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"_____" while black (Page 5)
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reader50
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Jul 2, 2019, 12:35 AM
 
How nearby was it? On the walkways around the hospital (patient story wins) or down the street (cops win)?

Who pulled the IV out? Cops (patient story wins) or a hospital nurse (as cops say)? Wouldn't the nurse know he was a patient? Did they really take his breather too?

The stories disagree, and I can't tell which version is reasonable without more data. I don't smoke, so hadn't considered that reason to walk outside. It would still be crazy to smoke when you have pneumonia and are on an IV. Cops don't help by withholding their bodycam videos (or turning them off). So both stories sound weird to me, and I'd like to see the hospital security footage.
     
OreoCookie
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Jul 2, 2019, 01:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
How nearby was it? On the walkways around the hospital (patient story wins) or down the street (cops win)?
Don't you think that this already gives too much credence to the stories the cops would like to tell. I haven't heard stories of patients fleeing with their IVs for the purpose of selling them. Nobody in their right mind would flee wearing a hospital gown, that makes no sense. (I have heard a few stories of patients fleeing, but often dementia was involved here.) IMHO it is immaterial whether the patient was or was not on hospital grounds.
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Who pulled the IV out? Cops (patient story wins) or a hospital nurse (as cops say)? Wouldn't the nurse know he was a patient? Did they really take his breather too?
How can this be a consideration? A nurse can't decide whether or not a patient needs an IV, that's the responsibility of the physician in charge. So even if the cops are right that a nurse pulled the IV (perhaps at the request of some police officer), that doesn't make it right.
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
The stories disagree, and I can't tell which version is reasonable without more data. I don't smoke, so hadn't considered that reason to walk outside. It would still be crazy to smoke when you have pneumonia and are on an IV.
I don't know whether the victim is a smoker, so this was just speculation. But smokers do crazy things to satisfy their cravings for nicotine. When I visit my mom's hospital, there is usually a gaggle of patients in bath robes, sometimes with their IVs or sitting in wheel chairs, having a smoke. Now hers is an orthopedic hospital, but still. Nevertheless, it is extremely common for patients to step outside for fresh air. Being in a hospital is boring.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Laminar
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Jul 2, 2019, 08:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Who pulled the IV out? Cops (patient story wins) or a hospital nurse (as cops say)? Wouldn't the nurse know he was a patient? Did they really take his breather too?
Woah woah woah.

The Freeport Police Department said in a statement that Dukes' IV was removed by a staff member of the hospital, Freeport Health Network (FHN), at the patient's request.
"Staff member of the hospital"

"Dukes wrote that his IV was removed, 'and it was NOT by a doctor,'"

Remember:

"The guard called the Freeport Police Department"

"The statement said police were called to the scene on June 9 because an FHN employee had called them to report Dukes and two others"

No said it was a nurse, the police say it was a "staff member," who could possibly have been a guard.

Those stories don't conflict.
     
OAW
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Jul 9, 2019, 11:13 AM
 
Waiting for your handicapped friend while black. Full video here.

A young boy came to the defense of a black man on the Fourth of July as the boy's father questioned and later called the police on the man who said he was waiting for a friend at a San Francisco apartment building.

Wesly Michel recorded his encounter with the boy and his father, who appears to be white, and shared the video on Facebook, where it has garnered more than 1.2 million views.


During the three-and-a-half-minute recording, the boy can be heard pleading with his father not to call police on Michel, whom the father says is a "trespasser" in his building.

Michel tells the man that if he calls the police he'll be the "next person on TV," alluding to viral videos in which police were called on black people for mundane things like taking a phone call in a hotel lobby, waiting for a friend at Starbucks or working out at a gym.

"Unfortunately this incident mirrors the experience that African Americans endure daily where we are questioned on whether we belong," Michel, 35, a software engineer, said in a statement to CNN. "I videotaped this incident to protect myself and to support my story should police get involved."

CNN has attempted to identify and reach the man in the video but has so far been unable to.

Michel encountered the father and son on Independence Day as he says he was waiting on a friend at an apartment building in San Francisco. The video begins as the man asks Michel to identify the person he is there to see and to "please call your friend on the call box and have them come down and get you."

Michel declines.

"They don't have to do that. You can just walk away," Michel responds.

The man, who appears to be holding open the door to the building during the conversation, tells Michel he's going to call the police.
"Daddy don't!" the child says as the man pulls out his cell phone.

Michel welcomes the call and reminds the man that he is being recorded.

"You're just gonna be the next person on TV, just remember that and you have your son with you," Michel tells the man.

The man calls the police and tells them that Michel is a "trespasser," who "tailgated" into the building, walking in as he was walking out.
As the man talks to police, his son begins pleading with him to leave and to not call police.

"Dad, don't. Please go," the boy says. "Daddy go. It's the better; I agree with him, daddy."

The boy begins to cry as his father describes Michel to police.

"Daddy, I don't like this. Let's go," he says.

"Listen to your son, walk away," Michel says. "I will stop this. I will stop the recording."

Michel's friend walks up as the man is on the phone with police. The friend appears to come from outside the building.

"Told you. Let's go now," the young boy says and begins pulling his dad. "Daddy, look what you've gotten us into. Let's go!"

The man asks for confirmation that the resident is Michel's friend and ends his call with police after telling them that Michel is "actually here with a resident." Police do not appear to respond to the scene.

The man asks Michel to stop recording, but he continues anyway.

"Now you're online forever," Michel said.

Michel says he "could never have imagined" how quickly his instincts to protect himself would arise.

"I believe that ultimately everyone wants to be seen for who they are and not prejudged," he said. "I'm an American, a brother, a son and an ambitious Engineer who loves to code and wants to greatly contribute to the tech world in (San Francisco), a city that I love."
A crying boy begged his father not to call the police on a black man. The father did it anyway. | CNN.com



OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Jul 9, 2019 at 11:28 AM. )
     
el chupacabra
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Jul 10, 2019, 02:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Waiting for your handicapped friend while black.
If you lived in a locked apartment/condo building, and someone you didnt know waited outside for you to come out so they could push their way in on your key card would you let them in?
     
turtle777
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Jul 10, 2019, 04:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Waiting for your handicapped friend while black.
I’m not sure I understand exactly what happened.

Did this Michel dude just WAIT outside the apartment doors/gates, or was he trying to get in without his friend letting him in ?

-t
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 10, 2019, 05:19 PM
 
Looks like he walked into the foyer as the dad was walking out. Something I wouldn't do.
     
OAW
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Jul 10, 2019, 05:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
If you lived in a locked apartment/condo building, and someone you didnt know waited outside for you to come out so they could push their way in on your key card would you let them in?
It's real interesting how your characterization of what happened makes Mr. Michel's actions seem far more "aggressive" than they actually were ...

Cukor said he was on his way out and noticed Michel caught the door and entered the building without using the callbox. He said he asked where he was going -- and would ask any other person a similar question.

