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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > What doYOU think should be done with North Korea?

View Poll Results: What should be done with North Korea?
Poll Options:
Tell them that what they are doing is wrong, but do nothing further. 0 votes (0%)
Keep adding on new sanctions... eventually they will have to comply. 4 votes (20.00%)
Send in some snipers and kill their leader. 4 votes (20.00%)
Send in the bomber planes and destroy their nuclear facilities. 7 votes (35.00%)
Start a full scale war against the country.. they need to be taken out! 1 votes (5.00%)
Nothing. They are an independent country and can do what they want. 4 votes (20.00%)
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll
What doYOU think should be done with North Korea? (Page 3)
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Doofy
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Jul 6, 2009, 05:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Christ.
You're supposed to be Christian. Stop blaspheming.
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shifuimam
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Jul 6, 2009, 06:10 AM
 
I can't help it. If only online gambling were more accessible in the United States- then I might have a mere taste of true freedom!

This oppressive, tyrannical regime is almost more than I can bear. If God truly existed, He couldn't possibly have allowed me to born in as miserable and freedom-less a place as America.

Woe, woe is me! I must immediately begin searching for a place to live where I can have true freedom - freedom I can barely stand to dream about as a citizen of the People's Republic of America.

My heart aches for freedom.
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Jul 6, 2009, 07:02 AM
 
You're the one who has to post tax questions to Internet forums, Shif, not I. That's because I don't live under a regime which has a zillion word tax code which the government expects everyone to read and understand.

Brainwashed, I tells ya.

You're a slave to your government. You just don't know it. Nothing unusual there.
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shifuimam
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Jul 6, 2009, 07:17 AM
 
I know. My heart is dying. I'm losing the will to live. I would sell my soul to be free. I can't even begin to imagine freedom. The dictatorship under which I am forced to live makes me weep with sorrow. If only I could leave! If only I could escape! Woe! Woe! WOE!
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Jul 6, 2009, 07:20 AM
 
Be careful what you wish for shif. You might just get it sooner than you think.
     
shifuimam
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Jul 6, 2009, 07:26 AM
 
I spit on those who think that their oppression is great, with no personal freedoms, forced labor camps, and an imposition of a death sentence for speaking out against their leaders! Those things are but child's play compared to the great, horrible, unendurable pain and oppression of a complicated tax code!

Dear God, save me from the agony of the United States! Help me! Save me! I don't understand my taxes! Liberate me and send me to a country where electricity is scarce and media is wholly government-owned and religion is imposed upon the citizens! Please! Send me somewhere else! I cannot take it any longer!

North Korea doesn't have sh!t on the United States, after all. Those people are living in a paradise compared to the unspeakable hell and torture that is the United States.
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Jul 6, 2009, 07:29 AM
 
Indeed.

So with that said can't you understand people's determination to keep it that way? The path to that standard of living is a slope, one which is far easier to slip down than climb up.
     
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Jul 6, 2009, 07:32 AM
 
Did you know that in the Land Of The Freeā„¢, the death penalty is still available for those caught growing a bit of weed?
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shifuimam
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Jul 6, 2009, 08:06 AM
 
By "a bit", you do mean 1,000 kilos (roughly 2200 US pounds) or 1000 plants, right?

Could you please provide some hard statistics on the number of marijuana growers in the United States who were sentenced to death row and executed for the cultivation of marijuana?

In the meantime, I'm looking into North Korean citizenship. Those pansies shouldn't be complaining about forced labor camps and sadistic torture. Who needs hell when you have the United States?
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Doofy
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Jul 6, 2009, 08:17 AM
 
So, Shif, how do you propose that The Land Of The Freeā„¢ tackles North Korea? Bit of a war, eh?

Are you going to have a draft and force young folks to go get killed?
Or are you just going to force folks to pay for other folks to get killed?
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Jul 6, 2009, 08:19 AM
 
I think we should just nuke the United States. We need to rid the planet of this tyrannical regime and the utter scourge that this country is.

