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Chuckit · Jul 29, 2007, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by NateMarg

Here is a quick diagram with separator angled to use the same vanishing point as the dock edges.

Except that everything on the dock uses a different perspective that resets for each tile, so who knows how the separator should look?

0157988944 · Jul 30, 2007, 12:04 AM

If they tried to make perspective laws apply to the dock, it would look really weird, simply because it's already weird. I never see it as a dock extending from the screen edge back to the desktop. I see it as the same dock from Tiger, parallel or even on top of the desktop, just with angled edges. Nothing about it gives a 3-d feel.

NateMarg · Jul 30, 2007, 01:17 AM

Yeah, I agree there is a problem with the icons all have a different perspectives. They should have extended the icon file to include (optionally) Open GL 3D icons. That would would have been a relatively simple change and would open up a lot of interface possibilities. It would definitely allow for great scaling and other effects beyond the current bitmaps.

Chuckit · Jul 30, 2007, 01:45 AM

Originally Posted by NateMarg

Yeah, I agree there is a problem with the icons all have a different perspectives. They should have extended the icon file to include (optionally) Open GL 3D icons. That would would have been a relatively simple change

Spoken like somebody who doesn't do icon design…

BWhaler · Jul 30, 2007, 02:35 AM

Originally Posted by hldan

Dude, get real, what planet are you on??? What makes you think that the version that Apple has sent to the developers is the one with all the features? Did it ever occur to you that Apple is sitting on the final version with all 300 features at headquarters? Did it ever occur to you why Apple has taken no action on the developer preview that was posted on BitTorrent? Apple doesn't give a rats behind that it's on BitTorrent because the WWDC version only has the basics. Notice that they didn't show anything involving Spotlight?
The developer preview version doesn't have anything new in Spotlight and Spotlight is an integral part of OS X.
Do you get it now? There's another version of Leopard at Apple's headquarters that they don't want to reveal.

You know absolutely nothing about software development.

But that's OK, just remember that Apple said this was the "feature complete" version.

It is what it is...

Obi Wan's Ghost · Jul 30, 2007, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Spoken like somebody who doesn't do icon design…

3D Open GL icons are not a simple change but I do see them happening one day because of the 3D dock. As it is now, reflections for some icons don't look right (VLC's bollard for example) and the shadows are ugly. 3D icons with Open GL shadows, lighting and reflections would be the perfect remedy and would be ideal for CoverFlow view in the Finder too.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jul 30, 2007, 07:31 PM

You guys are getting a bit fussy.

NateMarg · Jul 30, 2007, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

You guys are getting a bit fussy.

That's why we use Macs, right?

0157988944 · Jul 30, 2007, 08:08 PM

A point for NateMarg.

Catfish_Man · Jul 31, 2007, 03:10 AM

fwiw, I'd be shocked if there's only 300 new features in Leopard. Heck, I bet if I got nitpicky enough I could actually find a hundred or so without even having to point at API tweaks. There's a lot of little stuff that doesn't get mentioned much.

moonmonkey · Jul 31, 2007, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost

3D Open GL icons are not a simple change but I do see them happening one day because of the 3D dock. As it is now, reflections for some icons don't look right (VLC's bollard for example) and the shadows are ugly. 3D icons with Open GL shadows, lighting and reflections would be the perfect remedy and would be ideal for CoverFlow view in the Finder too.

If you think about it, it wouldn't be too much trouble, icons would still be designed as 512 x 512 bitmaps, the OS would just paint that on the front of 3D object the shape of which would be defined automatically by the mask of the icon.

The only additional work for the icon designer would be to provide a single additional bitmap for the surrounding T/B/L/R plane (only visible when the icon was tilted by the OS) and to also specify the angle and shape of the surrounding plane and the degree or reflectivity of the material the icon is made of.

The icons would not need to totally rotate, they would only need to tilt about 30 degrees from the front elevation.

