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Police discrimination, misconduct, Ferguson, MO, the Roman Legion, and now math??? (Page 23)
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Chongo
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Dec 5, 2014, 03:50 PM
 
     
OAW
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Dec 5, 2014, 04:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Still silent on the black on black violence OAW? In denial?
Seriously dude. I've already addressed that "argument" more than once in this thread. A few times in direct response to you. You never offer an actual counter-point. No rebuttal to what I and several others have shown to be a false equivalency. All you do is go dark for a while and then come back later to repeat the same old tired deflection.

If the topic of the thread was about how banks charge higher mortgage interest rates to black customers than whites even with identical incomes and credit scores ... you would be yelling about "Yeah but what about 'black on black' violence?"

If the topic of the thread were the fact that there is a 10-1 disparity in the arrest rate of blacks vs whites for marijuana possession even though the % of each group that indulges is roughly equal ...






.... you would be yelling about "Yeah but what about 'black on black' violence?"

If the topic of the thread was about racial disparities in school discipline and I cited an academic study that said ...

Lowered expectations in the classroom may result in differential treatment for students of color, including less praise and more disciplinary action from teachers. Research suggests that when given an opportunity to choose among several disciplinary options for a relatively minor offense, teachers and school administrators often choose more severe punishment for Black students than for White students for the SAME OFFENSE. For example, in the 2008-2009 academic year, Black students in North Carolina public schools were suspended at rates significantly higher than White students: eight times higher for cell phone use, six times higher for dress code violation, two times higher for disruptive behavior, and 10 times higher for displays of affection. (Losen, 2010).
Racial Disproportionality in School Discipline: Implicit Bias is Heavily Implicated

... you would be yelling about "Yeah but what about 'black on black' violence?" :err

The issue here is two-fold ....

1. You persist in trying to make this an "Either-Or" conversation when the reality is it's a "Both-And" conversation.

2. You really don't care about systemic, pervasive, and culturally ingrained racial disparities throughout American society that have existed in one form or another since the genesis of this great nation. You'd rather simply dismiss it outright as some sort of mass hallucination on the part of black people. Or that it's some sort of figment of our collective imagination because we've just been "duped" by Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Barack Obama about what the "real issues" are. Or ... you guessed it ... simply yelling about "Yeah but what about 'black on black' violence?"

The minute you post anything even remotely substantive about #1 I'd be more than happy to engage you in that conversation. But it's blatantly obvious that your mentality is firmly rooted in #2. And as far as that is concerned I'd actually have more respect for your commentary if you just came out and said "I really don't give two sh*ts!" and called it a day. Because this pretense that you and some others around here have any sort of genuine concern about "black on black violence" rings extremely hollow. Because it only seems to manifest whenever someone white is on the hot seat.

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Dec 5, 2014 at 05:38 PM. )
     
OAW
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Dec 5, 2014, 04:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
How about Church on Sunday?
Did you really just say that? Apparently you don't realize African-Americans have the highest rates of church attendance of any ethnic group.



OAW
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Dec 5, 2014, 04:31 PM
 
Jesus Christ, it's about snow.
     
OAW
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Dec 5, 2014, 05:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
So nothing about "two or more Class A, B, OR C felonies", and I can't find where she ever said that. The fact is, it's based on their own discretion, or "unless a petition or motion to modify is sustained which charges the child with an offense which, if committed by an adult, would be a class A felony under the criminal code of Missouri". So they're sitting on the records.
This has become more than tiresome. So I'll just leave it at this. I already made it clear that was the REPORTER's characterization of Ms. Harcourt's statements to the press. You want to hang your hat on it not being a "direct quote" .... then knock yourself out! We'll just note that you continue to harp on this minutiae while completely ignoring the larger point. I answered your challenge ....

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I show you the actual law and the link to it yet you refuse to even accept it. Typical for you.
... and replied with a detailed analysis of the actual law ... including the portions you conveniently omitted ... which demonstrated how the disposition hearing records for ANY juvenile felony convictions are open to the public. Your response?

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
*blurp, blurp, whoosh*
As you have done REPEATEDLY in this thread. So clearly you have no interest in substantive debate. And we'll also note that you have STILL to provide any evidence whatsoever for this:

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
He was arrested, charged, but not convicted of a felony, he apparently was allowed to plead out to misdemeanor offenses. If he'd been punished appropriately for his actions he'd still be in jail and probably be alive today.
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
[Mike Brown] "was charged with numerous violent crimes"
Which is what started this entire tangent! And so despite all your diversionary tactics you STILL remain completely full of sh*t.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
You're always reaching, and always somehow manage to say less while tying more. That's amazing. It says Ms Harcourt "argued against releasing those records, but acknowledged that there were no convictions or active cases for the most serious types of felonies”. If you choose to believe that means there aren't any records, then suit yourself.
Funny how the REPORTER'S characterization and not a direct quote is sufficient for you in this instance.

I'll repeat what the NY Times article said for a THIRD time so you can continue to demonstrate what David Frum noted was the "unique capacity to ignore unwelcome fact" among some on the right.

Originally Posted by NY Times
Cynthia Harcourt, a lawyer for the juvenile officer of St. Louis County Family Court, said after the hearing that she could neither confirm nor deny the existence of a juvenile record for Mr. Brown.
The reporter is describing an actual conversation with the woman herself! And this is in the context of what was stated earlier in the same article:

Originally Posted by NY Times
The details came at a county court hearing over a petition by The St. Louis Post-Dispatch and another news outlet to unseal any juvenile court records that MIGHT exist for Mr. Brown. The authorities have said Mr. Brown, 18, had no adult criminal record, and his relatives have told reporters he did not have one as a juvenile, either.
It didn't say "EXISTING records" or "records that DID exist". It said "records that MIGHT exist". Again ... can you read?