The video begins as Cukor asks Michel to identify the person he is there to see and to "please call your friend on the call box and have them come down and get you.
There was no "waiting". There was no "pushing". He caught the door before it closed and walked in. As people do all day, every day at work, home, wherever.

But to answer your question if I lived in such a building and I had reason to be suspicious and/or concerned about an individual I did not recognize I would just immediately close the door behind me when I exited the building. Instead of letting it swing shut on its own thereby providing someone the opportunity to "tailgate". That way said individual would have no choice but to use a key card or the call box. It's as simple as that. What I would NOT do is be an asshole and go calling the police in a situation that certainly didn't warrant it.

A black man who was accused of trespassing at a San Francisco apartment building by a white father and shot video of their tense encounter is responding to the father's explanation and apology.

The video shot by Wesly Michel on July Fourth and widely shared on social media has sparked a larger conversation on race as both men give their perspective on the confrontation.

In the footage, the white man identified as Christopher Cukor demands that Michel, who is black, leave the property after he said he was meeting a friend.

After days of backlash, Cukor wrote in a statement posted on Medium on Tuesday that he did not target Michel due to his race, but reacted based on his past. His father was killed when he confronted a trespasser outside his home, and "past experiences and fears" can cloud someone's intentions, he wrote.

"For my child's safety, my safety and that of the building, I felt it was necessary to get help in this situation," he wrote. "Furthermore, I've encountered trespassers in my building and we've been robbed several times. This is not uncommon in San Francisco and the bad actors are all different colors."

Michel, 35, a software engineer, said people should not judge others based on past experiences.

"The fact that he had to have interactions with other minorities in his life and still treated me that way, shows me that he has not evolved from that," Michel told CNN's Don Lemon on Tuesday night. "He's still hurt from that."

While Cukor is understandably traumatized by his father's death, Michel said, he should not let those experiences cloud his view of others.

"Personally, I am African-American and I have been stopped and harassed at stores and different locations and I have police officers asking me if I belong there or even in my apartment complex ... people randomly telling me that I don't belong at that location. But, I don't let those experiences shape or define the way I see other people," Michel said.

Such experiences should be an opportunity for learning, not exposing your biases, he said.

"My responsibility is not to make everyone around me feel comfortable. It is very important that people understand that. I should be able to walk around freely and not feel that I should constantly prove that I am not a threat to the people around me," Michel said.

Michel said one key question Cukor should ask himself is whether he would have acted the same if Michel were white.
[OAW: And I'll bet you my next 3 paychecks Mr. Cukor has NEVER called the police on a white man for "tailgating"! Note above how he claimed he would "ASK any other person a SIMILAR QUESTION" ... NOT that he would "CALL THE POLICE on any other person in a similar situation." ]

"It is important for people to understand when you call a police officer on an African-American, it is completely different than someone calling a police officer on someone else. TO ME THAT'S A DEATH THREAT. ... I can literally die from that altercation, and I would just simply be another hashtag in the news or on Twitter. It is important that people understand that," Michel said.

CNN has attempted to reach Cukor but has not heard back. In his written response, he said, he understands Michel was reacting based on his unique history as well.

"Unfortunately, there is a terrible pattern of people calling the authorities regarding people of color for no other reason than their race," Cukor wrote.
A white father called police on a black man in San Francisco. Both men speak out on the confrontation | CNN.com

So Mr. Cukor is correct. There is this "terrible pattern". Which unfortunately he just perpetuated. Perhaps even sub-consciously. Because as I've stated on plenty of occasions around here most situations like this result from "implicit bias" as opposed to outright "racial animus". Nonetheless, this attitude that far too many white people have (especially white women ... what's up with that?) that they are somehow "deputized" to police black people in public spaces is some BS. Because it can far too often result in deadly consequences.

OAW
     
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Jul 10, 2019, 05:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I’m not sure I understand exactly what happened.

Did this Michel dude just WAIT outside the apartment doors/gates, or was he trying to get in without his friend letting him in ?

-t
From what I've gathered he went in and was waiting for his friend in the lobby/foyer.

OAW
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 10, 2019, 06:17 PM
 
"Personally, I am African-American and I have been stopped and harassed at stores and different locations and I have police officers asking me if I belong there or even in my apartment complex ... people randomly telling me that I don't belong at that location. But, I don't let those experiences shape or define the way I see other people," Michel said.
Being harassed at your own apartment complex has to suck, I agree that's not fair or ok. However, I think Michel has let those experiences shape him, if his first reaction is to film, bully, intimidate, and not apologize for yes, trespassing on someone else's turf. Talking to the guy's kid. :/ If the building didn't have an "airlock" 2-doors situation, Michel was basically in the private area of the building without reason. That's not the waiting area.

It sounds like Mr. Cukor also has experiences with crime and violence that are valid and shape his worldview. He sounds like he is trying to be reasonable but also safe. We all have that right.

Why didn't Michel wait outside or use the call button? That's what I would do, have done. The only people that don't are criminals and tv show detectives who sneak into apartments looking for clues.
     
OAW
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Jul 10, 2019, 08:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Being harassed at your own apartment complex has to suck, I agree that's not fair or ok. However, I think Michel has let those experiences shape him, if his first reaction is to film, bully, intimidate, and not apologize for yes, trespassing on someone else's turf.
Well all I can is that's simply not the way I see it. To begin with Mr. Michel never said his experiences didn't "shape him". He said they don't "shape or define the way I see OTHER PEOPLE". There's a very big difference. Moreover, Mr. Michel wasn't the one who initiated the interaction. Mr. Cukor did by demanding that he prove he had a legitimate reason to be there. He was very smart to record the encounter AFTER it started to become contentious because if he hadn't it would have been a "white man said vs black man said" situation which wouldn't have ended well for him. And even then he basically asked Mr. Cukor to just leave him alone and walk away. He certainly did nothing to "bully" or "intimidate" Mr. Cukor ... he just let him know in no uncertain terms that he didn't have to answer to him. Period. Not to mention it's decidedly NOT Mr. Cukor's "turf". He doesn't OWN that building. It's not his private property. He's neither the doorman nor the security guard. He's a RENTER there like everyone else. And in what was yet another example of "deputized whiteness" he decided that he had the right to interrogate the black man instead of simply closing the door behind him.

Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
It sounds like Mr. Cukor also has experiences with crime and violence that are valid and shape his worldview. He sounds like he is trying to be reasonable but also safe. We all have that right.
He did. A terrible tragedy what happened to his father. Apparently his father called the police about a young man "hanging around his property acting strangely". He called the police to report it which was prudent. But the SF police didn't send anyone immediately because they were dealing with a large Occupy protest and they were dispatching officers for other calls only if it was an "emergency". Which they deemed this not to be since the guy wasn't doing anything threatening or trying to break in. Or to put it another way, neither the man nor his family were in any immediate danger given his calm demeanor on the phone and his own description of what was happening. But nonetheless he decided to go outside and confront the young man who turned out to be a mentally deranged individual who had been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia 5 years prior. Which was decidedly NOT prudent because an altercation ensued and he ended up getting bludgeoned to death in his driveway.

