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You are here: MacNN Forums > Enthusiast Zone > Networking > AirPort Express to extend 5 GHz TC (n) network?

AirPort Express to extend 5 GHz TC (n) network?
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sra
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Aug 14, 2008, 03:50 PM
 
My new Time Capsule seems to work fine to provide an 802.11n network for the machines in my house. However, I found that when I set it to run on the 5 GHz band, I can't get a usable signal on the MacBook Pro in my study a few rooms away. On 2.4 GHz, the signal is adequate, but not on 5 GHz.

With my previous (Snow base station) b/g network, I also had a weak signal in that room, and I used an (old b/g only) AirPort Express to extend the network. I'd like to do the same thing now, with a new n-capable Express. But I've read various places that using the Express to extend an existing network does not work reliably. Before I shell out another $100, can someone who has tried this confirm or disconfirm that report?

Thanks.
     
mduell
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Aug 14, 2008, 10:17 PM
 
5.8Ghz doesn't penetrate walls as well as 2.4Ghz.

Using airports to wirelessly extend airport networks doesn't work reliably; it works OK if you can wire all the base stations.
     
Simon
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Aug 15, 2008, 02:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
5.8Ghz doesn't penetrate walls as well as 2.4Ghz.
802.11a and 802.11n use 5.0 GHz, not 5.8 GHz.

I agree with the rest of the statement though. If you can wire your AP base stations you'll get much better results. WDS does work but it is not as reliable as wired connections and you pay a bandwidth penalty (especially when you cascade several WDS relays).

If I were you I'd only go the WDS route if you absolutely cannot wire the remote station. Some people on this board have even gone so far as to use power line networking just to connect a remote station. That's not cheap, but at 200 Mbps more than sufficient enough for an n network.

And a final piece of advice, the Express simply isn't as strong as the Extreme. Even as a WDS remote the Extreme will offer better performance than the Express due to its better radio and antennas. So if you're worried about signal strength I would go for an Extreme unless money is a big issue.
     
mduell
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Aug 15, 2008, 03:58 AM
 
5Ghz doesn't penetrate walls as well as 2.4Ghz.
     
ghporter
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Aug 15, 2008, 09:17 AM
 
Frequency specifics aside, beyond about 2.0GHz, you start losing RF to materials like wood and wallboard. The higher the frequency, the more loss to such materials. So the great advantage of N in the 5.0GHz range is really only "great" if you're talking about a wide open space. In my house, my network hardware is in a room in the front of the house; if I moved up to N at 5.0GHz, I don't think I'd get the range that manufacturers boast about because of the internal walls between where the router would go and where I'd connect wirelessly. It's a big and unpleasant tradeoff.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
sra  (op)
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Aug 15, 2008, 09:42 AM
 
Thanks for the information. Since there's no possibility of a wired connection from the Time Capsule to another base station significantly closer to my study, I guess I'll just make do with the 2.4 GHz network.
The reason I would prefer 5 GHz, of course, is that the higher bandwidth would make wireless Time Machine backups to the TC from the MBP in the study more reasonable (especially with two other machines in the house doing the same thing), but I do have an external drive I can connect to the MBP for that purpose instead.
     
dPeace
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Sep 18, 2008, 11:20 AM
 
Ok, let me first say, I'm no expert at networking but let me tell you something I noticed about 802.11n 5 GHz setting on the Airport Extreme/Time Capsule.

In an effort to speed up painfully slow wireless backups, I found a copy program at Stanford U called bbcp that gives file transfer throughput rates (http://www.slac.stanford.edu/~abh/bbcp/) and "tested" transfer rates for different Airport Extreme Base Station Wireless settings. Mind you, I did this with my airport extreme/timecapsule sitting next to my MacBook Pro.

The size/type of file I was transferring is a 298.6 MB MPEG 4 file.

Here's what I found:

802.11n 2.4GHz/Auto Channel Select - approx. 5,000 Kb/s
802.11a/(GHz not indicated)/Auto (only choice) - approx. 2,500 Kb/s
802.11n 5GHz/Auto (only choice) - approx. 3,000 Kb/s

That's right! I consistently found 802.11n/5 GHz to result in SLOWER file transfers and 802.11n/2.4 GHz was consistently faster.

Can anyone else confirm this? Or tell me why this is when everyone is saying the 5GHz should result in faster transfers.

dPeace
( Last edited by dPeace; Sep 18, 2008 at 11:40 AM. Reason: Left out some information)
     
dPeace
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Sep 18, 2008, 11:44 AM
 
Got higher throughput for 802.11n 5GHz after resetting my MacBook Pro and the Airport Extreme. Rates were around 7,700 KB/s. That's much better! I recommend testing to see if you are getting the best performance.

I also ran the same test connected by Ethernet to the AirPort Extreme/Time Capsule: approx. 10,000 KB/s. I would have expected much faster as I doubt I would be hitting the limits of the speed of the TimeCapsule's internal drive.

dPeace.


Originally Posted by dPeace View Post
Ok, let me first say, I'm no expert at networking but let me tell you something I noticed about 802.11n 5 GHz setting on the Airport Extreme/Time Capsule.

In an effort to speed up painfully slow wireless backups, I found a copy program at Stanford U called bbcp that gives file transfer throughput rates (http://www.slac.stanford.edu/~abh/bbcp/) and "tested" transfer rates for different Airport Extreme Base Station Wireless settings. Mind you, I did this with my airport extreme/timecapsule sitting next to my MacBook Pro.

The size/type of file I was transferring is a 298.6 MB MPEG 4 file.

Here's what I found:

802.11n 2.4GHz/Auto Channel Select - approx. 5,000 KB/s
802.11a/(GHz not indicated)/Auto (only choice) - approx. 2,500 KB/s
802.11n 5GHz/Auto (only choice) - approx. 3,000 KB/s

That's right! I consistently found 802.11n/5 GHz to result in SLOWER file transfers and 802.11n/2.4 GHz was consistently faster.

Can anyone else confirm this? Or tell me why this is when everyone is saying the 5GHz should result in faster transfers.

dPeace
( Last edited by dPeace; Sep 18, 2008 at 02:05 PM. Reason: added information)
     
MikeNN
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Sep 18, 2008, 02:00 PM
 
Retry your test with your AirPort in the next room or across a larger room. Your results will change in ways you wouldn't expect. Being right on top of your AirPort actually hinders your connection speed.
     
dPeace
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Sep 19, 2008, 09:55 AM
 
I did retry and I found it to be slightly faster. However, I am noticing my connection speed dropping back to the 2,500 KB/s at times. So far a reboot of my MacBook gets things back up to speed.

That's all I know so far. Not sure what causes this, but will be testing it out when I have more time.

dPeace.
     
   
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