[downinflames68]

K. I'm going to just post in here whenever I'm digging a song hard. To start?

YouTube - Hot Chip - Touch Too Much (Kollektiv Turmstrasse Remix) *

I like the intro, if it's a bit long, it's still great, and has a late 90s feel to it. 3 minutes in... the analogue instruments come in, which sounds epic. Then, the lyrics. Simple, meaningful, and something most people can relate to. Then the strings hit. Awesome. I am definitely digging this song, it reminds me of fall.

[downinflames68]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl0G3uH71B8

Rad Anthem. Never heard of them before, but would definitely like to hear more. The lyrics are... well.. super stupid and simple, but when the song breaks from a happy cheerful mood into a badass, raw, rough bassline, it's pretty sick. Makes me want to do a lot of drugs, start fights, and be totally reckless. Hence why the video is effing PERFECT.

[iMOTOR]

So this thread is all about you?

[downinflames68]

You can contribute if you want, but I probably won't pay attention to it. Just more about sharing some pretty obscure but awesome shit with people.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

K. I'm going to just post in here whenever I'm digging a song hard. To start?

YouTube - Hot Chip - Touch Too Much (Kollektiv Turmstrasse Remix) *

I like the intro, if it's a bit long, it's still great, and has a late 90s feel to it. 3 minutes in... the analogue instruments come in, which sounds epic. Then, the lyrics. Simple, meaningful, and something most people can relate to. Then the strings hit. Awesome. I am definitely digging this song, it reminds me of fall.

I found the whole thing rather repetitive, lacking structure, and rather flat in terms of shape and artistic direction. It didn't go anywhere. Very nice sound and groove though.

[downinflames68]

I would agree with you about repetitive, and rather flat in terms of shape and direction, but that's true of most electronic music. I listen to a lot of it, and for some reason this one stays in my head a lot.

[iMOTOR]

Well then, feel free to ignore my contributions:

YouTube - Groove Armada - Save My Soul

YouTube - John Tejada - The end of it all

YouTube - Aphex Twin - Alberto Balsalm

[besson3c]

Agreed that it is true for a lot of electronic music, at least the stuff I've heard.

Since you're into electronic music (although with live performers), what do you think of Jamiroquai? Here is a little 40 second clip:

YouTube - Jamiroquai - "White Knuckle Ride" - walk on

How about this old school mostly electronic keyboard stuff, circa 1976?

YouTube - Imp's Welcome.

Not terribly similar to the others, although it does have shape and direction and has always, for me, been very haunting and pretty and a quite interesting use of audio tech, particularly as it sets up the rest of the album (this is the first track on the album)

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by iMOTOR 

Well then, feel free to ignore my contributions:

YouTube - Groove Armada - Save My Soul

YouTube - John Tejada - The end of it all

YouTube - Aphex Twin - Alberto Balsalm

I only listened to the first one (I'll listen to the others later), but what it reminded me of is what I've been thinking of for a while. Some music, for me, is more of an impressionistic soundscape than a "song", electronic music like this included. I see a direct connection to this sort of stuff to an album like A Love Supreme (recorded in 1964) as an example of an early attempt at these same sorts of impressionistic soundscapes. Tell me if you hear some similarities?

YouTube - Resolulion JOHN COLTRANE A LOVE SUPREME

Specifically, the song is not built around a particular melody. The melody in this movement of A Love Supreme is more of a riff built on a single chord. The entire song is basically about creating sound, not new melodies. The form is very open and unstructured. The entire album is supposed to be Coltrane's discovery of God and an expression of his passion and the passions of life and stuff like that.

For soundscapes I like the idea of a theme, whether it is the Irish/celtic leprechaun stuff of the Imp's Welcome clip, or something like this. I like the fact that the various movements have a shape to them, that there is a sense of design to them.

I don't expect too many of you to dig the Coltrane thing, but I hope this thread keeps going, I'm interested in hearing what sort of soundscapes (electronic or otherwise) interest you and share some of these characteristics.

