Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Another MacBook Review on NotebookReview, a Full One This Time

Another MacBook Review on NotebookReview, a Full One This Time
Thread Tools
donovan
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jul 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 2, 2006, 12:19 PM
 
Recently another MacBook review was posted on NBR, the first review sparked an arguement as it had the word review in the title so people skimming through may have thought it was a complete review, when in reality, it specifically stated it was a preview. That review in full will be up soon enough, but in the mean time another came along.

MacBook (Matte Black) 2.0GHz version review:
http://www.notebookreview.com/defaul...+Color+Version

Review within the discussion thread:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=56638

NotebookReview releases many reviews as its members are allowed to write them, and, as long as they follow the guidelines and are useful, they're posted and added to the archives. The most reviews I've seen for a single notebook is eight, yet, I wouldn't be surprised if the Macbook recieves more than that.

Just thought I'd post this, I decided to make a new thread because bumping the old one may have started up the small fight again and lead to something worse.

-Reize
     
donovan  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jul 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 08:23 AM
 
No comments?
     
flukewurm
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 09:45 AM
 
i stopped reading when he started bitching about the lack of a 2nd mouse button.
     
simon966
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: PA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 10:06 AM
 
I always do my photo shoots for my reviews on the washer/dryer
     
jat
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jul 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 10:24 AM
 
I stopped reading when he said you "half" to deal with the performance...
What is this guy - like 5 years old?
     
monkeybrain
Mac Elite
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 10:27 AM
 
It seems quite impartial really. His points about the second mouse button are irrelevent, since you can use two fingers to do it, but on the whole it seems quite fair. Don't think I agree with his verdict on the keyboard though, from the ones I've tried in a store they seem good, and look very nice too.
     
donovan  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jul 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 10:44 AM
 
flukewarm; The second mouse button on a PC is extremely useful to many people, it was for him so he commented on it. Would you have preferred he just left his comments about what he thought of the product in his review to himself?

viable; So because he makes a simple error when he hadn't before that, you reserve your first post on these forums to insult him.. That insult was really unecessary.

monkeybrain; If I'm not mistaken, that doesn't work when using Win XP on it yet, correct? If he were doing that on the go it would present a problem as many of windows commands use the second mouse button. As for the keyboard, I like it myself, the looks and style anyway, I've been meaning to try one out sometime, but there isn't an Apple store in my state, so, that leaves out the easiest option unless I travel.
     
flukewurm
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 11:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Reize
flukewUrm; The second mouse button on a PC is extremely useful to many people, it was for him so he commented on it. Would you have preferred he just left his comments about what he thought of the product in his review to himself?
please tell me. what is the big deal about having a dedicated secondary mouse button on the trackpad? apple + click has always worked fine for me. (not to mention the new 2-fingers-on-the-trackpad + click) he also made a comment "whats next. a 2 button mouse? HA!".. when we all know apple has already put out the mightymouse..

i just dont understand what the big deal is. there are plenty of options for those who NEED more buttons on their pointing devices. and for PC weenies feel it necessary to keep mentioning it REVIEW after REVIEW after REVIEW.. okay. we get the point. apple computers generally have one mouse button. get over it.
     
flukewurm
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 11:10 AM
 
also he mentions 'for the money i would have expected.. blah blah..' when in the beginning of the article he points out that he realizes that he spent the extra $150 on the black just because it looks nice... gib me a bweak.
     
donovan  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jul 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 11:17 AM
 
Just because a previous review mentioned it, you should leave it out isn't good advice to me. It has to do with convenience, why press two buttons when there's ample space to add a spot where it would do the same with one.

He expected to get his money's worth for $1500, and there are other laptops with more for the same amount. He just said there was room for improovement, which is true of anything..
     
Simon
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 11:28 AM
 
Reize, what's the deal with kissing the author's ass?

You feel the need to defend the article against any criticism mentioned at all. The same as with their last 'review' on a MB. Why? With your post count of 22 and your history of writing only about notebookreview articles, what credibility do you think you have here?

