[gyneric]

I'm making this post is case anyone has had an experience similar to mine, and maybe they'll know what to do. So bear with me...

I purchased a g4 15" powerbook in September of 05 (my first mac) and everything worked great. That is until my friend, also a powerbook user, noticed one week later that the hinge was a little loose. I thought it was supposed to flex a little bit and he argues that his is very stable. He even showed me how the left side of the hinge was slightly misaligned and how it shifted very slightly when the lid is closed, while the right side is fixed. So I call apple, because I bought the apple care and they'll take care of it, right?

I spent about an hour on the phone and explained everything, and from what I could understand (the guy spoke broken, shattered, and smashed english), apple was going to fix it. We never got to the part where I send it in because I was running short on time and couldn't understand the guy anyway. I figured I would take it back to the apple store later.

Some weeks go by and the while the hinge didn't present any noticable problems, the lid would sometimes pop back up while the laptop was in sleep. I assume this is because the left side of the hinge is putting stress on the lid when closed. It wasn't too much of a problem, because the notebook mostly sat unused in my bag. Then one day, a friend of mine trips over an ethernet cord and pulls it out of the powerbook. The locking mechanism on the RJ-45 jack is now screwed. "take it back to the apple store," my friends tell me, "because they're cool and they'll fix it."

I finally make it to the apple store and I explained how the hinge was "broken" from the day I bought it, and that it took another powerbook user to notice the flaw. The genius told me they will fix everything in the store (I didn't want to send it out) once they order the parts. The genius advised me to come back after the holidays to get the part order out, and they'll call me when the parts come in.

About two weeks later, my powerbook suffers a small dent, after my laptop bag slid behind a seat in a lecture hall at my university (stadium kind of seats). What I mean to say, is that the my bag did not even free fall, it slid about 9 inches and got a dent through a layer of thick leather and neoprene (the laptop case itself). I just sort of shrugged it off, I had heard the aluminum powerbooks dent very easily.

So the other day, I noticed my backlit keyboard was all screwy. The letters R,T,G,H,N,&M were very bright, while every other key were rather dim. So I figure its finally time to take it back in.

On Jan 28th, the genius at the apple store wouldnt even go near my powerbook once he saw the dent on the front left corner. Him and his other genius sidekick decreed that I have to spend $755 for repairs before apple care would fix anything again. So even though they have on record that they sold me a powerbook with a broken hinge, they won't touch it because of their little loophole - applecare wont cover accidential damage. (even when the accidential damage occurs in their factory!) And how could my backlit keyboard go dim from a dent - one month earlier?

I brielfy conseidered taking them to small claims court, but I don't know where I would find the time for that. Is this how apple treats all of their customers? Or am I just very unlucky?

[new newton]

You're an idiot. You abused the notebook, failed to take the opportunities you had to fix it, blame others for problems of your own making, and can't figure out where a post belongs on a forum.

[gyneric]

newton... you didn't read. Apple sold me a notebook with a broken hinge. (although I did post this in the wrong category - can someone move it?)

[harrisjamieh]

Newtom, how bout you piss off. Thats the thing I hate sometimes bout this forum, you get twats like you who are a serious waste of space. This guy has asked for some help, and your post was most unappropriate, and very pointless.

gyneric, welcome to the 'NN. whilst i dont have Applecare, I have heard about the whole issue with PB denting and applecare. If they have it on file that you came in and told them about the hinge before the holidays, and they wont repair it, then escalate up the company and talk to someone more important than a stuck up genius.

[new newton]

And you had ample opportunity to have it fixed. You blew it, and now you're whining about it.

Man up and take better care of your stuff.

[Maflynn]

I'm not going to be as harsh as new_newton, but here's my take on this and I think I'll work backwards since that makes the most sense to me.

Applecare covers defects related to the manufactoring of the computer, so if the lcd or hinge fails applecare will cover it after the 1 year warranty. What it doesn't cover is wear and tear or abuse/neglect . Your accident was due to neglect on your part and it suffered visable damage because of that. Its understandable to expect apple not to eat the cost of repairing a dented powerbook - sounds reasonable, yes.

