[knifecarrier2]

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/com..._infographics/

My thoughts exactly.

[Spheric Harlot]

I want the six minutes back I spent on reading through the first half of that.

I could have been drinking a beer during that time, rather than wasting it on prejudices against prejudices about prejudiced people.

[knifecarrier2]

Dude, it all lines up.
Everything terrible about America. All of it.

[sek929]

My only comment is that the correlation between strong economies/healthy people and properly funded education is not an accident.

My best friend is an Advanced Placement History teacher. I asked him what difference would be made if the Dept. of Education didn't exist. He thought for a minute and said, "Well in this state, absolutely nothing."

[andi*pandi]

All I see is a blurry tiny image. Link?

[Spheric Harlot]

Context-click the image above. Open link in new window.

[andi*pandi]

while it's fun to bash the south, I wonder where some of the data comes from.

Also, the value of noting where American Idol sells tickets... well where do they have the events? Not many tickets being sold in states without an AI event, eh? Then again, how do the AI people know where to go... Similar deal with Nascar.

[raleur]

Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 

Dude, it all lines up.
Everything terrible about America. All of it.

No, it doesn't, dude.

At least one more out-of-context factoid is missing: it doesn't include include idiots who spread hatred and ignorance by resorting to garbage like this in place of intelligent conversation.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

I want the six minutes back I spent on reading through the first half of that.
I could have been drinking a beer during that time, rather than wasting it on prejudices against prejudices about prejudiced people.

How are stats prejudice? They are either accurate or they aren't, and they aren't you can say that this is because of bias/prejudice, but you have to prove that they are wrong first. test

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by raleur 

No, it doesn't, dude.
At least one more out-of-context factoid is missing: it doesn't include include idiots who spread hatred and ignorance by resorting to garbage like this in place of intelligent conversation.

How is it hatred? Again, either the numbers are accurate or they aren't.

[raleur]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

How is it hatred? Again, either the numbers are accurate or they aren't.

Even if they are accurate, they are taken out of context, without explanation: it's nothing more than eye candy, not "real numbers." And if you can't read the commentary of the idiot who cherry-picked all of those pieces and see it for the hatred that it is, then I can't help you.

Heck, the fact that you think it proves anything at all is proof enough that I can't help you. Obviously, at least one argument is flawed: the person who put this together is just as stupid as those he or she wishes to condemn.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by raleur 

Even if they are accurate, they are taken out of context, without explanation: it's nothing more than eye candy, not "real numbers." And if you can't read the commentary of the idiot who cherry-picked all of those pieces and see it for the hatred that it is, then I can't help you.
Heck, the fact that you think it proves anything at all is proof enough that I can't help you. Obviously, at least one argument is flawed: the person who put this together is just as stupid as those he or she wishes to condemn.

No, if the numbers are correct the numbers are fine, it's the conclusion the compiler seems to be making which you disagree with.

The numbers are numbers, they are either accurate or they aren't.

[subego]

If you see "r/politics" or "r/atheism", back away slowly and close the tab.

[Shaddim]

*News Flash*

Rob is an angry bigot, film at 11.

FYI, my county in TN doesn't fit with your theory, it consistently stands out above others in those charts. Despite being religious and NASCAR fans.

[Shaddim]

BTW, it isn't about stats being wrong or right, it's how you allow yourself to react when you see them. Are you going to be wise and see those stats as potential for growth and development, or are you going to be a typical ape at the zoo, flicking sh*t because you feel the need to have a tantrum?

If we did a similar chart, mapping out Africa and comparing it to NA and Europe, then allow a knee-jerk reaction, what would be your opinion with regards to black people (who make up 95% of the African population)? Despite being an ignorant Southerner (2 PhDs & 3 Master's), those "facts" would not sway me to believe that African people "suck".

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

How are stats prejudice? They are either accurate or they aren't, and they aren't you can say that this is because of bias/prejudice, but you have to prove that they are wrong first.

Let me put it this way. The author used "brainwashed" as a synonym for "religious." They are pre-supposing their conclusion. Do you trust a person like that to take their stats from unbiased sources, or gather them in unbiased ways, rather than cherry picking statistical outliers that are nonetheless technically "accurate"? Would you assume that the stats given by someone who used "communist" as a synonym for "Obama" are accurate until those stats were "proven wrong first?"

