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Konfabulator 2: Overhyped :(
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TheIceMan
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May 19, 2005, 07:48 AM
 
Ok, so I downloaded Konfabulator 2 (still on 10.3) so no dashboard. Is it me, or is anyone else unimpressed? I mean, nothing significant. I went back and deleted a bunch of useless widgets that came with purchasing the thing. the only thing semi-cool is the PIM Overview.
     
mdc
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May 19, 2005, 09:15 AM
 
i came across their new 10 day "intro" on around day 6. visited each day to keep an eye on it, and finally downloaded it this morning.

i'm on 10.4 and i see absolutely no reason why i should turn off dashboard and pay for konfabulator. i understand that some people (not me) want their widgets to show on the desktop all the time. and i don't see the greatness that is version 2 either.
     
TheIceMan  (op)
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May 19, 2005, 09:22 AM
 
So now I got a $25 time zone widget. Hey, that's what I get for being on the bleeding-edge of technology. Of course, not nearly bloody enough considering I STILL don't have Tiger. Hey at least they didn't charge for the "upgrade." Man, what a joke. I'm definitely disappointed.
     
threestain
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May 19, 2005, 09:34 AM
 
I tried it out, again, today and frankly its nothing that I haven't already got for free! Things like menu meters and such are far handier!
     
Chuckit
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May 19, 2005, 09:42 AM
 
Of course, the original Konfabulator was overhyped too, so really they're just being consistent.
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Randman
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May 19, 2005, 09:47 AM
 
If anything, this shows the gap between Dashboard and Konfabulator quite clearly.

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Gee4orce
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May 19, 2005, 12:10 PM
 
I downloaded it, tried it, and actually though to myself that Apple had the right idea separating the widgets onto a different layer !
     
eevyl
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May 19, 2005, 12:25 PM
 
I cannot do this with D*shboard, so I use Konfabulator.
     
:dragonflypro:
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May 19, 2005, 12:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by eevyl
I cannot do this with D*shboard, so I use Konfabulator.
And I think many wouldn't want too.

Konfabulator: There is no try!



edit: well, ok, she's cute.
     
eevyl
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May 19, 2005, 12:34 PM
 
Just for the heck of it, neither can I do this with D*shboard.

I already have a nice layer of stuff for my widgets, it's called the desktop and since Exposé (F11) I could see and dismish them at my fingertips.

And, of course, she's cute and I love to see her down there when she's not by my physical side
     
Busemann
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May 19, 2005, 12:42 PM
 
I don't think people who actually use their computers for something useful would want those resource hogs going on all the time
     
eevyl
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May 19, 2005, 01:20 PM
 
Yeah resource hogs, 0% CPU 99% of the time and less memory usage than D*shboard is for sure a resource hog I cannot stand for

Btw, a hint: you are not the model of the rest of the humanity, not useful for you does not mean not useful for anyone. I can clearly see how Konfabulator is useless for a lot of people that do not want/like/need that info on screen or nearly, and I respect that.
     
olePigeon
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May 19, 2005, 05:13 PM
 
If you're gonna be a Star Wars nerd, you could at least quote Yoda correctly.

"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
olePigeon
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May 19, 2005, 05:15 PM
 
Why does anyone care, anyway? Weren't they whining that the Mac market sucks, so they're going to only develop for Windows?
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you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
Mac-A-Rui
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May 19, 2005, 06:36 PM
 
I haven't upgraded to Konfabulator 2 yet but did they make it possible that you can have more then one of the same widget open, for example I have a stickie pad widget open and want another stickie pad open on the wallpaper too can you put two up. Or like the weather widget have two different locations? Anyone?
     
TheIceMan  (op)
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May 19, 2005, 06:48 PM
 
eevyl: Yes, for people who like having info displayed on their screen like how Konfabulator does it, it is fine. Like you, I respect people for their own preferences. You seem to really like Konfabultor.

For the rest, the point of this post is not about Konfabulator vs. Dashboard although it is bound to come up. Kinda hard not to bring it up.

