[Kerrigan]

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html

Police Chief Eddie Compass says he sent in 88 officers to quell the situation at the building, but they were quickly beaten back by an angry mob.
Compass says, "We have individuals who are getting raped, we have individuals who are getting beaten."

To what extent is this social breakdown related to the race of the people who are committing these terrible acts? This is more than looting, this is complete chaos. The question is now gnawing away at many people: can a southern city with a large black population survive through major natural disasters?

[AKcrab]

It's not about race, it's about income/education, not to mention that a large percentage of New Orleans is black. Give me a break.

[GSixZero]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

To what extent is this social breakdown related to the race of the people who are committing these terrible acts? This is more than looting, this is complete chaos. The question is now gnawing away at many people: can a southern city with a large black population survive through major natural disasters?

I rate this post: -1 Flamebait

[Pendergast]

oh!

You may find that thread of interest.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by GSixZero

I rate this post: -1 Flamebait

I agree, if you decide to ignore the issue.

But facing the facts that thee are some people who are much poorer than others, and that they sometimes are of a different skin color is a reality in the U.S. (and the rest of the world).

So yes, the poor pays for not having power and control as the rich do. If they are of a specific color in some areas, then yes, it looks like racism, although it is not clear it is the sole reason for the situation.

You can take that as an attack, or as a plain reflection over the facts. Frm there, you can deny everything, and be part of the problem, or accept it as a reality, and help work out a solution.

[boardsurfer]

To what extent is this mess related to race?

wow.

Why is race such a common topic wrt Katrina? there are numerous threads across the net that all devolve to "all black people in NO should be shot/arrested/jailed/etc." Craziness.

[olePigeon]

Uh... because they're black, or because they're getting screwed on the social and economic end of the stick?

Ever see an upset or really bad call at a Brazilian football game? Or any number of European games? You think it has anything to do with genetics?

[PacHead]

Those people looting/stealing/raping and running around with stolen guns are animals regardless of race.

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

The question is now gnawing away at many people: can a southern city with a large black population survive through major natural disasters?

I hope that question gnaws away at them until their tiny little rat brains are gone.

[Captain Obvious]

I don’t seem to remember this sort of thing being as wide spread in recent years in the face of disasters like the blackout in the Northeast and 9/11. So I think this is more prevalent in New Orleans because the flood caused law enforcement to evacuate.
The looting is being done by mostly blacks there because the place is more than two thirds black. Given the uneven demographics it is only logical that even if equal proportions of individuals in each race looted there would still be more black people doing it there.

That being said, I do think that the victim mentality the African American community has adopted (and many people outside it use to justify this behavior) would result in the looting being more socially acceptable within that community. If you propagate a theory that you are entitled to more today because of something that happened 4 generations ago you open the door for justifying this thievery. Americans as a whole today feel they deserve more than they work for and no one cross-section of the population ran with this idea than the African Americans.
Are they more proportionally capable of looting, no.
Are they going to be the first ones to rationalize why it is ok, yes.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

I do think that the victim mentality the African American community has adopted (and many people outside it use to justify this behavior) would result in the looting being more socially acceptable within that community. ....

I mentioned before that I heard a report that many of those who stayed behind in New Orleans did so because the upper and middle classes were evacuating the city. They were planning on looting and stealing right from the beginning.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Those people looting/stealing/raping and running around with stolen guns are animals regardless of race.

Exactly!

I could take you to some of the places I grew up in Albany, NY and you would see the same type of savagery happen and it would be all white people. Tremendous poverty and social alienation turn people into savages NOT being born black.

[pathogen]

The question is not why are so many of the people in turmoil down there black, it's why have we ignored and relegated so many black people to an american experience so different than the one most of us experience, especially in a disaster.

Things to remember:

1. A wide diversity of people were affected by the disaster.

2. The people caught in New Orleans were the financially weakest.

3. The lawlesslness can't be easily explained by any one factor.

4. Poverty and education are a personal responsibility up to a point. Disenfranchising, ignoring, and exploiting are issues the rest of us priviledged folk have to be responsible enough to avoid.