Moreover, the STL Post Dispatch was a participant in the hearing. If the STL Post Dispatch legal team was IN THE HEARING with Ms. Harcourt and they had direct knowledge of the existence ... not the CONTENTS ... but at a minimum the very EXISTENCE of any juvenile records why on earth would that SAME news organization report this???

Originally Posted by STL Post Dispatch
"It is not known whether Brown had ever been accused of lesser offenses."


OAW
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Dec 5, 2014, 06:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
This has become more than tiresome. So I'll just leave it at this. I already made it clear that was the REPORTER's characterization of Ms. Harcourt's statements to the press. You want to hang your hat on it not being a "direct quote" .... then knock yourself out! We'll just note that you continue to harp on this minutiae while completely ignoring the larger point. I answered your challenge ....
Of course it's tiresome, because you can't back it up and you're attributing comments to her that she never made and aren't even part of MO law. FFS. Admit that you made it up and move on.

... and replied with a detailed analysis of the actual law ... including the portions you conveniently omitted ... which demonstrated how the disposition hearing records for ANY juvenile felony convictions are open to the public. Your response?
No they aren't, as the law says, they must be unsealed first and that will only happen if the court deems the situation necessary "we won't open them just for curiosity's sake" or if there are modifications needed to be done to the documents.

As you have done REPEATEDLY in this thread. So clearly you have no interest in substantive debate. And we'll also note that you have STILL to provide any evidence whatsoever for this:
If you could write a substantive reply that doesn't logically run around in circles, I would. You bury a thread in a wikipedia article's worth of BS and then expect thoughtful replies and I won't do that.

Which is what started this entire tangent! And so despite all your diversionary tactics you STILL remain completely full of sh*t.
Like your supposed quote from Ms Harcourt, or your repeated mischaracterizations regarding Missouri law? You need to check yourself for shit rather than point at anyone else, because as I've said numerous times before, you'll say anything to push what you believe.

Funny how the REPORTER'S characterization and not a direct quote is sufficient for you in this instance.
Like your acceptance of Jeremy Kohler's supposed characterizations of Hargrave? Really?

I'll repeat what the NY Times article said for a THIRD time so you can continue to demonstrate what David Frum noted was the "unique capacity to ignore unwelcome fact" among some on the right.
You live in denial, avoiding any "unwelcome facts" regarding the black community because it's much more convenient to ignore those faults and point fingers at anyone and everyone else. Of course there are issues with cops, they're scared, no person can witness so many murders and not be affected. Being afraid of anxious, trigger happy cops is a much lesser concern however, because the #1 cause of death for black males 15-34 is murder, by other black males.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
OAW
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Dec 5, 2014, 07:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Of course it's tiresome, because you can't back it up and you're attributing comments to her that she never made and aren't even part of MO law. FFS. Admit that you made it up and move on.
Yeah ok ....

Originally Posted by STL Post Dispatch
It is not known whether Brown had ever been accused of lesser offenses. Class C felonies, for example, which include involuntary manslaughter and second-degree assault, would become open only if there were two previous adjudications for class A, B or C felonies. That was not the case with Brown.
"Made it up"? Really? Please continue to act like you don't see what's right there in front of you in black and white. Again, if you have an issue with it take it up with the STL Post Dispatch reporter.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
No they aren't, as the law says, they must be unsealed first and that will only happen if the court deems the situation necessary "we won't open them just for curiosity's sake" or if there are modifications needed to be done to the documents.
As I said earlier ... the meaning of the word "OR" simply eludes you. As does this bit of simple English it would seem:

In all proceedings under subdivision (3) of subsection 1 of section 211.031 the records of the juvenile court as well as all information obtained and social records prepared in the discharge of official duty for the court shall be kept confidential and may be open to inspection WITHOUT COURT ORDER only as follows:
(2) After a child has been ADJUDICATED DELINQUENT pursuant to subdivision (3) of subsection 1 of section 211.031, for an offense which would be A FELONY if committed by an adult, the RECORDS OF THE DISPOSITIONAL HEARING and proceedings related thereto shall be OPEN TO THE PUBLIC to the same extent that records of criminal proceedings are open to the public.
Do you see that part that says WITHOUT A COURT ORDER? We all know you do. So please continue to pretend like you don't see what's right there in your face.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
If you could write a substantive reply that doesn't logically run around in circles, I would. You bury a thread in a wikipedia article's worth of BS and then expect thoughtful replies and I won't do that.
This from the dude who's entire repertoire consists of ....

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
How can you debunk something when all you spread is bunk? Everything you say is distorted, it's absolutely absurd.
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
*a bunch of half truths and BS from Mother Jones' talking points*
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
There's no lesson there, just more of your distortions. You really can't see how "doesn't have a felony record" and "was charged with numerous violent crimes" can both be true, can you?
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
*blah, blah, blah, distorting everything and making BS up, as usual*
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
*more manipulation, distortion, and misrepresentation of what was said.*
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I refuse to take your BS comments seriously anymore, they're filled with so many half-truths, manipulations, and outright lies that it makes it impossible.
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
*blurp, blurp, whoosh*
The special school district should be so proud.

And one last reminder because no one has forgotten. You STILL have not produced a scintilla of EVIDENCE to support what started this entire dispute ....

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
He was arrested, charged, but not convicted of a felony, he apparently was allowed to plead out to misdemeanor offenses. If he'd been punished appropriately for his actions he'd still be in jail and probably be alive today.
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
[Mike Brown] "was charged with numerous violent crimes"
So it's not that you WON'T produce a "substantive reply". It's not that you WON'T produce the evidence for this RANK SPECULATION that you stated as FACT. The issue is that you CAN'T! You are INCAPABLE of doing so because if you could have you would have. If for no other reason than to rub my nose in it. And thus you remain completely full of sh*t.

DISMISSED!

OAW
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Dec 6, 2014, 01:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Yeah ok ....

"Made it up"? Really? Please continue to act like you don't see what's right there in front of you in black and white. Again, if you have an issue with it take it up with the STL Post Dispatch reporter.
Nice link. "That's in the paper!"

