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roosta · Aug 29, 2007, 09:43 AM

i've looked all over but haven't been able to find the gui elements for 10.5 within leopard's system. in fact what i have found are 'aqua' buttons and so forth. does anyone know where the new button and other elements of the leopard gui might be found within the system?

air · Aug 29, 2007, 06:44 PM

extras.rsrc ?

roosta · Aug 31, 2007, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by air

extras.rsrc ?

thanks, but i'm looking for the location of said extras file. it's buried in leopard's system somewhere....

cgc · Sep 1, 2007, 12:52 PM

Funny, I thought only developers received copies of Leopard, from your questions I am doubtful you're a developer.

Sandy · Sep 1, 2007, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by cgc

Funny, I thought only developers received copies of Leopard, from your questions I am doubtful you're a developer.

Now, that's a helpful post!

Kate · Sep 3, 2007, 07:25 AM

/system/library/frameworks/carbon.framework/frameworks/hitoolbox.framework/resources/extras.rsrc

roosta · Sep 3, 2007, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Kate

/system/library/frameworks/carbon.framework/frameworks/hitoolbox.framework/resources/extras.rsrc

thanks, now i can get on with my work

roosta · Sep 3, 2007, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by cgc

Funny, I thought only developers received copies of Leopard, from your questions I am doubtful you're a developer.

go here
Apple Developer Connection - Products

and all will be revealed.
you don't have to be a developer to get or need a copy. you may want to test it against any apps, networks, equipment you may have in place.
some of us like to be safe rather than sorry if we're going to be purchasing several dozen copies.

Catfish_Man · Sep 3, 2007, 05:14 PM

I doubt extras.rsrc is still being used, actually. Particularly when scaled.

Kevin · Sep 3, 2007, 08:00 PM

I doubt it too. And any theme, or theme app used in 10.4 will break in 10.5 I am pretty darn certain.

Sean Nichol · Sep 13, 2007, 07:10 PM

So, did anyone find the resources? The segment buttons, menubar and window titlebar widgets are being pulled from somewhere other than Extras. Also, the Safari toolbar buttons aren't being pulled from within Safari; I'm guessing they are also using the Seg Buttons.

Leopard 9a527

Koralatov · Sep 13, 2007, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

I doubt it too. And any theme, or theme app used in 10.4 will break in 10.5 I am pretty darn certain.

Damn. And it looks like Iridium won't be updated any more, either. I swear, Steve Jobs is doing this deliberately, just to upset me.

Atomic Rooster · Sep 14, 2007, 03:01 AM

Leopard no longer uses the extras.rsrc except maybe for legacy apps.

Themes are now in the .bundle format and there are several including aqua and a couple of others. I can't remember where they were though, possibly core services or frameworks.

Anyway to change a theme you now have to do it in a bundle not extras. As far as I could see extras has not changed from 10.4

I think the aqua one was called aqua.bundle and all the graphics were in a strange format...pdf or something.

And they may have been in a folder called 'themes'.

Sean Nichol · Sep 14, 2007, 09:07 AM

Icons are here.... /System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Resources

Still no luck with the main resources though.

Kevin · Sep 14, 2007, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by Koralatov

Damn. And it looks like Iridium won't be updated any more, either. I swear, Steve Jobs is doing this deliberately, just to upset me.

Or he is doing something that will really make Mac users happy.

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster

Leopard no longer uses the extras.rsrc except maybe for legacy apps.

Themes are now in the .bundle format and there are several including aqua and a couple of others. I can't remember where they were though, possibly core services or frameworks.

Anyway to change a theme you now have to do it in a bundle not extras. As far as I could see extras has not changed from 10.4

I think the aqua one was called aqua.bundle and all the graphics were in a strange format...pdf or something.

And they may have been in a folder called 'themes'.

Interesting...

I used to be ALL about installing all teh devs and beta OS X builds until 10.3

After that I stopped doing it. I'll wait till 10.5 comes out. Or a more stable build shows up.

I suggest EVERYONE back up and do a CLEAN install.

Koralatov · Sep 14, 2007, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Or he is doing something that will really make Mac users happy.

Getting rid of bushed metal is a definite step forward, but I'm not sure I really like the unified theme very much. I really like Iridium's off-white: it raises contrast to make Finder easier to read, and it goes better with my iMac!

Originally Posted by Kevin

I used to be ALL about installing all teh devs and beta OS X builds until 10.3

After that I stopped doing it. I'll wait till 10.5 comes out. Or a more stable build shows up.

I suggest EVERYONE back up and do a CLEAN install.

I seriously considered installing one of the dev builds on my iMac, just to get a sneak peek of Leopard, but decided to give it a miss in the end. It seemed too much hassle—I'll just wait it's released. It's less likely to cause headaches that way, and I started using a Mac because I was sick of computers causing me unnecessary headaches.

