[icruise]

Supposedly the fastest browser on the Mac. 2-3X faster than Explorer for many things. Can't tell if it is tabbed browsing or not.

Discuss.

[Ricky]

Can't wait to try it out!

[macrophyllum]

Looks like the "stole" some features from Chimera.

[NeXTLoop]

Much more likely is that IT IS Chimera. Apple hired Chimera's developer. This is probably very similar in situation to iTunes. They just bought SoundJam and made it iTunes.

[k2director]

I pray for tabs, and the ability to hide the nav bar with the back/forward buttons, etc.

Then I'm there...

[speedraycer]

Originally posted by k2director:
I pray for tabs, and the ability to hide the nav bar with the back/forward buttons, etc.

Then I'm there...

agreed- looks great. but what open source is it based on???

[Developer]

Originally posted by NeXTLoop:
Much more likely is that IT IS Chimera. Apple hired Chimera's developer. This is probably very similar in situation to iTunes. They just bought SoundJam and made it iTunes.

It's not Chimera and it's not Gecko based, but KHTML (whatever that is).

Downloadable Beta today.

[KaptainKaya]

where the hell is it?

[darkcore]

... who's gonna hack it up to make it look like CyberDog. =D

[unlinear]

KHTML is a part of the KDE environment and is used by the Konqueror browser.

[benb]

Originally posted by Developer:
It's not Chimera and it's not Gecko based, but KHTML (whatever that is).

Downloadable Beta today.

KHTML is KDE's HTML library. It is used by Gnome. I really have no experience with KHTML, maybe someone else can enlighten us?

Regards,
Ben

[NeXTLoop]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember correctly, KHTML is an Open-Source Linux browser.

[theolein]

KHTML is from KDE's C++ HTML component API. Konqueror(KDE Linux browser) is based on this. I don't know how good this is. Konqueror is known to have problems with advanced HTML.

[thuhFreak]

where can i [expletive deleted] download this [expletive deleted]?

[k2director]

Just watching the Keynote demo now. Safari + Keynote = Unhappy Microsoft. This is the Beginning of the End for the relatively chummy relationship between Steve and Bill. It may take a couple of years, but I can't see Microsoft continuing to support the Mac agressively when Apple keeps challenging it one app at a time.

Ultimately, I think Apple had to take this path, but it's not without some major risk...

[Pale Rider]

Originally posted by macrophyllum:
Looks like the "stole" some features from Chimera.

Well, I don't think they "stole" anything since they hired one of the Chimera developers for this [maybe more], and half the code is Open Source.

But whatever, they didn't "steal" enough. I'm here in the keynote, and Steve made no mention of tabs.

Tabs are what drove my use of Chimera/Navigator in the first place.

[macrophyllum]

I agree, Keynote looks like it will blow the socks off of PowerPoint===>unhappy MS.

(oops off topic)

[benb]

Originally posted by Pale Rider:


But whatever, they didn't "steal" enough. I'm here in the keynote, and Steve made no mention of tabs.

Tabs are what drove my use of Chimera/Navigator in the first place.

If there are no tabs, I'm not using it. Unless its really, really slick.

Regards,
Ben

[k2director]

By the way, regarding Safari's code base. Jobs said that they started with the open source code base, but improved it extensively. So hopefully those problems with Konqueror won't be an issue...

And say goodbye to the Omni browser, in case you hadn't already...

[SMacTech]

Originally posted by k2director:
Just watching the Keynote demo now. Safari + Keynote = Unhappy Microsoft.

Oh poor Microsoft and all of us Mac users. Who cares?

[jwblase]

WHile it does look like Chimera, It looks more like the Phoenix browser that I'm using at work right now. The google bar is here (not in Chimera) and the layout is pretty precise.

I understand that they're the same idea, but I think that Apple's on the right track here, especially since they're releasing their changes to the open-source community.

JB

[lavar78]

I would also like tabs, but what I really like about Chimera is the integration with Keychain. I need that before I can switch to Safari.

[sushiism]

no tabs but the bookmark system is really really great and it feels really fast havent had chance to test it on the real net jsut my own webpages. Think i might have to stay with chimera because of tabs but we'll see

[lland]

Just trying it and got this error message...

Sorry, the ***** Internet site cannot currently be viewed using
Netscape 6 or other browsers with the same rendering engine.

In the meantime, please use a different web browser or call
*********** to order items from the ***** catalogue.

Does this mean that it is linked to Netscape 6?

[lland]

You can download here...

http://www.apple.com/safari/

Or the software page of your national Apple web site

[IonCable]

For M$ this is ok, They won't have to spend time and resources on EI for the Mac anymore, a non-profit app. As for Keynote, it's not a problem either. Most Companies standardize on Office. Keynote is for the rogues and independants. It departments aren't going to support Keynote in most corps and M$ still gets to sell the Office package to the company. Does that make sense?? I'm tried.

[Wevah]

Originally posted by lland:
Just trying it and got this error message...