So it's not that you WON'T produce a "substantive reply". It's not that you WON'T produce the evidence for this RANK SPECULATION that you stated as FACT. The issue is that you CAN'T! You are INCAPABLE of doing so because if you could have you would have. If for no other reason than to rub my nose in it. And thus you remain completely full of sh*t.

DISMISSED!
Pathetic. Dismissed? I've figured you out, like the leaders of the black community; Sharpton and Farrakhan, you're a saprophyte. You get what you need, your "nourishment", from the dead and dying. You don't care how many blacks die, just how. Black youths can kill each other by the 1000s and it doesn't even blip for you, but a cop gets scared and overzealous, due to what they experience in black neighborhoods, and it's time to march, demonstrate, and burn. The #1 cause of death for black males <35 is murder, by their own neighbors. Your leaders built that, you follow it, and those young men pay for it. No, Mike Brown wasn't a saint, he was a bully and another "gangsta" in training, but that ultimately didn't kill him, it was the attitude from people like you, that he and everyone like him is alright, *the chorus chimes in* it's someone else's fault!

You've passed the buck so many times looking for others to blame that you don't even care that every year there are more black boys murdered than earn PhDs, 13 y/o single moms give up raising their kids and let the streets and your toxic urban subculture do it for them. And no, they aren't fine, they aren't alright, and it's your ideology and apathy that's doing it to them, it's a disease. There's no political clout in blaming your own leadership, is there? No fundraising dollars to be made. A man who died by cop fills the collection plate and gets the TV views, but a dozen dead gang members simply throws a microscope on them and you. Hell, I can't even find a fu*king short article on the dead gang members, who they were, what were the circumstances of their deaths, just the obituaries. The news doesn't cover them, the Rever-und Jack-son doesn't fly out to do their funerals, hug their moms on camera.

Fess up. They don't matter to your leaders, or to you, do they? Cry me a river of indignation, build a memorial for Mike Brown, but the numbers speak for themselves; in inner cities, 1 out of a 1000 young black men will be murdered this year, nearly all by their peers (not the police).


*throws the mic, bouncing it off OAW's shit-filled head*
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Chongo
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Dec 6, 2014, 06:32 AM
 
The #1 cause of death for Black Americans is abortion.

In the top ten states that report their abortion statistics to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the numbers show that 60.48% of the babies killed in those states were black and Hispanic, a total of 201,744 abortions out of 333,560.
However, the data also show that in those areas blacks comprised an average 17.18% of the population and Hispanics, 11.56%. In other words, 60% of the abortions there came from a combined 28.74% of the population: black and Hispanic women.
Abortion Surveillance — United States, 2011
( Last edited by Chongo; Dec 6, 2014 at 06:45 AM. )
     
Chongo
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Dec 6, 2014, 06:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Did you really just say that? Apparently you don't realize African-Americans have the highest rates of church attendance of any ethnic group.



OAW
It's safe to say the kids that get into the most serious trouble are amoung the 30% that don't attend Church.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Dec 6, 2014, 10:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
The #1 cause of death for Black Americans is abortion.


Abortion Surveillance — United States, 2011


You... you really aren't helping.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Chongo
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Dec 6, 2014, 11:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post


You... you really aren't helping.
More AA's die at the hands of Planned Parenthood than the police.
     
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Dec 6, 2014, 11:39 AM
 
Confessions of a Public Defender
Michael Smith, American Renaissance, May 9, 2014

Still liberal after all these years.

I am a public defender in a large southern metropolitan area. Fewer than ten percent of the people in the area I serve are black but over 90 per cent of my clients are black. The remaining ten percent are mainly Hispanics but there are a few whites.

I have no explanation for why this is, but crime has racial patterns. Hispanics usually commit two kinds of crime: sexual assault on children and driving under the influence. Blacks commit many violent crimes but very few sex crimes. The handful of whites I see commit all kinds of crimes. In my many years as a public defender I have represented only three Asians, and one was half black.

As a young lawyer, I believed the official story that blacks are law abiding, intelligent, family-oriented people, but are so poor they must turn to crime to survive. Actual black behavior was a shock to me.

The media invariably sugarcoat black behavior. Even the news reports of the very crimes I dealt with in court were slanted. Television news intentionally leaves out unflattering facts about the accused, and sometimes omits names that are obviously black. All this rocked my liberal, tolerant beliefs, but it took me years to set aside my illusions and accept the reality of what I see every day. I have now served thousands of blacks and their families, protecting their rights and defending them in court. What follow are my observations.

Although blacks are only a small percentage of our community, the courthouse is filled with them: the halls and gallery benches are overflowing with black defendants, families, and crime victims. Most whites with business in court arrive quietly, dress appropriately, and keep their heads down. They get in and get out–if they can–as fast as they can. For blacks, the courthouse is like a carnival. They all seem to know each other: hundreds and hundreds each day, gossiping, laughing loudly, waving, and crowding the halls.

When I am appointed to represent a client I introduce myself and explain that I am his lawyer. I explain the court process and my role in it, and I ask the client some basic questions about himself. At this stage, I can tell with great accuracy how people will react. Hispanics are extremely polite and deferential. An Hispanic will never call me by my first name and will answer my questions directly and with appropriate respect for my position. Whites are similarly respectful.

A black man will never call me Mr. Smith; I am always “Mike.” It is not unusual for a 19-year-old black to refer to me as “dog.” A black may mumble complaints about everything I say, and roll his eyes when I politely interrupt so I can continue with my explanation. Also, everything I say to blacks must be at about the third-grade level. If I slip and use adult language, they get angry because they think I am flaunting my superiority.

At the early stages of a case, I explain the process to my clients. I often do not yet have the information in the police reports. Blacks are unable to understand that I do not yet have answers to all of their questions, but that I will by a certain date. They live in the here and the now and are unable to wait for anything. Usually, by the second meeting with the client I have most of the police reports and understand their case.