And so now I have ... questions. Because on the one hand he says this ...

Originally Posted by Mr. Cukor
My father was murdered outside his home by a trespasser who he confronted alone. For my child’s safety, my safety and that of the building, I felt it was necessary to get help in this situation.
But on the other hand the video shows he INITIATED and CONTINUED a confrontation with his child in tow ... the same child who was crying and pleading with him not to call the police and just leave. Now why would any father who truly believed his "child's safety" was at risk do that? Why keep your son next right to the guy who was supposedly such a "threat" that you felt the need to call the police to have him removed from the premises? I think the far more likely explanation here is that Mr. Cukor was upset because Mr. Michel didn't comply with his demands and basically told him to 'f*ck off and mind his business". And that is why he called the cops.

Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Why didn't Michel wait outside or use the call button? That's what I would do, have done. The only people that don't are criminals and tv show detectives who sneak into apartments looking for clues.
Well he didn't use the call box because he knew his friend wasn't at home yet. And you'd have to ask him why he didn't wait outside. Perhaps it was a really hot day in SF and he was getting out of the elements? But let's keep it real .... it's not like everything would have just been OK even if Mr. Michel had done so. Because chances are he would have been questioned by someone else acting upon their "deputized whiteness" for looking "suspicious" because he was just hanging around outside the building. Or had the cops called on him anyway for "loitering".

OAW

PS. Remember the white woman who tried to block the black man from entering the apartment building he lived in until he proved to her that he belonged there? And then called the cops when he refused? We talked about it a while back. Well it doesn't really matter that in this case the black man wasn't a resident of the building. Because the issue in all of these instances is the underlying entitlement. Same sh*t ... different day.
( Last edited by OAW; Jul 10, 2019 at 08:34 PM. )
     
el chupacabra
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Jul 10, 2019, 10:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
There was no "waiting". There was no "pushing". He caught the door before it closed and walked in. As people do all day, every day at work, home, wherever.
He was waiting outside the door & caught the door before it closed on someone else's key card. People dont do this all day long at the inner city buildings which have doors requiring you be buzzed in. Even at work. Places I've worked, if a group of employees approach a secured door - even if you've know the employees for the years they've worked there, the door must close behind you & each employee must card in individually.

Inner city apartment condos are not Burger king's. They are not public places. The lock is there for 1 reason & one reason only, to prevent non-residents from entering without permission of residents. The article mentioned there had been break-ins before, which could only come from people being too shy to confront tailgaters.
But to answer your question if I lived in such a building and I had reason to be suspicious and/or concerned about an individual I did not recognize I would just immediately close the door behind me when I exited the building. Instead of letting it swing shut on its own thereby providing someone the opportunity to "tailgate". That way said individual would have no choice but to use a key card or the call box. It's as simple as that.
...And if you happen to have your mind on something else that day & didnt think fast enough that someone else is going to try & tailgate you? I guess Cukor slipped up by not being vigilant enough & passing judgement sooner like you would have. What would be your reason for being suspicious by the way? Other than the fact you dont know the person - what more reason do you need to be suspicious of someone trying to illegally enter your building? It wouldnt have mattered in this case, if he'd closed the door he would have had the race card pulled for that. It's played for everything. I had a black man pull the race card on me because I stepped off the sidewalk onto the grass as he passed. He yelled at me some nonsense about how I stepped off the sidewalk because Im afraid "a brothers' gonna get me".
What I would NOT do is be an asshole and go calling the police in a situation that certainly didn't warrant it.
"It's real interesting how your characterization of what happened makes Cukor's actions seem far more "aggressive" than they actually were ..."
I saw him politely ask who he was visiting. Personally I wouldnt have allowed him in on that alone, but Cukor is being extra nice. Michel over reacts into a cursing mess.
So Mr. Cukor is correct. There is this "terrible pattern". Which unfortunately he just perpetuated. Perhaps even sub-consciously. Because as I've stated on plenty of occasions around here most situations like this result from "implicit bias" as opposed to outright "racial animus". Nonetheless, this attitude that far too many white people have (especially white women ... what's up with that?) that they are somehow "deputized" to police black people in public spaces is some BS. Because it can far too often result in deadly consequences.
The whole things' Wolf tickets. It wasnt a public space. The race cards' going to keep being pulled for petty stuff & we just have to keep calling woof tickets each time.

"It's important for people to understand when you call the police on an African-American, it is completely different than someone calling a police officer on someone else. TO ME THAT'S A DEATH THREAT. ... I can literally die from that altercation, and I would just simply be another hashtag in the news or on Twitter." Michel said.


Police Violence against Black Men Vs Being Struck by Lightning while Black

.
     
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Jul 10, 2019, 11:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
He was waiting outside the door & caught the door before it closed on someone else's key card. People dont do this all day long at the inner city buildings which have doors requiring you be buzzed in. Even at work.
Yeah they do. All the time. CIA headquarters might be an exception to the rule. But in everyday life? Not so much! If people are worried about it then hire a doorman/security guard. But if the residents don’t want to spend the money then they have to rely upon the honor system of EVERYBODY standing there waiting on the door’s slow ass hydraulic system to close before they dutifully use their key card to open it again instead of just walking right in. Because the AVERAGE person is going to catch it and walk right in rather than wait. Just like they stick their arms in the door to catch the elevator instead of not risking injury by waiting on the next car. Or the person walking in before them holds the door open out of simple courtesy! This type of thing happens ALL THE TIME! And if you aren’t in some sort of top secret, classified, James Bond 007 environment all day which a residential APARTMENT BUILDING most certainly is NOT ... you would know that. So I’m calling BS! Simple as that.

OAW
     
turtle777
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Jul 11, 2019, 01:40 AM
 
No, OAW, I call BS on your assertion that people let strangers into locked areas w/o asking questions.

It does not happen.

-t
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 11, 2019, 11:38 AM
 
Even at my non-CIA work, they tell us not to let strangers past the badge doors. Signs and everything. We have visitor spaces, public conference rooms, but also private spaces which require badge access.
     
OAW
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Jul 11, 2019, 01:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
No, OAW, I call BS on your assertion that people let strangers into locked areas w/o asking questions.

It does not happen.

-t
Well if I had actually made that assertion then I would agree with you. But I never said people "let strangers into locked areas w/o asking questions". What I actually said is that most residents don't stand there and wait on the door to close behind them when they are leaving. They could. But it's inconvenient so it's not common. Just like it's uncommon for a resident who is entering the building to always wait for the door to close so they can swipe their card. Again they could. But it's inconvenient so if they can catch the door they will. And that is what allows "tailgating" to occur because human nature is what it is. So if you want to avoid unnecessary confrontations between residents (as in the earlier STL situation) or between residents and non-residents (as in this SF situation) ... then put a doorman/security guard there to be the "challenger" in these situations because "tailgating" is bound to occur. Because many people ... black, white, male, female, or otherwise ... don't particularly appreciate being "questioned" or "interrogated" by random strangers who have no authority over them.