I've been begging and pleading with God, asking Him why he allowed me to be born in such a terrible place. I must conceal my citizenship, for I am terrified of the torment that will befall me if anyone finds out I'm an American citizen.
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Jul 6, 2009, 08:22 AM
 
This thread needs a "This thread needs more LiveJournal" pic
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Doofy
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Jul 6, 2009, 08:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I think we should just nuke the United States. We need to rid the planet of this tyrannical regime and the utter scourge that this country is.

I've been begging and pleading with God, asking Him why he allowed me to be born in such a terrible place. I must conceal my citizenship, for I am terrified of the torment that will befall me if anyone finds out I'm an American citizen.
Hmmm, sarcasm. What a fantastic way to avoid discussing the truth of the matter.

The fact is, Shif, everyone here (especially the non-Amerikans) can see that you're simply being a reactionary, brainwashed Gopper with no valid answers.

Really, tell me again why citizens of The Land Of The Free can't have a bit of a gamble online (you know, do what they want to do with their money). The only answer possible is that you're not free. It's an illusion.

Say, can you Amerikans in your freedom buy a main battle tank and drive it down the local high street? I can. And yet we don't keep banging on about being free. Strange, no? The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
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Jul 6, 2009, 09:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Say, can you Amerikans in your freedom buy a main battle tank
Now this thread needs a regular old "This thread is awesome" pic
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shifuimam
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Jul 6, 2009, 09:29 AM
 
I suppose if you want to be as literal as possible about freedom, then nobody is free. After all, I'm not freely allowed to legally copy music, am I? Isn't it reprehensible (nay, hypocritical!) that you support copyright laws? Those very laws are infringing on my freedom to buy a CD, copy it, and distribute it freely across the Internet! How dare you!

Your comparison of the United States to North Korea was insane, Doofy. The same would be said of comparing pretty much any first-world country on the planet to North Korea. I get it. You don't like the US, you think we're a bunch of twats, and you want us to play in our own sandbox. Comparing us to one of the worst dictatorships in modern history is ridiculous.

Do you have laws in the United Kingdom? Because unless your country is in a state of complete anarchy then you, too, are not free. If you want to define "freedom" to an extreme, that you have no restrictions on anything whatsoever, then sure - nobody's free, and we should all revolt against all kinds of order and government, because any rules are an infringement on our freedoms.

If you support this, great. I don't, however, and I see "freedom" from the broader lens of the kind of freedoms afforded in the U.S. Constitution - you know, things like freedom of speech and religion. Freedom to say what I want without worrying about my country's leader hanging me up in thumbscrews for saying he's a toolbag. Freedom to believe in God, Xenu, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster without concern that the government will punish me severely for speaking out against their mandated deity.

But hey, according to you, laws about who can own tanks and howitzers and how one may gamble their money are as oppressive as laws suppressing any and all dissent against a tyrannical leader, right? Paying taxes is the same as being born in a forced labor camp and forced to watch your sister and brother murdered before your own eyes, according to your so-called logic.

I'm surprised you call yourself a Christian. I can't imagine you being capable of submitting yourself to such tyrannical absolutes like "don't lie" and "don't murder". How dare God infringe on your freedoms!
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Jul 6, 2009, 09:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Your comparison of the United States to North Korea was insane, Doofy.
That's true. North Korea hasn't invaded any other countries for at least 50 years.

Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I don't, however, and I see "freedom" from the broader lens of the kind of freedoms afforded in the U.S. Constitution - you know, things like freedom of speech and religion.
Right then, let's see how good your constitution is. Start a religion right now which requires you to carry a loaded ceremonial AK47 with you at all times (you know, like the Sikhs with their daggers) and let's see how much freedom of religion you have.

Yes, that's right - your constitution is worth less than the Andrex in my bathroom.
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Jul 6, 2009, 10:15 AM
 
I'm curious - why are you so intent on this crusade to show Americans how little freedom they have?

No, I can't create a new religion that requires human sacrifice or sexual intercourse with a child. This does not mean that I don't have religious freedom, in the sane and reasonable description of the concept.