Now they have in the past not fixed other issues that may have fallen under the warrenty but yet be possibly related to the fall/drop of the PB, including internal parts and external parts, i.e., hinges.

Perhaps this will be an important lesson in that you shouldn't delay and put off repairing the computer. I had an issue with my computer and the genius tried to convince me to wait until after the holidays also. I would not have it. Its defective and I want it repaired, I didn't care about th delay. Come to find out the 6 week turnaround time he used to scare me was bogus and I had my PB back in under 2 weeks.

Bottom line is don't blame applecare for your own neglect and procrastination. You yourself have stated that you failed to get it fixed because you couldn't understand the guy on the phone (hint call back and ask for someone else). You then waited weeks before going to the apple store. You wait until after the holidays and then you drop it. If it were me, I'd have apple on the line the moment I noticed the hinge issue and I would have gotten it fixed ASAP.


Finally look where your posting. This is the powermac forum not the powerbook forum.

Mike

[harrisjamieh]

Newton, He said it was a freeking accident.. Yes he's whining about it, and rightly so. The apple guy said come back after the holidays, which he did. SOME people lead very busy lives, and often live a fair way from an apple store, which many people dont have time to travel to. You would be just as pissed off if you were in a situation where the guy said 'sure, we'll fix it, jus come back after the holiday', and you did and they said no we wont fix it coz of that teeny dent right there...

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by harrisjamieh

where the guy said 'sure, we'll fix it, jus come back after the holiday', and you did and they said no we wont fix it coz of that teeny dent right there...

As I posted I wouldn't do that. The Genius is there to repar and facilitate repairs. Its his job and why should he not do his job until after the holidays. We all lead busy lives yet should apple pay for the repair of his accident?

[Blubby]

Originally Posted by harrisjamieh

Newton, He said it was a freeking accident.. Yes he's whining about it, and rightly so. The apple guy said come back after the holidays, which he did. SOME people lead very busy lives, and often live a fair way from an apple store, which many people dont have time to travel to. You would be just as pissed off if you were in a situation where the guy said 'sure, we'll fix it, jus come back after the holiday', and you did and they said no we wont fix it coz of that teeny dent right there...

Just kl it alrite, Newton has a point. This iz the 2nd post ive seen you hav a moan.

[gyneric]

Thanks to all of the users who have been understanding.

I dont think I made it very clear; I am away at college and I can't just drive to an apple store. Has anyone in these forums ever attended a serious engineering university? I'm an undergrad engineering student with a research position and a part time job. Just like many of you, I am very busy and have very little free time.

[ibook_steve]

Originally Posted by gyneric

Thanks to all of the users who have been understanding.

I dont think I made it very clear; I am away at college and I can't just drive to an apple store. Has anyone in these forums ever attended a serious engineering university? I'm an undergrad engineering student with a research position and a part time job. Just like many of you, I am very busy and have very little free time.

Did you buy the computer through your school? Typically you can manage repairs through them if you did. But yes, the dent is a deal breaker.

Steve

[new newton]

There's a reason why most PB repairs are handled via mail-in. Takes about a week. Things aren't any faster at an Apple Store.

At any rate, your dropping the PB and denting it (along with the ethernet cable accident) is an intervening cause of damage. You've made it impossible for Apple to determine what may have been caused by your acts or its manufacture. When you procrastinate about warranty issues, you get burned.

Like I said, learn from it and learn to take care of your stuff.

[PeterKG]

Originally Posted by gyneric

Thanks to all of the users who have been understanding.

I dont think I made it very clear; I am away at college and I can't just drive to an apple store. Has anyone in these forums ever attended a serious engineering university? I'm an undergrad engineering student with a research position and a part time job. Just like many of you, I am very busy and have very little free time.

