[mattyb]

A serious problem. I've got a new desk. My iMac 20" doesn't fit into it - the desk has a rolling cover. The stand of the 20" is removable but takes warrenty voiding measures to remove it.

Even though I'm a simple user (surf, email, iPhoto, iTunes, watch films and TV shows, burn DVDs occasionally) I'm a big fan of Call of Duty games. CoD2 runs well on my iMac with its 256M graphics card. CoD4 is coming out this month for the Mac.

I don't really want an Apple laptop. For the specs (comparing to iMacs) its just too expensive, plus it would sit on my desk for 48 weeks of the year and not get moved. I'd need another keyboard anyway - can't stand not having a number pad.

So I'm thinking Mac Pro. I've got a 22" Acer screen that fits in the desk so I'd only have to get a keyboard. I've got a Razor mouse that works on the iMac so I presume that it'll work on the Mac Pro.

One of the questions that I have is just how 'upgradeable' is the Mac Pro? Can I slap in another graphics card for example? Does this have to be done by a recognized Apple reseller? Same for memory or storage. Before switching to Apple last year I had only ever built my own systems, so I'm not afraid of some light surgery, but I don't want to be voiding any warranty.

I've got space for the beast in a cupboard that is part of the desk. The space is meant for a tower PC so I presume the Mac Pro should be OK. It wouldn't be a tight fit, but I was wondering about heat. Do the Pros tend to get hot?

If I could get a second had one, that accepts the NVidia GeForce 8800 and the price was right I'd pay. Otherwise the spec that I was thinking of :

One 2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
2G RAM (I'd buy some more from Macway)
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT 512MB GDDR3
320G 7200rpm hard disk
One 16x SuperDrive
AirPort Extreme Card (Wi-Fi)

It would cost me 2200€ here in France, the same price as the 15" MacBook Pro with a 512M graphics card.

[naphtali]

You're getting a new Mac because your new desk doesn't fix the iMac?! Won't it be cheaper and more sensible to get a more suitable desk, especially if your current Mac meets all your needs comfortably?

You can upgrade the RAM and hard drive of all Macs, and as long as you don't break anything while doing so the warranty will not be void.

The Mac Pro is more upgradeable in the sense that you can
1) swap out the graphics card for a more advance one later (limited to Mac specific cards)
2) add more than one internal hard drive
3) add way more RAM

But I guess you really need to ask yourself if you can justify the cost when you don't need all that power

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by naphtali 

You're getting a new Mac because your new desk doesn't fix the iMac?! Won't it be cheaper and more sensible to get a more suitable desk, especially if your current Mac meets all your needs comfortably?

Yeah I know. The desk took me a couple of nights to build. If I got rid of it now it would be like ... defeat. Its the desk here.
The current iMac doesn't let the desk close. I have young kids and the desk MUST close. This counts out any sort of iMac purchase.
Plus I like my on-line gaming, which means I need some decent graphics. 512M please sir for the upcoming Call of Duty 4 for Mac. Only the Mac Pro and the high-spec Mac Book Pros have a 512M graphics card. The specs in my original post give me a Mac Pro for the same price as a MacBook Pro.

Originally Posted by naphtali 

You can upgrade the RAM and hard drive of all Macs, and as long as you don't break anything while doing so the warranty will not be void.

The Mac Pro is more upgradeable in the sense that you can
1) swap out the graphics card for a more advance one later (limited to Mac specific cards)
2) add more than one internal hard drive
3) add way more RAM

OK good, as long as I could do it myself.

Originally Posted by naphtali 

But I guess you really need to ask yourself if you can justify the cost when you don't need all that power

I don't NEED all that power. But I want it, I have the money for it - and by jove I shall have it !!!!!

[naphtali]

Looks like an iMac right in the picture! Perhaps that's the 17" model. Forgot for a while that Apple made any iMacs smaller than 20"

I suppose you've made up your mind about the MacPro. It's really powerful, so as long as you can afford it you'll definitely be happy with it.

They are pretty big, so you might want to check out the dimensions of the MacPro and see where you can put it and still have space to sit. Looks like it might be tight under the desk.

Just curious - why is it such a necessity for the desk to be closed when there are kids? The iMacs are meant for schools and all that.

[mattyb]

Thats why I bought the thing !!! After seeing an iMac I was sold. But yeah it must be the 17" because my 20" does not go in - even when angling the screen.