[Cold Warrior]

Give an inch, these gangs and looters take a mile.
It's time to slice and dice these pricks. Show them what it means to be in a society that values law and order.
Send in the troops and police. Batons, tear gas, rubber bullets, and flash-bang grenades.
Outlaw mobs, impose a curfew, and detain looters who loot more than what is required for survival.

[greenamp]

I posted this in a another thread, and am gonna paste it here to:

You guys are forgetting one important thing: New Orleans has always had one of the highest crime and murder rates in the nation. Forget what you see on TV or what you saw once on a vacation tour of the city, N.O is and always has been a cesspool of violence, murder, and crime.

I was born in N.O, and grew up in Baton Rouge. I've spent alot of time in N.O and let me tell you this, the city is 75% ghetto. The police couldn't keep things under control even in the best of times, so why does the lawlessness happening now surprise them?

What enrages me is not the looting or the crime, but that the city and state officials OBVIOUSLY HAD NO doomsday scenario in place to deal with the doomsday THEY KNEW would eventually happen. Gov. Blanco looks like a deer caught in headlights, and the N.O mayor appears to have no idea what to do.

You can argue that this happened so fast it caught them off guard, to which I'll respond "bullsh*t!," b/c they should have had a worse case scenario plan to throw into effect b/c THEY KNEW the city would flood eventually.
__________________

[OogaBooga]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Exactly!

I could take you to some of the places I grew up in Albany, NY and you would see the same type of savagery happen and it would be all white people. Tremendous poverty and social alienation turn people into savages NOT being born black.

I mean, we are animals, after all. In the end we only care about our own survival.

[__^^__]

Originally Posted by greenamp

You can argue that this happened so fast it caught them off guard, to which I'll respond "bullsh*t!," b/c they should have had a worse case scenario plan to throw into effect b/c THEY KNEW the city would flood eventually.
__________________

They were probably planning on the majority of the population being killed. That would be worse case.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

That being said, I do think that the victim mentality the African American community has adopted (and many people outside it use to justify this behavior) would result in the looting being more socially acceptable within that community. If you propagate a theory that you are entitled to more today because of something that happened 4 generations ago you open the door for justifying this thievery.

If only the black community were unified enough to adopt a mentality. Anyway, there's a difference between entitlement and understanding that the past has an effect on the present.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by __^^__

They were probably planning on the majority of the population being killed. That would be worse case.

No, they weren't planning on anything. They just hoped it would never happen and even believed it wouldn't. Everybody in N.O knew the city would flood if they got a direct hit from a major hurricane, but to most people it was always something of a trivial nature you tell jokingly to tourists like " it never will happen but it could! "

They should rename N.O to "Titanic City."

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by lavar78

If only the black community were unified enough to adopt a mentality. Anyway, there's a difference between entitlement and understanding that the past has an effect on the present.

The south's past in regards to slavery effects the region as a whole, and has almost zero effect on one particular group of people. There are just as many poor whites as there are poor blacks in the south.

The big money in the south during slavery represented a very small portion of the society, and what remains of those families to this day is typically in politics ( Al Gore for instance, whose family still owns and operates one TN's largest tobacco plantations, err farms ).

[tracemhunter]

ive said this before and ill say it again

i am not saying they deserve it, but they had it coming... just like that squirrel in the road.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by tracemhunter

ive said this before and ill say it again

i am not saying they deserve it, but they had it coming... just like that squirrel in the road.

Exactly.

I have immense sympathy for those who couldn't get out and are now trapped or even may have perished, but I have ZERO sympathy or patience for the state and city officials who knew for the longest time this would eventually happen, and obviously had no plan as to what they would do in the event.

[Boondoggle]

Originally Posted by __^^__

They were probably planning on the majority of the population being killed. That would be worse case.

not necessarily...