Again - you seem to think that "freedom" means anarchy - no laws, no regulations, nothing. Just complete and utter anarchy, where everyone does anything they want and there are no protections afforded to anyone under law, because law doesn't exist.

Do you legitimately believe that life in North Korea is better than life in the United States? What about the United Kingdom? By your own logic, your country doesn't give you much more freedom than mine, so how is yours any better?

Why are you in favor of copyright protections on music? Is this not a law infringing on freedom?
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Jul 6, 2009, 10:19 AM
 
Good lord...I just realized that arguing with you is like expecting MacGeek2005 to say anything remotely mature.

I must be really tired. Damn insomnia.

Enjoy your lack of freedom, your hatred for other countries, and your apparent bitterness toward Americans who define freedom in less....literal terms. Your life must suck.

I'd recommend renouncing Christianity. It's the opposite of freedom by your book.
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Doofy
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Jul 6, 2009, 10:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
No, I can't create a new religion that requires human sacrifice or sexual intercourse with a child. This does not mean that I don't have religious freedom, in the sane and reasonable description of the concept.
So, you have religious freedom only as long as your owners are OK with the practice of that religion? Great. That's a bit like the bit where your right to carry and bear arms is only infringed a little, depending on government whim.

Where's it say that in the constitution? Oh, right, it doesn't. Admit it - your constitution is a hollow, meaningless document which hasn't been adhered to for the best part of a century yet you like to quote it often because doing so maintains the illusion of your freedom.

Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
By your own logic, your country doesn't give you much more freedom than mine, so how is yours any better?
Well, i suspect it's because it doesn't keep banging on about being the land of the free every five minutes. Like I said up there.

Remove that line from your anthem, I'll stop pointing out how wrong it is.
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Jul 6, 2009, 10:30 AM
 
Again - by your logic, any laws mean no freedom.

So why are you for copyright law? Why do you believe in the Bible? These are things that heavily restrict freedom.

Why do you care so much whether or not Americans use the word "freedom"? Why do you give a sh!t at all? You don't live here - my definition of freedom has absolutely no implications on your life or well-being. First-amendment rights are alive and kicking.

Unless you can explain to me how you can believe in the Bible and support copyright law - two things you appear to feel strongly about - and still say that laws don't unequivocally infringe on your freedoms.

Or perhaps you're insinuating that all countries are as oppressive as North Korea, simply because they have laws? Should we allow the rape of innocent children to be legal in the name of religion? If not, why not?
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Jul 6, 2009, 10:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I must be really tired. Damn insomnia.
I was guessing "rag week". But insomnia will do.

Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Enjoy your lack of freedom, your hatred for other countries,
Hatred for other countries? I don't remember mentioning France or Germany or Andorra or Peru or Costa Rica or Portugal or New Zealand. Hey, guess what - they don't keep banging on about how free they are.

Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
and your apparent bitterness toward Americans who define freedom in less....literal terms.
Ahhh, so this freedom is a sliding scale? There's no absolute? That's convenient, isn't it?

May I suggest a change in lyrics then? You know, from "land of the free and the home of the brave" to "land of the more free than North Korea but slightly less free than anywhere in the EU and most of South America and the home of the brave". I even think that might have a chance of fitting if you got a really fast rapper to sing it.

Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Your life must suck.
Yes, I imagine that in your mind's eye, everyone who doesn't live in the land of the free must have a life which sucks. Get a passport, dude.

I agree. I must be missing out on lots of fun working out which 401 is right for me or whether the IRS is going to fine me for underestimating next years' taxes.

Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I'd recommend renouncing Christianity. It's the opposite of freedom by your book.
Oh yeah. Christianity's all about doing what other men tell you to do. It's all about taking notice of the pharisees. Amen.
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harbinger75
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Jul 6, 2009, 10:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
So, you have religious freedom only as long as your owners are OK with the practice of that religion? Great. That's a bit like the bit where your right to carry and bear arms is only infringed a little, depending on government whim.

Where's it say that in the constitution? Oh, right, it doesn't. Admit it - your constitution is a hollow, meaningless document which hasn't been adhered to for the best part of a century yet you like to quote it often because doing so maintains the illusion of your freedom.