Sorry, the ***** Internet site cannot currently be viewed using
Netscape 6 or other browsers with the same rendering engine.

In the meantime, please use a different web browser or call
*********** to order items from the ***** catalogue.

Does this mean that it is linked to Netscape 6?

No...it means that Safari has "Netscape/5.0" and "Gecko" in its user agent string.

( Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/48 (like Gecko) Safari/48 )

[DVD Plaza]

Damn it is fast, not just with rendering but the actual program itself is damn quick.

BUT... brushed metal, for %^*&@#^$ sake

Already found a couple of tiny rendering quirks, but the browser has a built in fault reporting option so looks like they're keen to hear of any issues.

[Pale Rider]

Originally posted by lavar78:
I would also like tabs, but what I really like about Chimera is the integration with Keychain. I need that before I can switch to Safari.

Duh, I totally forgot to mention that; you are so right. I have already gotten so spoiled by Chimera's excellent keychain integration, that I cannot imagine not having it. That is, until I use IE or Omniweb. And now, unfortunately, Safari.

I also now have this problem where, because Safari can't validate a security certificate at a site I routinely use in Chimera and IE, it won't even render the page. I sent the bug report in on that [nicely done feature].

[JHromadka]

So how do I import bookmarks from Chimera to Safari?

[pedroperez80]

I think the Safari Web browser still needs
a lot of work before I use it.
I personally find Chimera faster and with better features.

[cpac]

Ok, it is fast, but where's the refinement?

No bookmark checking, no shortcuts, no add blocking (only pop-ups)

No tab-like implementation (and worse yet, new windows attempt to tile even if they're full screen).

All kinds of problems with https: - can't log into my university's web page or Westlaw.

On a timeout or whatever, the error-having window pops to the font - wasn't the point of sheets that dialogues would stay with their window AND not get in your way?

It doesn't remember window position from quit to launch (instead puts window down about a title-bar and to the right about an inch on my tiBook)

That said, it's great at rendering things OW can't handle, and that even Chimera chokes on occasionally (Toboot.com, e.g. works marvelously, as does eAttorney, which before required IE).

----------------

Real question though: Does this kill other browser development? (By killing their marketshare, or at least "mindshare?") Or do Chimera and OW still have enough going for them that they'll stay alive?

-----------------

Also, what's the word on this KHTML engine? If it's not objective-C, does that mean it'll have problems using multiple threads and whatnot like Gecko does? Or?

-----------------

[Lucidwray]

I dont know about everyone else, but on my system, Safari dosent seem fast at all. Chimera is several times faster. Wired.com loads almost instantly in Chimera, but in Safari it takes almost 20 seconds.

Could it be because I dont have a G4? Im still on a heavily upgraded Blue & White G3. (Although m no G4 )

Anyway, without tabbed browsing, it wont knock off Chimera as my main browser.

What does everyone else think of the speed?

[Northform]

KHTML is part of the KDE project and is the HTML rendering engine for Konqueror, the KDE web and file browser. It has nothing to do with Gnome. Gnome uses Nautalus for a file browser and Galeon for a web browser.

I've always felt that Konqueror has needed work, but maybe Apple has fixed that (I haven't gotten a chance to try it out yet). One thing I know is fixed are fonts. Konqueror always rendered terrable fonts (I haven't used KDE 3 so it might be fixed there). Linux has poor fonts in general unless you get one of those nice RedHat xft packages.

It is nice to know that Apple is giving back all the code to the rendering engine. Maybe others will get interested in it now that Apple has had a go at it.

[sahara]

I suspect some of the slow load times compared to Chimera have to do with modified Chimeras using pipelining. Can anyone tell if Safari is using pipelining? Chimera got a big boost when I turned it on.

[kman42]

To import from Chimera:

1) export from Chimera and import into IE
2) Delete safari App
3) Delete safari prefs (the plist in Library->Prefs)
4) Delete Library->Safari folder
5) Install safari
6) Drag things out of the Imported from IE bookmarks folder

OR

1) drag items one at a time from Chimera to Safari

The first method will let you get everything in at once, but requires 5 minutes of annoying rigmarole. The second method is also annoying, but in a different way.

kman

[Liquidity X]

I love it, still hs a few bug, no more than chimera, handles all video media types, mmore than chimera did, LOVE the new bookmarks, OMG so much better! All i miss/neeed is tabs, I have fallen in love with em inthe short time I have used Chimera, autofill forms would be a nice addition, and simaler keychain access liek in chimera, but abit more reworked. SOme times put user names in wrong spots, liek whern filling out a form oin a site I had to log into. But fux IE, thsisi now my new browser!

[[APi]TheMan]

Originally posted by macrophyllum:
Looks like the "stole" some features from Chimera.

Stole some features? What, like the address bar? Or "bookmarks"... or wait, maybe that super new and innovative auto completion of URLs that no other browser has?

Stop pointing fingers, Safari isn't even remotely from the same codebase as Chimera (Safari is based on Konquerer, Chimera based on Mozilla).

Heh.