[GranolaBoy]

The whole thing is deplorable. My heart and prayers go to all those suffering such crimes.

I have to think that in some ways New Orleans is paying the Piper. It has made a lot of money on being a "sin city." And anyone who is familiar with Louisiana politics knows how deep this goes. I have a hard time believing the same level of rioting would occur in Sioux City Iowa or Flagstaff Arizona.

[JoshuaZ]

Wow, I so totally can`t even comment on this.

[Scandalous Ion Cannon]

And what is this about snipers outside of hospitals delaying evacuations. Sick.

[:dragonflypro:]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Exactly!
Tremendous poverty and social alienation turn people into savages NOT being born black.

Simply Outstanding!

Excellent and terse!

[exca1ibur]

Blame the media. (once again) Obviously there is a difference between two people who do the same thing. One is labelled a looter, one a resident, can you see the difference? Obviously they want to make sure we know this...

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Media_ca...nding_bread%22

Why can't everyone there just be labelled as people in need? Why does race or their financial status even need to be mentioned at all?

[m a d r a]

you can take the man out of the ju....

er... on second thoughts lets maintain a dignified silence on this one. participating in this thread is gonna be like tip-toeing through a minefield. the PC police are everywhere!


on the other hand, i thought this was a bit feeble:

After helping to triage and evacuate hospital patients in New Orleans since Hurricane Katrina's wrath bore down on the city, Louisiana Health Secretary Fred Cerise could only choke back tears.
"We have people there that we know we haven't been able to reach yet," he said, his voice breaking and his eyes rimmed red from lack of sleep.
Unable to continue describing the devastation, Cerise stepped away from a briefing podium Thursday and ended early his outline of the state health department's assistance in storm-ravaged New Orleans. Later, Gov. Kathleen Blanco hugged him tightly, and they wiped away tears.

one thing i've always sneakily admired about british politicians and public figures; there's none of this "i really feel your pain, even tho' i'm living the high life surrounded by bodyguards and fawning lackeys" 'touchy-feely' nonsense you get from the americans. yer average british cabinet minister will announce a couple of hundred deaths or a major disaster with all the emotion of someone who's been slightly inconvenienced by having their shoe-lace come undone.

c'mon yanks! - stiff upper lip and all that!

[__^^__]

Originally Posted by Boondoggle

not necessarily...

You are right. The situation there now is worse than if everybody had been killed.

[__^^__]

Originally Posted by lavar78

If only the black community were unified enough to adopt a mentality. Anyway, there's a difference between entitlement and understanding that the past has an effect on the present.

The only time you really hear black leaders is when there is a crisis.

[ironknee]

repression, in mind/emotion of the individual will eventually come out one way or another...society is that same

[FulcrumPilot]

Its the mob mentality. I bet each mob out there is trying to fight it out to see who survives. Individuals don't have a choice but join one mob or the other to survive. Must be frikking crazy. It is sad but sooner or later the law enforcement has act and tell who the real boss is or there will be more tragedies.

[KeriVit]

Originally Posted by greenamp

I posted this in a another thread, and am gonna paste it here to:

You guys are forgetting one important thing: New Orleans has always had one of the highest crime and murder rates in the nation. Forget what you see on TV or what you saw once on a vacation tour of the city, N.O is and always has been a cesspool of violence, murder, and crime.

I was born in N.O, and grew up in Baton Rouge. I've spent alot of time in N.O and let me tell you this, the city is 75% ghetto. The police couldn't keep things under control even in the best of times, so why does the lawlessness happening now surprise them?


__________________

DITTO.

I too, grew up in Baton Rouge and spent a lot of time in New Orleans, my brother lives on the other side of Lake Pontchartrain. You do not understand what these people are like unless you've been there. It is not because they are black, it's kind of people they are. There are many good black people that are being hurt, raped and killed by these junkies who can't get their fix.

I just got off the phone with my brother. He is busy cutting up the 23 trees that are down in his yard. His outrage is against the government and the fact that these people were left to rot for 5 days.