Well, i suspect it's because it doesn't keep banging on about being the land of the free every five minutes. Like I said up there.

Remove that line from your anthem, I'll stop pointing out how wrong it is.
Ok, Doofy...you're an anarchist, and we all get that. Find and dandy. But, Shi loves her country and, no matter what arguments have been used, that's the way she feels. I, too, happen to love the country I live in. Am I blind to governmental operations? No. Am I under the false impression that everything is unicorns and rainbows in the U.S.? Not by a long shot. I DO know, however, that I lead a very nice life with my wife and kids, and I DO know that if I were living in Iran or any other of a slew of oppressive, dictatorial countries, I would NOT be living the life I currently do.

If you like to play with dolls, wear lipstick and slap your own @ss with a riding crop, then be my guest. I'm not going to ridicule you for that. So, as feverish as Shi's rebuttals have been, she simply adores her country. There is nothing wrong with that.
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shifuimam
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Jul 6, 2009, 10:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by harbinger75 View Post
Ok, Doofy...you're an anarchist, and we all get that. Find and dandy. But, Shi loves her country and, no matter what arguments have been used, that's the way she feels. I, too, happen to love the country I live in. Am I blind to governmental operations? No. Am I under the false impression that everything is unicorns and rainbows in the U.S.? Not by a long shot. I DO know, however, that I lead a very nice life with my wife and kids, and I DO know that if I were living in Iran or any other of a slew of oppressive, dictatorial countries, I would NOT be living the life I currently do.

If you like to play with dolls, wear lipstick and slap your own @ss with a riding crop, then be my guest. I'm not going to ridicule you for that. So, as feverish as Shi's rebuttals have been, she simply adores her country. There is nothing wrong with that.
Not so much feverish as sleep-deprived.

We're going on 26 hours with no sleep. Whoohoo!
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Jul 6, 2009, 10:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Why do you believe in the Bible? These are things that heavily restrict freedom.
Umm, no. The Bible doesn't heavily restrict freedom. Not the Christian bit of it, anyway. I realise that as an Amerikan you probably can't tell the difference between "Christianity" and "Judaism" but I assure you, there is one.

Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Why do you care so much whether or not Americans use the word "freedom"? Why do you give a sh!t at all? You don't live here - my definition of freedom has absolutely no implications on your life or well-being.
I've told you several times now that the actions of your idiots in government directly affect those countries where I stash my money. That's what it's got to do with me. Your fascist government system telling sovereign states how to do business "or else" directly affects my investment operations.
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Jul 6, 2009, 10:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by harbinger75 View Post
SNIP

as feverish as Shi's rebuttals have been, she simply adores her country. There is nothing wrong with that.
You don't get Doofy's point either. He is not opposed to Shif's adoration for her country, he is opposed to her adoration for the country that willfully ignores major flaws in how the country operates. He is opposed to Shif talking about how great her country is--especially the freedom she enjoys in her country--yet Shif being unable or unwilling to see the short-comings of those espoused freedoms.

What Doofy is *really* against is cognitive dissonance. He is against the mentality of Shif making statements about the personal freedoms she enjoys as a citizen of the United States while Shif does not acknowledge all the information that points out how her statements are false.
( Last edited by dcmacdaddy; Jul 6, 2009 at 10:49 AM. Reason: for clairty of thought.)
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Jul 6, 2009, 10:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Umm, no. The Bible doesn't heavily restrict freedom. Not the Christian bit of it, anyway. I realise that as an Amerikan you probably can't tell the difference between "Christianity" and "Judaism" but I assure you, there is one.
Wait, wait, so God doesn't care if you lie, steal, rape, cheat on your spouse, or commit blasphemy?

It all makes sense now!

I'm sorry that you hate the United States government for what they may be doing to foreign investments, but that doesn't mean you need to hate on every citizen of said country.

You still haven't explained how you can support the freedom-restricting copyright laws to which you hold so vehemently. After all, telling me what I can and can't do with the music I've purchased is the very opposite of freedom, is it not?
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Jul 6, 2009, 10:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by harbinger75 View Post
So, as feverish as Shi's rebuttals have been, she simply adores her country. There is nothing wrong with that.
...Unless it's blind love. Which leads to all sorts of donkeyorificeishness.

