[Skypat]

Hi

I will certainely order a new dual 867 by the end of this month. I have currently a cube 500 mhz.

I would like to read experiences from other dual 867 owners : are you satisfied, is the machine significantly faster than the one you had, etc.

I will be using my dual for browsing the web, editing family movies, handle all my digital pictures (just bought a new camera so there's gonna be a lot !) and handle my music library on itunes. I also would like to explore some photoshop (elements) and other graphic programs (as an amateur).

Thank you (as usual) for all you comments

[Superchicken]

do you care about the noise?
I heard many cube owners hate the noise of the new machines.
You might like a 1Ghz upgrade from powerlogix or a dual 800Mhz one they're significantly cheaper, and they'll fit in your cube

[sideus]

I purchased the dual 867 to replace my 400MHz Gigabit. The speed difference blew me away. I couldn't believe how fast OS X ran. The bootup time is significatly faster than my P4 1.7GHz machine running WinXP. The fan noise does not bother me much, but that is probably because the G4 sits under my desk. You won't be disappointed.

[derekn]

I'd say go for it. I got a dual 867 to replace my Beige G3, the speed difference to me at least was amazing. Startup in about 40 seconds maybe from power button to the desktop fully loaded. The noise level to me is VERY acceptable. I've never worked with a Cube long enough to fully experience the lack of a fan but this G4 is actually about as loud as my Beige. I've been running it for about 8 days now and I can't even tell a difference, their noise levels are VERY similar. Except when I put the G4 to sleep, it's as silent as can be, the pulsating power light is kind of soothing when I go to bed. LOL

When I first saw the specs of the new PowerMacs, I was a little disappointed to say the least. Using it at CompUSA and then getting my own, my opinion has turned around a full 180 degrees. These systems are NOT slackers or anything by any means. The speed boost from the dual processors is just what was needed, the price points are good, the feature set is good. The one big advantage with these current systems (at least for me) is they are likely to be the last OS 9 booting PowerMacs. I have no reason to go back to 9 personally but just in case, it is there if I need it.

Get the dual 867, get as much RAM as you can get (free if at all possible) and don't look back.

Here are some pics if you want to check it out:
http://homepage.mac.com/derekn/PhotoAlbum6.html

[driven]

I too was considering this route.

The problem was that the only way for me to upgrade would have been to sell my cube. I decided that I didn't want to part with it just yet. So ... I'm upgrading the cube.

Currently this is what I have:

Cube 500 w/ DVD
896MB RAM
80 GB Western-Digital HDD w/ 8MB cache
External 30GB Firewire Hard Disk (the old internal drive!)
External Firewire 48x CD-RW
Soundsticks!
17" LCD

Next (and final Cube update) will be the PowerLogix Dual 800's. (I'll order once they start shitting.)

Yes ... I'll get one of the new Duals .. but I'm trying to hold off until next summer. (Save some $$$$ if you know what I mean.)

They ARE nice machines though. But, as others have mentioned, check out the noise levels.

[tomra]

I�ve had my dual 867 since 6th and i`m very pleased with it. I do find it a bit noisy and it`s certainly a lot more noisy than my older PCI G4, but i can live with it for now. Performance wise it`s a killer compared to what i was used to. In OSX i can just throw "everything" at it and it does`nt slow down a bit...very smooth

Not experienced any unstability hardware wise nor with the bundled software. I also got the GF4Ti card, but have not tried any of the other alternatives, so i don`t know how i compares, but openGL performance with 3D applications is very good. Screenredraw keeps smooth even at more complex stuff. I don`t do any gaming, so i don`t know about that aspect.

I have no problems with recommending this machine. It`s very powerfull

[Macpilot]

I love my dual 867. It does seem noisier than my old G4 400 tower, but it does not bother me. The speed advantage is obvious when you start dealing with OS X.

[Skypat]

Well, Superchicken, the silence of the cube is a myth I mean there is no fan, that's true, but the HD is there and it is noisy. My cube is just next to my screen and sometimes the sound bothers me a little.

I will put my tower under my desk. I won't even try to put it next to my monitor
I can't wait to feel the difference in terms of speed ... Actualy I was a little reserved because I remember when I upgraded from a Power Mac G3 350 to my G4 cube 500, I didn't feel a huge difference, except in iMovie (video more fluid). I hope I will feel a bigger difference this time (from my Cube to this DP 867) I'll tell you

[slapdash]

Originally posted by Skypat:
Well, Superchicken, the silence of the cube is a myth I mean there is no fan, that's true, but the HD is there and it is noisy. My cube is just next to my screen and sometimes the sound bothers me a little.

