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So, any concerns right-wingers? (Apparently none at all.) Also, is Japan a jerk? (Page 18)
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Laminar
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Sep 19, 2017, 09:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
When you do rush changes they become a disaster (see the afore-mentioned [repeal attepts of] Obamacare)
That's better.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Sep 19, 2017, 09:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I know it is, with the exception of Obamacare he's virtually erased Obama's legacy, and in only 6 months. If you think; Obamacare isn't going to be replaced, the Wall isn't going to happen, and Hillary isn't going to be indicted, you're high. There are a lot of people who believe change must happen overnight, it's likely why you're on the Left, but that's not how federal politics works. When you do rush changes they become a disaster (see the afore-mentioned Obamacare), like everything the Democratic party has attempted over the last decade.
The spin here is dizzying...

Under Obama: "where is my change? He promised change and he's had enough time to deliver. How is that hopey-changey stuff working out?"
Under Trump: "hey man, change takes time"

Why are you so optimistic about Trump fulfilling these promises? He's shown nothing in the form of effective execution. He may *want* to fulfill his promises, but so did Obama and I don't recall him receiving your benefit of doubt. Execution is a whole other matter, and it takes two to tango.
( Last edited by besson3c; Sep 19, 2017 at 10:12 AM. )
     
andi*pandi
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Sep 19, 2017, 11:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I know he flipped, but as it turned out it was a ploy so he could flip back, as he's doing with the Pelosi and Schumer deal (so that they'll be more willing to work with him on the wall and immigration reform). None of the "Dreamers" who aren't criminals will be deported, it was never his intention, it was a gambit.
Tell that to all the lawful business owners, taxpayers, and family people who've been deported. They were a gambit.
     
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Sep 19, 2017, 04:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
If he stays the course, then good on him.

Some water needs to go under this bridge before I'm convinced.
Well yeah, obviously, as with anything in politics. Trump's certainly a boorish, obnoxious, spiteful, vindictive, manipulative, conniving asshole, so he definitely should be watched, but I don't think he'd unceremoniously throw out all the "Dreamers", or any otherwise law-abiding illegals. His position from the start of his campaign has been that if you're here illegally, and you can't abide by our laws, you need to be tossed out on your ear, and I agree with him.
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Sep 19, 2017, 04:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Tell that to all the lawful business owners, taxpayers, and family people who've been deported. They were a gambit.
As "lawful business owners and taxpayers", how did they "lawfully" pay taxes without a lawful SSN? Care to explain? Also, what does "family people" mean?
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Sep 19, 2017, 04:35 PM
 
Pelosi had a press conference overrun by DACA supporters who chanted that the democrats have been a “deportation machine.’
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/il...rticle/2634772
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 19, 2017, 04:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Pelosi had a press conference overrun by DACA supporters who chanted that the democrats have been a “deportation machine.’
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/il...rticle/2634772
Do you think they're right?
     
Laminar
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Sep 19, 2017, 04:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
As "lawful business owners and taxpayers", how did they "lawfully" pay taxes without a lawful SSN? Care to explain? Also, what does "family people" mean?
Is there a specific reason you have other people do your Googling for you?

https://www.theatlantic.com/business...-taxes/499604/

It works like this: Many immigrants who aren’t authorized to work in the United States buy fake Social Security cards and present them to their employers, who either don’t know they are fake or don’t look too closely. When the employer submits a W-2 form and a tax payment on those workers’ behalf to the Social Security Administration, the federal government holds onto those payroll taxes, even if the Social Security number isn’t linked to anyone on file. And then, a large chunk of that money ends up in the Social Security trust funds, from which retirement benefits are doled out to aging Americans.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...nts-pay-taxes/

According to the Social Security Administration, there were nearly 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States in January 2009. Factoring out kids, nonworking immigrants and those working in the underground economy and not paying taxes, the Social Security Administration estimated about 3.1 million unauthorized immigrants who worked and paid Social Security taxes in 2010.