That being said, the issue isn't that Mr. Cukor "asked questions". That was a reasonable thing to do. The issue is that he called the police. And we don't know what led to the encounter becoming contentious because Mr. Michel only started recording after that had occurred. So this bears repeating ....

Originally Posted by OAW
And I'll bet you my next 3 paychecks Mr. Cukor has NEVER called the police on a white man for "tailgating"! Note above how he claimed he would "ASK any other person a SIMILAR QUESTION" ... NOT that he would "CALL THE POLICE on any other person in a similar situation."
And it speaks volumes that no one is contending with that fundamental point.

OAW
     
Laminar
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Jul 11, 2019, 02:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Even at my non-CIA work, they tell us not to let strangers past the badge doors. Signs and everything.
I've always had that told to me, but I've never seen it practiced. Maybe it's my midwestern nice-ness and penchant for holding doors, but to turn around and actively shut the door on someone approaching would make the "Iowa Nice" center of my brain explode.
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 11, 2019, 02:28 PM
 
Laminar,
Maybe it's my midwestern nice-ness and penchant for holding doors, but to turn around and actively shut the door on someone approaching would make the "Iowa Nice" center of my brain explode.
In my non-CIA environment, I will hold the door for a known coworker, but I have asked strangers where they are going and if they've signed in. (These inevitably are lost guests or people looking for the wrong conference room). It's awkward as heck. The "New England Avoid Awkwardness" center of my brain doesn't like it either but it's done. Where we get manipulated is into thinking that rulebreakers get a pass because we're too reluctant to cause a scene or be misinterpreted.

That being said, the issue isn't that Mr. Cukor "asked questions". That was a reasonable thing to do. The issue is that he called the police. And we don't know what led to the encounter becoming contentious because Mr. Michel only started recording after that had occurred. So this bears repeating ....
He called the police because Michel refused actually answer the questions, ie, to name his friend who lived in the building, use the call button, or leave the foyer. If Michel had done any of that instead of getting pissy, the situation is diffused. "Oh, my friend is Jim Smith," and Cukor would say, "ah, I know Jim, let me press his button here so he knows he has a guest. "

Also I take umbrage with you saying there was no bullying. Do not talk to other people's kids or reference them when you are being pissy. The kid was scared.
     
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Jul 11, 2019, 05:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I've always had that told to me, but I've never seen it practiced. Maybe it's my midwestern nice-ness and penchant for holding doors, but to turn around and actively shut the door on someone approaching would make the "Iowa Nice" center of my brain explode.
Exactly! Being from STL shutting the door on someone is just not something you do. It's simply considered .... rude. Now perhaps it's different in the larger urban centers?

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Jul 11, 2019 at 07:03 PM. )
     
OAW
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Jul 11, 2019, 06:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
He called the police because Michel refused actually answer the questions, ie, to name his friend who lived in the building, use the call button, or leave the foyer. If Michel had done any of that instead of getting pissy, the situation is diffused. "Oh, my friend is Jim Smith," and Cukor would say, "ah, I know Jim, let me press his button here so he knows he has a guest. "
But therein lies the rub. Mr. Michel wasn't obligated to answer the questions of Mr Cukor because he was just a random stranger. If it were a doorman/security guard that would be different. Look at it this way. My son is 21 years old. If he's in a grocery store and put a six-pack of beer in his cart does he have to answer to some random white person who walks up to him and demands that he prove he's old enough to purchase alcohol? Hell no! And if he told that person to "Kick rocks and mind your damned business!" he would be well within his rights to do so. Now if the person working the checkout line asked to see his ID ... that would be different. And that's the issue here. Random strangers emboldened by their "deputized whiteness" thinking they have the right to police people of color whenever and wherever they feel like it. Like these two old white women who had the audacity to tell the manager of a Burger King to "Go back to Mexico!" because he had the nerve ... the unmitigated gall I say ... to be speaking Spanish to his employee. Not only was the guy Puerto Rican which makes him a US citizen ... a fact that the current occupant of the White House and many of his supporters clearly don't seem to realize ... the real issue is that these white women felt entitled to be making such a demand on a person of color in his own place of business in the first place! But anyway I digress. With respect to this situation most people only know their immediate neighbors. They might recognize several beyond that. So the chances of Mr. Cukor actually being cognizant of who Mr. Michel's friend was is fairly slim in any decent sized apartment building. As evidenced by the fact that there was no sign on his face nor words that came out of his mouth which even remotely indicated that he recognized the lady when she showed up. And on top of that Mr. Michel already knew his friend wasn't home yet so pressing the button would have been a pointless exercise. But let's say for the sake of discussion that Mr. Michel had told Mr. Cukor that his friend was "Kathy [last name]" and he had no idea who she was. So then Mr. Michel presses the call box button knowing she wasn't home yet and there was no answer. Then what? Do you honestly believe the situation would have been "diffused"? And now let's keep it all the way real because again this gets to the crux of the issue. Did Mr. Cukor wait for Mr. Michel's friend to swipe her card to the building to "prove" she was actually a resident and thereby validate Mr. Michel's presence? Or was her "whiteness" sufficient reason for him to stand down and go about his business?

Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Also I take umbrage with you saying there was no bullying. Do not talk to other people's kids or reference them when you are being pissy. The kid was scared.
But the video shows that Mr. Michel actually never spoke to the kid. At all. As in not even a little bit. And the only time he even mentioned him was AFTER Mr. Cukor called the police and the kid started crying and pleading with his father to go and he said "Listen to your son." Indeed the kid was scared. But it wasn't from anything Mr. Michel did or said to him.

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Jul 11, 2019 at 07:15 PM. )
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 11, 2019, 07:24 PM
 
As a resident of a building, Cukor had more right to enforce his own building safety policy than nosy closeminded little old ladies in Burger King who are suspicious of spanish speakers. These are not similar cases. Nor is the 21 year old in a grocery store buying alcohol. In retail establishments sure the employee is the "authority." But not every case has an authority present. A security guard, a park ranger who can verify if indeed picnics are allowed, etc. In which case citizens are allowed, and supposed to, call authority/police to verify. Some people should rethink calling. Some of them should get over their petty selves. But we can't default to ignoring bad/potentially bad behavior just because we're scared of being trash talked on twitter.

Why would anyone try to wait for their friend inside the foyer if they know the friend is not home? Heat and rain don't prevail over security issues. And regardless of whether Kathy was white or not, having the story corroborated by anyone would be enough to diffuse. I didn't watch to the end to see if the friend swiped her card.