I will put my tower under my desk. I won't even try to put it next to my monitor
I can't wait to feel the difference in terms of speed ... Actualy I was a little reserved because I remember when I upgraded from a Power Mac G3 350 to my G4 cube 500, I didn't feel a huge difference, except in iMovie (video more fluid). I hope I will feel a bigger difference this time (from my Cube to this DP 867) I'll tell you

When I upgraded from my BW 400 G3 to a Powerbook G4 Ti I didn't notice much of a speed increase. But going from the PBG4 to my Dual 867 is like the difference between night and day...huge performance increase.

Point is, I think you'll be extremely happy. Just make sure you buy some extra RAM (www.crucial.com).

[BrunoBruin]

Skypat, I have a 450 Cube at home and a dual-867 at work, and trust me, you will notice a big difference in speed. The 867 is MUCH faster than my old work dual-450, especially in application opening, and as for the poor single-processor Cube, with its 100MHz bus and no L3 cache, well...

The noise on my 867 does not seem significantly louder than my old 450, except at startup when it is REALLY loud until the fans kick down. It's a higher-pitched sound but it doesn't bother me, and I have the tower on my desk about two feet from me.

[jcadam]

Originally posted by derekn:
I'd say go for it. I got a dual 867 to replace my Beige G3, the speed difference to me at least was amazing. Startup in about 40 seconds maybe from power button to the desktop fully loaded. The noise level to me is VERY acceptable. I've never worked with a Cube long enough to fully experience the lack of a fan but this G4 is actually about as loud as my Beige. I've been running it for about 8 days now and I can't even tell a difference, their noise levels are VERY similar. Except when I put the G4 to sleep, it's as silent as can be, the pulsating power light is kind of soothing when I go to bed. LOL

When I first saw the specs of the new PowerMacs, I was a little disappointed to say the least. Using it at CompUSA and then getting my own, my opinion has turned around a full 180 degrees. These systems are NOT slackers or anything by any means. The speed boost from the dual processors is just what was needed, the price points are good, the feature set is good. The one big advantage with these current systems (at least for me) is they are likely to be the last OS 9 booting PowerMacs. I have no reason to go back to 9 personally but just in case, it is there if I need it.

Get the dual 867, get as much RAM as you can get (free if at all possible) and don't look back.

Here are some pics if you want to check it out:
http://homepage.mac.com/derekn/PhotoAlbum6.html

Perhaps, the new macs in 2003 will not boot OS9 because they will be based on a new processor that will not be truly 100% PowerPC compatible (like, say an IBM Power4). In this case, I would imagine OS X being updated for the new processor but OS 9 not (it would still run on top of a PowerPC emulator which would run in OS X, so we keep Classic mode). Pure speculation.

Anyways, back on topic, I am pleased with my DP 867Mhz. I upped the Ram to 1.25GB. MUCH faster than the B&W G3 550mhz/768MB/Radeon mac it replaces.
I only got the Geforce4mx vid card and now am looking for a new one (I would get the Radeon 9000 Pro, at least).

[Jaspero1]

I like it. It is the same price as the old 900MHz Quicksilver, but a dual Processor.

[derekn]

Originally posted by jcadam:

Anyways, back on topic, I am pleased with my DP 867Mhz. I upped the Ram to 1.25GB. MUCH faster than the B&W G3 550mhz/768MB/Radeon mac it replaces.
I only got the Geforce4mx vid card and now am looking for a new one (I would get the Radeon 9000 Pro, at least).

You could go for a Radeon 8500, if you trade in that GeForce 4 you can get it for $149. The GeForce 4 is no slacker though, I knew Medal of Honor, Max Payne etc would run better, I had no idea how well though. There are some freezes in the games still but nothing like it used to be.

I love this system.

[Johnnyboysmac]

Hi Skypat,

This is a little off topic, I hope you'll excuse me, but I'm achingly curious.

A couple of weeks back, I wrote in asking about some advice re purchasing either the new 'mirror mac' 867, or the new 17"Imac, and you were one of the people who was so kind to write in with some helpful and thoughtful advice.