Yes, there was a mandatory evacuation, but many of these people don't have the means to evacuate. Many more were told they would be safe in the Superdome. They were left to die and they are surrounded by savages.

[d4nth3m4n]

Originally Posted by AKcrab

It's not about race, it's about income/education, not to mention that a large percentage of New Orleans is black. Give me a break.

yup.

[Kerrigan]

After watching events unfold, I've changed my opinion a bit. I believe that the very worst elements in New Orleans, the armed black men sniping at helicopters and so forth, are still a big part of the problem, and this can be traced back to black culture's romanticization of gang violence.

But I doubt any of this would have happened in the first place if Bush had called in the military to help earlier, rather than waiting and doing nothing day after day, while the city turned into armageddon.

Bush's handling of this event will destroy his reputation and it has hurt the US's image abroad.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Bush's handling of this event will destroy his reputation and it has hurt the US's image abroad.

Screw abroad, this is no 5th grade popularity contest. As if Bush can be any more hated by various lowlifes around the world.

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Screw abroad, this is no 5th grade popularity contest. As if Bush can be any more hated by various lowlifes around the world.

Wasn't that grade 3 Bush was in when the towers went down? I forget...some book about piggies or something.

[Salty]

News flash, the US's image abroad, even just up north sucks beyond what most of you understand. We'll hardly think less of you guys as a result of this... it's pretty hard to think less of America

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Salty

We'll hardly think less of you guys as a result of this...

The feeling is mutual, I can assure you.

[Scandalous Ion Cannon]

Originally Posted by PacHead

The feeling is mutual, I can assure you.

Oooh, the jealous Americans don't like Canada

Good things the terrorists and the rest of the world don't share that.

[Kerrigan]

The world opinion on America is very fickle, it changes with every new president. But as much as people hate the US, they at least respect it since it is the world's sole remaining superpower. Now it looks worse than a third world country in Louisiana.

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

Oooh, the jealous Americans don't like Canada

Good things the terrorists and the rest of the world don't share that.

You stepped in it.

Now he'll call you a terrorist lover.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

Oooh, the jealous Americans don't like Canada
Good things the terrorists and the rest of the world don't share that.

Why would the USA be jealous of Canada ? Would the world be a significantly different place without Canada ? I hardly think anybody would even notice much.

Canada will get hit by a devestating terrorist attack sooner or later. It is inevitable. You already have some within your borders. I'll be sure to study a minute by minute timeline of what your leaders do when this happens.

[ambush]

Loot N' Rape Fest.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Why would the USA be jealous of Canada ? Would the world be a significantly different place without Canada ? I hardly think anybody would even notice much.

The US would notice because they're our biggest trade partner.

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Why would the USA be jealous of Canada ? Would the world be a significantly different place without Canada ? I hardly think anybody would even notice much.

You realize the U.S. gets most of it imported oil from Canada.

Yeah, I think you and your 'made in China by an American company that used to be a Canadian company' heater would notice a LOT.

[Scandalous Ion Cannon]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Why would the USA be jealous of Canada ? Would the world be a significantly different place without Canada ? I hardly think anybody would even notice much.

Canada will get hit by a devestating terrorist attack sooner or later. It is inevitable. You already have some within your borders. I'll be sure to study a minute by minute timeline of what your leaders do when this happens.

Scary that you actually look forward to a terrorist attack on people. Really scary.

All you have to do is tell us what the US offers that Canada cannot? Why is the quality of life better in the US.

Simple question.

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Canada will get hit by a devestating terrorist attack sooner or later. It is inevitable. You already have some within your borders. I'll be sure to study a minute by minute timeline of what your leaders do when this happens.

A to a terrorist attack on Canada. How low can you go?

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster

Yeah, I think you and your 'made in China by an American company that used to be a Canadian company' heater would notice a LOT.

I think you missed the end of that old thread where I ended up returning that noisy heater and exchanged it for a different one.