It would have been interesting if Kathy had reacted by asking Cukor if he actually lived in the building either... but then, presumably he has a key he can use as proof.

Michel said things like "do you want to be doing this in front of your son, listen to your son." Just don't.
     
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Jul 11, 2019, 08:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Why would anyone try to wait for their friend inside the foyer if they know the friend is not home? Heat and rain don't prevail over security issues.
Perhaps to avoid being hassled by the cops or or some other random white person for "loitering" outside the building? My point being Mr. Michel was likely to be questioned or have the cops called on him regardless of waiting inside or outside. Damned if you do ... damned if you don't. After all the first thing he said in the video is that he gets this all the time even in his own building! \_(ツ)_/¯

Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
And regardless of whether Kathy was white or not, having the story corroborated by anyone would be enough to diffuse. I didn't watch to the end to see if the friend swiped her card.
Well she didn't. We know she was white because we can see her hand in the video. Mr. Michel walked out of the building and down the sidewalk to help her because she was disabled. Mr. Cukor walked down the sidewalk behind him. He never interacted with Mr. Michel's friend at all. He gave no indication that he recognized her. He didn't ask her to "corroborate" Mr. Michel's story. And he certainly didn't wait for her to walk down the sidewalk and use her own swipe card. He said nothing to her at all. He just hung up from the cops and walked away after continuing to go back and forth with Mr. Michel even more. So for me at least the question then becomes ... on what basis was he suddenly so comfortable with standing down and going about his business?

Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
It would have been interesting if Kathy had reacted by asking Cukor if he actually lived in the building either... but then, presumably he has a key he can use as proof.
Agreed. That would have been very interesting. And surely he would have been able to prove that quickly by producing his key card. But again ... he never asked her to "prove" that she had a right to be there. Not even by producing her key card let alone using it. He only asked Mr. Michel to do so. And that right there is the issue.

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Jul 11, 2019 at 09:27 PM. )
     
el chupacabra
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Jul 12, 2019, 12:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Mr. Michel wasn't obligated to answer the questions of Mr Cukor because he was just a random stranger.
It's a condo. Mr. Cukor is literally a partial owner of the building. On top of that he's entering on this particular stranger's access. Not a random stranger. Michel is trespassing on Cukor's property & being a jerk about it, & your defending his sense of entitlement. I cant believe someone as intelligent as yourself would see this so twisted; as such an incredible act of racism...
if you want to avoid confrontations between residents and non-residents... then put a doorman/guard there to be the "challenger" in these situations
You really think it makes sense to hire 3 full time guards at San Francisco pay, just to neutralize the small chance a minority will have their feelings hurt because they dont want to follow simple rules? That would cost a minimum of $150k /yr. Thats a YUGE maintenance fee hike. Are people's easily triggered feelings really worth that much?
Did Mr. Cukor wait for Mr. Michel's friend to swipe her card to the building to "prove" she was actually a resident and thereby validate Mr. Michel's presence? Or was her "whiteness" sufficient reason for him to stand down and go about his business?
There was no reason to wait for her to key into the building. Michel exited the building as Cukor had asked, as he ran to Kathy, & the door closed & locked. Situation resolved. Obviously Michel's friend kathy cant get in now without her key since the door is closed & locked.
Perhaps to avoid being hassled by the cops or some other random white person for "loitering" outside the building? My point being Mr. Michel was likely to be questioned or have the cops called on him regardless of waiting inside or outside. Damned if you do ... damned if you don't.
I've had the cops called on me plenty of times for loitering & such. It's normal. I didnt like it but I gave my ID, explained myself nicely to the cops & didnt flip out. Such is life for most males. Just outa curiosity, have you frequently had the cops called on you?
After all the first thing he said in the video is that he gets this all the time even in his own building! \_(ツ)_/¯
Preconditioned persecution complex hear-say. Not verifiable facts. Not related to the story.
He gave no indication that he recognized her. He didn't ask her to "corroborate" Mr. Michel's story. And he certainly didn't wait for her to walk down the sidewalk and use her own swipe card. He said nothing to her at all. He just hung up from the cops and walked away after continuing to go back and forth with Mr. Michel even more. So for me at least the question then becomes ... on what basis was he suddenly so comfortable with standing down and going about his business?
You might want to watch the video again. He did interact with her. He asked her if this was her friend. He's talking to her but the audio is slipping because Michel is walking away from Cukor. It seems they knew each other.
But again ... he never asked her to "prove" that she had a right to be there. Not even by producing her key card let alone using it. He only asked Mr. Michel to do so. And that right there is the issue.
He didnt need to ask her to produce a key. When Kathy was in view, Michel ran to her, exiting the building, the door closed & locked. Situation's diffused. She & Michel cant get in now without a key. It seems Michel didnt even want to be in the building since he ran out when she arrived. He was just looking for confrontation so he could call racism & be felt sorry for. It seems many personality types actually have a human need - to be felt sorry for.

For what it's worth it's good this is blowing up in Cukor's face. He's a typical San Fran SJW blm sympathizer & such; so is his spoiled mouthy disrespectful kid as you can tell. Obviously taught by daddy. He needs more spankings. SJW's need to see the lack of disciplining of their kids backfire. SJW's are cannibalizing each other - as their hunger for hate & blaming is so strong it spills over from not just hating republicans, but even hating & blaming their own kind for their own personal insecurities. I also enjoyed reading the CNN article. I swear half of it was quoting & responding to the toddler's comments as if they're worth a grain of salt. But whats great about it is it's so exemplary of how low we've stooped as a society; where not only have we been emphasizing too much political respect to inexperienced sheltered people between the ages 18-24 who have no idea how the world works... but now we give mic time to toddlers... Thanks CNN for taking the bait & becoming more & more like twitter, the lowest of them all. It's amazing how it became national news that one SJW didnt hold the door for another SJW because racism. My favorite documentary is Idiocracy.
( Last edited by el chupacabra; Jul 12, 2019 at 12:59 AM. )
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 12, 2019, 03:35 PM
 
I was with you, right until the last SJW-laden paragraph.

But at least we both like Idiocracy.
     
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Jul 12, 2019, 06:23 PM
 
And so the plot thickens ....

Video of a San Francisco father calling the police on an African American man is the latest in a series of viral cellphone recordings that show people of color getting the police called on them in the Bay Area.

"You're just going to be the next person on TV," said San Francisco resident Wesly Michel, in a video he recorded on his cellphone outside a San Francisco condo building.

The recording shows building resident, Christopher Cukor, calling the police while his young son cries for him to stop.

Michel says he was at the Van Ness Avenue condo building for a July 4 barbecue with his friends.
ABC7 news reporter, Kate Larsen, caught up with Michel Tuesday night, who is surprised by the viral reaction to his video, "It actually shows how polarized people can be, just by looking at one video, there's two sides to the story."

Kate Larsen: "Do you think Christopher Cukor was being racist when he called the police?

