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Rant: iTMS Could Be a Lot Better
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LaGow
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May 18, 2005, 12:11 PM
 
[This is a bit of a rant with some constructive criticism (I hope).]

The music industry doesn't know how really good they have it. It's bad enough that I'm re-buying the same songs I already have on LPs I've owned forever--which is what we all did when CDs came out 15 years ago. But buy an album on iTMS and so much is missing. Where are the liner notes? Where the HELL are the song credits? Why should I have to spend any time at all Googling all over the Net to find out, for instance, that Peggy Lee sang lead vocal on Benny Goodman's rendition of "Why Don't You Do Right?" (which was written by Joe McCoy in 1942)?

And doesn't anyone think it's almost criminal the way iTMS constantly mis-reports album/song release dates? I don't care when the damn song was digitized--I want to know when it was first copyrighted and released. Currently, this information is hit and miss. Mostly miss.

There's so much more to listening to a song than, well, just listening to the song. So much has been lost. I want to see GOBS of metadata about the songs I buy; The album reviews are a step in the right direction, but I want more than just the album cover when I buy an album--I want the whole package. I paid for that when I bought the original vinyl (even the CD)--why aren't we getting that now? I also want to see something approaching customer service when downloads go wrong.

Don't get me wrong iTMS is good...enough. But this is Apple. For my money, I want great--or at least equivalent.
     
analogika
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May 18, 2005, 12:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by LaGow
And doesn't anyone think it's almost criminal the way iTMS constantly mis-reports album/song release dates? I don't care when the damn song was digitized--I want to know when it was first copyrighted and released. Currently, this information is hit and miss. Mostly miss.
This bit of criminal misinformation is NOT iTMS' fault.

The copyright date on any audio media refers only to the finished material. Which, in doubt, is the final master. Re-master: new copyright.

It's been that way forever.

It is courtesy of SOME labels to include original production date on their CDs, but by FAR the most don't bother.
     
Randman
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May 18, 2005, 01:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by LaGow
I also want to see something approaching customer service when downloads go wrong.
Have examples? I've only had a couple of problems (a corrupted download and a deauthorization issue) with the customer service and all has been quick, friendly and helpful.

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Weyland-Yutani
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May 18, 2005, 01:58 PM
 
iTMS should allow you to download all the songs you have bought as often as you'd like. iTMS keeps tabs on authorized machines and what songs you buyl. This isn't rocket science and would in effect make the songs you bought more valuable to you because they are all backed up safely on a server in California.

cheers

W-Y

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LaGow  (op)
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May 18, 2005, 03:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika
This bit of criminal misinformation is NOT iTMS' fault.

The copyright date on any audio media refers only to the finished material. Which, in doubt, is the final master. Re-master: new copyright.

It's been that way forever.

It is courtesy of SOME labels to include original production date on their CDs, but by FAR the most don't bother.
The problem is the way it's presented. Currently iTMS lists a song as "released" on a certain date--the latest copyright. What we need is a separate category: Initial Release or something to that effect. It is terribly misleading to list a 30-year old song as "released" in 2003. If they can't lift a finger to give us the initial release date, the least they could do is change the label to "Latest Release" or whatever.
     
LaGow  (op)
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May 18, 2005, 03:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Randman
Have examples? I've only had a couple of problems (a corrupted download and a deauthorization issue) with the customer service and all has been quick, friendly and helpful.
Had a problem completing a download of a song. The tune kept hanging and iTunes kept telling me to check back later. After checking back later and later, on and on, still getting the same message from iTunes, I became frustrated that this technical glitch had but one resolution as far as iTunes was concerned: the same damned dialog box requesting I check back later. This is not customer service, it's a computer programmed to initiate an automated repsonse without regard to the fact that there is a human being on the other end who has plunked down his $9.99 and feels a contract has not been fulfilled.

I have to say, eventually I was finally able to download the song. But for a while I thought I was without recourse to ever get it. I want better. I want iTMS to, after a reasonable amount of time without being able to download the song, credit your charge card and politely ask you to try again later. The feeling you're being taken advantage of while involved with a glitch is profound. Glitches happen. But Apple could go a long way towards making it a more satisfying experience by giving back the money until the problem is resolved.
     