This group and their employers generated about $13 billion in payroll taxes in 2010. The administration then subtracted about $1 billion in benefits that could’ve been received in 2010 from earnings in years when workers were unauthorized. Workers and employers contribute roughly the same amount.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/19/news...xes/index.html

But why would millions of undocumented immigrants file their tax returns if they could easily fly under the radar?
"First of all, it's the law," said Jose Magaña-Salgado, a policy attorney at the Immigrant Legal Resource Center. "And these undocumented immigrants are trying to abide by the law and are fulfilling their civic and financial responsibilities."
Should they ever go before an immigration judge, it will also help their case.
Magaña-Salgado said judges tend to look more favorably upon immigrants who have a history of filing and paying their taxes. "Filing taxes helps to build a record of existence here in the United States if they are facing permanent deportation hearings," he said.
Many undocumented immigrants are also seeking to get a refund.
"Whether someone is documented or not, it doesn't mean that they shouldn't avail themselves to the tax laws of the U.S.," Magaña-Salgado said. "And if they are due a refund, it's because they paid more than their income required."
In order to file for a federal tax return, undocumented immigrants need to apply for an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) from the Internal Revenue Service.
The IRS issues these numbers to individuals who must file taxes, but don't possess or aren't eligible for a Social Security number. ITINs are issued to people regardless of their immigration status. An ITIN doesn't give a person legal work authorization and doesn't provide eligibility for Social Security benefits, according to the IRS website.
https://immigration.procon.org/view....stionID=000789

Like other people living and working in the United States, undocumented immigrants pay state and local taxes. They pay sales and excise taxes when they purchase goods and services (for example, on utilities, clothing and gasoline). They pay property taxes directly on their homes or indirectly as renters. Many undocumented immigrants also pay state income taxes. The best evidence suggests that at least 50 percent of undocumented immigrant households currently file income tax returns using Individual Tax Identification Numbers (ITINs), and many who do not file income tax returns still have taxes deducted from their paychecks.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 19, 2017, 04:42 PM
 
I wouldn't be surprised if illegals pay a higher effective tax rate than some of our job creators.
     
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Sep 19, 2017, 04:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Pelosi had a press conference overrun by DACA supporters who chanted that the democrats have been a “deportation machine.’
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/il...rticle/2634772
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Do you think they're right?
According to ABC news, yes.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama...ry?id=41715661
How many people have been deported under Obama?

President Barack Obama has often been referred to by immigration groups as the "Deporter in Chief."
Between 2009 and 2015 his administration has removed more than 2.5 million people through immigration orders, which doesn’t include the number of people who "self-deported" or were turned away and/or returned to their home country at the border by U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP).

How does he compare to other presidents?

According to governmental data, the Obama administration has deported more people than any other president's administration in history.
In fact, they have deported more than the sum of all the presidents of the 20th century.

President George W. Bush's administration deported just over two million during his time in office; and Obama’s numbers don’t reflect his last year in office, for which data is not yet available.
     
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Sep 19, 2017, 05:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if illegals pay a higher effective tax rate than some of our job creators.
I pay a lower effective rate than some of our job creators. I think it was 11% last year. Trumps was reported to be 24% (2005), Romney's has been reported as 14%
     
Laminar
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Sep 19, 2017, 05:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
I pay a lower effective rate than some of our job creators. I think it was 11% last year. Trumps was reported to be 24% (2005), Romney's has been reported as 14%
https://immigration.procon.org/view....stionID=000789

Another way to measure the state and local taxes that undocumented immigrants pay is through their effective tax rate, which is the share of total income paid in taxes… Undocumented immigrants' nationwide average effective tax rate is an estimated 8 percent. To put this in perspective, the top 1 percent of taxpayers pay an average nationwide effective tax rate of just 5.4 percent."
     