Sean Nichol · Sep 14, 2007, 05:18 PM

/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/AquaUI.bundle

Atomic Rooster · Sep 14, 2007, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by Sean Nichol

/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/AquaUI.bundle

Yeah, that's it. If that is the only theme than you must have an old build because there should be more. I remember seeing three. Their names escape me though.

Sean Nichol · Sep 14, 2007, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster

Yeah, that's it. If that is the only theme than you must have an old build because there should be more. I remember seeing three. Their names escape me though.

There is also an LeopardUI.bundle and some other packaged rsrc files..... in build 9a527

As far is I can tell the Leopard bundle and the Aqua bundle are identical.

Kevin · Sep 16, 2007, 01:15 PM

This is getting interesting.

I wonder what the theme guys are gonna do since most all their applications rely on the Extras.rsrc being edited.

swiz · Sep 16, 2007, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

This is getting interesting.

I wonder what the theme guys are gonna do since most all their applications rely on the Extras.rsrc being edited.

heh, they'll probably do what I did a while ago- take a break to wait and see if they'll stop messing with multiple interfaces and settle on a "theme" format which doesnt disuade GUI developers from sticking with it. It was a nonstop marathon of updating just to keep the old GUI's looking right. For someone with multiple themes, you would just finish updating and then the next incrmeental OS update would release and screw something up again. Forget that.

Kevin · Sep 16, 2007, 01:58 PM

OMG SWIZ! Another one of the few "originals" that used to theme in here. This is Sine aka Zimphire in case you don't know.

Originally Posted by swiz

heh, they'll probably do what I did a while ago- take a break to wait and see if they'll stop messing with multiple interfaces and settle on a "theme" format which doesnt disuade GUI developers from sticking with it.

And that is why I got out of the themeing biz as well. That and people not respecting other people's ideas/work. OS X themes take FAR too long to make, just to have someone take your work, change it a bit and call it their own.

It was a nonstop marathon of updating just to keep the old GUI's looking right. For someone with multiple themes, you would just finish updating and then the next incrmeental OS update would release and screw something up again. Forget that.

Yup

By that time I had stopped using Sosumi cause Simple Aqua was easier to update.

I still use Simple Aqua on my computer. But I don't give it out. The last time I did it was copied too. (Not that a stripe-less Aqua with refinements was an totally original idea... but I was the first to make such a theme. My transparencies weren't as transparent, and my shadows weren't as exaggerated on the windows or buttons)

The funny part about it is, Aqua now looks MUCH LIKE Simple Aqua did then.

Not that I would EVER try to say Apple copied me. That would be silly and pretentious.

They just made a more USABLE version. And doing those changes are just common sense when attempting to make it look more streamlined and usable.

If 10.5 really does get rid of the Aqua elements like I think it will (Like iTunes scroll bar type design) then I doubt I'll have a need to theme OS X.

My purpose in themeing OS X to begin with was cause I HATED Aqua. I was still in love with Platinum's simplicity and usability. If 10.5's GUI returns back to that easy on the eyes grey/black look, and gets rid of the brushed metal/stripes/gel I'll be a happy man.

Nice to see you back Swiz. Spend more time here

Disappointed to see your sig doesn't link to a site.

swiz · Sep 16, 2007, 02:33 PM

Yeah, I've got a two year old son now, a new house which brings lots of projects and work is busy as ever so I don't get much time for design anymore these days. Its always on my mind though and as most things cycle, Im sure I'll kick something out at some point

I was pretty bummed when I decided not to keep the site up but I knew I had no time to take on any other projects.

These forums are looking pretty slick these days. Macnn is by far the most helpful group of mac users around. Bar-none!

0157988944 · Sep 16, 2007, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by swiz

Macnn is by far the most helpful group of mac users around. Bar-none!

QFT.

digitaljames · Sep 16, 2007, 03:30 PM

I think I just dropped a tear.....

now we just need Max and Izawa to come by.....

Kevin · Sep 17, 2007, 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by swiz

Yeah, I've got a two year old son now

Didnt have to say anymore

, a new house which brings lots of projects and work is busy as ever so I don't get much time for design anymore these days. Its always on my mind though and as most things cycle, Im sure I'll kick something out at some point

I was pretty bummed when I decided not to keep the site up but I knew I had no time to take on any other projects.

These forums are looking pretty slick these days. Macnn is by far the most helpful group of mac users around. Bar-none!

It has it's Jekyl and Hyde moments.

Originally Posted by digitaljames

I think I just dropped a tear.....

now we just need Max and Izawa to come by.....

They really weren't a part of the FIRST wave of themers in here. They came into the scene a bit later. After OS X had came out. Not that I wouldn't welcome them.

