[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by tooki

Is it not possible for you [expletive deleted] to talk about homosexuality without it descending into discussions of religion? God-freaking-damn!

Probably not, because religion is the primary source of the opposition to homosexuality. It's much like you can't really discuss the benefits of Macs without bringing up PCs.

[tooki]

But this thread wasn't discussing the opposition, it was just supposed to gather demographics.

tooki

[Chuckit]

Yeah, but a thread about "Who does such-and-such?" will tend to attract people who oppose such-and-such (whether such-and-such is homosexuality, Nintendo or drugs), or people who at least feel the opposition to the thing is relevant to their sexuality like Salty.

[tooki]

My point was that people can't show restraint, not even one time, against derailing the thread into a discussion of morality.

tooki

[Kerrigan]

Not only that, but Canada is brought up an inordinate amount of times in any thread about homosexuality. Go figure.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Not only that, but Canada is brought up an inordinate amount of times in any thread about homosexuality. Go figure.

Because our most fervent Lounge members are Canadians ?

-t

[Kerrigan]

so uh how long until Kevin comes out?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

so uh how long until Kevin comes out?

Eleventy Billion™ years.

-t

[Salty]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

so uh how long until Kevin comes out?

Not a chance... have you seen his wardrobe? It just screams straight!

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Salty

Not a chance... have you seen his wardrobe? It just screams straight!

Huh? You've only been "out" for a couple months now and already your turning into a bitchy queen. Good for you!

[Kr0nos]

Originally Posted by Salty

Not a chance... have you seen his wardrobe? It just screams straight!

When did you see his 'wardrobe'? Hah. The plot thickens…

[Salty]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Huh? You've only been "out" for a couple months now and already your turning into a bitchy queen. Good for you!

I shall NEVER be a bitchy queen. Trust me I've met bitchy queens. I've been a bit of a clothing whore for a while, but A) I will NEVER do drag, B) I'm just plain not a bitchy person, C) I was out at a bar recently with a friend and when he introduced me to a bitchy queen their response was "What is THAT!?" At which point I just looked at the guy, who had the look of the love child between a emo kid, a glam rocker, and a blender, and just stood there thinking, "How absolutely pathetic". I genuinely can't stand bitchy queers. If I act... I play it up a bit and have fun, but I'm inherintly good natured about it. Unless you cross me honey then, *snap* *snap* (I'm joking I'm actually not able to snap my fingers which makes my large black woman impression have to rely on the whole head bobbing thing.)

[adster]

Salty, can I ask you something? With all your religious leanings, etc. think you'll hook up with a guy, or end up like many a gay priest (gay, but abstaining from sex)?

[Madferret]

Originally Posted by slugslugslug

Lots of things are not normal, but still pretty much morally neutral. Being as excited about Apple and the Mac OS as many of 'round here are is not normal, but there's certainly nothing wrong with it.

Unfortunately, believing that an invisible man in the sky exists and has an opinion about whose genitals you touch still seems to be perfectly normal. And I'm a weirdo for wondering why people should accept that he dictated a book or books telling what's right centuries ago.

hahaha. Werd. Christians= stupid.

[Kerrigan]

Madonna sez most priests are gay, I'll take her word for it

[slugslugslug]

How would she know?

Oh, wait. She's Jesus's mom, isn't she? Guess she probably is in the loop

[nredman]

Ripe For Da Lock®

[OwlBoy]

Originally Posted by Salty

You know what if I can have sex in good conscience I will. But I will not do anything that goes against my personal convictions. And as for Ambush, I have been described by most of my friends recently as "not fat" the worst they'll let me be called is "chunky". I'm still not super lean or anything, but here's a more recent photo.

the chin is largely because my face was pulled in fairly close to my neck as I gave the camera a strange look. Sadly I need to get this friend to start taking good photos of me. The problem is I'm a really good photographer and can pick the right moment to take a photo when in a group... I have no friends that take good photos of me. There's only been one person who ever took a genuinely good photo of me and that was last year at the opening of the Yorkdale Apple store.

omg, you look like your sig.

-Owl

[Salty]

Originally Posted by funk ride

Salty, can I ask you something? With all your religious leanings, etc. think you'll hook up with a guy, or end up like many a gay priest (gay, but abstaining from sex)?

Probably stan abstinent, either that or be socially acceptable and marry a "recovered lesbian" kidding about that. That said I do know one guy who's gay who actually married a woman who is fine with it. He's chosen not to live out the life style, and they're deeply in love from what I can tell. And it's not a fake thing either. So whatever, so I mean... if I find someone who loves me and who I am in love with then I'll spend my life with them. Right now though I'm just not getting myself any booty.