Hi gyneric,

People are being really harsh here as usual. A lot of the so called "Genuis" bar people haven't a clue. Call Apple again, and explain the hinge and keyboard issues. They will give you a case number, and send you a shipping box. Send it in to be repaired, and you will not need to deal with the retail store idiots. Remember that now the Apple stores are really iPod stores, and the staff they have hired reflect that new reality, that it's iPods and accessories that take priority over expensive overpriced, underpowered, computers.

[SLB]

I find it a little ridiculous to assume that a dent caused any certain problem. They should have to prove to you that the dent caused the problem before they summarily dismiss your paid warranty. Is this Apple's policy? I find it hard to believe they could defend such a position in court.

[ICD2k3]

here's what you should do:

Call apple explain the situation again and if they give you the same response... bitch... ask to speak to their supervisor and keep going on and on about how you'll never buy another apple product and how you're going to tell all of your friends. Since you have applecare you're definately in the right.

[hmp]

Does this mean that the presence of a dent voids any possible repairs through Applecare? I have a small hardly noticeable dent that was the result of some keys dropping on my notebook from a couple of feet above. Does that mean I can't get my creaky hinge fixed?

If so, AppleCare isn't worth the extra $$.

Has anyone else had experience with repairs being denied due to a dent on their powerbook?

[John123]

It's common practice -- not just Apple, but many manufacturers. They jump up and down in the warranty terms about what is and is not covered for a reason. It's not an "excuse" of theirs -- if they didn't hold a hard line on this, every Tom, Dick, and Harry that screwed up his laptop with damage would attempt to get some parts of it paid for under warranty.

Look, at the end of the day, I'm sorry for your problematic hinge, but let me recommend something to you: go to one of the many third-party repair facilities and get your hinge fixed at a discount. And while you're at it, get quotes on the damage that you did cause.

Many people have been unsympathetic to you, and some have been a little unduly harsh...but you can't reasonably expect a company like Apple to believe that one problem on a poorly-cared for laptop is their fault as opposed to yours. If you can get the appropriate documentation of when you brought it in the first time, who you spoke wiht, etc., you might have a shot at 1-800-SOS-APPL, but you really don't have too much of a leg to stand on here.

Sorry.

[ICD2k3]

"but you can't reasonably expect a company like Apple to believe that one problem on a poorly-cared for laptop is their fault as opposed to yours. If you can get the appropriate documentation of when you brought it in the first time, who you spoke wiht, etc., you might have a shot at 1-800-SOS-APPL, but you really don't have too much of a leg to stand on here."


the hinge IS apple's fault... he dented his powerbook after the hinge problem.

[ICD2k3]

by the way...

a friend of mine's powerbook hard drive died within the first 6mo... she sent it into apple for repair under applecare, but it was taking forever. When her dad called and bitched at them about schoolwork she needed the computer for they ended up sending her a brand new powerbook... so complaining is worth a shot

[dissapointed]

Originally Posted by gyneric

I'm making this post is case anyone has had an experience similar to mine, and maybe they'll know what to do. So bear with me...

About two weeks later, my powerbook suffers a small dent, after my laptop bag slid behind a seat in a lecture hall at my university (stadium kind of seats). What I mean to say, is that the my bag did not even free fall, it slid about 9 inches and got a dent through a layer of thick leather and neoprene (the laptop case itself). I just sort of shrugged it off, I had heard the aluminum powerbooks dent very easily.

On Jan 28th, the genius at the apple store wouldnt even go near my powerbook once he saw the dent on the front left corner. Him and his other genius sidekick decreed that I have to spend $755 for repairs before apple care would fix anything again. So even though they have on record that they sold me a powerbook with a broken hinge, they won't touch it because of their little loophole - applecare wont cover accidential damage. (even when the accidential damage occurs in their factory!) And how could my backlit keyboard go dim from a dent - one month earlier?

I brielfy conseidered taking them to small claims court, but I don't know where I would find the time for that. Is this how apple treats all of their customers? Or am I just very unlucky?