All I'm wondering/saying is (for those who used Konfabulator 1): Do you guys/gals see any significant/big/great improvements other than slapping a version 2.0 on the title? I, for one, don't. But then again I am only a consumer and don't dabble in creating widgets. Maybe some widget authors can chime in. Because I am clueless why Arlo and Co. would continue pushing Konfabultor 2, when it seems no better than its predecessor. Is this a last-ditch effort to earn more money before they stop production? In my humble opinion, Konfabultor does not have a good future since it's more about showing off "cool-looking widgets."

As someone who registered for the earlier versions of Konfabulator (I think it's still $25), I find that the price of admission was, and still is, too high for its practical application. Don't get me wrong, I think it's pretty cool, but after a while, I'm like "Why do I have so much stuff all over my screen when I can use the menubar or just launch an application from the dock. Have I gotten so lazy that I would not want to make 2 or 3 clicks to launch the thing?"

Again, just my 2 cents.
     
SkaGoat
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May 19, 2005, 07:57 PM
 
Konfabulator also has a different layer, they call it Konspose
     
eevyl
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May 20, 2005, 02:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by TheIceMan
All I'm wondering/saying is (for those who used Konfabulator 1): Do you guys/gals see any significant/big/great improvements other than slapping a version 2.0 on the title? I, for one, don't. But then again I am only a consumer and don't dabble in creating widgets. Maybe some widget authors can chime in. Because I am clueless why Arlo and Co. would continue pushing Konfabultor 2, when it seems no better than its predecessor. Is this a last-ditch effort to earn more money before they stop production? In my humble opinion, Konfabultor does not have a good future since it's more about showing off "cool-looking widgets."
What's new in 2.0

Originally Posted by TheIceMan
As someone who registered for the earlier versions of Konfabulator (I think it's still $25), I find that the price of admission was, and still is, too high for its practical application.
Nope, version 2.0 is now $20.
     
eevyl
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May 20, 2005, 02:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon
Why does anyone care, anyway? Weren't they whining that the Mac market sucks, so they're going to only develop for Windows?
Huh, no. Konfabulator 2.0 is available for Mac and they will continue development of it AFAIK.
     
timmerk
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May 20, 2005, 08:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by eevyl
I cannot do this with D*shboard, so I use Konfabulator.
uhh, yes you can. there is a free app i saw in version tracker that lets you run them on your desktop. in addition, there is a widget dev mode you can enable to do the same thing.
     
eevyl
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May 20, 2005, 09:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by timmerk
uhh, yes you can. there is a free app i saw in version tracker that lets you run them on your desktop. in addition, there is a widget dev mode you can enable to do the same thing.
Huh no. That app is just open beta and will be shareware, so they say. And the debug mode is just to put widgets floating over all windows all the time.

Anyway, that shareware app does not allow for the widgets to be at the desktop and not catch clicks, at least not yet.
     
Randman
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May 20, 2005, 09:23 AM
 
eevyl, we all get it that you love Konfabulator. We do. We really do.

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LaGow
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May 20, 2005, 09:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by Randman
eevyl, we all get it that you love Konfabulator. We do. We really do.
He's being a perfectly polite advocate. No need to chide him. To the contrary, this thread is actually quite informative, largely due to eevyl's courteous doggedness.
     
Chuckit
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May 20, 2005, 10:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by timmerk
uhh, yes you can. there is a free app i saw in version tracker that lets you run them on your desktop.
Since the post you were replying to said "You can 't do this with Dashboard," rather than "You can't do this with a free app on VersionTracker," I don't think that's important.
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saddino
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May 20, 2005, 10:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by eevyl
Anyway, that shareware app does not allow for the widgets to be at the desktop and not catch clicks, at least not yet.
Actually, that app, Amnesty, does in fact allow Dashboard widgets to be embedded in the destkop and not catch clicks (this was added a number of builds ago).

And since yesterday's build (.75b), Amnesty also runs on Panther 10.3.9.