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Sep 19, 2017, 06:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Is there a specific reason you have other people do your Googling for you?
Yeah, you proved they're breaking the law, but I already knew that buying and using fake SSNs is a rather serious crime. Thanks.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if illegals pay a higher effective tax rate than some of our job creators.
Impossible to really know since it's all illicit, though, and as many as several hundred people use the same SSNs.
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The Final Dakar
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Sep 19, 2017, 06:38 PM
 
That's far lower than I expected, however it's likely skewed by the guys truly dodging taxes.
     
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Sep 19, 2017, 10:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
I pay a lower effective rate than some of our job creators. I think it was 11% last year. Trumps was reported to be 24% (2005), Romney's has been reported as 14%
This is the tax rate Trump paid 12 years ago, we don't know how high it was in 2015 or 2016. In any case, 24 % is about 11 % below the income tax bracket and 7 % lower than what Hillary Clinton paid.
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Laminar
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Sep 20, 2017, 02:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Yeah, you proved they're breaking the law, but I already knew that buying and using fake SSNs is a rather serious crime. Thanks.
ITIN
     
andi*pandi
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Sep 20, 2017, 02:40 PM
 
Perhaps this last few posts should be in the Mexico thread?

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/inte...in-information

What is an ITIN?
An Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) is a tax processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service. It is a nine-digit number that always begins with the number 9 and has a range of 70-88 in the fourth and fifth digit. Effective April 12, 2011, the range was extended to include 900-70-0000 through 999-88-9999, 900-90-0000 through 999-92-9999 and 900-94-0000 through 999-99-9999. IRS issues ITINs to individuals who are required to have a U.S. taxpayer identification number but who do not have, and are not eligible to obtain a Social Security Number (SSN) from the Social Security Administration (SSA).

ITINs are issued regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have a U.S. filing or reporting requirement under the Internal Revenue Code.

Individuals must have a filing requirement and file a valid federal income tax return to receive an ITIN, unless they meet an exception.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 21, 2017, 07:12 PM
 
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...flights-242989

Any problems? Isn't this swamp behavior?
     
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Sep 21, 2017, 09:32 PM
 
Let me guess, you're going to say "yes"? Well, at least he's doing his job, unlike Burwell, who purportedly never left her office. Some serious bottom-of-the-barrel-scraping going on there.
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Sep 22, 2017, 12:23 AM
 
People can't do their jobs from their offices?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Sep 22, 2017, 10:07 AM
 
Apparently Tom Price couldn't. I'm not going to call into question someone's integrity over wanting to see how a system is functioning, first hand. Sounds like a dedicated, valuable official, to me.
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andi*pandi
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Sep 22, 2017, 12:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Let me guess, you're going to say "yes"? Well, at least he's doing his job, unlike Burwell, who purportedly never left her office. Some serious bottom-of-the-barrel-scraping going on there.
The article said previous HHS travelled commercial, which surely implies they left the office. There's no reason for his conference or speaking appearances he could not also do the same.
     
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Sep 22, 2017, 02:09 PM
 
The crazy thing is Devos is using her private jet but paying the costs herself. She's probably saving the taxpayers some minor cash. For all her terrible views, I have a lot of respect for that.
     
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Sep 22, 2017, 02:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Apparently Tom Price couldn't. I'm not going to call into question someone's integrity over wanting to see how a system is functioning, first hand. Sounds like a dedicated, valuable official, to me.
But you're ok calling her integrity into question based on your flawed assumption that she didn't fly all over the country all the time?

In all seriousness, you do know that his integrity isn't being questioned because he flew places or even because of how many places he flew to don't you? Only you keep missing flagrantly obvious key details in order to make consequently feeble partisan arguments.
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Sep 22, 2017, 02:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
The crazy thing is Devos is using her private jet but paying the costs herself. She's probably saving the taxpayers some minor cash. For all her terrible views, I have a lot of respect for that.
A lot of respect? Seems a bit too much to me.