Needless to say, I'm still saving, waiting, and vacillating :-))

I'm intrigued, as your needs as you describe them, virtually mirror my own. As you stated in your reply to my queries at the time, that you were tossing up between the 867, or waiting for the impending upgrade to the Imac - 1Ghz, and 133mhz system bus were the figures I remember you hoping for - what finally swung it for you with the tower?

Would I be right in assuming that the Imac would 'do' all that you need powerwise, but more is always nicer, especially when dealing with large photo collections. I must admit, being very experienced in film, but not digital photography, it does appear nonetheless that as even still cameras up the performance stakes, 6 megapixels plus etc, high quality images result in large file sizes, so I guess the dualie would have a definite edge manipulating, editing, storing those larger file sizes.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here. I too love my photography, and the thought of waiting heaps all the time with a 'slow' computer for things to happen, galls me, and in that context the dualie becomes most attractive, as I THINK it would have considerable advantages over the IMac/Cube in that one performance area that would be of use to me, and by the sounds of it, to you as well with your extensive photo collection.

Lastly, as a cube owner, and by the sounds of it, sensitive to noise, as am I, how do you intend to get around the noise issue? Personally, I really want the performance of the tower, but at the moment anyway, I just can't get my head around the thought of the noise. And for me, being in a hot climate in summer (Australia) and with no air-con in the apartment, heat output is another issue with the tower as well.

Anyway, enough of me, just very curious to know your thoughts/reasons for eventually deciding on a tower, knowing that you will have been giving it a lot of thought, as have I. Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but was just dying to ask.

Keep us all informed as to how you go with it!

Cheers,

Johnnyboy

[Skypat]

Hi Johnnyboy thanks for your message !

Yes, I finally made up my mind and decided to go for a tower.

The first reason is my interest into pictures. I bought last month my first digital camera (a 5 mega pixel one). This means I'm gonna have a lot of pictures to store, to watch, to correct, to play with ... in the coming months/years. Those pictures are heavy. Today iPhoto is very slow with more than 1200 pictures and 98% of them were taken by a 3 meg pixel camera (my father's). So manipulating those images will be easier on a dual processor with a faster hard drive (7200 rpm).

Second reason : the only tower that interested me was the dual 1ghz. But it was just above my budget. Then I saw the barefeats.com test of the dual 867 and realized how thin was the difference between the 2 systems. No doubt : the dual 867 seems to be an excellent computer.

Third reason : I went to a computer store and saw the 17 inch iMac. I have been disapointed by the size of the screen. It looked like a 15" widescreen to me. BUT I must admit, the screen wasn't lit. The computer was turned of so i haven't been able to see it working.

So I realized that I could buy a dual 867, add some more RAM, change the hard drive to 80 GB, change the CD to a DVD R drive. All this for a little less than the new iMac. And, big argument, I can have it NOW. Don't need to wait for an iMac's upgrade. Of course I will have to stay with my 17" CRT ... but I hope to change it next year ;-)

I hope to have my new tower within 2 weeks. What about you ?

[mr. natural]

I love my new 867.

I had a 450 DP and this new 867 with a GeForce 4 Ti is smooth and fast.

The fan is a tad louder, especially when it kicks into high gear (not often), but it isn't annoying at all - especially now that I'm piping music through my stereo into my KEF reference speakers from the G4. It's a blast

[Johnnyboysmac]

Hey Skypat, great to hear of your most reasoned thoughts. Me, well I feel like a pair of scales, up and down, Imac/867 etc, etc, but I think the weight is coming down more and more with the tower.

I'm a realtive newbie to computing, hence all my odd angle questions I guess. I did an elementary intro style course mid last year, and had the opportunity to get a 2nd hand P11 PC about Dec last year at a price to good to pass by. So I thought this'll be a good starting place. Well, I've never really liked PC's that much, and owning one has simply reinforced that view, and everytme I play with a Mac, I want it bad. So I've decided that my next 'new' machine will be a Mac. The OS, better/more intuitive interface, stability, aesthetics of the hardware, best platform for graphics etc, all being contributing reasons.

I've looked/played with the 17" Imac, and in a word, I love it. Real heart thing. The screens great, it looks really cool, and I love the idea of all the iphoto/itunes apps etc.

