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2009059 · Aug 30, 2006, 11:43 AM

Hi,

I have a large invesment in G5 computers and I am wondering how long you guys think apple will support the PPC crowd and how leopard will run on G5 computers. Thanks.

Chuckit · Aug 30, 2006, 11:48 AM

A few years yet. They just discontinued the G5, and they usually support old configurations for about five years, it seems. And Leopard should be fine. No obvious reason it wouldn't be. Newer releases tend to run better than older releases — except for new eye candy, which depends on your video card.

OreoCookie · Aug 30, 2006, 12:55 PM

Long enough for your computer to be useful.

2009059 · Aug 30, 2006, 12:57 PM

I'm a bit worried that apple will do the same as it did with the classic to OS X switch (IIRC they only supported classic for a year).

Big Mac · Aug 30, 2006, 01:11 PM

Two different situations, 2009059. OS 9 had been officially declared "dead." Apple killed OS 9 off so that developers would migrate to OS X. OS X has much better support for multiple processor architectures than the classic Mac OS did, so there is little reason for Apple to do such a thing. Besides, Apple would alienate many important customers if it were to kill PPC support so quickly.

TETENAL · Aug 30, 2006, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by 2009059

I'm a bit worried that apple will do the same as it did with the classic to OS X switch (IIRC they only supported classic for a year).

Apple still supports Classic and it is 5 years since OS X was released.

OreoCookie · Aug 30, 2006, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by 2009059

I'm a bit worried that apple will do the same as it did with the classic to OS X switch (IIRC they only supported classic for a year).

That's incorrect, you can still run the Classic environment in Tiger, the latest version of OS X. As to whether Leopard will feature a Classic, nobody knows. So they supported Classic for at least five years (March 2001: OS X 10.0).

Apple also kept OS 9-capable computers in their line-up, even when the G5 was released in September 2003 (I remember that they still sold G4 towers specifically for that purpose).

Big Mac · Aug 30, 2006, 01:32 PM

I think he meant that once OS X came out, OS 9 was "killed" not that long thereafter. He isn't referring to the Classic environment.

Millennium · Aug 30, 2006, 01:47 PM

Apple will probably support PowerPC for the next 3-4 years. I expect third-party developers, however, to start dropping it a year from now.

icibaqu · Aug 30, 2006, 02:18 PM

i think that 3rd party developers will make things universal for at least a few years. Apple seems to have made that option easy through xcode (at least that's the impression i got in one of the last few keynotes).

as to ppc - leopard requires at least a G4 to run...so.

mitchell_pgh · Aug 30, 2006, 02:26 PM

The G5 will always be able to run Leopard.

I'm guessing PPC support will die around OS 10.8... which is probably 5+ years away. And even then... you will still be able to run an OS.

Chuckit · Aug 30, 2006, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

I think he meant that once OS X came out, OS 9 was "killed" not that long thereafter. He isn't referring to the Classic environment.

OS 9 isn't a hardware configuration, so I'm not sure what that has to do with the matter at hand.

Chuckit · Aug 30, 2006, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by icibaqu

as to ppc - leopard requires at least a G4 to run...so.

If we use that as a measure, we could expect PowerPC to be supported until 2013 (G3 is cut off 6 1/2 years after the Power Mac G4 is introduced, G5 will be cut off 6 1/2 years after the Mac Pro is introduced). We can hope for that.

dimmer · Aug 30, 2006, 02:39 PM

When Apple moved from OS 8.6 to OS 9 how many updates did OS 8.6 get? One I think, maybe even none. There was nothing "new" about the OS X move in that regard (other than of course it was a whole new OS). It was imperative for Apple to make clear to their developers that all of Apple's focus was on OS X: it wasn't another Copeland/Pink deal--and that they had to come along for the ride.

OS X, like NeXTstep, isn't tied to a particular CPU, so Apple has no need to drop G5 support in the OS until such time as the user base is so marginal it's not worth printing "G5" on the box (and I doubt that they'll ever make an OS that's G5 specific and not runnable on a G4 for anything other than marketing reasons).