The article is mediocre at best, not very objective and the author seems to favor a somewhat childish writing style - all in all, it's certainly not a MB review you shouldn't miss. That said, just learn to accept that not all people love the article/author as much as you do. There's no need to evangelize. We can think for ourselves. Thank you.
( Last edited by Simon; Jun 3, 2006 at 11:36 AM. )
•
     
harrisjamieh
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 11:42 AM
 
Reize, are you actually the guy who reviewed the laptop on notebookreview.com? because you seem very very touchy about people saying bad things about it, and all you do is defend it, when clearly, the reviewer made some dumbass comments, like the 'for the money i would have expected' thing flukewurm mentioned...

Seriously, you are either the reviewer, know the reviewer, or are indeed a rather odd person

Edit: Damn, Simon beat me to half of the stuff I said...
iMac Core Duo 1.83 Ghz | 1.25GB RAM | 160HD, MacBook Core Duo 1.83 Ghz | 13.3" | 60HD | 1.0GB RAM
     
donovan  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jul 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 11:45 AM
 
I'm simply commenting on unfair things said, I am in no way kissing the author's ass.

I'm not defending it from any criticism, just much of what has been posted, comments like "I read to here then stopped when he misspelled a word" and such aren't criticism, they're insults, which is just uncalled for.

I'm not saying it's a top-end article, it was written by just another consumer giving his two cents on the product, so I don't expect it to be.

I don't love the article, it's okay but not the best work I've seen by a long shot.

I'm not trying to force my opinions onto anyone, I'm just replying to what they said, and I don't see how that's evangelization.

As for my credibility and commenting on my post count, the latter is irrelevant and the former doesn't matter to me. I'm simply posting to give my opinion on the subject, if you don't like it for some reason, that's fine. I'm not insulting anyone, and i don't feel I deserve to be in return.

EDIT:

I'm not the reviewer, simply because I reply with what I think about what they said it doesn't mean I'm touchy about it.

I just believe a few of the things said were unfair and thus wanted to respond with what I thought, just as you are doing.
     
flukewurm
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 11:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by Reize
Just because a previous review mentioned it, you should leave it out isn't good advice to me. It has to do with convenience, why press two buttons when there's ample space to add a spot where it would do the same with one.

He expected to get his money's worth for $1500, and there are other laptops with more for the same amount. He just said there was room for improovement, which is true of anything..
no. not just because a previous review mentioned it. but because its common knowledge.. aaaaaand because HUNDREDS of previous reviews have mentioned it. so you go from 'extremely useful' to 'convenience'.. *grunt* and why you ask?.. i mean i dont mind mice with lots of buttons. i have a 5 button mouse on my main PC. but becuase your average computer user right clicks less than 5% of the time anyways. i have never seen it as going out of my way to have to apple+click. and having one mouse button simplifies life 95% of the time. seriously.. why? i dont know. google it.

... he spent $150 more on color. and bitched about price/features. dont argue with me about this.
     
donovan  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jul 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 11:59 AM
 
Regardless, if he left out mentioning the mouse had a single button, it would be an incomplete review. Often-times completely computer illiterate people read reviews too. Common knowledge in one sect does not equate to common knowledge in everyday lives.

I said the right click function was extremely useful, I said having a right button is a matter of convenience.

I'm going off my own experience, and I right click very often. I'm not saying it's going out of your way, I'm saying it's more convenient to press one thing rather than two. I don't see why having two buttons is complicated if "one simplifies life 95% of the time".

He just said there could have been more for the price, which is true, he didn't complain about lack of features, he simply said it wasn't perfect, and he gave it a very good score at the end.

I'm not arguing, I thought we were having a discussion, but I suppose I was mistaken..
     
harrisjamieh
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 12:07 PM
 
Reize, for goodness sake, why do you give a tiny rats arse about this poxy review - its a piece of writing by some nobody somewhere in the world, about his thoughts about a computer....

And with regard to the right click thing.... I MUCH prefer to tap instead of click the button, and the new 'tap with 2 fingers instead of one for right click' thing is 10X better than a right click button IMO



Now, give it a rest.