There was a group of us that came here and started theming OS X BEFORE the public beta days. And it was a chore. It really didn't get easier till Sprocket came out IMHO.

By the time 10.2 came out, most people that started with the theming stopped. Apple kept changing things and it made it a bitch to keep up. (The extras.rsrc has THOUSANDS of images to edit. And some are very obscure)

G0Ducks · Sep 17, 2007, 05:44 PM

Nice to see you in here again Swiz

Been a long long time!

R

eyevaan · Sep 18, 2007, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by digitaljames

now we just need Max and Izawa to come by.....

ditto

- THAT made me laugh out loud... mymy so many travelers.

@swiz - congrats on the family kids and all - the ulimate UI overhaul to anyone's life.

roosta · Sep 19, 2007, 05:35 PM

we're going to be spending a lot of time theming toolbar and menu elements with illustrator.
much of the ui is still built with photoshop though.

ought to be quite the challenge.

Kevin · Sep 20, 2007, 06:13 AM

Yeah but the vector images look TONS better than raster for such things.

roosta · Sep 20, 2007, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Yeah but the vector images look TONS better than raster for such things.

i wholeheartedly agree

Mithras · Sep 20, 2007, 08:56 PM

Has anyone tried poking around with the various XML files? It'd be terribly interesting if changing properties like
highlightMaterialName: glasshighlightmaterial
or
inlayMaterialBlur: 0.0
or
buttonStretchPoint: 0.5
or
outlineOpacity: 0.40

actually had an effect...

Kevin · Oct 6, 2007, 06:46 AM

If so, someone should start making a theme app that changes these files. One that say, was open source maybe. One that didn't require you to install a APE like hack.

bishopazrael · Oct 12, 2007, 04:04 PM

Hey Swiz,
I gotta say, hands down far and away I gotta say your theme with the jet engine was my favorite of all time! Just looking at that turbo fan as an icon for my second drive was a kick in the pants.

anyways, good luck with life and such, I know it takes up all the time and energy and stuff but it's worth it!

B

Kevin · Oct 15, 2007, 06:07 AM

It's not really worth it when you spend lots of time doing a theme, only for other "themers" to copy your idea, change it a tad and then call it their own. And when questioned bout it, act ignorant.

There is no sure fire way to keep this from happening. So the few people that are disrespectful to themers ruin it for those that are not.

Then again I remember a time when ALL theme makers, and such were free.

I think it's kinda dodgy that theme coding machines and the like cost money for the themer, yet the themer makes no money off his theme. If there were no themers, those charging for applications would never be able to make money.

And since there is NO WAY any company making money off a product is going to redistribute some of that money to themers, I don't see this as really being fair.

Everyone involved should make money out of it, or no one at all. IMHO.

After all, if themers stopped themeing, these apps would be worthless.

G0Ducks · Oct 15, 2007, 11:42 AM

It is this argument that has persisted since the dawn of paid themeing... It's a rock and a hard place really; themeing OS X is a pain no matter how you look at it. We themers gave the SS coders incentives to make a themeing app so that we could have themes on our systems, thusly releasing our complete hold over the direction of themeing.

The only way that themeing will return back to the themers is if a generous coder out there creates a themeing app for free; one that trumps SS.

You have to realize that if a coder has a small market, even one as small as ours, they can and should be able to make money on their efforts.
However, to be fair, coders have to realize the value in the artists working to make their apps complete and give a break on the price.

Chicken + Chicken = egg

R

Originally Posted by Kevin

It's not really worth it when you spend lots of time doing a theme, only for other "themers" to copy your idea, change it a tad and then call it their own. And when questioned bout it, act ignorant. ...

Chuckit · Oct 15, 2007, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

I think it's kinda dodgy that theme coding machines and the like cost money for the themer, yet the themer makes no money off his theme. If there were no themers, those charging for applications would never be able to make money.

I understand your desire to make money, but it's immaterial to whether or not they should. If I don't use my computer to make money, should Apple give it to me for free? If I don't use a video game to make money (indeed, I usually don't), should the video game company give it to me for free?

Simply put, whether you make money with the program is entirely up to you and your ability to come up with a profitable business model. That is none of the theme software developer's business.

Originally Posted by Kevin

After all, if themers stopped themeing, these apps would be worthless.

Yes, and if everybody stopped playing Xbox Live, the Xbox would be worthless. Yet nobody demands that Microsoft pay them for producing content. It just doesn't work like that.

If you really feel strongly that the software should be free, nobody's stopping you from writing it yourself. The fact that nobody has done so would seem to indicate that it isn't feasible.

Kevin · Oct 15, 2007, 02:53 PM

All I am saying is, without the themes, the application is worthless. And now there is only one or two themes you can install that doesn't REQUIRE you to use SS.

And I've never tried to make money off my themes. Nor would I.