This is why the rest of the World laughs at the US. You bang on about freedom but then you can't smoke a doobie without risking becoming Bubba's girlfriend. It doesn't add up. It's... ...inconsistent and hypocritical.
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Jul 6, 2009, 10:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I'm sorry that you hate the United States government for what they may be doing to foreign investments, but that doesn't mean you need to hate on every citizen of said country.
I don't hate on every citizen of said country (there are some mighty fine people in Amerika). Just the ones who don't get it. Like yourself.
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Jul 6, 2009, 10:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy View Post
You don't get Doofy's point either. He is not opposed to Shif's adoration for her country, he is opposed to her adoration for the country that willfully ignores major flaws in how the country operates. He is opposed to Shif talking about how great her country is--especially the freedom she enjoys in her country--yet Shif being unable or unwilling to see the short-comings of those espoused freedoms.

What Doofy is *really* against is cognitive dissonance. He is against the mentality of Shif making statements about the personal freedoms she enjoys as a citizen of the United States while Shif does not acknowledge all the information that points out how her statements are false.
Amen.
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Jul 6, 2009, 10:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy View Post
You don't get Doofy's point either. He is not opposed to Shif's adoration for her country, he is opposed to her adoration for the country that willfully ignores major flaws in how the country operates. He is opposed to Shif talking about how great her country is--especially the freedom she enjoys in her country--yet Shif being unable or unwilling to see the short-comings of those espoused freedoms.

What Doofy is *really* against is cognitive dissonance. He is against the mentality of Shif making statement A about personal freedom while Shif does not acknowledge all the information that points out how statement A is false.
Actually, I've pretty well-defined what I mean. I define "freedom of religion" far less literally than Doofy does.

I see freedom of religion for what is reasonably is - that the government can't tell me I must believe in something, or that I'm not permitted to believe in something. To take that to an extreme - that we have no freedom of religion because, say, the government bans sexual intercourse with a child and therefore bans any religion that requires such an act - is a bit nonsensical, is it not?

Yes, the United States is not run by anarchy. There are certain things you cannot do. Those laws do not universally restrict all personal freedoms. The laws in the United States are by no means on the same playing field or planet as the kind of laws enforced in a brutal regime like that of North Korea. To say that we have as little freedom in the United States (or the United Kingdom, or Switzerland, or Spain, or Australia, or Canada, or Germany, or France, or any other non-communist first-world country) as North Korea is nonsensical.

The only thing I've gotten from Doofy's posts is that a lack of certain freedoms translates into a lack of all freedom.

The United States offers freedom of religion and freedom of speech - the government does not mandate that we will be punished for believing in God, Allah, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The government does not control the media - in fact, it's quite the opposite. The FCC has a narrow field of control in regards to obscenity in media, but the government does not maintain a chokehold on the media. You can find a variety of opinions about current events on TV, whereas in a country like North Korea, broadcasts are nothing but propaganda created by and in support of the regime.

I don't equate freedom with anarchy. In Doofy's mind, statement A is false because he takes A to a very literal extreme. I doubt that most Americans would say "the first amendment is a lie! the government doesn't allow religious beliefs that require human sacrifice!", don't you?
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Jul 6, 2009, 10:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
I don't hate on every citizen of said country (there are some mighty fine people in Amerika). Just the ones who don't get it. Like yourself.
And someone doesn't get sarcasm.

I don't see the Constitution as a "hollow document that means nothing". Sorry. If that makes you think I'm a brainwashed drone of the imperial great satan, what-the-****-ever.

So, Doofy, why do you support freedom-infringing laws?
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Jul 6, 2009, 11:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Actually, I've pretty well-defined what I mean. I define "freedom of religion" far less literally than Doofy does.
And far less literally than your constitution does.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
So, if my religion requires me to carry that loaded ceremonial AK47 and your laws tell me that I can't do so, you've made a law prohibiting the free exercise of my religion.