Very unlucky? Dude, a computer is a high tech, complex piece of electronic equipment. If you drop it, or it slides off a seat, stuff breaks. What would you take them to small claims court for exactly? Not fixing your hinge?

"Accidental damage" is not a loophole, it's a perfectly reasonable contract condition for a piece of electronics which you agreed to when you paid for the computer. The hinge has nothing to do with accidental damage, it's a manufacturing fault and is covered. Everything else is a result of accidental damage. My guess (based on similar experience) as to the rationale for them telling you to pay $755 to fix the computer is that you have effectively put apple in an untenable position re: applecare. Lets say in 2 years time, your hard drive dies. You go in and say,

"My HDD died, i have applecare, replace it please."
They'll say,
"hang on, you've got a dent here, did you drop it?"
You say,
"yeah, so what, it's a tiny dent?"
They say,
"well sorry applecare doesnt cover accidental damage and there is a good chance that you dropping the computer caused the HDD to fail."
Sounds reasonable to me. Far out, if you want accidental damage insurance (which Applecare obviously isnt and in no way claims to be), PAY FOR IT? After two accidents in less than 6 months i'd say it would be a wise investment. If not, don't expect someone else to pick up the fecking pieces when you have an accident.

As an aside, if you bought your computer with a credit card, check the contract and if you're lucky you might have 6month accidental damage insurance as an extra. Saved me $700 when i dropped a 2 week old PB.

[gyneric]

Originally Posted by dissapointed

Very unlucky? Dude, a computer is a high tech, complex piece of electronic equipment. If you drop it, or it slides off a seat, stuff breaks. What would you take them to small claims court for exactly? Not fixing your hinge?

"My HDD died, i have applecare, replace it please."
They'll say,
"hang on, you've got a dent here, did you drop it?"
You say,
"yeah, so what, it's a tiny dent?"
They say,
"well sorry applecare doesnt cover accidental damage and there is a good chance that you dropping the computer caused the HDD to fail."
Sounds reasonable to me. Far out, if you want accidental damage insurance (which Applecare obviously isnt and in no way claims to be), PAY FOR IT? After two accidents in less than 6 months i'd say it would be a wise investment. If not, don't expect someone else to pick up the fecking pieces when you have an accident.

I don't think you understand the problem here. Apple sold me a broken product. They promised me that it would be fixed, just after all of the traffic dies down in the store. It should have taken two hours, and I would be done. When I take it to get fixed, they don't do good on their promise and refuse me service. It's all on my case file.

And please remember that the powerbook was never dropped, it only has a small dent. After it received it's dent, there was absolutely no change in the functionality of the notebook - everything worked fine. There was no hard drive failure; if there was, I would totally understand why Applecare couldn't help me. And don't even try to say that the backlit keyboard failure was due to a dent; there was probably a manufacturing flaw and it failed one month later.

If I took them to small claims court, one of three things could happen. 1) Apple doesn't show up - I win. 2) Apple shows up and fails to produce records of my case file - I would likely win. and 3) Apple shows up and defends their position, referencing my case file - they refused to fix their broken product after promising me it would be fixed - I win.

[Big Mac]

Next time, buy Safeware insurance. . .

[jwoods]

Forget about the court. Are you a lawyer, or just listening to the ones that live in the dorm?
You have no case here.

You originally went in for the hinge. You come back, but now it's dented and has the keyboard backlight problem (which is probably why the keyboard has the backlight problem). You cannot expect them to repair that. You damaged it. If they just fixed the hinge, would you be happy? I doubt it.

You might can get the amount reduced if you go back and say, yes, I did damage this and this, but my case file shows the hinge was a manufactuering defect. Can I pay to have this and this fixed and have the hinge fixed under warranty?

Either way, you are going to have to pay to get the things YOU damaged fixed. Applecare covers defects and bad parts, nothing else. Sorry.

I think everyone understands your problem. You computer had a defect, you decided to wait to get it repaired, and then damaged it further. Then you took it in, and are upset that they won't fix it for free.