Unlike people of other races, blacks never see their lawyer as someone who is there to help them. I am a part of the system against which they are waging war. They often explode with anger at me and are quick to blame me for anything that goes wrong in their case.

Black men often try to trip me up and challenge my knowledge of the law or the facts of the case. I appreciate sincere questions about the elements of the offense or the sentencing guidelines, but blacks ask questions to test me. Unfortunately, they are almost always wrong in their reading, or understanding, of the law, and this can cause friction. I may repeatedly explain the law, and provide copies of the statute showing, for example, why my client must serve six years if convicted, but he continues to believe that a hand-written note from his “cellie” is controlling law.

The risks of trial

The Constitution allows a defendant to make three crucial decisions in his case. He decides whether to plea guilty or not guilty. He decides whether to have a bench trial or a jury trial. He decides whether he will testify or whether he will remain silent. A client who insists on testifying is almost always making a terrible mistake, but I cannot stop him.

Most blacks are unable to speak English well. They cannot conjugate verbs. They have a poor grasp of verb tenses. They have a limited vocabulary. They cannot speak without swearing. They often become hostile on the stand. Many, when they testify, show a complete lack of empathy and are unable to conceal a morality based on the satisfaction of immediate, base needs. This is a disaster, especially in a jury trial. Most jurors are white, and are appalled by the demeanor of uneducated, criminal blacks.

Prosecutors are delighted when a black defendant takes the stand. It is like shooting fish in a barrel. However, the defense usually gets to cross-examine the black victim, who is likely to make just as bad an impression on the stand as the defendant. This is an invaluable gift to the defense, because jurors may not convict a defendant—even if they think he is guilty—if they dislike the victim even more than they dislike the defendant.
Black witnesses can also sway the jury.


Most criminal cases do not go to trial. Often the evidence against the accused is overwhelming, and the chances of conviction are high. The defendant is better off with a plea bargain: pleading guilty to a lesser charge and getting a lighter sentence.

The decision to plea to a lesser charge turns on the strength of the evidence. When blacks ask the ultimate question—”Will we win at trial?”—I tell them I cannot know, but I then describe the strengths and weaknesses of our case. The weaknesses are usually obvious: There are five eyewitnesses against you. Or, you made a confession to both the detective and your grandmother. They found you in possession of a pink cell phone with a case that has rhinestones spelling the name of the victim of the robbery. There is a video of the murderer wearing the same shirt you were wearing when you were arrested, which has the words “In Da Houz” on the back, not to mention you have the same “RIP Pookie 7/4/12” tattoo on your neck as the man in the video. Etc.

If you tell a black man that the evidence is very harmful to his case, he will blame you. “You ain’t workin’ fo’ me.” “It like you workin’ with da State.” Every public defender hears this. The more you try to explain the evidence to a black man, the angrier he gets. It is my firm belief many black are unable to discuss the evidence against them rationally because they cannot view things from the perspective of others. They simply cannot understand how the facts in the case will appear to a jury.


This inability to see things from someone else’s perspective helps explain why there are so many black criminals. They do not understand the pain they are inflicting on others. One of my robbery clients is a good example. He and two co-defendants walked into a small store run by two young women. All three men were wearing masks. They drew handguns and ordered the women into a back room. One man beat a girl with his gun. The second man stood over the second girl while the third man emptied the cash register. All of this was on video.

My client was the one who beat the girl. When he asked me, “What are our chances at trial?” I said, “Not so good.” He immediately got angry, raised his voice, and accused me of working with the prosecution. I asked him how he thought a jury would react to the video. “They don’t care,” he said. I told him the jury would probably feel deeply sympathetic towards these two women and would be angry at him because of how he treated them. I asked him whether he felt bad for the women he had beaten and terrorized. He told me what I suspected—what too many blacks say about the suffering of others: “What do I care? She ain’t me. She ain’t kin. Don’t even know her.”

No fathers

As a public defender, I have learned many things about people. One is that defendants do not have fathers. If a black even knows the name of his father, he knows of him only as a shadowy person with whom he has absolutely no ties. When a client is sentenced, I often beg for mercy on the grounds that the defendant did not have a father and never had a chance in life. I have often tracked down the man’s father–in jail–and have brought him to the sentencing hearing to testify that he never knew his son and never lifted a finger to help him. Often, this is the first time my client has ever met his father. These meetings are utterly unemotional.

Many black defendants don’t even have mothers who care about them. Many are raised by grandmothers after the state removes the children from an incompetent teenaged mother. Many of these mothers and grandmothers are mentally unstable, and are completely disconnected from the realities they face in court and in life. A 47-year-old grandmother will deny that her grandson has gang ties even though his forehead is tattooed with a gang sign or slogan. When I point this out in as kind and understanding way as I can, she screams at me. When black women start screaming, they invoke the name of Jesus and shout swear words in the same breath.

Black women have great faith in God, but they have a twisted understanding of His role. They do not pray for strength or courage. They pray for results: the satisfaction of immediate needs. One of my clients was a black woman who prayed in a circle with her accomplices for God’s protection from the police before they would set out to commit a robbery.

The mothers and grandmothers pray in the hallways–not for justice, but for acquittal. When I explain that the evidence that their beloved child murdered the shop keeper is overwhelming, and that he should accept the very fair plea bargain I have negotiated, they will tell me that he is going to trial and will “ride with the Lord.” They tell me they speak to God every day and He assures them that the young man will be acquitted.

The mothers and grandmothers do not seem to be able to imagine and understand the consequences of going to trial and losing. Some–and this is a shocking reality it took me a long time to grasp–don’t really care what happens to the client, but want to make it look as though they care. This means pounding their chests in righteous indignation, and insisting on going to trial despite terrible evidence. They refuse to listen to the one person–me–who has the knowledge to make the best recommendation. These people soon lose interest in the case, and stop showing up after about the third or fourth court date. It is then easier for me to convince the client to act in his own best interests and accept a plea agreement.