Your constitution is worthless.

Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Yes, the United States is not run by anarchy. There are certain things you cannot do.
Like gamble, marry more than one person at a time, marry your gay friend, drink beer (back in the day), smoke a doobie, get your boobies out on Malibu Beach, control any kind of foreign corporation without giving the IRS complete details, drive a tank down your high street, move to another country and not pay your federal tax bill, not give up your citizenship to move to an unapproved country, smoke a Cuban cigar, smoke in a bar, have a bunch of cash that the government doesn't know the source of, yadda yadda yadda.

Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
The only thing I've gotten from Doofy's posts is that a lack of certain freedoms translates into a lack of all freedom.
You tout yourself as the land of the free, yet a Dutch citizen has more freedoms than you.

Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
The United States offers freedom of religion and freedom of speech - the government does not mandate that we will be punished for believing in God, Allah, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Your constitution doesn't say that you shouldn't be punished for such things - it says that no laws can be made prohibiting the free exercise of your religion. That's not the same thing at all.
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Jul 6, 2009, 11:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
So, Doofy, why do you support freedom-infringing laws?
What freedom-infringing laws are those, Shif?
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Jul 6, 2009, 11:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
smoke in a bar
To be fair, there are more bars in the US where you can smoke (whole states of 'em!) than there are in the UK.
     
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Jul 6, 2009, 11:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
To be fair, there are more bars in the US where you can smoke (whole states of 'em!) than there are in the UK.
I know, I know. But then the UK doesn't profess to be The Land Of The Freeā„¢.
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Jul 6, 2009, 12:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy View Post
You don't get Doofy's point either. He is not opposed to Shif's adoration for her country, he is opposed to her adoration for the country that willfully ignores major flaws in how the country operates. He is opposed to Shif talking about how great her country is--especially the freedom she enjoys in her country--yet Shif being unable or unwilling to see the short-comings of those espoused freedoms.

What Doofy is *really* against is cognitive dissonance. He is against the mentality of Shif making statements about the personal freedoms she enjoys as a citizen of the United States while Shif does not acknowledge all the information that points out how her statements are false.
Actually, I get Doofy's "point" just fine. However, there is little or no differentiation between his hatred of those who love their country and those who love their country blindly and without pause. His statements have blurred any line between the two.

I cannot speak for Shif, nor would I pretend that I know exactly what takes place between her mind and the keyboard. What I CAN say, however, is that EVERY country has pluses and minuses, and I'm thankful I live in the United States, and really don't care what other countries think of me or where I live. If the leaders of the United States make it difficult for Doofy and his money abroad, then cry me a damned river. Sounds like a personal problem to me.

I didn't have a choice where I was born, and I really don't see any reason to move elsewhere just because I disagree with my leaders in part. Just because a forum goon dismantles every typed word of everybody else because he has a bone to pick with their government, that sure as hell doesn't mean I should close up shop and move out of the country.

If he likes where he lives, then that is great. If he doesn't, well, he can move if he wants. He seems to have an issue with authority and government in general, and that's fine, too. I don't agree with my leaders all the time. But, I don't have a problem with the way my life has played out (aside from personal choices of which I have nobody else to blame), and I'm perfectly happy living here in the U.S.

I guess that makes me a mindless drone, eh Doofy?
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Jul 6, 2009, 12:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by harbinger75 View Post
If the leaders of the United States make it difficult for Doofy and his money abroad, then cry me a damned river. Sounds like a personal problem to me.
That's the problem, see.

Amerika is getting all up in arms about (umm... let's see) North Korea, Venezuela, Honduras, South Ossetia, Cuba, Afghanistan, Serbia, etc., etc..

Last I looked, none of those countries was playing the big bully boy towards other sovereign states who don't quite see eye-to-eye with their way of doing business. Guess who is. That's right - that good ol' beacon of hope and freedom, Amerika.

I ask again, how exactly does Barry intend to "close tax havens down" without trundling a formation of M1 Abrams up the Road Town high street?