The Pro should fit into the cupboard on the right. I've got the Pro dimensions and the cupboard is much larger. I did wonder about heat dissipation though. I might have to drill a few holes in the back of the cupboard if I find that the Pro runs hot.

The daughter is 4 years old, and my 11 month old son is just starting to walk. I only want them to access the computer area when seated on my lap. Plus the desk is in our lounge, and when people are over, I'd like to hide all the wires and junk that I have on the desk.

[ninahagen]

I agree about a new desk...

The new imacs are blazing fast, far more than a casual user could ever take advantage of. Getting a mac pro in this situation would be like buying a Ferrari to go to the corner market because, well, you can.

If you can't wrap your mind around a new desk, you might consider a new loaded mac mini. Still plenty fast, plus cheap and compact.

[Leonard]

Originally Posted by ninahagen 

I agree about a new desk...

The new imacs are blazing fast, far more than a casual user could ever take advantage of. Getting a mac pro in this situation would be like buying a Ferrari to go to the corner market because, well, you can.

If you can't wrap your mind around a new desk, you might consider a new loaded mac mini. Still plenty fast, plus cheap and compact.

A Mac Mini is not for games. He's better with a Mac Pro than a Mac Mini. I agree it's a bit more power than he needs (an iMac does fit him), but it'll last him awhile.

He also mentions watching TV and burning DVDs,... if he starts getting a digital collection of video, his Mac Pro may come in handy for video ripping/conversion.

[ninahagen]

Originally Posted by Leonard 

A Mac Mini is not for games. He's better with a Mac Pro than a Mac Mini. I agree it's a bit more power than he needs (an iMac does fit him), but it'll last him awhile.

He also mentions watching TV and burning DVDs,... if he starts getting a digital collection of video, his Mac Pro may come in handy for video ripping/conversion.

Yeah, those are both good points. If he goes with the basic Mac Pro with the 8800 vid card, it won't be crazily expensive and will play his games nicely. It is still overkill though, and it won't solve his wish for the gear to be out of sight. The new desk sounds like the best option.

[Luca Rescigno]

Buying a Mac just to play games is really just a huge waste of money. Instead of spending $2000+ on one, why not get an HDTV and a game console? Or even build a PC solely for gaming, and use your Mac for everything else! Either way, you'll spend a LOT less money and you'll get much better game performance and selection. With all the money you save you can get a whole bunch more games!

Seriously, Macs are good for a lot of things, but gaming is not one of them. If you're a casual user who uses a Mac for everyday tasks and occasionally plays a game or two, that's fine. But if you are going to be doing any degree of serious gaming, or if you're buying more Mac than you need for the sole purpose of gaming, you're wasting your money. Gaming on the Mac is worse in every way:

1. Performance is worse since games must be ported.
2. Hardware upgrades are expensive or impossible, so you can't play new games as they come out for more than a year or two after you get the computer.
3. Game selection is abysmal.
4. What games do get released often come out months or even years after the original version came out, and cost full price upon release, long after the Windows version has dropped into the bargain bin.
5. Mac versions often lack some of the features of the Windows versions. Sometimes this even means that PC-Mac multiplayer is not possible (may no longer be the case; I think this had to do with the processor differences).

If the thought of using a Windows computer sickens you, just get an Xbox 360 or PS3 and you won't have to use Windows. Hell, for the money you're willing to lay down for a mediocre-at-best gaming Mac, you could get both, with extra controllers and accessories, and plenty of games for each, and still have enough left over for a 32" LCD HDTV!

The Mac Pro is an excellent computer. It is a fine workstation. It is not a gaming machine at all. It can play games, but Apple doesn't have any gaming computers.

[mattyb]

Thanks for taking the time to write your reply Luca. I do realise that its alot of money, my wife is also making sure that I know this as well.

The console route is out. The TV is the wife's domain, the computer is mine. I can't play first-person-shooters on a console controller anyway.

The easy option would be to build a really good gaming PC. I've done it before and I could make a really sh*t hot machine for the money. But I don't want to have Windows. I've had enough of it. I want the ease of use of OS X, the good hardware and the security. I've spent too many weekends and nights fiddling about to get the damn Windows PCs to work. Be it virus probs, weird hardware, my very basic Canon camera, music etc. At work I do basic SQL Server DBA tasks. I do Oracle on Windows DBA tasks. I hate it. I hate Windows with a passion. As for Linux - great OS : for servers. I love administering the Oracle instances that we have on Linux - its easy, its understandable. I've used Linux as a desktop since 1999 - I've had enough of the tinkering to get it to work how I want it as well. As for games on Linux - nuf said. I only changed last year to a Mac but I've 'seen the light' as it were.