Wesly Michel: "Well, I think that his actions show exactly what he felt at that time. But the best way to answer that is that my friend that was coming in, he never asked her for ID". Michel said "it would be educational" for him and Cukor to sit down and talk.

Originally Posted by Wesly Michel Full Statement
When I arrived at the address, I called my friend (who lives in the apartment ) to buzz me in. I buzzed the door multiple times to let me in, but the door wasn't working. I then called my other friend Kathy who would be soon arriving at the same location to get her ETA. She told me she was right around the corner, so I attempted again to have my friend who lives in the building to buzz me in. His apartment like many apartments in San Francisco require a fob key for both front door entry and use of elevator to work.

This time as I'm attempting to gain entry into the building, Chris is leaving the apartment complex with his son. As I'm entering the building he stops me and asks me do I live there. I tell him no I'm there visiting a friend for a 4th of July BBQ and I am waiting for another friend to arrive.

He then demands that I identify who I'm coming to visit and who I am waiting for. I tell him I don't have to do that and then he asks me to show him my ID. I tell him no and then he says he's going to call the police. That's when I asked him if that is his son. He doesn't answer and his son then stated that is indeed his dad, and his father now tell me there have been break-ins and robberies in the building. At this point I wouldn't mind just stepping outside and waiting, but he's persisting that I now verify I have a friend that lives here by punching in his code. When he mentions again that he would call the police that is when I took out my phone to record the incident. He called me a "trespasser" a "tailgater"and stated I threatened him and his son.

When the police arrived, he told them I threatened his life. I simply handed the police the video in hand and they told me I was free to go. I asked the officers to file for harassment and they told me there was nothing I can do. I felt powerless and decided to share my experience on my facebook - not to target his action but to share my experience on July 4th, as my friend were posting photos of them having fun at BBQ's.
Man who had police called on him in San Francisco while standing outside building speaks out | ABC 7 News

So let's unpack this shall we?
  • It was the 4th of July and Michel was there for a BBQ with friends.
  • Kathy wasn't the friend who lived in the building. The actual resident is apparently an unnamed male. She was just visiting for the BBQ just like Michel.
  • Michel did, in fact, attempt to use the security box multiple times but it it wasn't working.
  • Cukor leaves and Michel walks right inside the door and stands there to wait for Kathy. Michel doesn't attempt to go into the lobby of the building. He wouldn't be able to go upstairs anyway because the elevators require a FOB which he obviously doesn't have.
  • Cukor asks him if he lives there and Michel says no. He's visiting a friend for a BBQ and just waiting there for another friend (Kathy) to arrive. [Reasonable request. Michel complies.]
  • Cukor demands to know who the friend (the resident) is and Michel demurs. [Borderline but still OK.]
  • Cukor then demands to see Michel's ID. [Now see this right here is where it went off the rails! This guy is NOT a cop. And what difference would it have made if he had showed it to him? He still didn't live there! A prime example of "Deputized Whiteness".]
  • When Michel refuses to "show his papers" to Cukor he then threatens to call the police.
  • Cukor continues to insist that Michel punch his friend's code in the security box. Michel is already justifiably offended at this point AND knows that the security box isn't working.
  • Cukor threatens to call the police again.
  • Michel starts recording.
  • Cukor calls the police. Calls Michel a "trespasser". And falsely claims that Michel threatened him and his son.
  • It's not mentioned in this quote but in the video you hear Michel say sarcastically "I’m here to just rob, whatever, a mailbox,” loud enough so the police on the line can hear him because again he's just standing right inside the door where the mailboxes are apparently located.
  • Kathy arrives and Michel goes outside to help her because she's disabled.
  • Cukor never confirms she's a resident. Never asks who she's there to see. Certainly never demanded to see her ID.
  • The police arrive and Cukor straight up LIES to them and claims Michel threatened his life. Just like #BBQBecky. Michel hands over his video which proved otherwise and he was free to go.
  • Interestingly enough the police didn't even give Michel any trouble for his so-called "trespassing". Imagine that.
  • Cukor suffered no consequences for calling the police unecessarily nor for making a false claims when they arrived.

I'll wait for someone to explain to me how "Deputy" Cukor was in any way justified in demanding Michel show him his ID. And why Michel should not have been offended by that. And why it was OK for him to lie to the police and claim Michel threatened his life when even Stevie Wonder can see on the video that never happened.

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Jul 12, 2019 at 06:55 PM. )
     
turtle777
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Jul 13, 2019, 10:30 AM
 
Meh.

In short: one black and one white person both behave like idiots.

But amazingly, it’s only the fault of the white person, because he’s teh wacist.

-t
     
Laminar
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Jul 13, 2019, 03:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Meh.

In short: one black and one white person both behave like idiots.

But amazingly, it’s only the fault of the white person, because he’s teh wacist.

-t
If you ignore the entirely of the history of this country, then yes, you can come to that conclusion. If you take even the tiniest bit of context into account, it's not so cut and dry.
     
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Jul 13, 2019, 04:08 PM
 
^^^^

This.

OAW
     
turtle777
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Jul 13, 2019, 04:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
If you ignore the entirely of the history of this country, then yes, you can come to that conclusion. If you take even the tiniest bit of context into account, it's not so cut and dry.
So basically, you agree with me. You merely explained *why*, regardless of the facts of what happened today, it’s teh white wacists fault.

And by that, we are allowing people today to act like entitled idiots, and excuse it, because we all once were wacists.

-t
     
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Jul 13, 2019, 04:56 PM
 
^^^

Dude. You basically EQUATED Cukor CALLING THE POLICE on Michel for no justifiable reason and then LYING to them by claiming that he threatened his life with Michel being OFFENDED that Cukor demanded to see is ID and refused. When Cukor had no authority to do that. And THAT right there is why you are INCORRIGIBLE when it comes to these issues. Because you relish in embracing WILLFUL BLINDNESS with reckless abandon. As if the overwhelming majority of black people in this country have nothing better to do than just make shit up.

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turtle777
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Jul 13, 2019, 05:17 PM
 
Can you read ?

I said BOTH acted like idiots. Both made mistakes.
It’s not ONE SIDED as you try to portray it.

-t
     
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Jul 13, 2019, 06:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Can you read ?

I said BOTH acted like idiots. Both made mistakes.
It’s not ONE SIDED as you try to portray it.

-t
Indeed. I read exactly what you said. And apparently a black man refusing to show some random white dude in no position of authority his ID upon demand makes him an IDIOT in your estimation. Because that is what precipitated the cops being called. Got it. Apparently it’ll take you a bit longer to realize just how f*cked up that mindset is. If it ever actually occurs to you at all.

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Jul 13, 2019 at 07:22 PM. )
     
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Jul 13, 2019, 10:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
I swear half of it was quoting & responding to the toddler's comments as if they're worth a grain of salt.
When the president is a toddler, maybe the comments of any toddler are more valid than usual.

Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
My favorite documentary is Idiocracy.
It nails the stupid, but it left out the fourth reich.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
turtle777
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Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Indeed. I read exactly what you said. And apparently a black man refusing to show some random white dude in no position of authority his ID upon demand makes him an IDIOT in your estimation. Because that is what precipitated the cops being called. Got it. Apparently it’ll take you a bit longer to realize just how f*cked up that mindset is. If it ever actually occurs to you at all.

OAW


Right, that guy has done nothing wrong.

See, this is the problem - people not seeing their own shortcomings, and then blaming others for racism.

-t
     
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Jul 14, 2019, 07:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Why would anyone try to wait for their friend inside the foyer if they know the friend is not home? Heat and rain don't prevail over security issues.
If I thought my friend would or might be home soon, I would absolutely take an opportunity to slip into the foyer and sit down and wait. I think we all know that any white person doing that would likely be ignored too.
I guess security is more of an issue in the US where everyone is heavily armed though.


As for the kid, he starts out shy but if he's scared, its not of Michel. As the conversation goes on he quickly steps out from behind his dad and is all but positioned in between the two. Small children wary of threatening strangers will instinctively put a parent or friendly adult between themselves and the scary threat. He's upset out of embarrassment IMO because unlike his father he sees a non-threatening, eloquent adult doing nothing wrong and isn't scared of him just because he's black. Not a conclusion that many children of that age would consciously draw but that's all the more credit to him.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
OAW
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Jul 15, 2019, 11:41 AM
 
Being a cop while black.

An Ohio police officer in full uniform, you know, the uniform that clearly identifies him as a police officer and as such gives him reason to have a radio, taser, and gun, faced some scary and tense moments when a security guard pulled a gun on him and tried to arrest the POLICE OFFICER for carrying a gun.

According to ABC 13, Lucas County Sheriff’s deputy Alan Gaston stopped by a local IRS office on May 31 to ask a question about a letter he received. I don’t know if I mentioned this earlier but Gaston was in full uniform including his police badge and belt and his police-issued holster that housed his police-issued gun.

Gaston was on duty and trying to get a phone number when he came very close to losing his life. See, this is America and Gaston is a black man.

Full stop.

That’s it.

That’s the crime.

Didn’t matter that he was in a police uniform. How did the guard Seth Eklund aka “Paul Blart” know that Gaston hadn’t stolen it? How was Blart to know that Gaston was an actual officer? Sure he was wearing an officer’s uniform but don’t they sell those around Halloween? And yes he had a badge, but was that an official police badge?

Gaston told ABC 13 that Blart asked him to leave his gun in his car and Gaston informed the fake cop that as a real cop he can’t do that. That’s when Blart drew his weapon and the conversation ended. Gaston left the office.

“Basically preparing myself to be shot at that moment. Bracing for a shot in my back,” Gaston told the news station.

Luckily for Gaston, the entire debacle was caught on tape. Blart can be seen following the actual cop into the hallway with his gun drawn trying to take Gaston into custody.

“There’s really no way to know how you’re going to act when there’s a gun pointed at you and when you think you’re going to lose your life,” said Gaston.

Gaston, who works with the police department as a defensive tactics instructor, says that he kept trying to de-escalate the situation by walking away.

And here is where this already bizarre case takes an even more bizarre turn. Someone called the police and said that there is a man with a gun that he won’t relinquish but conveniently forgot to mention that the man with the gun is a uniformed deputy sheriff!


Gaston told the news station that while he was concerned for his own safety he was also worried about the other people in the building who may be hit if this crazed fake cop began firing.

“If I’m going to get shot, like I thought I was, it’s not fair. [Civilians] came in there to do their business,” said Gaston.

Gaston and his wife have filed a civil lawsuit against Eklund “and the security company seeking compensation after Gaston allegedly suffered emotional and psychological distress and lost wages.”

“I would say ‘Clearly your training is lacking and the fact that you went 0 to 100. Lethal force is unacceptable,” said Gaston who is currently on medical leave from his job as an actual cop.

Eklund is facing one charge of aggravated menacing and is set to be in court next week.

Watch the horrific incident below.
Watch: White Security Guard Pulls Gun on Black Cop in Full Uniform Because the Black Cop Had a Gun | TheRoot.com

OAW
     
Laminar
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Jul 15, 2019, 01:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post


Right, that guy has done nothing wrong.

See, this is the problem - people not seeing their own shortcomings, and then blaming others for racism.

-t
No, the problem is dumb people that need to see situations as binary.
     
OAW
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Jul 23, 2019, 04:47 PM
 
Proposing While Black.

If this New York couple’s story is true (it’s totally true because you already know we can’t have anything nice) then add proposing in a scenic location to the list of things we can’t do while black.

According to NBC News, on Sunday, Cathy-Marie Hamlet said her fiancé, Clyde Jackson, left New York City to head to Walden, N.Y., to celebrate Jackson’s birthday at the Angry Orchard farm. What Hamlet didn’t know was that Jackson had planned on proposing and what she really didn’t know was that some overzealous and possibly racial-profiling security guards were going to try their damndest to f*ck it all up.

In a lengthy Facebook post, Hamlet explained that shortly after arriving at the farm, the couple sat at a table near the orchard’s gift shop. A female security guard walked over and accused Jackson of stealing a T-shirt. She also asked to check his back pocket because of course a T-shirt could fit in a back pocket. (To be fair, this T-shirt could’ve been a half shirt with no sleeves and no collar and it could’ve been made to fit the world’s smallest stuffed animal.)

Instead of telling the woman to f*ck off, Jackson obliged.


“My boyfriend then emptied all of his pockets, while still trying to keep the ring box hidden from my sight,” Hamlet told NBC News. “She then walked away, and my boyfriend and I sat down at the table and he began his proposal speech.” OAW: That's one.

This woman, this guarder of infant-sized half shirts for stuffed animals, just wouldn’t let it die.

“She came back over to us and said, ‘Now I need to search your purse,’” Hamlet said. “My bag was small and I couldn’t have fit a T-shirt in it, but I emptied the contents of my purse anyway.” OAW: That's two.

Hamlet now realizing that these interruptions had gone from being a nuisance to possibly something a bit more sinister after she asked the woman why she kept asking them about a missing stuffed-animal thot shirt.

“I told her that I knew she was just doing her job, but I couldn’t help but wonder if she kept coming up to us because we’re black,” Hamlet said. “We were the only black people there, besides three of the friends who came along with us.”

The security guarder of the smallest shirts sold at the orchard denied approaching them because they were black and returned to the store.

Finally, with the security guard away from them, Jackson was able to propose and Hamlet accepted. All of the friends began celebrating.

And then, the security guard returned.

“She said, ‘I’m sorry, I didn’t realize you were all part of the same party. I have to check all of your purses and pockets,’” Hamlet said. “At this point, five other security guards came over. OAW: That's three.

“I felt humiliated, especially after one of my white friends made a point of asking them to check her bag for the T-shirt, but they refused to do so,” Hamlet said. OAW: That's four.