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

BTW, it isn't about stats being wrong or right, it's how you allow yourself to react when you see them.

Exactly.

I read enough to see them as cherry-picked (occasionally not even properly vetted—using a historical stat that includes California and some of the Northeast with the South in support of trying to illustrate a general trend in the South is questionable at best) and compiled by a bigot in such a way as to most effectively reflect/amplify prejudices.

Realizing it would make me angry, I closed the window and drew my conclusions about the person who posted the graphic.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Exactly.
I read enough to see them as cherry-picked (occasionally not even properly vetted—using a historical stat that includes California and some of the Northeast with the South in support of trying to illustrate a general trend in the South is questionable at best) and compiled by a bigot in such a way as to most effectively reflect/amplify prejudices.
Realizing it would make me angry, I closed the window and drew my conclusions about the person who posted the graphic.

I'm looking for the chart with the "percentage of residents who are decent people who will go out of their way to help strangers". I couldn't find it.

Enlightenment = Wisdom + Kindness, not Intellect + Affluence. If your heart isn't in the right place, no amount of knowledge is sufficient.

1st Corinthians 13:1-11; learn it, live it. That's not just good advice for Christians, it applies to everyone.

[andi*pandi]

there are too many clanging cymbals in this world.

[besson3c]

Shaddim, Skeleton, your points about how the author has cherry picked stats to support his conclusion I agree with. I'm just saying that the problem is not with the stats themselves, if they are accurate.

It is probably safe to say that those states have their share of problems. All states have problems, but as far as those particular problems go, particularly lacking education, they are pretty well documented. Also, as I've also pointed out in the past, those lacking education statistically likely tend to vote Republican more often than not too. I'm not necessarily inferring a connection, I'm just pointing out the stats.

[knifecarrier2]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I'm looking for the chart with the "percentage of residents who are decent people who will go out of their way to help strangers". I couldn't find it.
Enlightenment = Wisdom + Kindness, not Intellect + Affluence. If your heart isn't in the right place, no amount of knowledge is sufficient.
1st Corinthians 13:1-11; learn it, live it. That's not just good advice for Christians, it applies to everyone.

Kindness.... like creating more hate groups than the north, having way more murders than the north, etc. Got it.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 

like creating more hate groups than the north

That was one, for example, where some of the "free" states actually don't fare so well.

I stopped reading shortly after that.

[knifecarrier2]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Shaddim, Skeleton, your points about how the author has cherry picked stats to support his conclusion I agree with. I'm just saying that the problem is not with the stats themselves, if they are accurate.

It is probably safe to say that those states have their share of problems. All states have problems, but as far as those particular problems go, particularly lacking education, they are pretty well documented. Also, as I've also pointed out in the past, those lacking education statistically likely tend to vote Republican more often than not too. I'm not necessarily inferring a connection, I'm just pointing out the stats.

But you SHOULD point out the connection, because it is consistent. Any state with really poor education tends to vote republican, have teen pregnancies, STDs, more violent, fat people, etc etc etc.

If this was something where the red states only connected to certain negative aspects, sure, fine, they're outliers.....

but when EVERY ****ING MAP LINES UP, you have to draw your own conclusions.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 

Kindness.... like creating more hate groups than the north, having way more murders than the north, etc. Got it.

"Hate groups", like the Black Panthers? Tops in murders, like Detroit? How does fostering hate and behaving like a northern redneck improve any of this?

It seems my comments about Africa were conveniently ignored. Surprising?

Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 

But you SHOULD point out the connection, because it is consistent. Any state with really poor education tends to vote republican, have teen pregnancies, STDs, more violent, fat people, etc etc etc.
If this was something where the red states only connected to certain negative aspects, sure, fine, they're outliers.....
but when EVERY ****ING MAP LINES UP, you have to draw your own conclusions.

and then act like the people you're railing against? Yeah, that'll show them!

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 

Kindness.... like creating more hate groups than the north, having way more murders than the north, etc. Got it.

WHAT BS!!

How many violent crimes in Detroit yesterday, or Chicago, or New York. The violent crimes happen more in places with gun bans. Go figure.

[osiris]

lol gonorrhea infections. I wonder what the stats are with inbreeding and inter-species mating.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Shaddim, Skeleton, your points about how the author has cherry picked stats to support his conclusion I agree with. I'm just saying that the problem is not with the stats themselves, if they are accurate.

