock market relative healths of course.

What money are you saving that cannot be saved while paying a home mortgage? A mortgage pmt will be in the same ballpark as apartment/condo/townhouse/house rental. My current house pmt is less than a two bedroom apartment rental. So, unless you're living at home with the 'rents or in a box underneath the overpass the expenditure will be about equal. The home, however, will most likely appreciate and the tax benefit puts more money back into your pocket. The only real benefit of renting is the ability to pack up and bolt at a moments notice.

[Calimus]

Originally Posted by whgoodman

What money are you saving that cannot be saved while paying a home mortgage? A mortgage pmt will be in the same ballpark as apartment/condo/townhouse/house rental. My current house pmt is less than a two bedroom apartment rental. So, unless you're living at home with the 'rents or in a box underneath the overpass the expenditure will be about equal. The home, however, will most likely appreciate and the tax benefit puts more money back into your pocket. The only real benefit of renting is the ability to pack up and bolt at a moments notice.

I'll certainly agree that in a given area, owning a house can be a huge advantage over renting. But this depends on the housing market. Rent generally does not go up nearly as fast as housing prices. Therefore in areas where housing has appreciated very rapidly, you may be better off renting. As an example, in my area I can rent a 2 bedroom house(same house would sell for around $160k) in the for around $750 a month. the mortgage payments would be at least $1000. Lets just say you could save only $200 extra a month, over 30 years, at a modest 10% return, you would have $455,000 saved. Now of course a house appreciates a great deal in 30 years as well, but you've also spent a lot more on the maintenance issues, appliances, roof, etc. I guess my point is that it's not as clear cut as some people make it out to be. For each person the situation is different, and getting into a house as soon as you can isn't always the best way to go, you have to run the numbers to find out.

[olePigeon]

The way to get around that was the Debit Card. There was a terminal fee from the bank, and then the establishment could charge a fee to make up for the terminal charge. Then that fee was passed onto the consumer. It was anywhere between $.45 and $.75.

However, a recent bill passed that makes it so only the bank can charge the fee, not the establishment. So there's a very annoying trend where small businesses and independent franchised resturaunt chains are getting rid of Debit card terminals and installing expensive ATM machines with $1.50 and $2.00 ATM fees. I don't know if this is local to California or if it's everywhere.

[whgoodman]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

The way to get around that was the Debit Card. There was a terminal fee from the bank, and then the establishment could charge a fee to make up for the terminal charge. Then that fee was passed onto the consumer. It was anywhere between $.45 and $.75.

However, a recent bill passed that makes it so only the bank can charge the fee, not the establishment. So there's a very annoying trend where small businesses and independent franchised resturaunt chains are getting rid of Debit card terminals and installing expensive ATM machines with $1.50 and $2.00 ATM fees. I don't know if this is local to California or if it's everywhere.

Those third-party ATM's are all over the place here as well. $2.00 is the going rate, but then again BofA is all over the place around here so you would have a hard time throwing a rock w/o coming close to hitting a bank-sanctioned ATM. Also, that fee isn't levied by the bank per-se. I'm sure some of the $2.00 goes to the bank for the right to do the transaction, but the rest goes to the company that is managing the ATM. In some cases, they're paying the establishment to put the machine there.

[medicineman]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

The way to get around that was the Debit Card. There was a terminal fee from the bank, and then the establishment could charge a fee to make up for the terminal charge. Then that fee was passed onto the consumer. It was anywhere between $.45 and $.75.

However, a recent bill passed that makes it so only the bank can charge the fee, not the establishment. So there's a very annoying trend where small businesses and independent franchised resturaunt chains are getting rid of Debit card terminals and installing expensive ATM machines with $1.50 and $2.00 ATM fees. I don't know if this is local to California or if it's everywhere.

ATM and Debit card machine take up floor space, which costs money. They require electric, which cost money. They require a phone line, which costs money. They require someone driving around filling up the machines with $20 bills, which costs money. Where would you like this money to come from?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Derailroad. Try again.