This would change the look of the OS and most icons would need to be reworked, but overall it would increase the consistency of the icons as the OS would handle all shadows and reflections.

NateMarg · Jul 31, 2007, 10:46 PM

I thought that they could just append the existing icon format to have the option of 3D models. They would obviously still need to display apps and files that do not include a 3D model. Much the way the existing format is backwards compatible back to mono one bit icons.

The bulk of the files (documents, photos, MP3s, etc.) on a computer would not need 3D models. These could use existing bitmaps. In the vein of moonmonkey's thoughts, these could even be auto-textured onto a flat plane that is slightly rotated and tipped back a bit. This would give the bitmaped icons a bit more dimension.

The models would need to be full models and separate from the bitmaps. In all likelihood, many models would include unconnected objects and/or transparent materials. Examples: the loupe and photos in the Preview app, the mesh of Trash, and magnifying glass and hat in Sherlock.

0157988944 · Aug 4, 2007, 09:32 PM

Extensive 9A499 Gallery:

http://worldofapple.com/photos/Leopard/9A499

besson3c · Aug 4, 2007, 09:37 PM

It's funny to me that when people put their necks out on a line posting illegal screenshots like this that they choose to post the most boring shots imaginable, or stuff that hasn't changed at all, or stuff that is incredibly minor and trivial

0157988944 · Aug 4, 2007, 09:39 PM

haha I know, but to be fair, nothing really happened in this build, at least nothing that can be screenshot. A couple new icons and a dock separator and different menu highlights, it looks...

0157988944 · Aug 5, 2007, 04:11 PM

Does anybody else think that Front Row in Leopard (via an iTunes Update) will have YouTube built in? There's already the iPhone, and Apple TV. I think iTunes is next.

analogika · Aug 5, 2007, 04:14 PM

'Twould make sense.

PaperNotes · Aug 5, 2007, 04:21 PM

Very doubtful. Apple wants you to use Safari so they can increase market share and they don't want to annoy Google who want YouTube.com visits in a browser for ad revenue.

PaperNotes · Aug 5, 2007, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

haha I know, but to be fair, nothing really happened in this build, at least nothing that can be screenshot. A couple new icons and a dock separator and different menu highlights, it looks...

Yeah man ever since I got the latest build I didn't waste time taking screens because nothing major changed yet. I heard from a techie that there will be bigger cosmetic changes to all the rough spots like scroll bars in September builds.

0157988944 · Aug 5, 2007, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by PaperNotes

Very doubtful. Apple wants you to use Safari so they can increase market share and they don't want to annoy Google who want YouTube.com visits in a browser for ad revenue.

Neither of your reasons make sense. Someone who doesn't already use Safari isn't going to switch to Safari to look at YouTube... so they won't gain any market share.

Secondly, by putting YouTube on Apple TV and iPhone, they "annoyed Google who want YouTube.com visits in a browser for ad revenue."

PaperNotes · Aug 5, 2007, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

Neither of your reasons make sense.

Thanks

0157988944 · Aug 5, 2007, 05:09 PM

Well.. I'm hoping for YouTube through iTunes anyway.

PaperNotes · Aug 6, 2007, 06:18 AM

Just a quick note to Oreo Cookie. Geforce FX 5200 support has arrived with the latest Leopard build. Full blur and transparency effects!

moonmonkey · Aug 6, 2007, 06:44 AM

Oreo just punched air.

Sethro · Aug 6, 2007, 07:17 PM

Just a quick question to anyone using the newest Leopard build...

Do you see a significant difference when using "Resolution Independence" on the new Leopard?
Do fonts and pictures really look better when using Leopard over TIger?

besson3c · Aug 6, 2007, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by Sethro

Just a quick question to anyone using the newest Leopard build...

Do you see a significant difference when using "Resolution Independence" on the new Leopard?
Do fonts and pictures really look better when using Leopard over TIger?