Oh, and:

Originally Posted by Reize
Just thought I'd post this, I decided to make a new thread because bumping the old one may have started up the small fight again and lead to something worse.
iMac Core Duo 1.83 Ghz | 1.25GB RAM | 160HD, MacBook Core Duo 1.83 Ghz | 13.3" | 60HD | 1.0GB RAM
     
donovan  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jul 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 12:11 PM
 
Because maybe I'm a compassionate human being who doesn't like seeing others only trying to help get insulted.

I'm curious as to what's funny about that. This isn't a fight if that's what you think, it's a discussion. I believe telling someone to stop giving their opinions when they aren't hurting or insulting to anyone isn't very proper.

That's just waht I think.
     
harrisjamieh
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 12:17 PM
 
Well if this isn't a fight, then there was no risk of starting up "the small fight again", as this thread is no less ugly than the last you posted
iMac Core Duo 1.83 Ghz | 1.25GB RAM | 160HD, MacBook Core Duo 1.83 Ghz | 13.3" | 60HD | 1.0GB RAM
     
donovan  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jul 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 12:40 PM
 
I didn't post that thread, actually.

It was progressively turning into one, just as this is, simply because I reply to something, defend what I think should be and don't have a very high post count, it seems.

I didn't want it to turn into a fight, but I suppose when I speak my opinion around hear it must be so..
     
flukewurm
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 01:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Reize
Regardless, if he left out mentioning the mouse had a single button, it would be an incomplete review. Often-times completely computer illiterate people read reviews too. Common knowledge in one sect does not equate to common knowledge in everyday lives.

I said the right click function was extremely useful, I said having a right button is a matter of convenience.

I'm going off my own experience, and I right click very often. I'm not saying it's going out of your way, I'm saying it's more convenient to press one thing rather than two. I don't see why having two buttons is complicated if "one simplifies life 95% of the time".
as if someone who were computer illiterate would care if there were 2 buttons or 1 button on the trackpad.

i find it useful too. but not useful enough to care one way or another on 1 or 2 buttons... thats why im sick of hearing about it. the ' simplifies life 95% of the time' comment was completely tongue in cheek. as connotated by 'i dont know. google it.'....
     
donovan  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jul 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 01:13 PM
 
They may, the point of a review is to cover as many angles as you can.
     
simon966
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: PA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 03:35 PM
 
Is it me or was the first thing this guy did was install Windows? Maybe he should have bought a Dell if he wanted two mouse buttons.
     
zubro
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 05:47 PM
 
Does this computer run Mac OS X?
     
Hi I'm Ben
Mac Elite
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 05:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by zubro
Does this computer run Mac OS X?
No only downloaded copies of windows.
     
monkeybrain
Mac Elite
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 08:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Reize
flukewarm; The second mouse button on a PC is extremely useful to many people, it was for him so he commented on it. Would you have preferred he just left his comments about what he thought of the product in his review to himself?

monkeybrain; If I'm not mistaken, that doesn't work when using Win XP on it yet, correct? If he were doing that on the go it would present a problem as many of windows commands use the second mouse button.
Yes, I agree the second mouse button is essential in Windows. However, (and it is a big however), running Windows is not supported on the Macbook. Bootcamp is beta software and Apple does not support users installing Windows. Therefore, making a comment in a review on a Macbook about the lack of a second mouse button and how this is inconvenient in Windows is completely irrelevant; it is analogous to him complaining that some feature in a Linux installation does not work.

The Macbook is designed to run Mac OS X, not anything else; you can run other things, but it isn't supported. if his review had been centred on using the Macbook as a multi-os machine then the point would carry some validity.

It is also misleading, because it may give the impression that you can't right-click in Mac OS, when of course you can, with ease using two fingers or crtl-click.
     
Severed Hand of Skywalker
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The bottom of Cloud City
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 3, 2006, 11:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by bdwilso2
I always do my photo shoots for my reviews on the washer/dryer
I was going to say the same thing. How professional is that?

"Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
     
chris v
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Sar Chasm
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 4, 2006, 12:22 AM
 
I skimmed the whole thing, and though I thought it was a fair review, I noticed he used the phrase "more superior" twice. Not much of an English speaker, for someone who apparently writes for a living.

When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift.
     
unix
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 4, 2006, 01:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by Reize
Because maybe I'm a compassionate human being who doesn't like seeing others only trying to help get insulted.

I'm curious as to what's funny about that. This isn't a fight if that's what you think, it's a discussion. I believe telling someone to stop giving their opinions when they aren't hurting or insulting to anyone isn't very proper.

That's just waht I think.
Now who exactly made u moderator in telling people to stop giving opinions? If you intend that, you're not really having a discussion are you? N i totally agree with monkeybrain in saying that the 2-button argument is irrelevant since it doesn't work in Windows, which is NOT what the MacBook is designed to run.
     
unix
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 4, 2006, 02:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Reize
Regardless, if he left out mentioning the mouse had a single button, it would be an incomplete review. Often-times completely computer illiterate people read reviews too. Common knowledge in one sect does not equate to common knowledge in everyday lives.

I said the right click function was extremely useful, I said having a right button is a matter of convenience.

I'm going off my own experience, and I right click very often. I'm not saying it's going out of your way, I'm saying it's more convenient to press one thing rather than two. I don't see why having two buttons is complicated if "one simplifies life 95% of the time".

He just said there could have been more for the price, which is true, he didn't complain about lack of features, he simply said it wasn't perfect, and he gave it a very good score at the end.

I'm not arguing, I thought we were having a discussion, but I suppose I was mistaken..
I'm sure a completely computer ILLITERATE person will be able to log on to a computer, log on to the internet, and then say, Oh' let me check out NBR's review of the macbook.
More likely, their going to talk to people they know who have computers and take their opinion. And by then 95% of the times they'll know the difference between a Mac & a PC, and the one-click, two-click deal. If you look at it from that light, the reviewer is actually blurring the lines between a PC and Mac, by installing Windows on it first thing. That is further gonna confuse an illiterate person rather than how many buttons a mouse has.

Baseless argument (sorry since your not arguing, comment) there Reize...
     
analogika
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 888500128
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 4, 2006, 06:10 AM
 
     
dazzla
Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 4, 2006, 07:26 AM
 
Hi guys, I posted my own Macbook review over at Neowin:

http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=466765

I did attempt to post it here but it had gone over its character limit.
     
donovan  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jul 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 4, 2006, 12:50 PM
 
phoenixash: I'm not entirely sure what you mean, I said I want people to give their opinions as long as they're not plain insulting, and you somehow construe that to mean I don't want them to?

As for a computer illiterate, person seeing a review on NBR, friends can point out articles to them, there's' many different things that can happen, and the point of a review, as I said before, is to cover all angles.

chris v: He doesn't write for a living, he's just a guy who bought a MacBook and decided he'd tell people what he thought of it in a more elaborate fashion than most.

Monkeybrain; I understand what you mean, I just think, even the irrelevant details should be present in a complete and thorough review, however, he could have said in a less missleading manner, I agree.
     
unix
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 4, 2006, 01:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Reize
phoenixash: I'm not entirely sure what you mean, I said I want people to give their opinions as long as they're not plain insulting, and you somehow construe that to mean I don't want them to?

As for a computer illiterate, person seeing a review on NBR, friends can point out articles to them, there's' many different things that can happen, and the point of a review, as I said before, is to cover all angles.

chris v: He doesn't write for a living, he's just a guy who bought a MacBook and decided he'd tell people what he thought of it in a more elaborate fashion than most.