[iMOTOR]

Nah, I listen to a lot of Jazz. Though, Jazz is one those genres you have to listen to in a quiet room with good acoustics. Even good headphones ruin it for me.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by iMOTOR 

Nah, I listen to a lot of Jazz. Though, Jazz is one those genres you have to listen to in a quiet room with good acoustics. Even good headphones ruin it for me.

Do you prefer the soundscape/freeform sort of stuff, or jazz prior to, say, the 1970s? Care to list some stuff? It's always interesting to me to hear what sub genres appeal the most

I'm also interested in non-jazz stuff too, I don't mean to monopolize this thread, although I have found that it can be really interesting to understand the history behind a certain kind of music, even if you prefer the stuff that came out of it to the "original"

[iMOTOR]

Some more:

YouTube - Ulrich Schnauss - Stars

YouTube - DJ Sammy - Appalachian Fall

YouTube - 16 Bit Lolitas vs. Motorcycle - Deep Breath Lolitas (Dave Dresden Mashup)

[iMOTOR]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Care to list some stuff?

Pretty much the basics: Coltrane, Brubeck, Antonio Carlos Jobim, Harald Johnson. I tend to go for the less harsh Jazz if that makes sense.

[finboy]

Nice thread guys, thanks.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by iMOTOR 

Pretty much the basics: Coltrane, Brubeck, Antonio Carlos Jobim, Harald Johnson. I tend to go for the less harsh Jazz if that makes sense.

Not really... Coltrane might be considered "harsh" by some, and if by the "basics" you mean the big movers and shakers, only Coltrane and Jobim in that list would really qualify.

Thanks for providing this anyway though, I don't to belittle what you wrote.

[Stogieman]

Originally Posted by finboy 

Nice thread guys, thanks.

Yeah I'm surprised. All these YouTube links and we haven't been Rick Rolled yet.

[brassplayersrock²]

Sure, I’ll contribute.

YouTube - UGUH (The cry baby song) with the official dance

[BadKosh]

Something a little different.......

YouTube - Nina Hagen - Tiere

[Laminar]

So what's the difference between this thread a blog?
Or one of Salty's threads?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

So what's the difference between this thread a blog?
Or one of Salty's threads?

A blog doesn't feature people complaining about how the content should be written to a forum instead?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

So what's the difference between this thread a blog?

Some blogs actually have good taste in music?

[iMOTOR]

Looks like Uncle Doof doesn’t fancy random electronic music.

[downinflames68]

YouTube - Ed Solo - Age Of Dub

Okay, this... is flat out, ****ing BADASS. I love it. It builds slow (like any good song should do, then out of nowhere, totally glitched out vocals, and a RIDICULOUSLY sick bass line. The melody in this one IS the bass, so... I'd have to say this is probably one of my favorite all time drum and bass tracks. It hits so hard!!!!!!

[besson3c]

Where is the melody in that track? Just want to make sure I'm not missing what you are referring to...

[downinflames68]