And there have been quit a few theme making applications out there that was giving their code out for free. Then it all became a big corporate thing where you HAD to install certain software to even run themes.

I said long ago that it would stagnate theme development. And I think I was correct.

We may have had less OPTIONS before, but things were better over all. It made us think of creative ways to make themes work.

We were attempting to make it so not one company "ruled" themes like it was in the Kaleidoscope days. We already had an "engine" and a modifier.

For those of you that was part of the early early themeing community in here, you know what I am talking about. For those of you that weren't, I am sorry you missed out.

Chuckit · Oct 15, 2007, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

All I am saying is, without the themes, the application is worthless. And now there is only one or two themes you can install that doesn't REQUIRE you to use SS.

And I've never tried to make money off my themes. Nor would I.

And there have been quit a few theme making applications out there that was giving their code out for free. Then it all became a big corporate thing where you HAD to install certain software to even run themes.

Maybe I've misunderstood, but didn't it become that way because the "big corporation" (eh, I guess you can call Geekspiff that, for very small values of "big") won out through honest competition? I mean, you still had the option of doing it the same way as before, but people chose not to, right?

Kevin · Oct 15, 2007, 03:26 PM

How was one supposed to do it the other way when people had SS installed for the other themes?

Visualize · Oct 26, 2007, 05:22 PM

Hey guys, can I revive this thread? I guess I just did

Where in Leopard can I find the RSS-feed icon that Safari uses? The favicon for RSS feeds so to speak. It used to be in System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/SyndicationUI.framework - if i'm not mistaken, but I recently looked there and cannot locate it. I just want to change the feed icon in Safari until NewsFire2 surfaces. I changed the icon once and should be able to do it again, no? Last time I checked it was a 16px tiff file. And by the looks of things I has not changed. It's still the crappy feedicon that was in OS X 10.4.

Thank you for any information that can lead to success.

Kevin · Oct 26, 2007, 10:17 PM

You talking about this?

Visualize · Oct 27, 2007, 07:11 AM

Sadly not that one. It's these little favicons that occur if subscribed to RSS feeds in Safari. If you have any, try looking in your Bookmarks window and the All RSS feeds section.

It's this little "newspaper" image I want to change. I might have overlooked it while browsing.

Thanks though

Kevin · Oct 27, 2007, 07:29 AM

It's probably stored were all your fav icons are...

"/Users/yourusername/Library/Safari/Icons"

Not positive how to edit those.

DankOnlee21 · Oct 31, 2007, 11:05 PM

This interface that Leopard uses is nothing short of primitive. Can't the brilliant minds at Apple come up with something better than rainbow colored circles? When it comes to personalizing and customizing any aspect of the Mac interface or experience for that matter, for lack of a better word SUCKS. It's okay if they do not want people skinning and theming with ease (I dont know why since personalization was Macs ONLY ace card) they could do a little bit better than this. I know all of you hate windows or vista but seriously, this Leopard is RIDICULOUSLY UGLY. Right off the bat, Vista's Aero absolutely KILLS Mac's defaults. Since switching to Mac I have never been so disappointed. Seriously, this OS sucks.
I wont riddle the forum with my negativity any more.
Bye-Bye Mac.

0157988944 · Oct 31, 2007, 11:09 PM

Mac OS X has always used "Rainbow Colored Circles." Are they hard to understand for you? "Theming" has always sucked. I don't think Leopard can be called ugly. It isn't flashy (mostly) or transparent everywhere, but it's not ugly.

Seriously, if you are leaving Mac (which you apparently bought even though it's "only ace card" was personalization) just because you cannot change the color of windows or something, then perhaps you SHOULD be using Windows...

(Yes, I know I'm feeding the troll.)

Tesseract · Nov 1, 2007, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by Visualize

Hey guys, can I revive this thread? I guess I just did

Where in Leopard can I find the RSS-feed icon that Safari uses? The favicon for RSS feeds so to speak. It used to be in System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/SyndicationUI.framework - if i'm not mistaken, but I recently looked there and cannot locate it. I just want to change the feed icon in Safari until NewsFire2 surfaces. I changed the icon once and should be able to do it again, no? Last time I checked it was a 16px tiff file. And by the looks of things I has not changed. It's still the crappy feedicon that was in OS X 10.4.

Thank you for any information that can lead to success.

/System/Library/Frameworks/PubSub.framework/Resources/PubSubAgent.app/Contents/Resources/favicon.tif

Visualize · Nov 3, 2007, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by Tesseract

/System/Library/Frameworks/PubSub.framework/Resources/PubSubAgent.app/Contents/Resources/favicon.tif

WOW! Thank you so much.

No wonder I couldn't find it.. it was hidden inside an application this time. Bad Apple, bad!

Now to change that icon of Doom. I have one that Jon Hicks did for his OmniWeb replacement set.