[TheoCryst]

Ooh, I will get us back on topic! Watch watch watch:

I'm straight! I like girls! The end.

PS: I've gotten far less sleep in the past week than I should have (maybe 10 hours in the past 5 nights)

[zmcgill]

Originally Posted by FrankeniMac

hahaha. Werd. Christians= stupid.

This must be cash! Wasn't he modding an iMac? That would explain the name...

[Kerrigan]

that aint cash

also, SuperChic[k]en, quick question. If you're abstaining from sex, and you've had no relationships with gay guys up to this point, how do you know that you're actually gay? It looks as though you're basing your sexual orientation solely on your penchant for gay porn. The disconnect between porn and reality is quite large.

My point is, you may want to test drive the car before signing the loan, ya know?

Had you dated or boinked a dude before, I wouldn't be saying this. Experience is a key part of determining your identity.

[spauldingg]

Originally Posted by FrankeniMac

I have nothing against gay people. Nothing whatsoever. I think people should be able to get their rocks off however they want to. Doesn't bother me. However, I have noticed a very large number of gay people here.... hence the poll, because I'm curious. No, not that kind of curious. Just about hte demographic here.

So. Have you come to any conclusions yet?

Curious as to what you were curious about.

[Madferret]

Originally Posted by spauldingg

So. Have you come to any conclusions yet?

Curious as to what you were curious about.

I had a hunch that most if not all of hte mods and admins were gay. So far it's even.... which either means we only have 6 moderators total for this place.... or the reason I felt that way was because it's a large portion of the moderators were gay bi in comparison to the general demographic of this place.

I was just curious if it was like a good ole boys club, where you had to be gay to be a mod, or what. >shrug<

[tooki]

I wonder who the second gay mod is? I figured it was just me... (Trust me, it's not one of the criteria!)

tooki

[Mithras]

So that's what "eccentric" means.

[tooki]

Oh goodness no. Gay or not, I'm eccentric.

tooki

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Salty

That said I do know one guy who's gay who actually married a woman who is fine with it. He's chosen not to live out the life style, and they're deeply in love from what I can tell. And it's not a fake thing either. So whatever, so I mean... if I find someone who loves me and who I am in love with then I'll spend my life with them. Right now though I'm just not getting myself any booty.

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

that aint cash

also, SuperChic[k]en, quick question. If you're abstaining from sex, and you've had no relationships with gay guys up to this point, how do you know that you're actually gay? It looks as though you're basing your sexual orientation solely on your penchant for gay porn. The disconnect between porn and reality is quite large.

Because being gay has little to do with having sex with someone?

Did you know you were attracted to females before you had sex with one?

I sure did.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by tooki

I wonder who the second gay mod is? I figured it was just me... (Trust me, it's not one of the criteria!)

tooki

I think some regular members are being funny

[tavilach]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

I don't think it takes an "invisible man in the sky" to tell humans whose genitals to touch, nature does a pretty good job of showing us what's natural. If you say the point of sex is procreation, then it's clear how sex is supposed to work.

Nature also dictates amorality.

Just look at the Ten Commandments. Not that I'm even religious, but they tell us not to do many things that are natural. In other words, they tell us not to behave like apes.

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Because being gay has little to do with having sex with someone?

I dunno. Frankly, as someone who has been with both dudes and chicks, I've become rather cynical about the idea that people are simply born gay.

I don't doubt that most adults who call themselves gay have inalterable homosexual tendencies. Nevertheless, I've seen that a lot of guys, in the excitement of their youth, latch on to the concept of homosexuality as a sort of all-encompassing explanation of their personality.

A person's shortcomings (depression, inability to maintain relationships, problems with the parents) which had up to this point been considered personality flaws can be simply explained away by declaring homosexuality. That's too convenient, if you ask me.

It's very similar to how those evangelical exorcists convince people that all their problems are the result of Satan, and all these people have to do is adobt a new identity, that of being 'posessed', a convenient way to blame their problems on something outside of their control.

So if a guy has never had a romantic and/or sexual relationship with another guy, I'm naturally gonna be a little sceptical about his claim to homosexuality. IMO, the genuine article is someone who has a consisent pattern of sex with men. Anything else is just bi-curiousity.