[dissapointed]

Originally Posted by gyneric

I don't think you understand the problem here. Apple sold me a broken product. They promised me that it would be fixed, just after all of the traffic dies down in the store. It should have taken two hours, and I would be done. When I take it to get fixed, they don't do good on their promise and refuse me service. It's all on my case file. [/B]

What did they promise you? A new hinge? Have they refused to replace your hinge?

Originally Posted by gyneric

[B]And please remember that the powerbook was never dropped, it only has a small dent. After it received it's dent, there was absolutely no change in the functionality of the notebook - everything worked fine.

Hmmmmm. How about the backlight not working anymore? If you think you've got a case, then go ahead and go to court. Personally i wouldnt waste my time. But If you think you've found some loophole in Apple's terms and conditions? You're studying to be an engineer and all, so maybe you can come up with some mathematics to prove how you couldnt possibly have damaged the inside of your computer because you didnt ding it with enough force.

And maybe if you do a really good job there, you wont have to worry about your other problem where Apple refuses to honour your applecare because, for all intents and purposes, you dropped your laptop. Why dont you worry about that rather than your precious hinge?

[gyneric]

I'm not expecting apple to fix my dent, or any damage I may have caused. I just want them to fix their manufacturing faults because I paid $2k+ for a notebook with a functioning hinge and backlight. Also, if I bought Applecare, wouldnt one think that applecare affords the owner the freedom to get problems fixed at the convenience of the customer? The fact that I waited should have no bearing on this issue, and I would hope Apple understands that.

[Enigmaaron]

Hey all, I finally decided to join the forums here. Long time Apple user that has been reading around here alot since MacWorld this year.

Anyway, having previously worked for a shool district that used mostly Macs and dealt with Apple service calls ALOT, maybe I can offer some advice. First off do not use the Apple store for AppleCare service. If you call Apple instead they cannot see your computer and therefore cannot see your untimely dent. They will only know what you tell them, and I'm willing to bet the only thing on record is that you called previously about the hinge, and that you had an appointment at the Apple store (the employees there are likely just closing the tickets for issues they aren't doing anything about and not entering any info).

So give them a call, say you have a busted hinge that you want fixed and nothing more. I have sent many a banged up laptop (these things were used by elementary school kids) into Apple for service and they have never refused to fix it once they got it after saying they would.

Case and point, just recently my brother's iBook slid out of his lap had a short fall which unfortunately hit square on his USB thumb drive sticking out the side. This broke the USB port loose rendering it useless. So we went to the Apple store and they said they wouldn't fix it because they could see the port was physically damaged (it was pushed in a bit). A week or so later Apple happened to call wanted to sell him AppleCare for his iBook. He mentioned that his USB port was broken and they told him it was covered. He purchased AppleCare, and had his laptop fixed and back in his hands in under two weeks.


Call AppleCare, only tell them what they need to know to fix your problem and they will.

P.S. You could take your chances and say that your network port is fried too. Say something like there was a thunderstorm the night before you noticed it didn't work anymore.

[dissapointed]

Originally Posted by gyneric

I'm not expecting apple to fix my dent, or any damage I may have caused. I just want them to fix their manufacturing faults because I paid $2k+ for a notebook with a functioning hinge and backlight. Also, if I bought Applecare, wouldnt one think that applecare affords the owner the freedom to get problems fixed at the convenience of the customer? The fact that I waited should have no bearing on this issue, and I would hope Apple understands that.

Nobody is denying your right to get things fixed whenever you want. It is the fact that you accidently damaged your notebook in the meantime that has created the problem. Why cant you see that? If the guy at the apple store wrote down that you had a busted hinge and it was covered by warranty (and you have a receipt to prove it) prior to you damaging yout notebook then i would assume you have every right to have the hinge fixed. As for any legitimate claims to getting the backlight fixed under warranty. Well, they dissapeared when you damaged the notebook.