Part of the problem is that underclass black women begin having babies at age 15. They continue to have babies, with different black men, until they have had five or six. These women do not go to school. They do not work. They are not ashamed to live on public money. They plan their entire lives around the expectation that they will always get free money and never have to work. I do not see this among whites, Hispanics, or any other people.

The black men who become my clients also do not work. They get social security disability payments for a mental defect or for a vague and invisible physical ailment. They do not pay for anything: not for housing (Grandma lives on welfare and he lives with her), not for food (Grandma and the baby-momma share with him), and not for child support. When I learn that my 19-year-old defendant does not work or go to school, I ask, “What do you do all day?” He smiles. “You know, just chill.” These men live in a culture with no expectations, no demands, and no shame.

If you tell a black to dress properly for trial, and don’t give specific instructions, he will arrive in wildly inappropriate clothes. I represented a woman who was on trial for drugs; she wore a baseball cap with a marijuana leaf embroidered on it. I represented a man who wore a shirt that read “rules are for suckers” to his probation hearing. Our office provides suits, shirts, ties, and dresses for clients to wear for jury trials. Often, it takes a whole team of lawyers to persuade a black to wear a shirt and tie instead of gang colors.

From time to time the media report that although blacks are 12 percent of the population they are 40 percent of the prison population. This is supposed to be an outrage that results from unfair treatment by the criminal justice system. What the media only hint at is another staggering reality: recidivism. Black men are arrested and convicted over and over. It is typical for a black man to have five felony convictions before the age of 30. This kind of record is rare among whites and Hispanics, and probably even rarer among Asians.


Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics.

At one time our office was looking for a motto that defined our philosophy. Someone joked that it should be: “Doesn’t everyone deserve an eleventh chance?”

I am a liberal. I believe that those of us who are able to produce abundance have a moral duty to provide basic food, shelter, and medical care for those who cannot care for themselves. I believe we have this duty even to those who can care for themselves but don’t. This world view requires compassion and a willingness to act on it.

My experience has taught me that we live in a nation in which a jury is more likely to convict a black defendant who has committed a crime against a white. Even the dullest of blacks know this. There would be a lot more black-on-white crime if this were not the case.

However, my experience has also taught me that blacks are different by almost any measure to all other people. They cannot reason as well. They cannot communicate as well. They cannot control their impulses as well. They are a threat to all who cross their paths, black and non-black alike.

I do not know the solution to this problem. I do know that it is wrong to deceive the public. Whatever solutions we seek should be based on the truth rather than what we would prefer was the truth. As for myself, I will continue do my duty to protect the rights of all who need me.
Aut Caesar aut nihil.
     
OAW
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Dec 6, 2014, 02:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Pathetic. Dismissed? I've figured you out, like the leaders of the black community; Sharpton and Farrakhan, you're a saprophyte. You get what you need, your "nourishment", from the dead and dying. You don't care how many blacks die, just how. Black youths can kill each other by the 1000s and it doesn't even blip for you, but a cop gets scared and overzealous, due to what they experience in black neighborhoods, and it's time to march, demonstrate, and burn. The #1 cause of death for black males <35 is murder, by their own neighbors.


You know study after study shows this to be the case ...

Three quarters of whites don’t have any non-white friends - The Washington Post

And I'm not going to bother quoting the relevant excerpts because you clearly aren't bright enough to comprehend the detail. Suffice it to say that the gist of it is most white people are UTTERLY CLUELESS about black people because they really don't know anything about black people other than what they see on TV and movies. And those with the most distorted view ... yet completely convinced of their "expertise" ... is the Fox News crowd.

With that in mind ... you don't know me, my background, the work I do in my community, let alone ANYTHING regarding my concern about the violence in these streets. Yet you continue to demonstrate yourself to be our "Resident Forum Internet Expert" who has now deluded himself into thinking he is some sort of "authority" on black people in general and OAW in particular.

I will remind you that the topic of THIS particular thread is "POLICE Discrimination & Misconduct - Ferguson, MO and beyond". A topic you apparently have little interest in discussing given your repeated attempts to derail the thread with tangential subjects. I have neither the time nor the inclination to provide any further energy to your derailment efforts. So if you or anyone else wishes to discuss "black on black violence" or related topics I suggest you start a separate thread on the subject. Trust me. I won't duck it.



OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Dec 6, 2014 at 02:59 PM. )
     
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Dec 6, 2014, 05:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post



You know study after study shows this to be the case ...

Three quarters of whites don’t have any non-white friends - The Washington Post

And I'm not going to bother quoting the relevant excerpts because you clearly aren't bright enough to comprehend the detail. Suffice it to say that the gist of it is most white people are UTTERLY CLUELESS about black people because they really don't know anything about black people other than what they see on TV and movies. And those with the most distorted view ... yet completely convinced of their "expertise" ... is the Fox News crowd.

With that in mind ... you don't know me, my background, the work I do in my community, let alone ANYTHING regarding my concern about the violence in these streets. Yet you continue to demonstrate yourself to be our "Resident Forum Internet Expert" who has now deluded himself into thinking he is some sort of "authority" on black people in general and OAW in particular.

I will remind you that the topic of THIS particular thread is "POLICE Discrimination & Misconduct - Ferguson, MO and beyond". A topic you apparently have little interest in discussing given your repeated attempts to derail the thread with tangential subjects. I have neither the time nor the inclination to provide any further energy to your derailment efforts. So if you or anyone else wishes to discuss "black on black violence" or related topics I suggest you start a separate thread on the subject. Trust me. I won't duck it.
Exactly what I expected, I could have written your reply for you. Nope, this is the right thread, it fits the subject perfectly. Why was Mike Brown shot? Well, it's time someone actually addressed the 5 ton elephant in the room; it's what he was taught, or rather not taught. When youth are undisciplined, violent, and lack basic empathy, that's what happens, and it's your fault. It's a genocide by degrees via parental and social neglect, due to apathy and self-centeredness. That's the legacy of modern black leadership, MLK Jr wouldn't even recognize the black community today, except by their skin color.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
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Dec 6, 2014, 08:11 PM
 
^^^

Which just proves you have no real interest in discussing the issue. Because if you did ... instead of wasting a post on CONTINUED DEFLECTION in this thread ... you would have used that time and energy on an OP in a new thread on that topic. The gauntlet was thrown down ... and you bitched up. Figured as much.