Just FYI.
     
Nostrildomus
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May 20, 2005, 11:11 AM
 
I happen to really enjoy the things Konfabulator has to offer. The latest release (v 2.0) offers some nice options & a few new/useful widgets. As a long time Mac users, I like to speak highly of all developers that are willing to tolerate the picky Mac folks - like me.


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umijin
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May 20, 2005, 04:53 PM
 
Well, I do serious work on my Mac - from wordprocessing to number crunching to image editting to PowerPoint (plus buttloads of music). And Konfabulator doesn't slow me down a bit.

You can say that I like Konfabulator too and the weather widget is mighty handy, even in Japan. I also use the calendar widget, and the dancing anime chick widget, and kanji of the day widget. Not system hogs at all.

Speaking of resource hogs... I haven't really seen much in Tiger to make me want to upgrade yet. And if I have to upgrade most of my apps just for Tiger compatibility (or spiffyness)- that's not gonna happen yet. The automator could be useful, but I'll manage until they fix the problems with this OS (and I can afford another 512MB of memory). And when they knock the price down under $100.

As far as the usefulness/snazziness of the new version of Konfab - It looks prettier and the upgraded weahter app is easier to read. Not a bad investment of 20 bucks for the last 9 months.
     
stuffedmonkey
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May 20, 2005, 04:59 PM
 
I second the above recommendation for Amnesty. It makes Dashboard exactly what it should have been from the start.
     
Dale Sorel
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May 20, 2005, 07:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by stuffedmonkey
I second the above recommendation for Amnesty. It makes Dashboard exactly what it should have been from the start.
I guess so... if you have the CPU cycles to spare
     
Northwind
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May 20, 2005, 08:34 PM
 
Krapfabulator over-hyped? You don't say!

Krapfabulator was always a turd floating in the punch bowl. $25 for an empty useless framework that offers nothing original, followed by the ability to download 1000 copies of the same clock widget.

Wow. Impressive.

No.

Krapfabulator users = mindless fanboys.
Reality has a liberal bias
     
SomeToast
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May 20, 2005, 09:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheIceMan
But then again I am only a consumer and don't dabble in creating widgets. Maybe some widget authors can chime in.
As a Widget author, I can tell you that 2.0 has a lot to offer.

Photoshop-esque hue, saturation and tint controls makes it easier to offer multiple themes in a Widget, without resorting to piles of separate, individually colored graphics. Multiple, dynamic timer objects makes games, animations and custom data polling easier. Interwidget communication lets you send messages between Widgets, and since it works with AppleScript, you can have other AppleScript-aware apps send messages to your Widget too.

With multiple windows, a revamped tab-based preferences system and full contextual menu support, the Widgets I'm working on feel less like "widgets" and more like full-blown applications (and I don't need to learn Cocoa to write any interface modules, either. )

Just like when 1.0 came out, it will take a bit for people to get a feel for and take advantage of the new features. But anyone who thinks Konfabulator is merely 1,000 clocks clearly hasn't been paying attention.
     
LaGow
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May 20, 2005, 09:44 PM
 
Is there someone who can explain clearly the differences between Dashboard's and Konfabulator's use of system resources? When I fire up Terminal and use top, I see the same multiple processes for Dashboard that I used to see when I ran Konfabulator. How do they differ?
     
TheIceMan  (op)
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May 20, 2005, 09:56 PM
 
SomeToast: Thanks. So, I need to be a little patient and wait for new/cool/snazzy, hopeful useful, widgets to be developed.
     
xtremekinetix
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May 20, 2005, 10:38 PM
 
For what it's worth I'll add my opinion...

I was not at all impressed with dashboard. I think that was way over-hyped. I felt no need to upgrade from 10.3.9 running Konfabulator.

Granted, K:2 is not a huge step up, but it has some nice enhancements. And it was free to upgrade.

Overall, those dudes make a sweet product, K:2 included.
     