Classic support has indeed been updated in each new release of OS X: the underlying OS that Classic runs has been stabilized at 9.2.2, but that's not an abandoning of the vclassic Mac OS in any way.

OreoCookie · Aug 30, 2006, 06:08 PM

Dimmer pretty much nails it.
Also, Apple kept on selling OS9-capable computers for quite some time, so they didn't abandon anything. Just in Apple's own interest, they will keep on making PowerPC software for as long a significant part of their user base runs PowerPC hardware.

Big Mac · Aug 30, 2006, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

OS 9 isn't a hardware configuration, so I'm not sure what that has to do with the matter at hand.

Right, I know that; that's why I said those were two different matters. I was trying to explain what the OP meant.

dimmer · Aug 30, 2006, 07:44 PM

In keeping with the trend, Apple does still offer new, not refurb Power Mac G5's for those who need them: you need to dig a little to find the link, but it's there. I'm guessing this will continue for a while until CS3 goes native.

Big Mac · Aug 30, 2006, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by dimmer

In keeping with the trend, Apple does still offer new, not refurb Power Mac G5's for those who need them: you need to dig a little to find the link, but it's there. I'm guessing this will continue for a while until CS3 goes native.

Point us in the general direction?

dimmer · Aug 30, 2006, 08:17 PM

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...&nclm=PowerMac

dimmer · Aug 30, 2006, 08:17 PM

It's on the sidebar, left hand, just before the refurb sections.

TETENAL · Aug 30, 2006, 08:18 PM

PeterS · Aug 31, 2006, 02:28 AM

[QUOTE=icibaqu
as to ppc - leopard requires at least a G4 to run...so.[/QUOTE]

Has this restriction been officially stated by Apple? Could you please provide a reference?

Chuckit · Aug 31, 2006, 02:29 AM

A reference…like the readme from Leopard?

moonmonkey · Aug 31, 2006, 05:59 AM

yes, please make a torrent.

icibaqu · Aug 31, 2006, 12:05 PM

i think it may have been on the leopard preview page. search around a rumor site, you'll find it. if they took it off someone probably got a screenshot.

besides, no laptop ever made it to G5, so not supporting G4 would be insanely dumb

Velocity211 · Aug 31, 2006, 12:53 PM

PeterS · Aug 31, 2006, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

A reference…like the readme from Leopard?

And this is accesible to ordinary (ie non-developers) users is it?

Patronising responses belittle you.

Chuckit · Aug 31, 2006, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by PeterS

And this is accesible to ordinary (ie non-developers) users is it?

Yes. As much as it is to most developers. It requires the use of a search engine and a Bittorrent client.

The readme itself was also posted just above yours.

voodoo · Sep 1, 2006, 12:06 AM

Wow... the G3 is not supported any more.. just.. wow...

V

- - e r i k - - · Sep 1, 2006, 01:30 AM

About time too

Chuckit · Sep 1, 2006, 02:13 AM

Yeah, G3 support was really starting to piss me off.

frdmfghtr · Sep 2, 2006, 12:22 AM

With the introduction of Universal Binaries, it doesn't seem to me that it would be that hard to support both the PPC and Intel processors for quite some time. Is there something about making a UB that I, as a non-programmer, am missing that makes compiling to UB not desirable?

Tuoder · Sep 2, 2006, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Yeah, G3 support was really starting to piss me off.

lol

Steve's Sanity · Sep 2, 2006, 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by frdmfghtr

With the introduction of Universal Binaries, it doesn't seem to me that it would be that hard to support both the PPC and Intel processors for quite some time. Is there something about making a UB that I, as a non-programmer, am missing that makes compiling to UB not desirable?

In theory you are correct, frdm. OS X and XCode's support for universal binaries should, theoretically, make universal binaries the popular choice for quite some time. On the other hand, the history of the 68k -> PPC transition paints a less optimistic picture of the future. During that transition we had "fat binaries," but quickly enough those disappaeared. Things should be different this time; I think they will be.

kick52 · 04:08 PM

you can get 4-5 copies of leopard on bittorent. why isnt apple sueing people? they did with tiger.

one copy of leopard is from demonoid.com. why isnt it shut down? they say what users upload isnt theirs responsibility, but the site was set up up on purpose for that thing, and people should stop them. i think the same for bittorrent.