And, i could be wrong, but i'm pretty sure that all Applecare does is extend normal warranty for an extra 2 years. I.e., it kicks in one year after you purchased the notebook. So it doesnt matter that you bought applecare. You're still covered by standard warranty. So stop talking about Applecare as though it entitles you to some extraordinary understanding.

Originally Posted by Enigmaaron

Case and point, just recently my brother's iBook slid out of his lap had a short fall which unfortunately hit square on his USB thumb drive sticking out the side. This broke the USB port loose rendering it useless. So we went to the Apple store and they said they wouldn't fix it because they could see the port was physically damaged (it was pushed in a bit). A week or so later Apple happened to call wanted to sell him AppleCare for his iBook. He mentioned that his USB port was broken and they told him it was covered. He purchased AppleCare, and had his laptop fixed and back in his hands in under two weeks.

Hmmm. Some great advice. Just lie, and hope that some retard deals with your claim.

Call AppleCare, only tell them what they need to know to fix your problem and they will.

Yes, this will work, as long as said retard deals with your claim.

P.S. You could take your chances and say that your network port is fried too. Say something like there was a thunderstorm the night before you noticed it didn't work anymore.

Yeah, because Apple covers damage caused by thunderstorm? What is it with people refusing to own up to there mistakes. Bunch of freeloading bums.

[romeosc]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Next time, buy Safeware insurance. . .

SECOND THAT!


Safeware has alwyas been good to me..... I had a broken hinge on a TIPB and they replaced screen and called to say battery(2 years old) was only holding a one hour charge!
They sent me a new battery as well as anew charger.... I didn't even send charger when it went in for repair...... NO DEDUCTABLE EITHER!

[jwoods]

Originally Posted by gyneric

I'm not expecting apple to fix my dent, or any damage I may have caused. I just want them to fix their manufacturing faults because I paid $2k+ for a notebook with a functioning hinge and backlight. Also, if I bought Applecare, wouldnt one think that applecare affords the owner the freedom to get problems fixed at the convenience of the customer? The fact that I waited should have no bearing on this issue, and I would hope Apple understands that.

So.....you want the hinge fixed right?

Your very first post mentioned that you didn't notice the backlight problem until after the dent. Ever think the dent is the reason the backlight is "screwy"? I bet the folks working at the Apple store did.

In my accounting from what you have said:

Apple: faulty hinge.

You: Ethernet port
backlight
dent

IF you were Apple, would you fix it for free?

Your inability, or lack of desire to get it fixed promptly is the major problem here. Personally, I wouldn't have waited. You were already at the Apple store. I'm sure others were submitting their machines for repair. The guy blew you off, and you let him do so. Then you damaged the computer further. Now you want it fixed. You rolled the dice and you lost. Accept it.

[Enigmaaron]

dissappointed:
I don't feel that what my brother did was necessarily the right thing to do, but it worked. Personally I think neglecting to tell Apple the whole truth is better than taking them to court because you are lazy and then dropped your laptop.

He had a legitimate problem that should have been fixed and was given bad advice by a similar said "retard" that you claim would give him service over the phone. No matter what he did to his laptop after the fact he still deserves to have his hinge fixed.

However, I would certainly take better care of my laptop.

[rickrobin]

I know a number of people who have had the most unbelievable problems with Applecare - and yes, it's definitely worse in the stores than direct on the phone. Gyneric, you should definitely pursue this directly with Apple. That hinge is a well known fault on those models, and the only thing that makes it impossible for them to assess what's dent related and what isn't is their self-serving policies. Applecare is an outrageous rip - nothing but a premium on the cost of computers that have an unacceptably limited and short warranty.

Ane there's a MUCH BETTER ALTERNATIVE: Pay for the computer with a Visa or MC Platinum or similar type card. They will extend the manufacturer's warranty for a year, and let you use whomever you like to do the repairs, as long as the prices are customary (ie, around what Apple's would be).