Monkeybrain; I understand what you mean, I just think, even the irrelevant details should be present in a complete and thorough review, however, he could have said in a less missleading manner, I agree.
well what u view as insulting, in my view is constructive criticism. so i don't agree where you say you don't want people to give opinions which are insulting, cause they aren't really.
     
donovan  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jul 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2006, 11:27 AM
 
I view comments like 'what is he, 5?' insulting, I didn't tell them to not post the other ones that weren't insulting, I just commented on theirs as to what I thought about the subject.
     
unix
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2006, 09:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Reize
I view comments like 'what is he, 5?' insulting, I didn't tell them to not post the other ones that weren't insulting, I just commented on theirs as to what I thought about the subject.
yeah but u do realize ur going round and round in circles rite? and ur contradicting yourself....first you said its an irrelevant detail, but then it should be included in a complete and thorough review. if its irrelevant, its not gonna in anyway contribute to a review!!

and i would like to re-iterate that the second mouse click comment had no relevance since he was commenting on the macbook running windows, and he said there is no solution to it. if you check the program above, there clearly is. for a complete and thorough review, he should have researched, and added the minor detail that there are programs available online to overcome the 2-button thing. that would contribute more, rather than just mentioning that it just doesn't work.

IMHO of course.
     
icruise
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2006, 10:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by pheonixash
yeah but u do realize ur going round and round in circles rite? and ur contradicting yourself....first you said its an irrelevant detail, but then it should be included in a complete and thorough review. if its irrelevant, its not gonna in anyway contribute to a review!!
I hate to break in here, but do you think you could do us the courtesy of spelling out your words? It only takes a few extra seconds, but that and using proper capitalization and punctuation will greatly improve the impression you make.
     
donovan  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jul 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2006, 10:40 PM
 
In a complete and thorough review even the irrelevant details are present, I contradicted myself in no way.

So he didn't know of some obscure program hidden in the vast folds of the internet, so he made a mistake, he's not doing this for cash, he's doing this to give his opinions out to the populous.
     
donovan  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jul 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2006, 11:04 PM
 
Yet another review was just posted, this one, though I haven't gotten the chance to read it entirely, I just skimmed through it before linking it, looks to be much more thorough.

This time it's for the 2.0GHz version of the White MacBook

Review:
http://www.notebookreview.com/defaul...+Color+Version

Review with discussion thread:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=57851
     
unix
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2006, 11:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Reize
Yet another review was just posted, this one, though I haven't gotten the chance to read it entirely, I just skimmed through it before linking it, looks to be much more thorough.

This time it's for the 2.0GHz version of the White MacBook

Review:
http://www.notebookreview.com/defaul...+Color+Version

Review with discussion thread:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=57851
Umm...it's the same review as the one on Neowin which dazzla posted a link to, earlier in the thread.
     
unix
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2006, 11:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Icruise
I hate to break in here, but do you think you could do us the courtesy of spelling out your words? It only takes a few extra seconds, but that and using proper capitalization and punctuation will greatly improve the impression you make.
Ok, will do that. Sorry about it.
     
donovan  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jul 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 5, 2006, 11:40 PM
 
I hadn't noticed that, but still, it's new to NBR.
     
StiZeven
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: New York City
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 6, 2006, 01:37 AM
 
The review everyone is talking about looks like a simple user review that was submitted to that site. It's not an 'official' review by the site's admins (who also submit reviews on both personal and loaned machines).

That's pretty much what that site is. A bunch of users submitting reviews (based on a template to try and cover all areas using the same format) of their notebooks within the notebook community. Some submit more than others. The idea is that these reviews are at least somewhat more in-depth and have photos unlike the fake 'review-site-of-the-week' that is unfortunately flooding Google searches when researching a new product.

It would be like someone posting their review here with their unpacking pics and comments and their own personal likes and dislikes. So, there is no need to jump down anyone's throat. Also, I see no difference in someone's laundry room where he (unfortunately) took these pics and some of the messy desks/rooms the Mac users here have posted in their 'review' and or picture threads.

What I find funny is, if the user/reviewer had nothing but positive things to say (like so many Mac sites and their throw away reviews - a la MacWorld), no one here would be bitching about his writing or photography skills. It is at least better than c|net with the usual 35 second video showing you where the ports are.
     
   
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:18 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,