Importance of drum and bassline elements
The name "drum and bass" should not lead to the assumption that tracks are constructed solely from these elements. Nevertheless, they are by far the most critical features, and usually dominate the mix of a track.[citation needed]
The genre places great importance on the "bass line", a deep sub-bass musical pattern which can be felt physically through powerful sound systems due to the low-range frequencies favoured. There has been considerable exploration of different timbres in the bass line region, particularly within techstep. The bass lines most notably originate from sampled sources or synthesizers. Bass lines performed with a bass instrument, whether it is electric, acoustic or a double bass, are less common but examples can be found in the work of bands such as Shapeshifter, Squarepusher, Roni Size and STS9. Sampled basslines are often taken from double bass recordings or from publicly available loops.[citation needed]
In drum and bass productions, the bass lines are often subjected to many and varied sound effects, including standard techniques such as dynamic compression, flanger, chorus, over-drive, equalization, etc. and drum and bass specific techniques such as timestretched beats and the "Reese Bass", a distinctive synthesized bass sound comprising layered 'clashing' sawtooth waves. The term is a result of producer's Kevin Saunderson's notable use of it in his work under the Reese/Master Reese alias.[citation needed]
Of equal importance is the "808" kick drum, an artificially pitch-downed or elongated bass drum sound sampled from Roland's classic TR-808 drum machine, and a sound which has been subject to an enormous amount of experimentation over the years.[6]
These bass techniques are fully appreciated in a club or rave environments where high quality woofers and powerful amplifiers are required to fully reproduce the eponymous basslines at high volume levels.[citation needed] This has led to the creation of very large and intensely loud touring soundsystems by producers wishing to show off their tracks, such as dubs from Soundman and dubs from Dillinja's Valve Sound System.[citation needed]
The complex syncopation of the drum tracks' breakbeat, is another facet of production on which producers can spend a very large amount of time. The Amen break is generally acknowledged to have been the most-used (and often considered the most powerful) break in drum and bass.[7]
The Amen break was synonomous with early drum and bass productions but other samples have had a significant impact, including the Apache, Funky Drummer, "Soul Pride" and "Scorpio" breaks.[8] [9]
Many drum and bass tracks have featured more than one sampled breakbeat in them and a technique of switching between two breaks after each bar developed. Examples of this can be heard on mid-90s releases including J Majik's "Your Sound" and Doc Scott's "Machines". A more recent commonly used break is the Tramen, which combines the Amen break, a James Brown funk breakbeat ("Tighten Up" or "Samurai" break) and an Alex Reece drum and bass breakbeat.[10]
The relatively fast drum beat forms a canvas on which a producer can create tracks to appeal to almost any taste and often will form only a background to the other elements of the music. Syncopated breakbeats remain the most distinctive element as without these a high-tempo 4/4 dance track could be classified as techno or gabber.[11]
[edit]

[turtle777]

That's not drum and bass. Far too slow (too low bpm).

Btw, you should check out the free app Digitally Imported Radio. Multitudes of great free electronic music channels.

-t

[besson3c]

Just FYI, a repeating looping bass line pattern is not really a melody, technically speaking.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Just FYI, a repeating looping bass line pattern is not really a melody, technically speaking.

Does it (the technicality) matter ?

Electronic music doesn't always follow ordinary rules of music. There's some bat-shit crazy electronic "music" out there that most people would just call noise.

-t

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Does it (the technicality) matter ?

Electronic music doesn't always follow ordinary rules of music. There's some bat-shit crazy electronic "music" out there that most people would just call noise.

-t

How can we talk about music if we don't use the words in accordance to some consistent and coherent definition?

I'm not trying to be a word Nazi or come across as anal or something, but I'm just pointing out that I went to listen for a melody and didn't fine one, and was left confused. That's all.

[turtle777]

Have a look at this: Ishkur's Guide to Electronic Music | New Home on Techno.org

Nice overview (incl. samples) of the development of electronic music.

-t

[downinflames68]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

That's not drum and bass. Far too slow (too low bpm).

Btw, you should check out the free app Digitally Imported Radio. Multitudes of great free electronic music channels.

-t

I used to be a fan of DI, but I think dark audio is much better.

darkaudio v2.1 | free audio hosting, artist promotion & worldwide events

[downinflames68]

Okay, what do you guys classify that as then?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Have a look at this: Ishkur's Guide to Electronic Music | New Home on Techno.org

Nice overview (incl. samples) of the development of electronic music.

But it's actually wrong, isn't it?

IIRC, no mention of Vorhaus, Derbyshire, Froese, etc..
And no mention of the roots of today's dance electronica, which was basically some prat not having enough talent to use his freshly purchased gear for anything musical. I'm convinced that jungle and drum 'n' bass was discovered when some talentless cretin popped a crappy pattern into his 626 and accidentally knocked the tempo knob.