OAW
     
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Dec 6, 2014, 08:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
The #1 cause of death for Black Americans is abortion.


Abortion Surveillance — United States, 2011
There should be zero objections to that fact. Children born into families that cannot take care of them, are ill prepared to afford to raise them, or worse yet do not want them are simply more likely to become criminals.

http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levi...alized2001.pdf

Its unfortunate that religious conservatives have been successful on any level in restricting abortion laws in many states. Their lack of forethought into the long term consequences of their misplaced piety is going to hurt the nation and our economy. It is more troublesome that the social stigma of having a stable of children by multiple absentee fathers is non existent in the African American community. It trivializes the importance and responsibility of being a parent.

Barack Obama: Four more years of the Carter Presidency
     
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Dec 6, 2014, 08:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
There should be zero objections to that fact. Children born into families that cannot take care of them, are ill prepared to afford to raise them, or worse yet do not want them are simply more likely to become criminals.

http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levi...alized2001.pdf

Its unfortunate that religious conservatives have been successful on any level in restricting abortion laws in many states. Their lack of forethought into the long term consequences of their misplaced piety is going to hurt the nation and our economy. It is more troublesome that the social stigma of having a stable of children by multiple absentee fathers is non existent in the African American community. It trivializes the importance and responsibility of being a parent.
Sounds like Margret Sanger. So the cure is more abortion and perhaps forced sterilization?

you should find this interesting

( Last edited by Chongo; Dec 6, 2014 at 09:12 PM. )
     
Chongo
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Dec 6, 2014, 09:04 PM
 
wrong linked video
( Last edited by Chongo; Dec 7, 2014 at 11:51 AM. )
     
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Dec 7, 2014, 12:15 AM
 
And now a thread about POLICE BRUTALITY is getting multiple posts about ABORTION. I can't be the only one seeing a concerted effort to derail the actual TOPIC of the thread.

OAW
     
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Dec 7, 2014, 12:46 AM
 
OAW, I used to think that it was funny when Abe would get frustrated with you he'd call you OAWey...

I don't really understand why this is a partisan issue. Conservatives like freedom and stuff, yet they seem committed to trusting that these various police forces couldn't have had people on them that made split second choices colored by racial prejudice. Is my thinking straight here?

When was there last an issue that wasn't separated by political affiliation?
     
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Dec 7, 2014, 01:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
^^^

Which just proves you have no real interest in discussing the issue. Because if you did ... instead of wasting a post on CONTINUED DEFLECTION in this thread ... you would have used that time and energy on an OP in a new thread on that topic. The gauntlet was thrown down ... and you bitched up. Figured as much.
It's the shit wrong with the black community that's led to cops being harder and more militant on blacks, particularly in cities, it's the fire the smoke is coming from. All the violence, murder, theft, and narcotic abuse, with a general lack of responsibility and empathy (stemming from the total collapse of family structure), has led to this. Those neighborhoods and communities can't continue the way they are, it's social meltdown and chaos. The police are closest to the mayhem and they can witness it all for only so long before going off the rails, they're only human. None of their actions have occurred within a vacuum, no matter how you choose to spin it.

and yes, I find it comically (yet painfully) ironic that I'm being accused of deflection, when it's the black community, particularly the leadership, that has turned deflection and blame-shifting into a way of life. One that you gleefully embrace with open arms.
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but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
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Dec 7, 2014, 08:53 AM
 
Tightpants, why do you feel that the community that needs to be singled out is based on race rather than social class?

i would bet that you'll find thugs among the poor in any country, whatever their race might be.

The question is why there are so many poor black families in the US, and I think there is no simple answer to that, but that there factors at play that you could put in the category of "not their own doing".
     
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Dec 7, 2014, 11:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
And now a thread about POLICE BRUTALITY is getting multiple posts about ABORTION. I can't be the only one seeing a concerted effort to derail the actual TOPIC of the thread.

OAW
This will be the last post on this.

We hear the cries for Human Rights and that "Black Lives Matter"

When people are going to carry signs and t-shirts like these:


They need to remember this:

The inviolability of the person which is a reflection of the absolute inviolability of God, fínds its primary and fundamental expression in the inviolability of human life. Above all, the common outcry, which is justly made on behalf of human rights-for example, the right to health, to home, to work, to family, to culture- is false and illusory if the right to life, the most basic and fundamental right and the condition for all other personal rights, is not defended with maximum determination.
St. John Paul The Great, Christifideles Laici #38

When someone does offer a solution, this happens.


The annual CDC report shows that more Black lives end at the hands of Planned Parenthood than from police misconduct. Captain Obvious' linked PDF says that's a good thing.
     
Chongo
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Dec 7, 2014, 11:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
OAW, I used to think that it was funny when Abe would get frustrated with you he'd call you OAWey...

I don't really understand why this is a partisan issue. Conservatives like freedom and stuff, yet they seem committed to trusting that these various police forces couldn't have had people on them that made split second choices colored by racial prejudice. Is my thinking straight here?

When was there last an issue that wasn't separated by political affiliation?
Those few weeks after 9/11
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Dec 7, 2014, 11:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Tightpants, why do you feel that the community that needs to be singled out is based on race rather than social class?

i would bet that you'll find thugs among the poor in any country, whatever their race might be.