So far in my short Apple experience I've come up against one major problem - my damn machine doesn't fit in my nice desk. Yeah I could send the desk back. It would cost me nearly 100€ and I wouldn't have a desk. I suppose that I could build my own but my time is worth more than that (to me anyways).

The iMac was supposed to last for up to three years. Its done 17 months. I figure that the Pro will be a lot more long lived because of its 'upgradability'. It meets another goal of mine - the one computer to rule them all type test. I can have Windows on it if I need to. With enough RAM I could run some virtual machines (on the iMac I have Parallels with CentOS and Oracle 10g installed) with several operating systems. I can add more disks and use it as a server. I have the potential to do more than just the simple tasks that I listed before.

The goal isn't really just to have a high spec machine that runs OS X AND can play games, the goal is to get a machine running OS X where the limits are far beyond what I envisage now.

[hokie17]

From what I understand, you can put any video card you want in one of the PCI Express slots and use it in Boot Camp, while using the card that comes with the Mac Pro in OS X. But if you get the 8800 I'd think you'd be ok using that in Boot Camp. But you still have the ability to upgrade later if needed. You'd need a monitor with multiple DVI inputs or a DVI-KVM switch to avoid swapping cables though.

I used to be pretty big into PC gaming but only play a few older games anymore (TIE Fighter and Republic Commando), so my MBP fits the bill.

[Luca Rescigno]

Originally Posted by hokie17 

From what I understand, you can put any video card you want in one of the PCI Express slots and use it in Boot Camp, while using the card that comes with the Mac Pro in OS X. But if you get the 8800 I'd think you'd be ok using that in Boot Camp. But you still have the ability to upgrade later if needed. You'd need a monitor with multiple DVI inputs or a DVI-KVM switch to avoid swapping cables though.

I used to be pretty big into PC gaming but only play a few older games anymore (TIE Fighter and Republic Commando), so my MBP fits the bill.

That's a valid point, but the problem with buying a Mac Pro as a gaming machine isn't that the video card is inadequate, it's that you're paying for, at minimum, a quad-core Xeon processor. The 8800GT is a fine card and is probably worth the $150 for the BTO option, but games don't need a quad Xeon for good performance. All you really need is a middle-of-the-road dual core CPU (like what comes with the iMac) and you're set for a long time. The graphics card is by far the most important component of a gaming system. That Xeon is just overkill and it costs hundreds of dollars more than processors that are still perfectly suited to gaming.

Unfortunately, if you want a Mac with a really good graphics card, you're pretty much stuck with the Mac Pro, or the 24" iMac (whose non-upgradable 8800GS is really just midrange, and that's being generous). The MacBook Pro's GPU isn't high end either, but it's still good, and it's quite nice among laptop graphics.

Like I said, there's no Mac that's well suited to gamers. Some can play games, but it's a giant waste of money to buy a Mac specifically for games.

EDIT: Oh, and I loved X-Wing and TIE Fighter. I played them so much back in the day. Too bad there aren't any modern incarnations... they'd sell tons of them!

[hokie17]

I'm kinda split on TIE Fighter. Sometimes I'll run it in Boot Camp, other times in Fusion or Parallels. Neither VM supports the 3d graphics though, so you have to run in software mode.

I agree about the overkill, but the only way to come close to future proofing himself and sticking to Macs only is to get a Mac Pro. I sometimes game on the Wii and 360 as well, but not much.

[SierraDragon]

IMO a 2006 MP would be best value.Very strong box and 8800GT graphics cards are available.

-Allen Wicks

[Leonard]

Originally Posted by hokie17 

I used to be pretty big into PC gaming but only play a few older games anymore (TIE Fighter and Republic Commando), so my MBP fits the bill.

I used to be pretty big into Mac gaming, but I'm starting to wonder if my Mac Pro will be my last gaming Mac. I recently bought an Xbox 360 and have found a whole new world of gaming, but I'm still hooked on UT2004 on my Mac and wouldn't mind finding time to play Command and Conquer: Generals a bit more on the Mac.

Of course I use my Mac Pro for more than just gaming...

[hokie17]

I'm split right now between Republic Commando (XP), NFS Most Wanted (360), and Super Mario Galaxy (Wii). I have the Xbox version of Republic Commando but I prefer keyboard and mouse to a gamepad for a shooter any day.