If you can't see that Amerika is simply a fat pimply teenager which likes to throw its weight around whilst preaching freedom (as long as it's Amerikan style freedom and doesn't interfere with offloading the national debt onto whoever's stupid enough to do business with it) then you're lost. The rest of the World laughs at you.

Originally Posted by harbinger75 View Post
I guess that makes me a mindless drone, eh Doofy?
Yes, actually. DC hit the nail on the head.
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Jul 6, 2009, 12:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Please explain. I know personally several families who lived in Pakistan as Christian missionaries and eventually had to leave because the threat on their very lives was far too great.
Yes, but that's Pakistan. You can't look at Christians being harassed in Pakistan and say, "If America had an overbearing government, Christians would be brutally persecuted." Like I said, there's a crucial difference you don't seem to be considering: Pakistan is run by Muslims, while America is run by Christians. It would be the Christians persecuting everybody else in a draconian regime over here.

So let's think: Has America had a leader within our lifetime who has said something like, "I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God"? Why, yes, we have.

It's not like Pakistan, but my point is just that if America does go further in that direction, it isn't the Christians who have to worry.
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Jul 6, 2009, 01:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
That's the problem, see.

Amerika is getting all up in arms about (umm... let's see) North Korea, Venezuela, Honduras, South Ossetia, Cuba, Afghanistan, Serbia, etc., etc..

Last I looked, none of those countries was playing the big bully boy towards other sovereign states who don't quite see eye-to-eye with their way of doing business. Guess who is. That's right - that good ol' beacon of hope and freedom, Amerika.

I ask again, how exactly does Barry intend to "close tax havens down" without trundling a formation of M1 Abrams up the Road Town high street?

If you can't see that Amerika is simply a fat pimply teenager which likes to throw its weight around whilst preaching freedom (as long as it's Amerikan style freedom and doesn't interfere with offloading the national debt onto whoever's stupid enough to do business with it) then you're lost. The rest of the World laughs at you.



Yes, actually. DC hit the nail on the head.
You presume I care what the world thinks.

I'm proud of having served in my country's military, and I'm proud that I live in the United States. Thanks for attempting to send jabs my way, but you're just another anonymous resident of another anonymous country whom I do not know and really don't care to know. You are just another speck on this planet who will die just like I will someday and I'll tell you for sure that at that point, I REALLY won't give a $hit what country I lived in, who didn't like me or how well ANY world leaders ran their country.

I'm along for the ride, I'm living life as I see fit, and everybody else can piss off.
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Jul 6, 2009, 01:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by harbinger75 View Post
You presume I care what the world thinks.

I'm proud of having served in my country's military, and I'm proud that I live in the United States. Thanks for attempting to send jabs my way, but you're just another anonymous resident of another anonymous country whom I do not know and really don't care to know. You are just another speck on this planet who will die just like I will someday and I'll tell you for sure that at that point, I REALLY won't give a $hit what country I lived in, who didn't like me or how well ANY world leaders ran their country.

I'm along for the ride, I'm living life as I see fit, and everybody else can piss off.
If anything, having served in the military should make you care about what other countries think of us. Wars are what happens when international relations and diplomacy break down. The lower the opinion of us that other countries have the more and more likely US soldiers are to die. I'm not saying we should never stick to our principles for fear of pissing other off, only that it does matter what our reputation is world wide.
     
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Jul 6, 2009, 02:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
If anything, having served in the military should make you care about what other countries think of us. Wars are what happens when international relations and diplomacy break down. The lower the opinion of us that other countries have the more and more likely US soldiers are to die. I'm not saying we should never stick to our principles for fear of pissing other off, only that it does matter what our reputation is world wide.
I've given up on that simply because I have absolutely NO control to change what other countries think of us here in the U.S. What other countries think of us and whether we're at war or not are two separate things. I DO care if our soldiers, Marines, sailors and airmen are fighting and dying, but let's just be realistic here, you and I have NO say whether our countries are at war or not.

So, I really don't care what other countries think of me as an American, whether they mock us, curse our existence or anything like that. Their opinions will not effect how I got about my daily routine, nor how I support my country.
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Jul 6, 2009, 02:16 PM
 
Shif and Doofy, as the saying goes... Get a room!