Wiskedjak
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May 20, 2005, 10:48 PM
 
Wow ... the fanboys are really showing their colours today. Someone rips an idea off from Apple and that someone is branded evil forever; Apple rips off an idea from someone and that someone is branded evil forever ...
     
KP*
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May 20, 2005, 11:14 PM
 
I can't believe this argument is still being used:

Konfabulator people: "Dashboard sux! I want my widgets on the desktop!"
Dashboard people: "Konfabulator sux! I want my widgets on their own screen!"

Guys! BOTH APPS CAN DO BOTH THINGS!

As I see it, the only difference between them is the specific widgets that are available. I still have one favorite K widget that's not available for Dashboard yet (digital clock), so I still use both. Otherwise I would just switch to Dashboard for simplicity.
     
Chuckit
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May 20, 2005, 11:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by KP*
Konfabulator people: "Dashboard sux! I want my widgets on the desktop!"
Dashboard people: "Konfabulator sux! I want my widgets on their own screen!"

Guys! BOTH APPS CAN DO BOTH THINGS!
No, Dashboard cannot put widgets on your desktop. Konfabulator and Amnesty can do both, but Dashboard can't.
Chuck
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KP*
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May 21, 2005, 12:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
No, Dashboard cannot put widgets on your desktop. Konfabulator and Amnesty can do both, but Dashboard can't.
I'm including Amnesty as a necessary part of Dashboard having this functionality. It takes less time to go to Versiontracker and download a 376KB file than it does to get on a web forum and complain about how Dashboard doesn't have the feature.
     
Chuckit
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May 21, 2005, 12:16 AM
 
Quoth the creators of Amnesty: "Widgets loaded in Amnesty Widget Browser run completely independent of Apple's Dashboard environment."

You may as well say that Konfabulator is a fantastic spreadsheet program if you use Excel.
Chuck
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KP*
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May 21, 2005, 12:26 AM
 
Amnesty can run desktop-level widgets independently, but it has no equivalent to Konsposé. You need to also use Dashboard to get both features. Amnesty's entire function is to run Dashboard widgets, it's a compliment to Dashboard, not a spreadsheet app. It may not be as elegant as Konfabulator having it all in one app, but it does the same thing. And it's free (with Tiger, obviously).
     
Dale Sorel
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May 21, 2005, 03:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by LaGow
Is there someone who can explain clearly the differences between Dashboard's and Konfabulator's use of system resources? When I fire up Terminal and use top, I see the same multiple processes for Dashboard that I used to see when I ran Konfabulator. How do they differ?
Sure... Konfabulator is using system resources 100% of the time. Dashboard only uses system resources while it's activated.
     
eevyl
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May 21, 2005, 04:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dale Sorel
Sure... Konfabulator is using system resources 100% of the time. Dashboard only uses system resources while it's activated.
And most probably if I dare to contradict this blatant FUD, I will be the mindless fanboy
     
JeffHarris
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May 21, 2005, 04:47 AM
 
Just updated to Konfabulator 2. It seems to be much the same as version 1.8.2. There doesn't seem to be any speed hit, nor does it seem to be a processor/memory hog. I look to Safari for those attributes.

There are some nice new widgets. It's nice that the upgrade was free.

When I finally get around to upgrading to Tiger, maybe this week if I can find the time, I'll be able to compare Konfab to Dashboard. I'm sure there are plusses and minuses to both.
     
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May 21, 2005, 07:30 AM
 
Vaya con dios, w eevyl
     
technohedz
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May 21, 2005, 07:56 AM
 
K2's nagbar now extends past the NYTimes widget and isn't as easy to cover up so more people might consider buying it. Other than that, inter-widget communication at the framework level was a well needed upgrade. K2 is a wait and see what new things that aren't clocks come out type upgrade

Dashboard can put widgets on the desktop with the hack in macosxhints. It's not that big of a deal.

Amnesty is shareware that's in beta. If you want widgets on your desktop by Konfabulator; provided that you find a use for enough widgets from either platfrom to begin with.