I use a Nostromo SpeedPad N52 and a Bluetooth Logitech MX1000 (which works with Steermouse in OS X).

[imitchellg5]

Republic Commando is an awesome game. I'd forgotten that they had made it for PC.

To the OP, it seems like you want to keep your Mac for a long time. I think then that the expandability of a Mac Pro would be great for you. One of my good friends buys the top of the line Mac and then keeps it for 4 or 5 years so that even when he gets a new one, the old Mac can still hold up to the daily grind without issue. Right now he's using a 2.0 GHz Dual G5 with 4 GB of RAM quite smoothly and he plans to get a Mac Pro this fall.

[mattyb]

hokie17 : I've got a N52 as well, and a Razor Copperhead. Great piece of kit the N52. Doesn't make me any better, but it beats using a keyboard any day.

imitchellg5 : that's really the reason that I haven't spent more time looking at the MacBook Pros - more limits on upgradability. Plus the spec I want comes in at the same price as a MBPro with 512M graphics card.

Besides RAM, Hard drives and Graphics cards is the rest of the Mac Pro as upgradable? Can you change CPUs for example? Motherboard?

[naphtali]

Some review sites like anandtech have successfully upgraded the CPU. There shouldn't be any problem, as long as the CPU is socket compatible

You might find this article interesting
Macworld | The new rules for buying a Mac

[mattyb]

Cheers for this link naphtali, interesting reading.

I'm pretty sure that I'm going to splash the cash for a Mac Pro. I've got the space, I've got the go ahead from the accountant (wife), now I just need to get a good price for my iMac.

[misterdna]

The only sad thing is, as long as you stick to this desk, you'll be limited as to the size of the monitor (and I bet you'd really enjoy a 30" monitor!). Are you sure you want to tailor your computer to this desk? Admit defeat, get a new desk, a Mac Pro and a really big Apple monitor (or two)!

Note that the author of this message owns long positions in Apple Inc.

[mattyb]

DEFEAT AGAINST A WOODEN OBJECT ??? NEVER !!

I've got a 22 inch screen that fits, don't try and get me into any more arguments with the misses about needing a larger screen.

[imitchellg5]

Ha ha. A 22" screen is better than the 17" iMac that will fit in there I guess. Let us know how you like the Mac Pro!

[ninahagen]

Yet, you have been defeated by a wooden object.

The desk is neither so stylish nor grand nor expensive that replacing it would be a huge burden, particularly when your iMac meets or exceeds your computing needs.

I am in the art business, and this whole proposition reminds me of a species of art buyer that gets maximum derision from pros: the suburban couple that buys expensive art because it matches the couch.

There are quite a number of people on this and other mac boards who are working mathematicians, physicists, 3-D renderers, graphic designers, software designers and recording engineers. Many cannot afford a loaded Mac Pro at home even though they could take great advantage of its capabilities.

In your context, otherwise legitimate questions such as changing the motherboard, become a bit comical. Your main reasons for buying this thoroughbred seem to be that 1. you want to play games 2. you have money to burn, and 3. it would fit your desk. It's laughable.

dilettante |ˌdiliˈtänt|
noun ( pl. -tanti |-ˈtäntē|or -tantes )
a person who cultivates an area of interest, such as the arts <or technology>, without real commitment or knowledge.

[mattyb]

While its tempting to get into an argument with you ninahagen, I won't.

Cheers for all the responses.

[bballe336]

Originally Posted by ninahagen 

Yet, you have been defeated by a wooden object.

The desk is neither so stylish nor grand nor expensive that replacing it would be a huge burden, particularly when your iMac meets or exceeds your computing needs.

I am in the art business, and this whole proposition reminds me of a species of art buyer that gets maximum derision from pros: the suburban couple that buys expensive art because it matches the couch.

There are quite a number of people on this and other mac boards who are working mathematicians, physicists, 3-D renderers, graphic designers, software designers and recording engineers. Many cannot afford a loaded Mac Pro at home even though they could take great advantage of its capabilities.

In your context, otherwise legitimate questions such as changing the motherboard, become a bit comical. Your main reasons for buying this thoroughbred seem to be that 1. you want to play games 2. you have money to burn, and 3. it would fit your desk. It's laughable.

dilettante |ˌdiliˈtänt|
noun ( pl. -tanti |-ˈtäntē|or -tantes )
a person who cultivates an area of interest, such as the arts <or technology>, without real commitment or knowledge.