But I'm also practical, and I guess somewhere between young and old re age, life experience, committments, and other interests etc. In fact, computing is really my latest interest, music, photography, and Home Theatre, have been there a lot earlier, and have a slightly greater influence on my spending desires.

The thing with the Imac is that it is a beautiful/ergonomic piece of industrial design, and will do everything I need FOR NOW. If my needs never increase, as in becomming more intensive, and loading the system more, and I don't always upgrade to the latest software/demands etc, then I should have it for a long time.

BUT, one of the first things I'll be saving for, once I've got it,(MAC) and one of the principle reasons for wanting a new computer, and a Mac at that, is to get either a new digital SLR(Nikon D100), and/or F5, plus a dedicated slide scanner to input my existing collection of many hundreds of 35mm transparencies.

I don't know a lot about digital photography, but it strikes me that high quality camers like the D100, or D1 Nikons, and the Canons etc, when used in their highest resolution modes, produce very large file sizes indeed. I'm guessing, but I should imagine, this would affect not only programs like photshop elements, which I'd like to get into, but actual iphoto as well, re the storing/organizing of so many images.

I can't but help think that the tower would handle this task better, but also, even more so as I develop more with this side of computing, ie it gives me room to 'grow' into it, whereas the Imac doesn't to the same degree. So initial processing power, and that power producing a better workflow initially, and for a great deal longer than the Imac are compelling reasons for the tower.

Lastly, longevity. I don't see myself as being in the position of upgrading a computer every couple of years, and nice as they are, I can't see a 17" Imac being much 'chop' computing wise in say, 4 yrs time, unless one's needs remain fairly modest, and you don't expect to run the latest software. Whereas the tower, with suitable upgrades, could have a much longer service life, whilst still staying reasonably abreast of expanding software demands in the future.

My 2nd hand P11, is around 3yrs old, I'm running win98SE, have just about every browser available on it, ditto email clients, chat clients, music players etc,etc, lots of freeware basically. Already, with a 266mhz proccessor, it's getting near it's limits in terms of what it can run, re software, and things like XP are simply a no go. Similarly, a 3 yr old Imac, would run OSX, but with an G3 processor, arguably not very efficiently, unless you're doing very basic things, and don't mind spending lots of time, waiting for things to happen IMHO. Whereas a tower, whilst still not cutting edge, would most likely make a better 'meal' of things, due it's intrinsic higher performance.

Lastly (funny, I said that a couple of paragraphs ago
) the noise/heat question.

It is simply the biggest headache, and the biggest impediment re my purchasing the tower. I would appreciate hearing how you get on with this issue once you get the tower, as you are coming from a cube, and are bound to be sensitive to noise, as am I. The only thing I've been able to think of up to now, is an extension ADC cable, and site the tower at the other end of the room, or just as far away from it as I can get!

I guess that's where half the appeal is with the Imac, it's so cute, and quiet, small and neat, but, hey, performance is perfomance! So it's looking like the tower. Fortunately, I'll have time to ponder some more, as I can't afford it (just yet) unless I stick with my CRT display, and I've decided not to do that. So I'm going to keep my current $$ in my pocket, and try not to lash out at getting the Imac everytime I see one, and wait and save the extra for the tower, and a nice Studio Display - I'm hoping for either a redesigned widescreen 17, or 19" model buy the time I'm ready to purchase. Anyway, sorry about the long post, but it's great to be here. Hope to hear how you deal with the noise issue. I figure you won't be into trying to change fans and stuff. I certainly won't, it's not me. So I'll be interested to know/here what you experience/come up with re that issue.

Thanks for listening,

Cheers,

Johnnyboy

[knary]

Well, I went and did it yesterday.

I had a frankensteined beige G3. I'd upped the hard drive, upgraded with a g4/500 processor, etc. After one too many crashes (it doesn't much like 10.2), I decided that now was the time. Before OS X, it ran neck and neck with a friend's Cube 450.

I now have a DP 867 sitting under the desk. And I'm loving it.

I had the usual debates. Get the Dual Gig? Get the 17" iMac? and so on. In the end, I realized that I *need* to be able to upgrade and that the Dual Gig isn't worth $800 more - for me. It might seem faster right now, but by the time this machine seems slow in a few years or so, the Dual Gig would also feel slow.