The basic differences between Dashboard and Konfabulator are these:
Dashboard runs when you click the icon (that most people remove from the dock) and press the f12 key. When activated it updates the widgets. They are not always running and they are not always visible. They do not take up system resources when they aren't running, with the exception of the memory that is paged on demand by the OS.
Konfabulator runs all the time as a process visible in the menubar (Dashboard is a part of the dock process). K-Widgets can run on the desktop or in the konspose window (like f12 or Dashboard). Konfabulator also allows you to set aspects of display layers when on the desktop so a widget can float or embed.

In either application the widgets use resources when active. Dashboard widgets generally, although there will be rulebreakers here and there or hacks, are active only when f12 is pressed. Konfabulator widgets are active most of the time since you see them when you look at your desktop. Correctly written neither form is a serious resource waster. Both have the same type of security. You can make a malicious widget for either, but you can make a malicious program for the mac anytime you want. The main difference is applications just need you to run the installer or what 'looks' like it and give them your password (which everyone does). Dashboard widgets downloaded with Safari warn they are apps or whatever or need manual installation. If you are concerned about the security get the widgets from a trusted pier reviewed site, just like you would applications.
     
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May 21, 2005, 09:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
No, Dashboard cannot put widgets on your desktop. Konfabulator and Amnesty can do both, but Dashboard can't.
What the hell? This has always been possible with Dashboard - from the development versions to 10.4.1. Sure, you can only run one widget on the desktop at a time, and it will get sucked up to the Dashboard layer the next time you activate it, but I use it all the time with the calculator widget. Just deactivate Dashboard while dragging a widget from the widget-dock.
     
Chuckit
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May 21, 2005, 01:42 PM
 
That's a bug that (as you admit) doesn't do what we're talking about — and, in fact, the widget doesn't even run on the Desktop. It runs above other apps, which is the opposite of where your Desktop is located.
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aristotles
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May 21, 2005, 01:59 PM
 
Chuckit. Stop being such a fanboy. It's getting really old.

As a registered user of Konfabulator, I upgraded to 2.0 and I must say that I'm not impressed. I was hoping that I could do this with Konfabulator 2.0 easily.

To do the same, I have to make a "copy" of the Konfabulator weather widget for each location that I want to display weather for.

As for Amnesty. I don't see a huge distinction between it and Dashboard. It makes use of the same rendering/javascript engine IIRC.
( Last edited by aristotles; May 21, 2005 at 02:14 PM. )
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May 21, 2005, 02:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by aristotles
Chuckit. Stop being such a fanboy. It's getting really old.
A fanboy? Of what? I don't really like any of the products in this thread. Or is that just a generic insult you fall back to when you've got nothing to criticize?

Originally Posted by aristotles
As for Amnesty. I don't see a huge distinction between it and Dashboard. It makes use of the same rendering/javascript engine IIRC.
So do Safari, Shiira, Xcode, Help Viewer, etc.
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aristotles
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May 21, 2005, 02:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
A fanboy? Of what? I don't really like any of the products in this thread. Or is that just a generic insult you fall back to when you've got nothing to criticize?


So do Safari, Shiira, Xcode, Help Viewer, etc.
I'm sure the creators of Konfabulator can defend themselves, you don't need to try so damn hard. Did the guys who created Amnesty wrong you somehow, if not, stop getting so damn personal about people mentioning it here. That is why I called you a fanboy.

Did you bother to read what I wrote? I have a genuine criticism about the 2.0 release. It still does not support multiple instances of a widget without making physical copies of the widget. That is a serious limitation and one of the reasons why I'm probably only going to use Dashboard.

Yes, all of those make use of Webcore. Konfabulator does not make use of Webcore or Javascript core in any way which is part of the reason why it's so damn slow.
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Aristotle
15" rMBP 2.7 Ghz ,16GB, 768GB SSD, 64GB iPhone 5 S⃣ 128GB iPad Air LTE
     
 
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