Is it necessary to condescend him for no real reason? He can afford the machine, and it'll probably last him a long time since his computing needs aren't that demanding. Its not like there is some exclusivity in owning a mac pro.

[ninahagen]

Originally Posted by bballe336 

Is it necessary to condescend... ?

Condescension is the odious presumption that one person is intrinsically better than the other. There is no such assumption operating here.

Assuming the OP came to the board looking for honest advice, the best thing to do is give it to him. He will make the best decision with as many perspectives as possible, including the specter of himself as a soccer mom picking up groceries in a Hummer, or a middle aged exec in a leather jacket driving to happy hour in an F-1 car. He can make a decision for total excess if he wants to, but since he asked, he should get honest answers.

Originally Posted by bballe336 

He can afford the machine, and it'll probably last him a long time since his computing needs aren't that demanding.

An iMac exceeds his needs at the moment, and would for several years to come. If in two years he finds himself in need of more, would be an easy matter to trade up.

[misterdna]

But I think it's like trying to talk someone into a less extravagant car, house, or meal. If someone wants it and can afford it, they are going to buy it. If someone really wants and can easily afford a Mercedes (which will fit perfectly in their garage), they aren't going to buy a Honda Civic no matter how much informed car enthusiasts advise that the Civic will go faster than they'll ever need to drive.

I think it's hard to shift from the mindset of trying to advise the most wise and economical computer purchase for different user's needs, to the mindset of telling someone to buy the most expensive computer simply because it fits a cheap desk better...

I still say it's the damn desk's fault! Burn the desk and all discord on this thread will be gone. The desk is evil! Matty, you must destroy the desk before it destroys us all!

In all seriousness, I do wonder about it overheating in that enclosed area, even with a few holes drilled in the back. Maybe a fire hazard?

[ninahagen]

Originally Posted by misterdna 

But I think it's like trying to talk someone into a less extravagant car, house, or meal. If someone wants it and can afford it, they are going to buy it. If someone really wants and can easily afford a Mercedes (which will fit perfectly in their garage), they aren't going to buy a Honda Civic no matter how much informed car enthusiasts advise that the Civic will go faster than they'll ever need to drive.

I agree with you, with a difference about degree. The Civic to Benz upgrade works, since there are demonstrable benefits... better seats, safer in a crash, maybe prettier. But the iMac is high grade like a Benz already, and in this case the Pro is an F-1 car. Would you advise you advise a beginning driver to get an F-1 car? Even with the money available, it's a quantum leap beyond what he needs. A friend of mine works at a particle accelerator. He has a mac pro, and only rarely taxes it doing all night-number crunching. If the OP ever does need more, he can get it easily, and in two years he'll get way more performance for the same money.

Originally Posted by misterdna 

I think it's hard to shift from the mindset of trying to advise the most wise and economical computer purchase for different user's needs, to the mindset of telling someone to buy the most expensive computer simply because it fits a cheap desk better...

It is easy to make the shift, but why would one ever want to embrace such an absurd paradigm?

Originally Posted by misterdna 

I still say it's the damn desk's fault! Burn the desk and all discord on this thread will be gone. The desk is evil! Matty, you must destroy the desk before it destroys us all!

Yeah really, it is a hideous thing. I can't believe someone would make a computer decision involving thousands of dollars to preserve such an eyesore. Death to the desk! Good sense and receptivity to our friend mattyb!

[mattyb]

First I'm a dilettante, now I have bad taste when choosing desks.

Thankyou for your postings ninahagen.

[mac redneck]

mattyb,
Will your imac fit in the compartment where you intend to put the mac pro? If so you could just mirror the display to the 22" flat panel from the imac's mini dvi out. You may need a usb extension cable for your keyboard, but that's a lot cheaper than a mac pro. Just a thought....

[IceEnclosure]

Originally Posted by ninahagen 

But the iMac is high grade like a Benz already, and in this case the Pro is an F-1 car. Would you advise you advise a beginning driver to get an F-1 car?

A beginning driver shouldn't get an F-1 car for 100 reasons.
Some of those being:

How do you start it?
What does all this crap on the steering wheel mean?!
OMG I might die because it's so fast (this won't happen on a Mac of any sort, the death thing)
The brakes aren't working!!
I'm feeling quite uncomfortable and I think I have to pee.. can I get out?