[Salty]

So when I don't say I'm gay, everyone thinks I'm gay. When I say I'm gay... everyone thinks I'm straight? YOU PEOPLE ARE... making me crazy!

Anyway, my primary sexual attraction is towards men. I don't look at the gay thing as being an all encompassing personality trait. Was I depressed sometimes because of it growing up? Yah. That said I was more depressed because my family was about as functional as my mom's old compaq running 98!
I could probably perform in bed with a woman. Honestly I've never had sex so I honestly can't tell you all the things that go along with that. That said, it took me a very long time to even admit to myself that I was gay. I kept hoping that some day it might change. It never did. When I see a really hot guy walk by my eye goes in that direction. Super hot girl? I'll probably check out the guy who's arm she's hanging off haha... actually my friends complain because I'll notice a girl's iPod before I notice her chest.

That said I'm not about to become some sort of makeup wearing super femmy queen. I don't think a guy my size could pull that off anyone.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Salty

So when I don't say I'm gay, everyone thinks I'm gay. When I say I'm gay... everyone thinks I'm straight? YOU PEOPLE ARE... making me crazy!

Boy who cried wolf... etc

[Salty]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Boy who cried wolf... etc

I NEVER said I was straight before. I simply said nothing.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

I dunno. Frankly, as someone who has been with both dudes and chicks, I've become rather cynical about the idea that people are simply born gay.

A person's shortcomings (depression, inability to maintain relationships, problems with the parents) which had up to this point been considered personality flaws can be simply explained away by declaring homosexuality. That's too convenient, if you ask me.

So if a guy has never had a romantic and/or sexual relationship with another guy, I'm naturally gonna be a little sceptical about his claim to homosexuality. IMO, the genuine article is someone who has a consisent pattern of sex with men. Anything else is just bi-curiousity.

Sorry... but that’s complete nonsense. For as long as I can remember (definitely since before or around the age of five, i.e., before even developing a proper sexual identity), there has been absolutely no doubt in my mind that I was gay. I have never once seen myself sexually attracted to a woman. I’ve never suffered from depression, I’ve never had an inability to maintain relationships (since I’d never started one before the one I’m currently in), and I’ve never had any problems with my parents.

I came out when I was 17, and I’d never been with a guy (or girl) by then. To this day, I’ve still never been with a girl, and I really have no desire to. I am in a relationship now, so I guess that makes me ‘properly gay’ in your book; but up until about three and a half months ago, I wasn’t, and had never been. I can’t see how that would in any way affect the fact that I have, until now at least, been attracted exclusively to people of the male persuasion?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Salty

That said I'm not about to become some sort of makeup wearing super femmy queen. I don't think a guy my size could pull that off anyone.

I don't know....

I NEVER said I was straight before. I simply said nothing.

I am talking about the "I'm gay, I'm not gay, maybe I am gay...." threads you've made.

[Salty]

You bastard

[Kevin]

Just teasin ya.

If you want me to remove it I will.

[Salty]

The world should never have to see that sort of thing.

[Mithras]

I think it's adorable.

[adster]

Live the life you can, Salty. You're not gonna know which way it takes you, so just be.

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by Oisín

Sorry... but that’s complete nonsense...

I'm not doubting that most people who identify as gay have had an inalterable homosexual orientation from birth.

However, when you throw in self-destructive traits like unjustified feelings of victimization, and addiction to pornography, suddenly Salty's self-identification of homosexuality becomes a little dubious.

That is why I advised him to establish and maintain a gay relationship (sexual or otherwise) before going around telling everyone that he's gay.

[zmcgill]

Originally Posted by tavilach

Nature also dictates amorality.

Just look at the Ten Commandments. Not that I'm even religious, but they tell us not to do many things that are natural. In other words, they tell us not to behave like apes.

Things like murder, lying, and coveting (all things directly addressed by the ten commandments) are natural because we're by naturae sinful beings. Kids aren't taught to lie, but pretty much as soon as they can talk they'll lie to their parents to save their own skin. We're by nature sinful, but we also have a given moral law to follow.
I guess this is a different kind of 'nature,' if that's possible. Male/female sex is natural because a penis fits in a vagina quite nicely and when everything goes right, a kid pops out. Yeah, a penis fits in an anus too, but I've heard it takes a looooot of lube (I listened to too much 'Love Line" back in the day) and if you look at it metaphorically, you're sticking the 'rod of life' into the 'hole of death and decay.' Kinda gross.

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

you're sticking the 'rod of life' into the 'hole of death and decay.'