The question is why there are so many poor black families in the US, and I think there is no simple answer to that, but that there factors at play that you could put in the category of "not their own doing".
As I've already said, in terms of violence and criminality, poor whites are lightweights compared to poor urban blacks. It's the environment (which can be tied to poverty, but not always). The lack of committed parents, rules, and positive role models is more impactful than finances. We can sit and commiserate all day that most of it isn't their own doing, but at the end of it, we still have social meltdown in those areas, and that can't keep going on.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
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Dec 7, 2014, 12:04 PM
 
nvm
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nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
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Dec 7, 2014, 12:31 PM
 
And this good people is how in nearly all cases the fix is in when a DA takes a case about police brutality to the grand jury.

Staten Island DA Didn't Ask Garner Grand Jury to Consider Reckless Endangerment Charge: Source | NBC New York

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Dec 7, 2014 at 01:27 PM. )
     
OAW
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Dec 7, 2014, 01:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
It's the shit wrong with the black community that's led to cops being harder and more militant on blacks, particularly in cities, it's the fire the smoke is coming from. All the violence, murder, theft, and narcotic abuse, with a general lack of responsibility and empathy (stemming from the total collapse of family structure), has led to this.
Yeah I figured you would go down this road. The type of police brutality that is the ACTUAL TOPIC of this thread goes back a whole lot further than that. In black communities it goes back to the Reconstruction era! If you had any grasp of HISTORY at all you would know that the very same things being discussed TODAY in this thread were happening DECADES before the days of 70% of black children being born out of wedlock. So there goes your stupid ass theory.



Hence why you bitched up when challenged to discuss those particular issues in a separate thread where they belong. Because unlike you I know what the hell I'm talking about and can produce the facts and evidence to back it up. You OTOH only want to continue yakking with your tired little "Resident Forum Internet Expert" act. If I bet my next three paychecks that you probably haven't even had a meaningful conversation longer than 10 minutes with 10 different black people in your entire sorry ass existence I highly doubt I would lose a dime! Not to mention your repeated and quite frankly rather racist attempts to paint the ENTIRE "black community" with the broad brush of a particular SUB-CULTURE within it.

OAW
     
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Dec 7, 2014, 01:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
OAW, I used to think that it was funny when Abe would get frustrated with you he'd call you OAWey...
What was Abe's handle again? IIRC he went through several and I never invested the time or energy into trying to keep up with them.

Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I don't really understand why this is a partisan issue. Conservatives like freedom and stuff, yet they seem committed to trusting that these various police forces couldn't have had people on them that made split second choices colored by racial prejudice. Is my thinking straight here?
Your thinking is very straight. All that anti-government "jack booted thugs" rhetoric that gets used when white people are the targets suddenly goes right out the window when minorities are involved. Just saying ...

OAW
     
exca1ibur
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Dec 7, 2014, 01:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
This is the type of utter stupidity that black males have to deal with on a daily basis. Certainly not every individual black male every single day. But plenty of black males somewhere in this country routinely deal with this type of racist insanity day in and day out. :shake
OAW
Tell me about it. I've been held at gun point by 5 police cars in high school when I came out of a Safeway in a white neighborhood. Apparently a person inside the store called the police and said I stayed in too long and stole something. I was wearing a shirt and sweatpants with no pockets and nothing in my hand but keys.
     
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Dec 7, 2014, 01:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Hence why you bitched up when challenged to discuss those particular issues in a separate thread where they belong. Because unlike you I know what the hell I'm talking about and can produce the facts and evidence to back it up. You OTOH only want to continue yakking with your tired little "Resident Forum Internet Expert" act. If I bet my next three paychecks that you probably haven't even had a meaningful conversation longer than 10 minutes with 10 different black people in your entire sorry ass existence I highly doubt I would lose a dime! Not to mention your repeated and quite frankly rather racist attempts to paint the ENTIRE "black community" with the broad brush of a particular SUB-CULTURE within it.
You know, accusing me of racism while you use homophobic and misogynistic insults... At some point you may figure out that I don't care what you call me (or accuse me of), but I kinda doubt it. Your challenges mean nothing if I have no respect for your arguments, FYI.


(PS. If you'll turn off your rage for a second and actually re-read my previous posts on the matter, you'll see that it's not nearly so broad a brush as you want to believe. Not that I believe you can.)
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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Dec 7, 2014, 01:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Your thinking is very straight. All that anti-government "jack booted thugs" rhetoric that gets used when white people are the targets suddenly goes right out the window when minorities are involved. Just saying ...
Now this is a "broad brush".
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Dec 7, 2014, 01:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Your thinking is very straight. All that anti-government "jack booted thugs" rhetoric that gets used when white people are the targets suddenly goes right out the window when minorities are involved. Just saying ...

OAW
Like Ruby Ridge? The DOJ pulled "Soveriegn Immunity" when Boundry County tried to prosecute the sniper who killed Vickie Weaver as she held her child.
     
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Dec 7, 2014, 02:05 PM
 
@Cap'n Tightpants

This from the guy who repeatedly ignored what news articles reported about the lawyer for the STL Family Court saying she could neither confirm nor deny the existence of a juvenile record for Mike Brown. I have ZERO respect for such tactics because it's not even a semblance of an argument. The bottom line here is that when it comes to substantive debate ... you simply are beneath me.

OAW
     
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Dec 7, 2014, 02:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
As I've already said, in terms of violence and criminality, poor whites are lightweights compared to poor urban blacks. It's the environment (which can be tied to poverty, but not always). The lack of committed parents, rules, and positive role models is more impactful than finances. We can sit and commiserate all day that most of it isn't their own doing, but at the end of it, we still have social meltdown in those areas, and that can't keep going on.

As I've commented before, you tend to want to focus on one thing and coax people to give greater weight to this one thing without acknowledging the validity of other factors, or the connection between these factors.

Social class is often connected to parenting, rules, role models, etc. you can't separate things this way. Of course, you can be poor and have great parents and a great environment, and vice versa, but generally speaking where you have poverty you have lacking education, desperation, absentee parents, etc. People often seem to speak of poverty and social class as a short form for these things, but all of these things are often connected.
     