[turtle777]

I didn't expect you to be a fan of it. Btw, read the description of "electronica". Dude's having fun.

-t

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I didn't expect you to be a fan of it. Btw, read the description of "electronica". Dude's having fun.

I'll let him off. Further inspection reveals he has got Vorhaus in there.

Don't get me wrong - I like electronic music (after all, my speciality is electronic music gear). Just not the crap Rob is posting, because I know how many minutes it took the "artiste" to make it - if I was set up for it, maybe 45 minutes start to finish. It's crap.

[downinflames68]

You sound like people bitching about modern art.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I'll let him off. Further inspection reveals he has got Vorhaus in there.

Don't get me wrong - I like electronic music (after all, my speciality is electronic music gear). Just not the crap Rob is posting, because I know how many minutes it took the "artiste" to make it - if I was set up for it, maybe 45 minutes start to finish. It's crap.

The value of music and how much it should be appreciated relates to its difficulty in creating it?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

The value of music and how much it should be appreciated relates to its difficulty in creating it?

To create art without putting much thought into it would be a form of intellectual laziness, would it not?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

To create art without putting much thought into it would be a form of intellectual laziness, would it not?

I agree, but this is a different argument.

Somebody who has got their shit together can create a masterpiece in 45 minutes too, if inspired somehow. There are many great examples of this. What you are saying is that this artist doesn't have his shit together, right?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I agree, but this is a different argument.

Somebody who has got their shit together can create a masterpiece in 45 minutes too, if inspired somehow. There are many great examples of this. What you are saying is that this artist doesn't have his shit together, right?

Let me be clear, the composition/conception of a masterpiece probably takes more than 45 minutes, but sometimes these are just ideas in your head that are put to paper fairly quickly, although which take years and years of work prior to be able to form in the first place. I'm not saying that one can produce a masterpiece in 45 minutes. The actual *assembly* part of a work that is already conceptualized can take 45 minutes though.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

What you are saying is that this artist doesn't have his shit together, right?

What I'm saying is that the sort of stuff which Rob is posting requires no talent at all. I know loads of people who can come out with that stuff from cold to finish in less than an hour, given a rig designed to do that kind of crap. But they choose not to, because they've got more respect for themselves.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

What I'm saying is that the sort of stuff which Rob is posting requires no talent at all. I know loads of people who can come out with that stuff from cold to finish in less than an hour, given a rig designed to do that kind of crap. But they choose not to, because they've got more respect for themselves.

Fair enough. I wasn't overwhelmed with its depth either.

[downinflames68]

Doofy... maybe it's a generation gap... but keep in mind I grew up with an Atari, and a Nintendo. I enjoy a lot of music, even the simpler, electronic kind. Just because there's a lot of it and it doesn't take years to create doesn't mean it isn't enjoyable, the same way a greasy burger from a dive bar can be immensely satisfying, more so than eating at some fancy sushi place.

[macaddict0001]

Well, I suppose "Quality is Relative"

[besson3c]

Hey Doof,

You appreciate Stanley Clarke, right? Check out his playing here with Steve Gadd (drummer) and Chick Corea, tell me what you think:

YouTube - Nite Sprite.

The energy and intensity the two of them are able to create together from 1:30 to 3:30 or so is pretty wild... The selling point is them, the solos are short (as you like 'em), but to me the focal point is their interplay.

We share in common a love of bands and the sounds and music they make from listening to each other and having done this for years. You can't reproduce this sort of thing with computers and electronics, it's gotta be humans! To me, musicians being more dynamic and responsive to each other in order to make each moment unique and special is one thing that is lacking in a lot of pop music.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

Doofy... maybe it's a generation gap... but keep in mind I grew up with an Atari, and a Nintendo. I enjoy a lot of music, even the simpler, electronic kind. Just because there's a lot of it and it doesn't take years to create doesn't mean it isn't enjoyable, the same way a greasy burger from a dive bar can be immensely satisfying, more so than eating at some fancy sushi place.