A billionaire who in all likelihood just doesn't want to sit amongst the riffraff or at best considers her time too valuable to have to queue up alongside them saves the taxpayer a few domestic air fares here and there. Its probably about equivalent to someone on minimum wage feeding the ducks at their local pond. Or are you giving her lots of relative respect for a Republican for not having the gall to bill a totally unnecessary private jet to the taxpayer? That would make a kind of sense I guess. We can be fairly certain that Trump would be billing it at a hefty markup anyway.
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Sep 22, 2017, 03:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
The article said previous HHS travelled commercial, which surely implies they left the office. There's no reason for his conference or speaking appearances he could not also do the same.
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
The crazy thing is Devos is using her private jet but paying the costs herself. She's probably saving the taxpayers some minor cash. For all her terrible views, I have a lot of respect for that.
You guys are talking about Devos, I said Burwell. I'm not privy to Devos' habits or managerial style, but I know someone (a neighbor's niece) who interned in Burwell's office. If she took commercial flights it was perhaps a couple times, because otherwise she was holed-up in her office. Oh, and here, you can have this back. --->
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Sep 22, 2017, 04:09 PM
 
I was talking about Price. For scheduled appearances he can fly commercial.

That Devos pays her way, well, that's fine I suppose. That's how she got the job after all.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 22, 2017, 04:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I was talking about Price. For scheduled appearances he can fly commercial.

That Devos pays her way, well, that's fine I suppose. That's how she got the job after all.
Snap
     
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Sep 22, 2017, 04:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
You guys are talking about Devos, I said Burwell. I'm not privy to Devos' habits or managerial style, but I know someone (a neighbor's niece) who interned in Burwell's office. If she took commercial flights it was perhaps a couple times, because otherwise she was holed-up in her office. Oh, and here, you can have this back. --->
It took about 2 min on google to discover that she gave 100 public speeches in her time as HHS secretary, and 18 of those we outside DC. I'm assuming the other 82 were not given in her office. I would imagine that if I were more dedicated, I could uncover her full, official travel schedule, but honestly, I'm pretty tired.

What is it that compels you to post such easily disprovable nonsense as fact?
     
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Sep 22, 2017, 05:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
18 of those we outside DC.
A whole 18 trips in 2.5 years? Really? While the current HHS secretary beat that in the first 3 months in office. Sure looks like she doesn't get out as much, and spends a lot more time locked away, doesn't it?

What is it that compels you to post such easily disprovable nonsense as fact?
I dunno, what's your excuse? <---- I know you love those, enjoy.
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Sep 22, 2017, 05:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
A whole 18 trips in 2.5 years? Really? While the current HHS secretary beat that in the first 3 months in office. Sure looks like she doesn't get out as much, and spends a lot more time locked away, doesn't it?
I'll try again so maybe you will understand, those were speeches, not all travel. There is no reason to believe beyond the word of your pretend neighbour's daughter that she didn't travel. And, no, he doesn't have it beat in the first three months in office. He has give 13 speeches since taking office, seven of those have been in DC, and one was in his home state of Georgia.

Nothing in this data proves or even strongly indicates that he spends more or less time in the office than Burwell did.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I dunno, what's your excuse? <---- I know you love those, enjoy.
Citation?
     
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Sep 22, 2017, 08:11 PM
 
Most employers would be quicker to be suspicious of the guy who's never in the office than the guy who's always there.
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Sep 23, 2017, 01:41 AM
 
An executive political office that covers 3,537,441 square miles is hardly "most jobs". I'd say most could get away with it on a relatively small island kingdom, perhaps, but not a country to size of the USA.
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Sep 23, 2017, 12:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
An executive political office that covers 3,537,441 square miles is hardly "most jobs". I'd say most could get away with it on a relatively small island kingdom, perhaps, but not a country to size of the USA.
Facebook covered everywhere but China. Does Zuckerberg not do most of his work from his home or his office? I expect he does. :/
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Sep 23, 2017, 01:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Facebook covered everywhere but China. Does Zuckerberg not do most of his work from his home or his office? I expect he does. :/
Not even comparable, since the Zuck (who is a chief exec, much like a POTUS) has people like the HHS sec who DO travel all over and do shit for him. Want me to explain executive structures for you? (Not being sarcastic, a lot of people don't understand that.)
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Oct 10, 2017, 01:16 PM
 
Assuming right wingers are into security, any complaints about DHS not having a formal head two months after Kelly departed? If not at how many months will you become concerned?
     