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Dec 7, 2014, 02:55 PM
 
@OAW

There's nothing beneath you. Oh, and it's impossible to have a "substantive debate" with you, because you can't see over your own agenda. Copy>pasting party talking points isn't debating.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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besson3c
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Dec 7, 2014, 03:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
@OAW

There's nothing beneath you. Oh, and it's impossible to have a "substantive debate" with you, because you can't see over your own agenda. Copy>pasting party talking points isn't debating.

Why don't you address the stuff he's brought to your attention a few times now before making a comment about his debating skills?
     
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Dec 7, 2014, 03:12 PM
 
^^^^

Exactly. It's one thing to ignore a point that was made and move on to something else. It's quite another to ignore it and turn around and repeat a statement that's in direct contravention to MULTIPLE third-party news article reports right in front of your face in black and white.

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Dec 7, 2014 at 03:45 PM. )
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Dec 7, 2014, 03:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
As I've commented before, you tend to want to focus on one thing and coax people to give greater weight to this one thing without acknowledging the validity of other factors, or the connection between these factors.

Social class is often connected to parenting, rules, role models, etc. you can't separate things this way. Of course, you can be poor and have great parents and a great environment, and vice versa, but generally speaking where you have poverty you have lacking education, desperation, absentee parents, etc. People often seem to speak of poverty and social class as a short form for these things, but all of these things are often connected.
Actually I didn't discount finances, at all, I said there are more important factors at work. Absolutely poverty is a factor, but I believe there are self-inflicted wounds, specifically inflicted by their leadership, that are causing the problems in the first place.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
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besson3c
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Dec 7, 2014, 03:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Actually I didn't discount finances, at all, I said there are more important factors at work. Absolutely poverty is a factor, but I believe there are self-inflicted wounds, specifically inflicted by their leadership, that are causing the problems in the first place.
"Their leadership"? Who is the leader of black people? Who is the leader of white people?

There is no leader of a race.
     
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Dec 7, 2014, 03:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
^^^^

Exactly. It's one thing to ignore a point that was made and move on to something else. It's quite another to ignore it and turn around and repeat a statement that's in direct contravention to MULTIPLE third-party news article reports right in front of your face in black and white.

OAW
Third-party reports that were BS from the onset? Heh. It doesn't matter at all, though, looks like we're going to find out what's in those records anyway.

An appeals court has required that a judge who is withholding Michael Brown's juvenile criminal record explain herself by December 18 via a "response brief." The Hon. Ellen Levy Siwak denied the request made by Charles C. Johnson of GotNews who filed a lawsuit in August for Brown's juvenile criminal record, should one exist, but did not give an explanation for the denial.

The appeal, available here, explains in detail on pages 4 and 5 that the lawsuit was filed only after numerous other methods for a request of the records was denied. After it was widely and somewhat disingenuously reported that Brown did not have a criminal record, Johnson sued the court to retrieve juvenile records considering that Brown was only an adult in the eyes of the law for a short period of time. After Johnson filed suit, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch also filed for access to Brown's juvenile record.

USA Today and numerous others reported in August that the St. Louis County Prosecutor's office "confirmed that Brown had no prior misdemeanors or felonies against him." But Mike Brown, as well as all residents of Missouri, enjoy confidentiality when it comes to their juvenile records, which can only be retrieved in certain circumstances.
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Dec 7, 2014, 04:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
"Their leadership"? Who is the leader of black people? Who is the leader of white people?

There is no leader of a race.
Sharpton, Jackson, Farrakhan, a majority of the Democratic party, etc.. Though, if you're trying to contend that they have no real leadership and it's all a chaotic mess, then I think an argument can be made for that.
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OAW
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Dec 7, 2014, 04:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
"Their leadership"? Who is the leader of black people? Who is the leader of white people?

There is no leader of a race.
You have to realize that basic common sense like that simply eludes some people.

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Dec 7, 2014, 04:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Third-party reports that were BS from the onset?
So is it your contention that Ms. Harcourt did NOT say that she could neither confirm nor deny the existence of a juvenile record for Mike Brown? Yes or no? Because anything else is more deflection on your part. Simple as that.

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Cap'n Tightpants
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Dec 7, 2014, 04:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
You have to realize that basic common sense like that simply eludes some people.
Speaking for yourself, of course.

Originally Posted by OAW View Post
So is it your contention that Ms. Harcourt did NOT say that she could neither confirm nor deny the existence of a juvenile record for Mike Brown? Yes or no? Because anything else is more deflection on your part. Simple as that.
That was a lot of CYA, thinking she'd never have to release them, ie. weasel words.

"We're not releasing those records to satisfy curiosity... I mean, if they exist, that is. Yeah, that's it!"

Now that it looks like she'll have to release them, we'll all get to see. Good times.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
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Dec 7, 2014, 04:24 PM
 
^^^^

We'll just note that you didn't answer a very simple question in the slightest. Instead you continue with your DEFLECTION and start talking about a completely different part of the article. Intellectual bitchassness confirmed yet again.

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Dec 7, 2014, 04:55 PM
 
     
besson3c
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Dec 7, 2014, 05:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Sharpton, Jackson, Farrakhan, a majority of the Democratic party, etc.. Though, if you're trying to contend that they have no real leadership and it's all a chaotic mess, then I think an argument can be made for that.
I was expecting you to suggest that.

Joe Sixpack black guy likely has no idea who these people are, and even if he does, he surely don't cling to every word they say just like you don't cling to something a white leader would say.

Who is the leader of white people?
     
OAW
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Dec 7, 2014, 06:14 PM
 
^^^^

Exactly. Not only is it much easier to convince oneself of this kind of ridiculous nonsense than to have a substantive discussion of the issues ... it's also incredibly INSULTING to constantly pretend that 30+ MILLION African-Americans are somehow mindless simpletons blindly hanging onto every word of the handful of black people that the likes of Tightpants can even name.

OAW
     
 
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