Selective editing makes them inaccurate. For an excellent example, look at this:

Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 

but when EVERY ****ING MAP LINES UP, you have to draw your own conclusions.

See, besson3c, now you have a poor unprepared reader thinking that "EVERY ****ING MAP" lines up. EVERY one. The ones the author conveniently ignored don't exist for this reader. That's why selective statistics are inaccurate. That's why you have "lies, damn lies, and statistics."

[knifecarrier2]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

"Hate groups", like the Black Panthers? Tops in murders, like Detroit? How does fostering hate and behaving like a northern redneck improve any of this?
It seems my comments about Africa were conveniently ignored. Surprising?
and then act like the people you're railing against? Yeah, that'll show them!

Your comments about Africa were ignored because they were stupid. It's an entirely different country, with different laws, different government, etc, so any comparison of differences is probably LARGELY due to the gov itself.

What is intersting about the south, is that despite being really poor, despite being uneducated, they STILL are somehow brainwashed into hating unions (which would generally get them more $) and hating education (We don't need it!!!), that whole attitude is a mind****, it's like they hate themselves or something. Zero desire for improvement.

And for murders... dude.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 

Your comments about Africa were ignored because they were stupid. It's an entirely different country

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 

Your comments about Africa were ignored because they were stupid. It's an entirely different country

Yeah... you Northerners are impressive. Ridiculing the education levels of others? Really? Should I evaluate all "Yankees" based on your geography skills? Setting aside your Bushism, impressive though it may be, my comments about Africa are not "stupid". If we're going to look at cultural and political differences as they relate to poverty, crime, and education, then we need to look at all of humanity.

[subego]

Hawaii has the number two crime rate?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by subego 

Hawaii has the number two crime rate?

2 of the top 3, and 5 of the top 10, went to Obama.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Originally Posted by subego 

Hawaii has the number two crime rate?

2 of the top 3, and 5 of the top 10, went to Obama.

I hate them so much I hope they secede

[knifecarrier2]

Me too. We need a progressive america not tied to relgious morons. Let them have their poverty, fat asses, STDs, and despise a national healthcare system. I'm sure they'll do great.

[raleur]

Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 

Me too. We need a progressive america not tied to relgious morons. Let them have their poverty, fat asses, STDs, and despise a national healthcare system. I'm sure they'll do great.

See, this is what you wanted to say all along. Fine, we get it. But don't pretend that a bunch of cherry-picked graphics make that case for you.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 

Me too. We need a progressive america not tied to relgious morons. Let them have their poverty, fat asses, STDs, and despise a national healthcare system. I'm sure they'll do great.

Not a strong reader, are you?

[raleur]

For those who are interested in this sort of thing, many of the maps are unreliable to the point of being propaganda because of the way they were designed.

You need look no further than the legends:
6694/width/350/height/700[/IMG]
Look at the different ranges covered- the only reason you'd break the numbers down in this fashion would be to exaggerate something. If the map were redrawn following a consistent scale, the differences would be much less obvious. Even if there were a correlation between education and political affiliation (there isn't), this map is completely untrustworthy.

6695/width/350/height/700[/IMG]
Same with this map: if the scale were consistent, there'd be fewer red spots to catch your eye. And if you ignore the deep red, you'll notice that the next two levels (10-24.9%) are pretty much evenly distributed throughout the country.

6696/width/350/height/700[/IMG]
What does this even mean? How much disparity is "Most Unequal"? There's just a lot of scary red. Also, Nevada is apparently a workers' paradise.

6697/width/350/height/700[/IMG]
If this map somehow supported the argument the poster wanted to make, we'd be forced to conclude not that religion makes you stupid, but that being a Baptist makes you stupid, and being a Catholic makes you smart.

[mattyb]

raleur, is that as in the French râleur?

I'm betting that we know you already.

EDIT: Like Socrates, I searched for "percentage of blacks per state" to see what I could find. This : http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_nhblack.html

So, does the percentage of black people have ANYTHING do do with ANY of the graphics in Cash's wonderful 'whythesouthsucks.jpg' image? Why/Why not?

Should we ask the same question for hispanics? Illegal immigrants? Why? Why not?

BTW, nearly finished the 2nd bottle of wine (not working tomorrow).