Randman
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May 18, 2005, 03:54 PM
 
Complain to the album companies about that, not Apple.

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LaGow  (op)
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May 18, 2005, 03:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Randman
Complain to the album companies about that, not Apple.
Last I checked, the labels don't own iTMS. It's Apple's technology. It's Apple's problem. I don't think it's unreasonable for a customer to get his money back if he doesn't receive the goods as promised. If it's a matter of one song on an album download, then refund the 99 cents until the problem is fixed. Do you think this is idea unreasonable? Why?
     
Chuckit
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May 18, 2005, 04:14 PM
 
Considering that just a minute ago you said you did receive the goods as promised, this "if he doesn't" business seems purely hypothetical to me. I've never heard of anyone who bought something from the iTunes Music Store and never received it.
Chuck
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OAW
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May 18, 2005, 04:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by LaGow
The problem is the way it's presented. Currently iTMS lists a song as "released" on a certain date--the latest copyright. What we need is a separate category: Initial Release or something to that effect. It is terribly misleading to list a 30-year old song as "released" in 2003. If they can't lift a finger to give us the initial release date, the least they could do is change the label to "Latest Release" or whatever.



This is indeed a PITA. Every track should have Release Date and Original Release Date.

OAW
     
LaGow  (op)
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May 18, 2005, 04:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
Considering that just a minute ago you said you did receive the goods as promised, this "if he doesn't" business seems purely hypothetical to me. I've never heard of anyone who bought something from the iTunes Music Store and never received it.
Yes, I did finally receive the goods. After a while. And a good deal of angst. I stand by what I said: if the goods aren't delivered within a reasonable amount of time, refund the money and ask the customer to check back later.

We could debate whether this is indeed hypothetical, but all you or I have is anectdotal evidence. After all, Apple is usually less than forthcoming about data of this nature. I think a more interesting discussion--at least from my point of view--is, what constitutes a "reasonable" amount of time until you get your money back? I say 20 minutes. Feel free to disagree--I'm still in rant mode and subject to emotionalism!
     
Person Man
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May 18, 2005, 05:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by LaGow
Had a problem completing a download of a song. The tune kept hanging and iTunes kept telling me to check back later. After checking back later and later, on and on, still getting the same message from iTunes, I became frustrated that this technical glitch had but one resolution as far as iTunes was concerned: the same damned dialog box requesting I check back later. This is not customer service, it's a computer programmed to initiate an automated repsonse without regard to the fact that there is a human being on the other end who has plunked down his $9.99 and feels a contract has not been fulfilled.[/i]
Did you send e-mail to customer service about the issue? I'm sure that if you had sent an e-mail saying you kept "trying later" and it wasn't working, they would have responded to you.
     
Chuckit
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May 18, 2005, 05:01 PM
 
If you get your money back forever, you should never get the music. If you get the music, you should pay the money. That's what I think.
Chuck
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jasong
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May 18, 2005, 06:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by LaGow
I say 20 minutes
20 minutes is later? How long did this whole scenario take? An hour?

That being said, yes, iTMS could be a whole lot better. I'd like to see Apple encroach on Yahoo!'s territory and build a Launch competitor, I would buy a whole lot more music that way.

Edit: BTW Apple doesn't charge your card for at least 90 minutes. I'm pretty sure it isn't until midnight actually, but I could be wrong about that.
( Last edited by jasong; May 18, 2005 at 07:37 PM. )
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LaGow  (op)
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May 18, 2005, 07:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
If you get your money back forever, you should never get the music. If you get the music, you should pay the money. That's what I think.
And that's entirely reasonable. The option is then to try again later, in which case the music must be paid for. It was never my intention to suggest customers get something for nothing. I just want an opt-out option, like at any retail store that you walk into. Here's a scenario that could happen in any brick-and-mortar outfit:

"You say you're having trouble getting that item? Fine, I'll take what you have and come back when you can get what I wanted."

"Sir, you could pay for it all now and we'll hold it for you to pick up later." (This is what iTMS does. Reasonable, but not ideal.)

"No thanks. I may change my mind and I'd like that flexibility." (This is what I'd like to see.)
     
   
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