-t

Ahhh... the name calling begins as your argument insecurity increases.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by whgoodman

It's really amusing reading this and seeing what people will argue about. If you go to any major metro area [meaning NYC, Boston, Denver, Atlanta, LA, SF, etc] I believe that you would be very hard pressed to find more than 1% of the population that can walk in and pay cash for any major purchase. i.e. car, house, RV, whatever. I do not have any research to back that up. It’s just a feeling.

I know quite a few guys that own their own house outright and pay cash for cars and other big purchases. You know how they did it? By not buying $25,000 cars when they were 21 years old and instead driving $500 beaters. By buying a cheap small house and saving for a larger one. By not ever going into debt.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by medicineman

ATM and Debit card machine take up floor space, which costs money. They require electric, which cost money. They require a phone line, which costs money. They require someone driving around filling up the machines with $20 bills, which costs money. Where would you like this money to come from?

I wasn't objecting to the service fee of the ATM machines, I'm sure they're justified. I'm complaining about a law that prohibits establishments from recouperating losses through a Point of Sale terminal. So instead of paying a 45 cent terminal fee at the register, I have to use the ATM machine that has a $2.00 fee.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

I think I'll take the day off again.

And ponder which of us is right.

Me too.

I'll be busy packing for a vacation to Northern Michigan and during the drive I'll go over the freedoms I have by being debt free. Maybe I won't come home Monday as planned. Who knows, what's for certain is that I don't have to go to work on Tuesday!

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Ahhh... the name calling begins as your argument insecurity increases.

Try again.

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Railroader

I'll go over the freedoms I have by being debt free. !

-t

[whgoodman]

Originally Posted by Railroader

I know quite a few guys that own their own house outright and pay cash for cars and other big purchases. You know how they did it? By not buying $25,000 cars when they were 21 years old and instead driving $500 beaters. By buying a cheap small house and saving for a larger one. By not ever going into debt.

I'm really happy for you. Really. Don't know that I really believe you, but that doesn't mean others don't. A rather large percentage of people in the US do not buy big ticket items with cash. Some can't afford it. Some don't want to blow their entire wad on the item. Some like to get the points from their credit card purchases. Some just like to stay a bit liquid in their holdings. This whole 'credit is bad' religion that you are espousing is completely false. Credit is not bad. Improper use of credit is bad.

[Spliffdaddy]

There exists no proper use of credit. Debt is debt. It is neither noble nor honorable to be indebted to another.

It's quite entertaining to read the bizarre justifications some folks have for going into debt. Banks and creditors spend a LOT of money in an effort to make credit look like a 'good' thing. Seems that fully half of all TV commercials are sponsored by lending institutions. I can't compete in getting my message across.

While we can debate whether credit is inherently good or bad - it's a given that paying cash can only be a good thing.

There are always alternatives to using credit. Keep them in mind - that's all I can tell ya.

[adster]

^^^ total agreement. My dad always told me to never get credit, never be in debt, etc. I learned that lesson the hard way.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/turtle777/smileys/lolkaren.gif[IMG]

Try again.

-t

I was right the first time.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/turtle777/smileys/jerkit.gif[IMG]

-t

While you're busy jerkin it,

I'll be loading the car for my vacation!

Cheers!

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by whgoodman

I'm really happy for you. Really. Don't know that I really believe you, but that doesn't mean others don't.

You want to prove me wrong or just offer your opinion?

Originally Posted by whgoodman

A rather large percentage of people in the US do not buy big ticket items with cash.

Does that make them right? Is that the right thing to do because a large percentage does it?

Originally Posted by whgoodman

Some can't afford it.

Perhaps they should buy it then.

Originally Posted by whgoodman

Some don't want to blow their entire wad on the item.

They'd rather pay interst and throw money away?!?! FOOLS!!!

Originally Posted by whgoodman

Some like to get the points from their credit card purchases

What's worth more, "points" or money?

Originally Posted by whgoodman

Some just like to stay a bit liquid in their holdings

HA! You've been fooled by the debt-is-good-myth too.

Originally Posted by whgoodman

This whole 'credit is bad' religion that you are espousing is completely false. Credit is not bad. Improper use of credit is bad.

Debt is bad. Use of credit is debt. When you can pay cash for evreything you'll see what kind of freedom you can have. Until then you are blinded by the myth.

