[edified]

Anyone know if the new 20 inch (April 2008) iMacs (MB324LL/A) use dithering on their displays?

[CharlesS]

All but the 24" use TN panels, as I understand it.

[mduell]

The 20" iMac uses a 6-bit TN panel with temporal dithering; 98% fewer colors than the 24" iMac or Cinema Displays before dithering.

[99RedSi]

So the 24" iMac uses the same high-quality panel as the Cinema Display?? Or one step below it ? Or... ?

[CharlesS]

The Cinema Displays use S-IPS panels, basically the highest quality panels available. I'm not sure exactly what the 24" iMac is using, but it's probably either an S-PVA or an S-IPS. Either one of those two is fine, IMO.

[99RedSi]

Did the previous 24" iMacs (down to the "first gen" of the 24") use either S-IPS or S-PVA panels? Or *only* the most recent ones?

Just making sure in case I go the refurb route on the 24"... or eBay, etc.

[CharlesS]

My iMac G5 20", back when 20" was still the high-end model, had an S-PVA panel. So Apple has a history of using S-PVA, at least. That was, of course, three years ago - you'd have to ask someone who has a more recent model what they've been doing these days. I'd put my money on them using S-PVA, though, because S-IPS panels are really expensive.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by 99RedSi 

So the 24" iMac uses the same high-quality panel as the Cinema Display?? Or one step below it ? Or... ?

The 24" iMac uses a H-IPS panel; it's similar to the S-IPS panel used in the Cinema Displays with a slightly different set of tradeoffs.

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

The Cinema Displays use S-IPS panels, basically the highest quality panels available.

I disagree with your assertion that any panel type is higher or highest quality compared to other panel types. They all have different non-cost tradeoffs and are appropriate for different applications.

Originally Posted by 99RedSi 

Did the previous 24" iMacs (down to the "first gen" of the 24") use either S-IPS or S-PVA panels? Or *only* the most recent ones?

Just making sure in case I go the refurb route on the 24"... or eBay, etc.

I think they're S-PVA or H-IPS.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by mduell 

I disagree with your assertion that any panel type is higher or highest quality compared to other panel types. They all have different non-cost tradeoffs and are appropriate for different applications.

That's true, I guess - IPS panels are not as fast as TNs, so there's one drawback. What I should have said was that S-IPS panels are considered the highest-quality available, which I think is a pretty safe statement to make (and which is also reflected in the price). They also have the highest color accuracy (although S-PVAs are good too - I didn't have too many complaints about my iMac G5's display, but then again I'm color-blind and might not be so good at noticing the little details). They certainly are more color-accurate than TN panels - even I with my color-blind eyes can tell the difference easily.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

That's true, I guess - IPS panels are not as fast as TNs, so there's one drawback. What I should have said was that S-IPS panels are considered the highest-quality available, which I think is a pretty safe statement to make (and which is also reflected in the price). They also have the highest color accuracy (although S-PVAs are good too - I didn't have too many complaints about my iMac G5's display, but then again I'm color-blind and might not be so good at noticing the little details). They certainly are more color-accurate than TN panels - even I with my color-blind eyes can tell the difference easily.

IPS panels have plenty of other drawbacks than response time (slower than TN, faster than PVA) and color gamut (better than TN, worse than PVA).
S-IPS are one of the worst (of the types currently in production) for backlight bleed, have a purple tint from an angle, and the panel surface appears noisy or glittery (regardless of glossy or matte). H-IPS improves on those, but still have backlight bleed in green areas and narrower viewing angles, as well as high cost.
There is no general "highest quality" panel; pick the right panel type for your application.

[voodoo]

It honestly doesn't matter what type of LCD is under the glossy screen.

[mduell]

Yes, it absolutely does.

[Chinasaur]

Soo...after reading this thread..

Is it "only" the new 20" iMac's that have dithered screens? Or all of them?

TIA.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Chinasaur 

Soo...after reading this thread..

Is it "only" the new 20" iMac's that have dithered screens? Or all of them?

Only the latest 20" Aluminum iMacs (and all G4/Intel Mac laptops if your question is broader than just iMacs) have 6-bit dithered screens.

[Betox]

In short, which one is better?

[kmkkid]

Well i just received my 3 Ghz iMac yesterday....

It has the gradient problem.


I called Applecare, and they said they will exchange it and wrote in the notes that I want a technician to verify the screen is even and has no gradient.


Do you guys believe they will really check before they send me a new one? or just send one without any other thought?

The guy was really nice on the phone and gave me his personal number, and said he would assure I got a perfect machine.

Is it all just jargon, or will Apple really come through?

I mean i spent $2600 on this, I deserve perfect. Especially after my first gen Intel iMac has crapped out with the graphics corruption/freezing that Apple still hasn't admitted is a widespread problem.


Any thoughts?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Betox 

In short, which one is better?

Depends on your usage.

Originally Posted by kmkkid 

I called Applecare, and they said they will exchange it and wrote in the notes that I want a technician to verify the screen is even and has no gradient.

Do you guys believe they will really check before they send me a new one? or just send one without any other thought?

No; just another uninspected box from the factory/warehouse to you.

Originally Posted by kmkkid 

I mean i spent $2600 on this, I deserve perfect.

What does spending $2600 have to do with deserving perfect? You're paying for high-performance mobile chips and a sleek enclosure.

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Depends on your usage.



No; just another uninspected box from the factory/warehouse to you.



What does spending $2600 have to do with deserving perfect? You're paying for high-performance mobile chips and a sleek enclosure.

Hmmm, the fact that I deserve a screen without colour shifts and backlight bleeding, when almost all other LCDs sold are of better quailty for less price? It's a sad day indeed when my 2006 iMac has remarkably better evenness than that of my brand new 2008 iMac. Too bad it's down the shitter with a completely different set of display problems.


To follow up, I got an email from apple support, and I went further into the details of my dilemma with them.
Hopefully I get a response.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by kmkkid 

Hmmm, the fact that I deserve a screen without colour shifts and backlight bleeding, when almost all other LCDs sold are of better quailty for less price? It's a sad day indeed when my 2006 iMac has remarkably better evenness than that of my brand new 2008 iMac. Too bad it's down the shitter with a completely different set of display problems.

You're asking for an LCD without characteristics that are inherent to the LCD panels Apple uses (color shifts for TN panels and backlight bleed for IPS panels)... it sounds like you want a PVA based iMac, which Apple doesn't sell.

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by mduell 

You're asking for an LCD without characteristics that are inherent to the LCD panels Apple uses (color shifts for TN panels and backlight bleed for IPS panels)... it sounds like you want a PVA based iMac, which Apple doesn't sell.

I have colour shifts AND backlight bleed in my 24" IPS panel. I could tolerate backlight bleed.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Betox 

In short, which one is better?

Between the iMacs - the 24" display is MUCH better; the two 20" ones are identical.

If that wasn't what you were asking, you've already got your answer; I just wanted to make that explicit for the record.