[Boochie]

Feels pretty speedy on my G4/867. I'd use it regularly were it not for the fuzzy text. It gave me a headache pretty quickly. Unfortunately the program appears to ignore system-wide or application-specific anti aliasing threshold settings.

[TC]

It doesn't feel fast to me, much slower than Chimera.

It also isn't very good standards wise. It has choked for me on several sites already.
Why didn't they just base it on Gecko???

I so wanted to like this browser but it has less features than OmniWeb and about the same level of standards compliance. Unfortunately its presence will probably destroy development of Chimera.

[DVD Plaza]

Originally posted by Lucidwray:
I dont know about everyone else, but on my system, Safari dosent seem fast at all. Chimera is several times faster. Wired.com loads almost instantly in Chimera, but in Safari it takes almost 20 seconds.

Are you taking into account that your Chimera would have a cache of all the graphics/etc whereas Safari is loading those pages for the very first time on your system? If you load those pages a second time, now that Safari has cached the graphics/etc, I'm sure you'll get a much much much faster experience.

[DVD Plaza]

Originally posted by Lucidwray:
I dont know about everyone else, but on my system, Safari dosent seem fast at all. Chimera is several times faster. Wired.com loads almost instantly in Chimera, but in Safari it takes almost 20 seconds.

Are you taking into account that your Chimera would have a cache of all the graphics/etc whereas Safari is loading those pages for the very first time on your system? If you load those pages a second time, now that Safari has cached the graphics/etc, I'm sure you'll get a much much much faster experience.

[raviruddarraju]

Originally posted by cpac:
Ok, it is fast, but where's the refinement?

All kinds of problems with https: - can't log into my university's web page or Westlaw.


-----------------

I have had some problems accessing https and javascript. I guess that will show up in the final release.

[nibeck]

Damn this thing is fast! Faster than anything I've seen recently on OS X.

Mirror door, dual 1Gh. No problems yet. Stills needs some work on features, but it's a really sweet start.

Remember folks, it's still a beta product!

- Mike

[raviruddarraju]

Originally posted by cpac:
Ok, it is fast, but where's the refinement?


All kinds of problems with https: - can't log into my university's web page or Westlaw.


-----------------

I have had some problems with https. But again, I used to have problems with OW when using https. Otherwise, many more websites that I frequently visit are working so much better than all the browsers I have used in past. May be we will get those https enhancements in the final release.

[Spliff]

Yes, it's fast.

But has several big flaws. The lack of tabbed browsing has already been mentioned.

The one that really annoys me is the way the "Bookmarks Bar" handles lots of bookmarks. Instead of wrapping them to the next line the way Chimera does, it instead sticks them off-screen where you can only access them by clicking on the arrow menu (IE style).

This really annoys the sh*t out of me. I sent them feedback.

However, they're on the right track with the iTunes-style bookmark manage.

I also like the way Chimera utitilizes the Keychain (with the option to turn it off).

[ambush]

It's beta software so I don't mind the lack of features yet.

Here's my wish list.

- Formatted Source View (Coloured syntax � la Chimera )
- Tabbed Browsing ( can't wait. )
- More key customization ( � la OW )
- Replace the ugly TextView progress bar ( yuk! )
- More standard toolbar..
- Faster ( I *know* Apple can do it )
- The buttons don't really match the brushed metal but.. ok..
- More search engine support in the quikc search field

[cpac]

The timeout limit is a problem (at least today, browsing MacNN etc.).

Anyway, while I agree that Safari is a "great start" it is now one of three "great starts" available to the Mac browsing community.

Why didn't Apple invest in OmniWeb or Chimera?

They mention the small codebase of KHTML compared to "another open souced browser" (aka Gecko) on their website.

Perhaps the reason not to go with the OW stuff is that they wanted the open source exposure? But really, why do this? Certainly with the year+ they've been coding, they could have bought and brought OmniWeb a huge way - we could have a 100% cocoa/Objective-C browser that showcased all the good OS X technologies. I'm sure Apple could find enough change in their $4 billion to compensate/absorb the relevant parts of the OmniGroup.

So what were they thinking?

[fulmer]

So...any of you geniuses figured out how to block ads with this sucker? You know, like with Chimera (by ediing the cookperm file).

[gunnar]

So far, everything works as promised. On TiBook 400 the speed is definitely 2-3 times faster than IE and still faster than Chimera etc. I'm not a fan of the brushed metal but the sparse interface is great and the rendering seems excellent so far. It hasn't choked on anything and seems to do the "little things" like keep cookies and return to previous pages without messing things up.

I also like all the little touches like the items under the Safari menu, the orange back buttons to go to the root of a site, and the nifty progress bar in the address area.

Since this is only a beta I am confident 1.0 will be better than anything out there and we'll see the same kind of jumps as with the iApps in each successive milestone.

Way to go Apple. Mac users are that bit happier and if it's true that the source is going public, KHTML (linux) users will be happy too.

This is the only way to keep abreast with Microsoft. There has to be the support of the number one unix company behind the browser, whatever it is and now it's been decided.