[whgoodman]

Originally Posted by Railroader

You want to prove me wrong or just offer your opinion?

Does that make them right? Is that the right thing to do because a large percentage does it?

Perhaps they should buy it then.

They'd rather pay interst and throw money away?!?! FOOLS!!!

What's worth more, "points" or money?

HA! You've been fooled by the debt-is-good-myth too.

Debt is bad. Use of credit is debt. When you can pay cash for evreything you'll see what kind of freedom you can have. Until then you are blinded by the myth.

Man. You guys must have been burned trying to live outside your means. Way outside your means. If you can't handle the temtation that credit brings, then by all means live from ATM to ATM. I'll stick with my good credit rating and the equity that I have built in my home.

As a side note, I do not have credit card debt so your tripe about me being fooled is just that, tripe. Do I use cards? Hell yes! I'm more than happy to use free money for a billing cycle. Do I pay interest on those transactions? Hell no! I haven't paid more than $20 total in the last two years.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by whgoodman

Man. You guys must have been burned trying to live outside your means. Way outside your means. If you can't handle the temtation that credit brings, then by all means live from ATM to ATM. I'll stick with my good credit rating and the equity that I have built in my home.
[*] As a side note, I do not have credit card debt so your tripe about me being fooled is just that, tripe. Do I use cards? Hell yes! I'm more than happy to use free money for a billing cycle. Do I pay interest on those transactions? Hell no! I haven't paid more than $20 total in the last two years.

Project all you want. Believe what you want. I have never been "burned". I have been free. "Live from ATM to ATM"?!?! What's that mean? I assure you, I VERY rarely use an ATM.

You think my paid-for house doesn't have equity? I assure you, I have a LOT more equity than you do. Around 100% at last check. he he. Your equity is being eaten up in interest payments. Essentially, you don't own your house, a bank does. You're buying your house from the bank. Try not paying the bank for your house some time. See who really owns "your" house.

I'll stick with my "whatever-my-credit-rating-is" because I simply don't care what it is. I don't need it.
[*] Do you remember what this thread is about?

[Spliffdaddy]

Nobody is trying to belittle you for worshipping the almighty credit score.

I'm sure there are a lot of folks who are impressed by a 3 digit number.

Me and Railroader will just spend our time trying to get the FDIC to insure checking accounts for more than $100,000 each - so we don't have to use several different banks.

[whgoodman]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Project all you want. Believe what you want. I have never been "burned". I have been free. "Live from ATM to ATM"?!?! What's that mean? I assure you, I VERY rarely use an ATM.

You think my paid-for house doesn't have equity? I assure you, I have a LOT more equity than you do. Around 100% at last check. he he. Your equity is being eaten up in interest payments. Essentially, you don't own your house, a bank does. You're buying your house from the bank. Try not paying the bank for your house some time. See who really owns "your" house.

I'll stick with my "whatever-my-credit-rating-is" because I simply don't care what it is. I don't need it.
[*] Do you remember what this thread is about?

Yes, I do recall what this thread was about. I believe that both you and Spiff drew it in this direction. And I'm not going to get into a 'my equity is bigger than yours' argument. I don't need to maily because it's none of your business. For everything else, we're going to have to agree to disagree 'cause you just can't sell me on your viewpoint. Enjoy.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by whgoodman

'cause you just can't sell me on your viewpoint. Enjoy.

You've already bought into the debt-for-life-give-your-money-away-to-a-bank-for-no-good-reason-lie. I can't sell you anything. Agreed.

Cheers!

[medicineman]

This started out as a serious discussion of credit fees. Then this santimonious attitude crept in. Credit is neither good nor bad, it just is. My wholesalers allow me to pay them twice monthy, for daily deliveries. That's credit. The various insurance companies and HMOs pay me on a monthly basis. That's credit. The several utility companies allow me to use their products and services with the understanding that I will pay them at month's end. That's credit. Credit allows me to make a phone call and have a case of vaccine delivered before the cash is in their hands. Today's society does not live in a parochial space. We trade, deal and otherwise transfer monetay values for goods and services. And much of it is done over long distances. That would be impossible if this was a totally cash-on-the barrel-head economy.