Agreed... It is good that you are enthusiastic and listening to different kinds of music, our opinions on whether this is good or not are irrelevant, all that matters is that this is good for you.

However, I also think it is good to encourage people to challenge themselves as often as possible. To complete your analogy, so many people *only* eat those greasy burgers and never enjoy the pleasures of good Japanese, Thai, Indian, Italian, French, Jewish, etc. food. There exists centuries of great music waiting for people to be discovered, there is so much more out there than popular music today. Going outside one's comfort level from time to time is a good thing

This lecture not intended at you specifically, these are just some general beliefs of mine...

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

Doofy... maybe it's a generation gap...

Don't be silly. It's a "class" thing.

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

but keep in mind I grew up with an Atari

So did I. Bizarre, no?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Hey Doof,

You appreciate Stanley Clarke, right? Check out his playing here with Steve Gadd (drummer) and Chick Corea, tell me what you think:

YouTube - Nite Sprite.

I appreciate Stanley's talent, but that music just didn't do anything for me.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

The energy and intensity the two of them are able to create together from 1:30 to 3:30 or so is pretty wild... The selling point is them, the solos are short (as you like 'em), but to me the focal point is their interplay.

We share in common a love of bands and the sounds and music they make from listening to each other and having done this for years. You can't reproduce this sort of thing with computers and electronics, it's gotta be humans! To me, musicians being more dynamic and responsive to each other in order to make each moment unique and special is one thing that is lacking in a lot of pop music.

You can actually do that kind of interplay thing in a studio by yourself (i.e. one man band situation). But, you have to remember not to correct those "moments" (and, of course, be able to judge which "moments" are worth keeping) and just leave it be with a lot of human element in there.
But, if we're talking about pop and dance music it's often more efficient to hard quantise everything because the listeners don't tend to care anyway. It's made with the expectations of the intended market's listeners in mind - if those expectations aren't up to much, then the whole process begins with that in mind.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I appreciate Stanley's talent, but that music just didn't do anything for me.

Fair enough...

You can actually do that kind of interplay thing in a studio by yourself (i.e. one man band situation). But, you have to remember not to correct those "moments" (and, of course, be able to judge which "moments" are worth keeping) and just leave it be with a lot of human element in there.
But, if we're talking about pop and dance music it's often more efficient to hard quantise everything because the listeners don't tend to care anyway. It's made with the expectations of the intended market's listeners in mind - if those expectations aren't up to much, then the whole process begins with that in mind.

Yeah, I'm hip to the whole one man band overdubbing thing and that sometimes can produce good results, but I almost always prefer having different musicians with different styles and influences playing with each other, it seems to make the whole much greater. As a means of personal expression, I find that the pieces themselves can provide just as much, if not more than the performances themselves, if those pieces have great vision and direction. In other words, I don't really feel like I need, say, Herbie Hancock to play every instrument in the band when I can get a very strong Herbie fix from his playing piano/keyboards, his compositions, and his direction on the album. I don't ever find myself wishing that he could play every instrument in the group.

At times I also find the one man band overdubbing thing to be little more a neat trick and shtick than something genuinely musical.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

At times I also find the one man band overdubbing thing to be more a neat trick

Like I said to my newboy guitarist when he was slightly horrified about the use of autotune/melodyne, everything beyond sticking a pair of mics and stereo recorder in front of a live band is a "neat trick". That reverb unit? Studio trickery. Those compressors? Studio trickery. That treble knob on channel 3? Studio trickery.

I guess I see things a little differently (maybe?). To me, everything between my fingers and the final stereo master is "the instrument". An overdub is no more or no less of a "trick" than the Am chord - just a different part of "the instrument".
And the whole instrument is the voice, the channel through which to communicate emotion and energy... ...whether that's making a rock dude want to punch the air in a triumphant, take-on-the-world manner or whether it's to move the subs in the chav's ricer to impress the fat pimply chick he just picked up at the local "sound off".