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Nov 9, 2017, 10:51 AM
 
GOP congressmen keep mentioning that if they don't pass tax cuts their donors will cut them off. Is this a troubling reason to pass legislation?
     
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Nov 16, 2017, 05:47 PM
 
I know this thread is dead, but:
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...-debate-244652
Paul Ryan vowed an end to the much-despised top-down approach of his predecessor when he took the speaker’s gavel in 2015, promising a House that’s “more open, more inclusive, more deliberative, more participatory.”

“We're not going to bottle up the process so much and predetermine the outcome of everything around here,” he said in his first news conference as speaker.

But two years later, the House Rules Committee, which is controlled by the speaker, just set a record for the most closed rules in a session — barring lawmakers for the 49th time from offering amendments on a bill.

Ryan has yet to allow a single piece of legislation to be governed by an open rule, which allows members to propose changes on the floor.

That makes Ryan the only speaker in modern history to forgo the open process entirely so far, according to senior House Democratic sources. They argue such a strategy — while politically expedient for Republicans eager to avoid toxic and divisive votes — is bad for democracy because it stifles debate.
Wasn't part of the opposition to Boehner from conservative side because of this shit?
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 16, 2018, 10:12 PM
 
Seems like a relevant time to bump this thread.

Any thoughts on that that Trump-Putin press conference?
     
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Jul 16, 2018, 10:40 PM
 
This pretty much sums it up for me.



OAW
     
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Jul 16, 2018, 10:48 PM
 
"I don't see any reason why it would be"
     
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Jul 17, 2018, 02:18 PM
 
Even Newt Gingrich called him out for how much of a disaster it was.
     
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Jul 17, 2018, 02:40 PM
 
Pres.Trump is doing a good job of doing this to the swamp:
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 17, 2018, 02:41 PM
 
that gif needs an epilepsy warning. I fixed it for you.

But which swamp, the mythical one Trump supposedly was getting rid of, or the one he created? If he got rid of the swamp, then how could he have annoyed them by pushing their buttons?

If saying that it's our fault Russia meddled in our elections is your idea of pushing buttons haha fun, you are as deranged as President Cheeto.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 17, 2018, 03:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Even Newt Gingrich called him out for how much of a disaster it was.
there are quotes of Gingrich defending them attacking Mueller. Maybe his first reaction is his real one but don't be surprised if he backpedals in a week.


Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Pres.Trump is doing a good job of doing this to the swamp:
What does that have to do with him siding with Putin over the US?
     
Chongo
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Jul 17, 2018, 03:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
that gif needs an epilepsy warning. I fixed it for you.

But which swamp, the mythical one Trump supposedly was getting rid of, or the one he created? If he got rid of the swamp, then how could he have annoyed them by pushing their buttons?

If saying that it's our fault Russia meddled in our elections is your idea of pushing buttons haha fun, you are as deranged as President Cheeto.
The media swamp.
     
Chongo
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Jul 17, 2018, 03:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
there are quotes of Gingrich defending them attacking Mueller. Maybe his first reaction is his real one but don't be surprised if he backpedals in a week.




What does that have to do with him siding with Putin over the US?
I see you are still looking at the shiny object. It looks like you missed his photo op that just eneded.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 17, 2018, 04:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
I see you are still looking at the shiny object. It looks like you missed his photo op that just eneded.
Speaking in riddles to disguise your lack of substance I see.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Jul 17, 2018, 07:22 PM
 
Chongo: any change in your thinking about Trump?
     
Chongo
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Jul 17, 2018, 07:28 PM
 
No, he’s still the same Trump, and Hillary is not making SCOTUS picks.
     
 
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