I am happy for those of you who are independently wealthy and obviously retired. But please withold your acrimonious comments, as the rest of us are doing quite well in this work-a-day world.

[ghporter]

medicineman, it's unfortunate that the vast majority of today's consumers don't understand things like "net 30 days" invoices and simple business accounts. All most people know about credit is how to run up their credit card balance. I got a good foundation in how credit really worked in a summer job with a Fortune 500 company. I got the task of setting up a new mail room, so I researched the shelving and benches from the catalogs and put together a proposal. When I submitted it, my boss said "go order it." "How do I pay?" I asked, hesitently. "Head to bookkeeping and get a purchase order number from Marge. When you get the total, write it down and give it back to Marge. The purchase order is our promise to pay within 30 days of delivery." Wow! What a deal! And what a lesson.

Business CANNOT function without this system. Cash before delivery is not a workable option because most businesses run on a slim margin, not a lot of capital. Credit is basically what allowed the merchant class to develop way back in the Middle Ages, and it's still needed today. Hosing up your credit because you're too lazy to figure it out, or because you didn't bother to read the agreement you signed is not the fault of credit.

[medicineman]

Originally Posted by ghporter

medicineman, it's unfortunate that the vast majority of today's consumers don't understand things like "net 30 days" invoices and simple business accounts. All most people know about credit is how to run up their credit card balance. I got a good foundation in how credit really worked in a summer job with a Fortune 500 company. I got the task of setting up a new mail room, so I researched the shelving and benches from the catalogs and put together a proposal. When I submitted it, my boss said "go order it." "How do I pay?" I asked, hesitently. "Head to bookkeeping and get a purchase order number from Marge. When you get the total, write it down and give it back to Marge. The purchase order is our promise to pay within 30 days of delivery." Wow! What a deal! And what a lesson.

Business CANNOT function without this system. Cash before delivery is not a workable option because most businesses run on a slim margin, not a lot of capital. Credit is basically what allowed the merchant class to develop way back in the Middle Ages, and it's still needed today. Hosing up your credit because you're too lazy to figure it out, or because you didn't bother to read the agreement you signed is not the fault of credit.

Good for you. You were taught properly. Remember what you have learned. If you can proceed to the American dream of owning your own business (and perhaps you have) those lessons will prove invaluable.

[IFLY2HIGH]

I know some retail stores that do accept credit cards, like one I part time work in, will raise their prices 4% to cover the cost of credit card charges. This means that now those who pay cash/check, we get an extra 4% that they shouldn't have to pay, retailers won't lose money, the consumer does by paying higher prices, and retailers make the profits they need, they just pass the ball onto the consumer.

I have debt, do I regret it, nope. It allowed me to buy my new truck 6 years ago when I didn't have the money and needed transportation. I didn't mind paying intrest back to the bank, why, cause I got what I needed, when I needed, and that is the price it costs. Just like right now, I wanta buy a camper, do I have the money? Nope, but I can get a loan, and have it now when I want it, not another year from now.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by medicineman

Good for you. You were taught properly. Remember what you have learned. If you can proceed to the American dream of owning your own business (and perhaps you have) those lessons will prove invaluable.

Actually, I'm working on getting into my second career as an Occupational Therapist (just started the didactic!), and I'm hoping to NOT have to have my own independent practice. But knowing a bit of the business end makes things make so much more sense, particularly why certain decisions need to go in certain directions. (I don't always have to like the way they go...).

[Dakar]

What this thread has taught me: If I don't buy a house through loans when I'm 20 something, I'll be able to pay for one with cash when I'm forty-something and still have hundreds-of-thousands of dollars left over in my bank accounts.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Dakar

What this thread has taught me: If I don't buy a house through loans when I'm 20 something, I'll be able to pay for one with cash when I'm forty-something and still have hundreds-of-thousands of dollars left over in my bank accounts.

But only if you save, save, SAVE instead of buying anything. Credit, used wisely, is good for you. But never borrow more than you need right then.

I've bought two houses and a mobile home through the years, all on credit. I was ready for the first house, but the military moved me, so i had to sell it-and someone broke in and trashed it before the sale was finalized. I thought I was ready for the mobile home, but I didn't read the housing market right (nobody did then) and I took a huge loss when again I had to move. That scared me off of ownership for about ten years!