[knifecarrier2]

Actually if you look at the church one, it says there are 1302 baptist churches, and 1,164 catholic churches. Due to the smaller area of the "baptist controlled" areas, and the higher number, this equates to more churches over a smaller area thus more churches per mile.

[raleur]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

raleur, is that as in the French râleur?
I'm betting that we know you already.

Yes, from the verb râler- I've used it for years, never bothered with the accent because it only complicates things.
I suppose it's possible that you know me from some other forum, but I'm not someone who's posted here before, but taken a new account, if that's what you're suggesting.

Originally Posted by mattyb 

So, does the percentage of black people have ANYTHING do do with ANY of the graphics in Cash's wonderful 'whythesouthsucks.jpg' image? Why/Why not?
Should we ask the same question for hispanics? Illegal immigrants? Why? Why not?

I'm not sure where you're going with the african-american question, but the immigrant question is very pertinent, and more than likely skews whatever numbers they do have, especially regarding education and poverty.

[raleur]

Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 

Actually if you look at the church one, it says there are 1302 baptist churches, and 1,164 catholic churches. Due to the smaller area of the "baptist controlled" areas, and the higher number, this equates to more churches over a smaller area thus more churches per mile.

Good try.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by raleur 

Yes, from the verb râler- I've used it for years, never bothered with the accent because it only complicates things.
I suppose it's possible that you know me from some other forum, but I'm not someone who's posted here before, but taken a new account, if that's what you're suggesting.
I'm not sure where you're going with the african-american question, but the immigrant question is very pertinent, and more than likely skews whatever numbers they do have, especially regarding education and poverty.

Not going anywhere. Its the MacNN Lounge and its Cash who posted. I've only been here a few years and even I know what sort of posts he is capable of, under all his pseudonyms.

Try and throw in something about 4x4 owners or the use of manual versus automatic gearboxes in the northern states. It'll get really interesting then.

[raleur]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Not going anywhere. Its the MacNN Lounge and its Cash who posted. I've only been here a few years and even I know what sort of posts he is capable of, under all his pseudonyms.

Well, a quick search doesn't give me any posts by him, but several directed at him. But there are a number of banned accounts with only a handful of posts, so I'm guessing those were the pseudonyms you mentioned.

Anyway, not me- I have very little interest in cars. But I'm curious, what led you to make the comparison?

[Spheric Harlot]

A handful of usernames.



Here, for reference:
http://forums.macnn.com/0/forum/406910/list-of-cash-names-on-macnn

[raleur]

Wow, he was persistent. Psychotically so.

I have to admit, I'm not flattered at all by the suggestion.

[MacinTommy]

But guys!!!! You're missing the point!! He has a porsche AND an audi!!! how kewl is that!!! And an awesome boat! Come on guys!!

[BLAZE_MkIV]

Wait having a Porsche makes my opinions more valid? Awesome sauce.

[besson3c]

I would love to do a Freakonomics-esque sort of study of the data in Rob's infographic... There probably all sorts of interesting connections here, I'd really like to understand them from a more cultural and mathematical/statistical standpoint since I've made similar observations in the past and got called out for them similar to how Rob is being called out here, and realized that I lack this knowledge to debate my observations from this vantage point.

You guys have to admit though, there *probably* are relations here which support conclusions similar to at least some of the conclusions in this infographic. I mean, can we leave off our PC/accuracy-robot hats long enough to agree that several of these red states in the south have glaring problems in diet, health, education, etc., and that their redness might relate to the history of those states, as well as the present culture within those states?

If you want to accuracy-robot one could probably make the case that the redness and blueness of any state is a random occurrences or an outlier in relation to their statistical breakdown, but I don't buy that, there has to be specific statistical connections...

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

You guys have to admit though, there *probably* are relations here which support conclusions similar to at least some of the conclusions in this infographic. I mean, can we leave off our PC/accuracy-robot hats long enough to agree that several of these red states in the south have glaring problems in diet, health, education, etc., and that their redness might relate to the history of those states, as well as the present culture within those states?

Has it ever occurred to you that some people would rather be fat and happy than thin and nervous, and those might just be the same people who support "our freedoms" and oppose the nanny state?

[Phileas]

First two rules of research:

1. Correlation ≠ Causation
2. The plural of anecdote isn't data