Chuckit · Sep 2, 2006, 04:02 PM

Why do you think Apple should stop them? Is the existence of that torrent hurting you in some way?

Hi I'm Ben · Sep 2, 2006, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by kick52

you can get 4-5 copies of leopard on bittorent. why isnt apple sueing people? they did with tiger.

one copy of leopard is from demonoid.com. why isnt it shut down? they say what users upload isnt theirs responsibility, but the site was set up up on purpose for that thing, and people should stop them. i think the same for bittorrent.

I hope people are enjoying their incomplete beta OS.

mac128k-1984 · Sep 2, 2006, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Hi I'm Ben

I hope people are enjoying their incomplete beta OS.

I think they are

Millennium · Sep 2, 2006, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Why do you think Apple should stop them? Is the existence of that torrent hurting you in some way?

Indirectly, yes, because it hurts Apple.

Chuckit · Sep 2, 2006, 08:21 PM

I don't see how.

Big Mac · Sep 2, 2006, 09:57 PM

The only way it could harm Apple is if people critique its flaws publicly, thereby deterring others from upgrading when the final product comes out. Otherwise, I don't see how it's all that harmful.

kick52 · Sep 3, 2006, 02:00 AM

they stole their software, which apple payed a lot of money for, and made it free for everybody and anybody.

its not fair at the least, even if it is incomplete.

joecap · Sep 3, 2006, 02:06 AM

OS X is going passed .5 im going to go nuts. the last time 10.5 is the last OS X.

MBP 17" 2.16ghz
ipod 4GB wht
BT MMouse

- - e r i k - - · Sep 3, 2006, 02:07 AM

engrish.com

goMac · Sep 3, 2006, 02:12 AM

Originally Posted by 2009059

Hi,

I have a large invesment in G5 computers and I am wondering how long you guys think apple will support the PPC crowd and how leopard will run on G5 computers. Thanks.

Honestly? I have a feeling 32 bit will get the shaft before PPC. I mean, Apple does have a fair number of 32 bit Intels out there. But most of those are upgradable.

I think in a few years Apple will support 64 bit Intel and the G5, and then just 64 bit Intel.

That's my complete guess though.

I expect PowerPC games will stop sometime next year though.

goMac · Sep 3, 2006, 02:14 AM

Originally Posted by Hi I'm Ben

I hope people are enjoying their incomplete beta OS.

I've heard hints from sources before that Apple can track OS X betas.

In that case, why would they have to do anything? They can sit back, track people as need be, and then act if needed.

Again, I've never looked deeply to see if this is actually done. For all I know I could be completely wrong. But it would be interesting.

Chuckit · Sep 3, 2006, 02:52 AM

Originally Posted by kick52

they stole their software, which apple payed a lot of money for, and made it free for everybody and anybody.

And again, this is harmful…how?

OreoCookie · 03:23 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

Honestly? I have a feeling 32 bit will get the shaft before PPC. I mean, Apple does have a fair number of 32 bit Intels out there. But most of those are upgradable.

I think in a few years Apple will support 64 bit Intel and the G5, and then just 64 bit Intel.

That's my complete guess though.

I expect PowerPC games will stop sometime next year though.

Well, I don't think so. My ProBook is 32 bit and this would mean it wouldn't last as long as a three-year old G5 … which doesn't sound right. I'm sure plenty of early adopters would riot.

Also, there is basically no reason to abandon 32 bit, most of the code compiles either 32 or 64 bit.

kick52 · Sep 3, 2006, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

And again, this is harmful…how?

they got something for free, which cost apple money to make, and they shouldnt have it anyway.

TheSpaz · Sep 3, 2006, 08:58 AM

I would rather not run incomplete beta software on my computer for many reasons.

1. It is illegal if I didn't pay to become a developer.
2. It's probably very buggy
3. Most features probably don't work correctly yet or still under development
4. It's less of a surprise when the real thing comes out
5. Tiger is working okay right now
6. I don't like being sued.