(or at least PM each other instead of filling this thread up with more of your love quarrels)
     
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Jul 6, 2009, 02:17 PM
 
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Jul 6, 2009, 02:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by harbinger75 View Post
I've given up on that simply because I have absolutely NO control to change what other countries think of us here in the U.S. What other countries think of us and whether we're at war or not are two separate things. I DO care if our soldiers, Marines, sailors and airmen are fighting and dying, but let's just be realistic here, you and I have NO say whether our countries are at war or not.

So, I really don't care what other countries think of me as an American, whether they mock us, curse our existence or anything like that. Their opinions will not effect how I got about my daily routine, nor how I support my country.
You do have control over that: you can vote for candidates whom you think will do a good job of representing the US both at home and abroad.
     
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Jul 6, 2009, 02:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
What freedom-infringing laws are those, Shif?
She's mentioned it at least two or three times so far. The freedom-infringing laws that "put Bud in your fridge."
     
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Jul 6, 2009, 03:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
She's mentioned it at least two or three times so far. The freedom-infringing laws that "put Bud in your fridge."
I want the law, not what she thinks is the law. I want her to go and find for me where it says that she can't copy (for personal use on a different machine/format) a CD that she owns.
At this point, someone might want to have the Admiral Ackbar graphic handy.
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Jul 6, 2009, 03:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
You do have control over that: you can vote for candidates whom you think will do a good job of representing the US both at home and abroad.
The only problem with that is that political transparency to ANY degree during a candidacy is nonexistent. I can't recall a candidate since the day I began voting who honestly and truthfully fulfilled their campaign promises and didn't waffle on their original platform.

There is absolutely no way to tell what a candidate will truly stand for nor how well they will represent us on the world stage when it comes time to cast our votes. Half-truths, subterfuge and sleight-of-hand are the orders of the day with any political figure nowadays. I just accept that as fact, and move on.

Generally, I'll vote for the guy who isn't AS full of $hit as the other guy.
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Jul 6, 2009, 03:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by harbinger75 View Post
I've given up on that simply because I have absolutely NO control to change what other countries think of us here in the U.S. What other countries think of us and whether we're at war or not are two separate things. I DO care if our soldiers, Marines, sailors and airmen are fighting and dying, but let's just be realistic here, you and I have NO say whether our countries are at war or not.

So, I really don't care what other countries think of me as an American, whether they mock us, curse our existence or anything like that. Their opinions will not effect how I got about my daily routine, nor how I support my country.
If you really want to take the stance of "I approve America's actions that alienate the world because I don't care what the world thinks," you can't also say "The reason I don't care what the world thinks is because I have no control over it." You have just as much control over America's actions.
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Jul 6, 2009, 03:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
I want the law, not what she thinks is the law. I want her to go and find for me where it says that she can't copy (for personal use on a different machine/format) a CD that she owns.
At this point, someone might want to have the Admiral Ackbar graphic handy.
Wasn't there a case not too long ago in which some guy got in trouble for playing the radio (excuse me, wireless) at work? Something about the possibility that someone without the appropriate license might hear the music?
     
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Jul 6, 2009, 03:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by harbinger75 View Post
The only problem with that is that political transparency to ANY degree during a candidacy is nonexistent. I can't recall a candidate since the day I began voting who honestly and truthfully fulfilled their campaign promises and didn't waffle on their original platform.

There is absolutely no way to tell what a candidate will truly stand for nor how well they will represent us on the world stage when it comes time to cast our votes. Half-truths, subterfuge and sleight-of-hand are the orders of the day with any political figure nowadays. I just accept that as fact, and move on.

Generally, I'll vote for the guy who isn't AS full of $hit as the other guy.
Unfortunately you're largely right about this. My approach to this issue is to pay more attention to local politics. It's much easier and more common to get good, honest people elected to local office. And once they've got some political experience there it's possible for them to move up to state politics, &c., &c.

The other option, of course, is to run yourself (something I've considered and am still considering for the future). Or try and find some other place where the situation is better and move there instead.
     
 
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