I WAS ready for this house, both financially and through experience. I did my homework, we studied all the builders in the area, and we fought for what we wanted-and got it. Our note is managable and when I finish in school it should be easy to pay off this 30 year loan in just about 12. But most people are not ready for any house they buy and they suffer for it. Think hard, do lots of research (starting NOW for any future purchase), and pay close attention to both the loan market and the housing market. This work will pay off in less worry, lower payments, and a house you really want.

[Dakar]

But the crux of you argument really doesn't deal with credit, does it? Your advice is don't spend in general.

[Spliffdaddy]

Admittedly, some of the best advice is usually the most difficult to follow.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Admittedly, some of the best advice is usually the most difficult to follow.

So, you've given up on booze and poker, right? Because gambling and alcohol can be abused, just like debt. And since you think all debt is bad, without exception, you must think that any alcohol or gambling is bad, too, right?

If not, please let us know why it's a good think if someone drinks too much, as long as they pay for the whiskey with cash....

[Spliffdaddy]

I don't often gamble and I rarely drink. So I'm not qualified to answer those questions.

I have some friends who gamble and drink, so I could ask them if you like.

The photos posted on my website might be misleading. Take a closer look and you'll see I generally have a soft drink in front of me.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

I don't often gamble and I rarely drink. So I'm not qualified to answer those questions.

And I don't often go into debt. (and have a positive net worth, in spite of the mortgage.) You see? Life is a lot nicer when we stop dealing in absolutes!

[TheMosco]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

I use a Visa debit card. So, no, you don't need a credit card for anything. You don't need credit for anything.

I have a Visa debit card too and am looking to get a actual credit card. There are alot of features that credit cards offer that debit cards don't. I am looking at getting a Amex blue for students:

1) Purchase Protection incase of damage or theft
2) Warranties extended to up to 1 year past manufacturer's warranty
3) Fraud protection (Some Debits cards will offer basic fraud protection)
4) Return protection
5) Tons of travel features
6) Discounts at places I shop

And I am not going to be using it for things that I wouldn't buy on my debit card. This is mostly food and books. I don't see how this use of a credit card can be called a bad thing.

ghporter has some good points.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Debt is bad. Use of credit is debt. When you can pay cash for evreything you'll see what kind of freedom you can have. Until then you are blinded by the myth.

Yes, that sounds like this advice was given completely w/o any bias and agenda.

-t

[Railroader]

Huh... you write so intelligently you mystify me. SARCASM

[sabrejim]

So don't spend money, so you will have money when you get odl. Sounds good to me. So how do you guys expect people to pay for college without going into debt?

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by kaze0

So don't spend money, so you will have money when you get odl. Sounds good to me. So how do you guys expect people to pay for college without going into debt?

It's simple. They expect people to save up their money to pay for college. When you have your $100,000 saved (which is what college will probably cost by the time you save enough to pay for it entirely in cash) at age 40 or 50, then you can go to college. And then you can start your career at age 45 or 55.

Their view is black and white. Any credit or debt is bad. It's a very narrow-sighted view.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Huh... you write so intelligently you mystify me. SARCASM

-t

[Calimus]

Originally Posted by kaze0

So don't spend money, so you will have money when you get odl. Sounds good to me. So how do you guys expect people to pay for college without going into debt?

Pay for it as you go? Plus scholarships/grants. That's what most of my friends did. Though they didn't go to fancy $20k a year schools though. But a few of them make 6 digit salararies off a 4 year degree that cost them around $30k total and most probably make over $50k( I graduated 3 years ago). Doesn't seem too hard to me? Unless you're too busy partying the whole time to have a part time job of course. Student loans are often the first straw on the camels back. Students come out of high school with no debt, graduate with $50k of debt and from there on out don't think of debt as a burden until the monthly payments finally grow past their income. Of course it works out fine for many, I just don't agree that you "need" debt to get ahead in life.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Calimus

Pay for it as you go? Plus scholarships/grants. That's what most of my friends did. Though they didn't go to fancy $20k a year schools though. But a few of them make 6 digit salararies off a 4 year degree that cost them around $30k total and most probably make over $50k( I graduated 3 years ago). Doesn't seem too hard to me? Unless you're too busy partying the whole time to have a part time job of course. Student loans are often the first straw on the camels back. Students come out of high school with no debt, graduate with $50k of debt and from there on out don't think of debt as a burden until the monthly payments finally grow past their income. Of course it works out fine for many, I just don't agree that you "need" debt to get ahead in life.