Three tiny notes.
1. I fully expect to upgrade the graphics card in the not so distant future.
2. I didn't care about the superdrive enough to warrant buying one.
3. I work in the design field.

[eddiecatflap]

..im going from an icebook 500 - so ill probably see quite a speed increase..hopefully.

cant wait to use x on it.

[adheyes]

I too am seriously considering a dual 867. I was going to wait until January or March and purchase whatever the low end PowerBook was then, but I am on a student budget and given current circumstances, I need some cash saved in case I have to help someone out.

I have a good Dell 17" CRT (OEM Trinitron) monitor, and I'm an Apple Student Developer so I get a nice discount. If anyone has any good ideas as to how to remove the Dell logo from the monitor, please tell me!

The tower should last me for a good 3, maybe 4 years. I currently own a Rev A iBook upgraded to 288Mb RAM, 6Gb HDD, OS X 10.2.1 so I should see quite a nice increase in speed :-)

To be honest, the biggest reason to upgrade for me is to get more screen real estate. Running things like ProjectBuilder on a 800x600 display isn't much fun!

My iMac was my first Mac, I switched from the Acorn RISC OS platform when Acorn ceased trading. Even then I lusted after a PowerBook and it is my dream to own one, but I have to be patient and realistic as it will come to me in time.

I'd like to get an iPod early next year and possibly get into DV.

So, in about 2-3 weeks I will be ordering a dual 867 with SuperDrive. I'll post some pics in the time honoured tradition of Mac unpacking.

[nana4]

Originally posted by Johnnyboysmac:
BUT, one of the first things I'll be saving for, once I've got it,(MAC) and one of the principle reasons for wanting a new computer, and a Mac at that, is to get either a new digital SLR(Nikon D100), and/or F5, plus a dedicated slide scanner to input my existing collection of many hundreds of 35mm transparencies.

I don't know a lot about digital photography, but it strikes me that high quality camers like the D100, or D1 Nikons, and the Canons etc, when used in their highest resolution modes, produce very large file sizes indeed. I'm guessing, but I should imagine, this would affect not only programs like photshop elements, which I'd like to get into, but actual iphoto as well, re the storing/organizing of so many images.

I can't but help think that the tower would handle this task better, but also, even more so as I develop more with this side of computing, ie it gives me room to 'grow' into it, whereas the Imac doesn't to the same degree. So initial processing power, and that power producing a better workflow initially, and for a great deal longer than the Imac are compelling reasons for the tower.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond100/page10.asp

The D100 will give you image sizes of around 2.5 MB in highest quality JPEG, and 10MB in RAW mode. Given that an A4 size image at 300dpi has a file size of 25MB, the digicam files aren't very big in comparison.

It sounds like you have the money, you may want to wait/save for the new Canon D-SLR with 11MP, and more importantly an imaging chip that covers the full frame of 35mm.

[godzappa]

I ordered the successor to my PCI G4 400 on the 10th and am in 'anxious waiting period' now. I ordered the 867 w/ Superdrive and Radeon 9000 BTO so it should (when it eventually arrives) be a speed demon compared to the ol Yikes G4.

I also see now that the Design Freely promo is now available to us in Canada, so thats a nice plus.

Has anyone else in Canada ordered a similar system recently and has experienced delays? Its been 14 days since ordering now and is still "being assembled", despite having a 7-10 day shipping time, a 3-5 day shipping time 3 days after ordering and a 1-3 day shipping time if I order the same system today, whats the deal!?!?!

[eddiecatflap]

..looks to me like the dp867 is the best value powermac for a LONG time

I want one..NOW!

[tramahound]

Originally posted by Skypat:
Well, Superchicken, the silence of the cube is a myth I mean there is no fan, that's true, but the HD is there and it is noisy. My cube is just next to my screen and sometimes the sound bothers me a little.

i replaced my cube's western digital 20gig drive with a seagate baraccuda IV 80gig drive. it now makes hardly a peep. and mine sits on a pedestal right next to my right ear!
see!

[Kat122]

Originally posted by Skypat:
...I will be using my dual for browsing the web, editing family movies, handle all my digital pictures (just bought a new camera so there's gonna be a lot !) and handle my music library on itunes. I also would like to explore some photoshop (elements) and other graphic programs (as an amateur).

Thank you (as usual) for all you comments

I think the 867 is serious overkill for what you plan to do. Why not consider an eMac instead?