I know some girls who fit that bill

[qnxde]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I don't know....




I am talking about the "I'm gay, I'm not gay, maybe I am gay...." threads you've made.

OMG it's tootsie!

I've never slept with a girl either and have no desire to. Also i think any guy that loves gay porn probably is gay whether they've had any experience or not.

[Salty]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Things like murder, lying, and coveting (all things directly addressed by the ten commandments) are natural because we're by sinful beings. Kids aren't taught to lie, but pretty much as soon as they can talk they'll lie to their parents to save their own skin. We're by nature sinful, but we also have a given moral law to follow.
I guess this is a different kind of 'nature,' if that's possible. Male/female sex is natural because a penis fits in a vagina quite nicely and when everything goes right, a kid pops out. Yeah, a penis fits in an anus too, but I've heard it takes a looooot of lube (I listened to too much 'Love Line" back in the day) and if you look at it metaphorically, you're sticking the 'rod of life' into the 'hole of death and decay.' Kinda gross.

Thing is though, the reason homosexual sex can be looked at as sin is not because a penis is going into a butt hole. Ultimately it's OK for heterosexual couples to engage in oral or anal sex if they want to. What is wrong is forsaking biblical gender requirements. Forsaking the intended created order, which is male + female complementation in both life and in sex, family, and many other aspects. The destruction of the image of the Church as the bride of Christ. If one were to take the psychological approach to understanding, then you could see it as embracing the result of psychological damage (though most likely irreparable).
The fact is the Church fights the idea of male on male or female on female relations solely on the sexual level which is silly and near sighted. This is because Christians fight out of disgust not out of reasoning or pure motives. This is why right now the modern Christian church is ill-equiped to fight. They are fighting people not concepts.

[blackbird_1.0]

Originally Posted by Salty

The fact is the Church fights the idea of male on male or female on female relations solely on the sexual level which is silly and near sighted. This is because Christians fight out of disgust not out of reasoning or pure motives. This is why right now the modern Christian church is ill-equiped to fight. They are fighting people not concepts.

Well said.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by qnxde

Also i think any guy that loves gay porn probably is gay whether they've had any experience or not.

You might say that's more likely than not, but it's not really a sure thing. I knew a girl who figured she was a lesbian until she actually tried doing it with a girl, then realized it just didn't do it for her.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Salty

TThe fact is the Church fights the idea of male on male or female on female relations solely on the sexual level which is silly and near sighted. This is because Christians fight out of disgust not out of reasoning or pure motives. This is why right now the modern Christian church is ill-equiped to fight. They are fighting people not concepts.

What "Church" are you talking about? Catholicism?

They say it's wrong because the Bible says it is. Not for some silly near sighted reasons.

AS for them "fighting"

[UnixMac]

Originally Posted by Kevin

What "Church" are you talking about? Catholicism?

They say it's wrong because the Bible says it is. Not for some silly near sighted reasons.

AS for them "fighting"

Hey Kevin, breaking news.. the Catholic Church canonized the bible, and the teachings of the bible are clear.. Hate the Sin, and not the Sinner. We Catholics don't support gay marriage, or the liberal gay agenda, NOR do we support anti-gay or gay bashing, as every human is dignified, and all humans are sinners.

A brief history refresher for you:

There was a constant history of faithful people from Paul's time through the Apostolic and Post Apostolic Church.

Melito, bishop of Sardis, an ancient city of Asia Minor (see Rev 3), c. 170 AD produced the first known Christian attempt at an Old Testament canon. His list maintains the Septuagint order of books but contains only the Old Testament protocanonicals minus the Book of Esther.

The Council of Laodicea, c. 360, produced a list of books similar to today's canon. This was one of the Church's earliest decisions on a canon.

Pope Damasus, 366-384, in his Decree, listed the books of today's canon.

The Council of Rome, 382, was the forum which prompted Pope Damasus' Decree.

Bishop Exuperius of Toulouse wrote to Pope Innocent I in 405 requesting a list of canonical books. Pope Innocent listed the present canon.

The Council of Hippo, a local north Africa council of bishops created the list of the Old and New Testament books in 393 which is the same as the Roman Catholic list today.

The Council of Carthage, a local north Africa council of bishops created the same list of canonical books in 397. This is the council which many Protestant and Evangelical Christians take as the authority for the New Testament canon of books. The Old Testament canon from the same council is identical to Roman Catholic canon today. Another Council of Carthage in 419 offered the same list of canonical books.