Resolution independence does not improve the looks of fonts and pictures, but allows you to set your resolution higher (providing you have hardware which supports this) while not making your widgets and controls tinier.

Vista sort of does this with bitmaps, but true resolution independence would be vector based.

analogue SPRINKLES · Aug 7, 2007, 04:09 PM

Ok so iLife 08 uses the iTunes scroll bars so we can pretty much bet all of 10.5 will use them also.

lpkmckenna · Aug 7, 2007, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Ok so iLife 08 uses the iTunes scroll bars so we can pretty much bet all of 10.5 will use them also.

I see the iTunes scrollbar on iMovie and iPhoto, but not iWeb or GarageBand. And GarageBand still has those pointless "wooden bookends."

analogika · Aug 7, 2007, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

And GarageBand still has those pointless "wooden bookends."

I actually don't mind that at all. It's in the tradition of classic studio hardware.

analogue SPRINKLES · Aug 8, 2007, 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

I actually don't mind that at all. It's in the tradition of classic studio hardware.

Ya I really like em also.

mattnxtc · Aug 9, 2007, 01:47 PM

any date on the release of leopard?

PaperNotes · Aug 9, 2007, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by mattnxtc

any date on the release of leopard?

Oct 25 I hear from devs.

Peter · Aug 9, 2007, 02:47 PM

Anyone played with OS X Server?
Hows time machine?
Network backups? Can clients navigate Time Machine for AFP volumes? Can I restore clients straight off Time Machine?

mattnxtc · Aug 9, 2007, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by PaperNotes

Oct 25 I hear from devs.

Would be nice...I would be able to make my first Apple computer purchase if that is the case.

Chuckit · Aug 9, 2007, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by PaperNotes

Oct 25 I hear from devs.

It won't be more than a week later than that, at least.

PaperNotes · Aug 12, 2007, 02:15 PM

There's a nod to The Beatles in Leopard. The resource image for the Dock's crosswalk is called abbeyroad.png

vtboyarc · Aug 13, 2007, 08:08 PM

when do you think leopard will be released? early or late october?

0157988944 · Aug 13, 2007, 08:10 PM

2 posts up, it says "Oct 25"

vtboyarc · Aug 13, 2007, 09:03 PM

oh good, i'm waiting to buy a mb when it comes out. i hope it doesn't make the price go up though

0157988944 · Aug 13, 2007, 09:48 PM

Leopard won't make the price go up, although the price may change...

vtboyarc · Aug 13, 2007, 11:05 PM

change which way?

brokenjago · Aug 13, 2007, 11:21 PM

Leopard won't make the price go up, although the price may change...

I highly doubt that.

0157988944 · Aug 13, 2007, 11:30 PM

yeah, the only way I see the price changing is getting cheaper, maybe the MacBook 2 GHz being $999, but I doubt it.

vtboyarc · Aug 13, 2007, 11:46 PM

will leopard ship on all new macs as soon as it is released, or will they still have tiger, and we have to upgrade ourselves?

Chuckit · Aug 14, 2007, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by vtboyarc

change which way?

How many directions can a price go that aren't up?

0157988944 · Aug 14, 2007, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by vtboyarc

will leopard ship on all new macs as soon as it is released, or will they still have tiger, and we have to upgrade ourselves?

Leopard should ship with all Macs packaged after the Leopard release date.

Chuckit · Aug 14, 2007, 02:02 AM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

Leopard should ship with all Macs packaged after the Leopard release date.

And for Macs made before the release date but sold after, there's usually a free upgrade DVD.

TheoCryst · Aug 15, 2007, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

And for Macs made before the release date but sold after, there's usually a free upgrade DVD.

Just to clarify: free plus $10-20 shipping and handling.

Big Mac · Aug 15, 2007, 08:55 PM

Has everyone seen this page already?

0157988944 · Aug 15, 2007, 08:58 PM

August 17th!!! New Seed Soon?