So let’s take a step back, shall we, just to process everything that has happened.

Black couple and friends drive out to an orchard for a day of fun and surprise proposal. White security guard believes that they have stolen a T-shirt, which must be so small that if could fit in a man’s back pocket or a woman’s tiny purse. After proving that they didn’t have the T-shirt, the white security officer won’t let it go and then approaches with a crew to ask that the guests of the couple also be searched except for the white friend because...well...Trump’s America (“Trump’s America” is the phrase I use when I can’t explain something that feels really racist but I don’t want to go to writer jail for calling someone racist when I don’t know if they are, in fact, racist.)

Feels mad racist-y.

NBC News notes that one security guard told another to call their cousins, aka the police, and that’s when Hamlet knew that they needed to get out of there and not because they stole a baby-sized tube top but because the police were coming and we all know how that could end.

“It started to get confrontational and I wasn’t interested in waiting around for the police because we didn’t know what would happen,” Hamlet told NBC News.


Hamlet added that the security guards took photos of the group and their license plates because the toddler dickie was made of Gucci diamonds soaked in Yves Saint Laurent caviar, unicorn fur and ancient fairy tears.

Taylor Roy, a senior communications specialist at Boston Beer Company, which owns Angry Orchards, told NBC News that they reached out to the couple “to try to make things right and prevent something like this from happening again.”

Roy said that although the interaction was “based on what the security guards thought was a credible claim, it was mishandled” and the company will be conducting additional training for its staff.

And this is where a white woman’s word means more than an empty back pocket and a purse too small to house a T-shirt. At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if the guard went to her bosses and argued that the couple were magicians. OAW: Credible claim? WTF????

Hamlet left the orchard crying and not because she was engaged.

“If you don’t want black people buying your product or frequenting your establishment, then maybe put a sign on the door so that we know we are not welcome,” she wrote directly to the orchard in her Facebook missive. “I love hard cider, but Angry Orchard will never touch these lips again.”

Hamlet said what was supposed to be a joyous occasion was ruined.


“I feel confused and conflicted over what to do now and how to move forward, that one of the happiest moments of my life could be partially overshadowed like this,” Hamlet told NBC News. “It’s sad that in 2019 we still need to have these conversations.”
#ProposingWhileBlack: Couple Says They Had Proposal Interrupted by Security Guards Who Accused Them of Stealing | TheRoot.com

OAW
     
Thorzdad
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Aug 17, 2019, 02:38 PM
 
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reader50
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Aug 17, 2019, 11:32 PM
 
So asking for money is the same as trying to steal money? Her explanation is going to be interesting.
     
andi*pandi
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Aug 18, 2019, 10:52 AM
 
If she was so paranoid she should not have opened the door. Poor kids.
     
OAW
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Aug 27, 2019, 01:34 PM
 
#AtHomeWhileBlack

Direct link to video:

A North Carolina man says he was humiliated and thought he was going to be killed when police dragged him out of his house wearing only his boxers after his home security alarm was tripped accidentally.

“This was one of the most humiliating experiences of my life,” Kazeem Oyeneyin of Raleigh, N.C., told WTVD.

Oyeneyin, a club and party promoter known as “Tim Boss,” told the station he had just deactivated the alarm and was trying to return to sleep about noon Aug. 17, when cops arrived, demanding that whoever was inside show himself.

Oyeneyin went downstairs to investigate all the ruckus—armed with the gun he is licensed to carry—and was confronted by police who demanded to know what he was doing in his own the home.

His front door was unlocked—presumably due to a friend of Oyeneyin, whom he says accidentally tripped the alarm while leaving—and a police officer was entering his home.


“All I heard was somebody screaming downstairs,” Oyeneyin told the station. “So I grab my firearm because I don’t know what’s going on. And I run down the stairs and it’s a cop.”

Typically, as WTVD notes, when a home alarm goes off accidentally and police arrive, officers ask the homeowner for ID and then leave. Maybe there’s a fine for wasting cops’ time.

But that wasn’t what appears to have happened in Oyeneyin’s case. According to surveillance footage from inside his house aired by WTVD, officers don’t ask for ID:

Instead, more officers arrive, and Oyeneyin gets pushed up against a wall in his entryway and handcuffed before police force the barely dressed man outside. All this despite his protests that the home is his and that he had just spoken with the alarm company.


Now, Raleigh PD says it is investigating the incident.

But the whole thing has left a bad #AtHomeWhileBlack taste in Oyeneyin’s mouth.

“I was counting the seconds, because I thought he was going to kill me,” Oyeneyin said, according to the Washington Post, citing ABC News. “He was shaking the gun. All he has to do is slip and hit that trigger and I’m dead.”

“Being black could definitely be one the issues, the problem,” he told WTVD. “I hope it’s not. But if that’s what it is, it needs to be resolved.”
#AtHomeWhileBlack: Police Drag Black North Carolina Homeowner From His Own House After False Alarm | TheRoot.com

OAW
     
Thorzdad
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Aug 27, 2019, 03:51 PM
 
Policing is a hard job...
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reader50
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Aug 27, 2019, 03:58 PM
 
You'd think cities would get tired of paying off all the lawsuits. That's certainly where this is going, if Kazeem has any sense.
     
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Sep 22, 2019, 01:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
See here for a video by a neighbor in the same apartment complex who is disputing "Officer" Guyger's account that Mr. Jean's door was "slightly ajar". Apparently all the apartment doors automatically shut on their own. There's no way for it to have been ajar unless one props it open with an object. Which would explain why the neighbors said they heard banging on his door.
A further update. Murder trial about to begin.
Testimony is to begin on Monday in the trial of a former Dallas police officer who claims she killed an unarmed black man after entering his apartment by mistake.
It sounds like the question of whether the door was locked hasn't been established yet. Which could be important.
     
Thorzdad
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Sep 22, 2019, 01:27 PM
 
Maybe. There’s also the question of how she missed the big red door mat outside the door, though.
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Thorzdad
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Oct 1, 2019, 04:17 PM
 
When I want your opinion,-
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OAW
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Oct 1, 2019, 07:40 PM
 
^^^

Truly shocking. Especially after the judge inexplicably allowed a "castle doctrine" defense when she wasn't even in her own home.

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Thorzdad
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Oct 1, 2019, 07:57 PM
 
Yeah, I was shocked a Texas jury came back with a murder verdict. I figured, if they convicted at all, it was going to be manslaughter. I wasn’t sure they would convict. And, yeah, that judge really did shamelessly go out of the way to give the jury all kinds of “don’t convict the cop” options.
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OreoCookie
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Oct 1, 2019, 08:39 PM
 
Same here, yesterday I read the judge allowed the Castle Doctrine to be used in this instance, and this morning I read the jury found her guilty. Honestly, this shouldn't feel special, this should be the expected outcome under these circumstances.
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