Yes. You can go to a public institution, and qualify for grants/scholarships, and even work/study programs. But even then sometimes it's not enough, and you have to go into debt. I had to. I ended up with $8,200 of student loans for my four years. And I had scholarships, and some of it was paid by my parents, and I had part time jobs during the school year, and worked during the summers.

Tuition at public colleges (as well as private) has been increasing at a rate far higher than the rate of inflation. Unless you're independently wealthy, there is a slim chance that you'll be able to get away without incurring any debt at all.

You can minimize your debt exposure, but sometimes, you do "need" debt to get where you want to be.

It all comes down to how you manage it.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by kaze0

So don't spend money, so you will have money when you get odl. Sounds good to me. So how do you guys expect people to pay for college without going into debt?

You could do it the same way I did it. Work your ass off in high school and save your money. Work your ass off while going to school. Work even harder in the Summer. I was a Residence Advisor for two years and I got free room and board in the Dorms which was a VERY sizable chuck of the cost of going to school. I also took Summer classes so I could finish earlier and start earning an income. Drank cheap beer (actually, this is when I learned to brew).

Need I go on?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

-t

So, what's my "agenda"?!? For people to live a happier life with more financial freedom? GUILTY!!!

As for "bias", pot, meet kettle.

[TheMosco]

Originally Posted by Railroader

You could do it the same way I did it. Work your ass off in high school and save your money. Work your ass off while going to school. Work even harder in the Summer. I was a Residence Advisor for two years and I got free room and board in the Dorms which was a VERY sizable chuck of the cost of going to school. I also took Summer classes so I could finish earlier and start earning an income. Drank cheap beer (actually, this is when I learned to brew).

Need I go on?

I feel like thats a lot harder to do now. Right now after two years of college, my balance is $70,588.81 dollars and thats not including housing or food for this past school year because I live off campus now.. Only about 7000 of that was payed through loans (Federal Stafford Loan and Federal Perkins Loan). The rest was payed for through scholarships, financial aid and cash. I am not saying it can't be done, but I would say that getting through a private 4-year college without getting some loans is extremely difficult.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by TheMosco

I feel like thats a lot harder to do now. Right now after two years of college, my balance is $70,588.81 dollars and thats not including housing or food for this past school year because I live off campus now.. Only about 7000 of that was payed through loans (Federal Stafford Loan and Federal Perkins Loan). The rest was payed for through scholarships, financial aid and cash. I am not saying it can't be done, but I would say that getting through a private 4-year college without getting some loans is extremely difficult.

Then don't go to a "private 4-year college"! This sounds like my brother's argument for going into debt to buy a bigger newer truck when the one he already owned was working perfectly and doing everything he wanted it to do. "It's hard to buy a new truck without a loan" he said. "THEN DON'T BUY A NEWER TRUCK!!!" I nearly screamed. He was foreclosed on his house yesterday.

Do you really think you're going to get a much higher paying job? Is the return on investment that much better? Most (not all) of the people I know who went to private colleges are not doing as well as the people I know who went through good public universities. (But that's just my experience.)

[turtle777]

You guys don't you know, you have to save for college until you are 45 years old, and then pay it with cash.

[/railroader-spliff]

-t

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

You guys don't you know, you have to save for college until you are 45 years old, and then pay it with cash.

[/railroader-spliff]

-t

Huh?!!? Projecting again I see.

I went to College when I was 17. Paid cash for it. I even changed majors twice, which greatly extended my college career, and I still came out debt free. And mommy and daddy NEVER paid a penny.

Bought my first house at 27. Paid cash. Bought my second house at 30. Paid cash.

Owned numerous cars. Paid cash.

Try again.