And, besides, who is the beginning driver in all this? mattyb? He's owned and built numerous PC systems and owns a Mac currently. I'd say this is more the case of someone who is taking their Nissan 350z to a track day and realizing he'd rather be doing it in a Nissan GTR(and somehow the GTR fits in the garage, while the Z doesn't). Oh and he can afford the GTR too.

A Mac Pro is just like having an iMac. Press the power button. Yay, it's on! Power of a Formula 1 car(?) with the simplicity of Macintosh®. Power up your favorite game powered by the graphics card you DESIRE or NEED that will play the game at it's best.

My advice is to get a Pro, try finding a deal on a recent machine with the card you want, or plunk it down for the newest model. You'll be satisfied, and that's what matters.


about the desk:

Yeah really, it is a hideous thing.

..to our friend mattyb!

friend?

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by mac redneck 

mattyb,
Will your imac fit in the compartment where you intend to put the mac pro? If so you could just mirror the display to the 22" flat panel from the imac's mini dvi out. You may need a usb extension cable for your keyboard, but that's a lot cheaper than a mac pro. Just a thought....

Yeah the iMac fits below where the mac pro will live. Gets hot there though, even with the back of the desk cupboard taken off.

Its not JUST the fact that the iMac doesn't fit into my desk that is prompting a Mac Pro purchase, although anyone reading this thread might get that idea.

[thibaulthalpern]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

The goal isn't really just to have a high spec machine that runs OS X AND can play games, the goal is to get a machine running OS X where the limits are far beyond what I envisage now.

If I may erm, "correct" you: your goal is not actually that. Your goal is to get a Mac that:
1. fits into your desk (I believe this particular kind of desk with a rolling cover is a secretary)
2. not a Mac Mini because it needs to be expandable.

I keep chuckling about #1. So funny. :-) Anyhow, Seems like you should just get the MacPro; end of story. With a MacPro, you can still run Windows on it and play games due to BootCamp.

[Leonard]

Originally Posted by ninahagen 

There are quite a number of people on this and other mac boards who are working mathematicians, physicists, 3-D renderers, graphic designers, software designers and recording engineers. Many cannot afford a loaded Mac Pro at home even though they could take great advantage of its capabilities.

So. This has nothing to do with him. What does he care about this. What do I care about this. If they can't afford one, then they're out of luck. Get a better job.

Originally Posted by ninahagen 

In your context, otherwise legitimate questions such as changing the motherboard, become a bit comical. Your main reasons for buying this thoroughbred seem to be that 1. you want to play games 2. you have money to burn, and 3. it would fit your desk. It's laughable.

What does it matter that he has a bit of money to burn. This is called consumerism. You have money to burn, you buy something. If he's happy with it, good. I'd rather buy something than regret not buying it. There are quite a few on this board, who are as you described, I'm sure.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by thibaulthalpern 

If I may erm, "correct" you: your goal is not actually that. Your goal is to get a Mac that:
1. fits into your desk (I believe this particular kind of desk with a rolling cover is a secretary)
2. not a Mac Mini because it needs to be expandable.

MY desk is classed as a MINISTER if you please !!! Yeah normally I think that they're called secretaries. Mine is labeled as "Full Multimedia Minister's Desk".

I have decided to buy a Mac Pro but just to clarify ALL the reasons are here.

20 and 24 inch iMacs won't fit in desk.
Father in law is going to have the 20 inch iMac that I have.
I have two kids so I must have a desk that closes to avoid the repetition of a disaster that took place a few months ago. Luckily it involved a previous employer's hardware and was insured. Well luckily for me anyway.
I want to keep the next purchase for a while and be able to add to it/upgrade it.
A 15 inch MacBook Pro with a 512M graphics card costs the same as the Mac Pro with one CPU, a 512M graphics card and Wifi + Bluetoth.
The VMs running under Parallels on the iMac now could be given a bit more oomph with a couple more Gigs of RAM.
I could play the latest Windows games

[ninahagen]

Well, it seems like you have decided, so I thought I would pass this on: the sweet spot in the pro range is the 2.8 Ghz 8-core. Most performance for cost. Who knows, maybe you'll produce the next great Mac-made feature film on this (if so let us know). Would you post a pic after you get it all set up?

[Ted L. Nancy]

Originally Posted by ninahagen 

the sweet spot in the pro range is the 2.8 Ghz 8-core

Agreed. Apple cert, refurb is the way to go on that IMO.

[mattyb]

I'm waiting for a refurb to come up that interests me. The last Mac Pro that was on offer in France had a 4000€ price tag

Cheers for the advice.