I had an iBook HD fail catastrophically within 16 months. If I had Applecare, Apple would only have given me another 40gig, 4200rpm drive (very possibly another garbage Hitachi, allowing me no say in the matter - who the **** do they think they are?!!)), taken a week to do the repair, and refused to return the original drive to me. Instead, for the same amount as their out of warranty price, I got a 100gig, 5400rpm Seagate with a 5 YEAR WARRANTY! The computer was picked up and returned to me within about 36 hours, my old drive was returned to me, I was reimbursed by Visa within about a week - AND I NEVER PAID A DIME in premiums!

I would say "Wake Up" to the apologists for the "man" on this forum who gave Gyneric a hard time, but they're of a type who derive a certain pleasure from what happens when you bend over. There's an astonishing lot of them these days, and they're the reason why everyone from Apple to Exxon - to Dubya - continues to get away with this ****.

[dissapointed]

Originally Posted by rickrobin

I know a number of people who have had the most unbelievable problems with Applecare....

How does anything you just said relate to his dropping and damaging his computer? No extended warranty would cover damage caused by that that unless it included accidental damage cover. Which, as has been said quite a few times, Applecare does not. Nobody here is apologising for the "man". Just asking that he take responsibility for his accidents. So what are we waking up to exactly? Should we all be more like the bloke suing apple for damaging his hearing? Because we all know that makes prices go down.

And why the anger at Apple for your hDD breaking? They didnt make it. And out of interest, how do you know apple would "only have given me another 40gig, 4200rpm drive....etc etc" if you didnt have applecare? Did you ring up and put some hypothetical "if i had applecare and this happened..." scenario to them? At the end of the day, if you think applecare is overpriced, dont buy it. There are plenty of others willing to give insurance for the right price. If you think Apple in general is overpriced. Dont buy Apple.

[robby818]

The best advice is to avoid the "geniuses" and communicate with apple via e-mail. Try to sound rational and reasonable and explain why the hinge should be repaired and point out that the dent is really unrelated..as a matter of fact i wouldnt even mention the dent or what the geniuses said..just send it in and it will probably be fixed.

i know people on this board love buying applecare but it really leaves a lot of room for apple to say sorry not covered. usually apple steps up and just takes care of things and in my experience apple has always "done the right thing", but sometimes you do need to press a bit to get the response you want, press but be polite about it.

[Enigmaaron]

Originally Posted by rickrobin

I had an iBook HD fail catastrophically within 16 months. If I had Applecare, Apple would only have given me another 40gig, 4200rpm drive (very possibly another garbage Hitachi, allowing me no say in the matter - who the **** do they think they are?!!)), taken a week to do the repair, and refused to return the original drive to me. Instead, for the same amount as their out of warranty price, I got a 100gig, 5400rpm Seagate with a 5 YEAR WARRANTY! The computer was picked up and returned to me within about 36 hours, my old drive was returned to me, I was reimbursed by Visa within about a week - AND I NEVER PAID A DIME in premiums!

I had a drive fail after about 16 months like that too (I think it was back in my PowerMac G3 desktop). I decided to call the manufacturer of the hard drive since most drives have at least a 3 year warranty. They sent me a new drive without any problem. If I remember correctly it was a Westarn Digital Caviar 4GB drive. Ha ha, so small.

[dsteinman]

Odd, my experineces with Apple service have been very good. I call with a problem, they overnight a box to me at the address I specify, I send it back, and the next day they send me a report. 2-3 days later I have my computer...

An accident is not Apple's problem, it is yours..

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by rickrobin

I know a number of people who have had the most unbelievable problems with Applecare - and yes, it's definitely worse in the stores than direct on the phone.

For me I've had very good expereinces with Apple care and to be honest good help from the genius bar. While I admit the latter was due to luck, since I prior help was less then helpful, so its hit or miss at the genius bar. Anyways I've always had my problems resolved easily and satisfactory with apple care. Luckily those issues are small in number and my Macs have been for the most part rock solid.

Mike

[bourgeoisie]

my first mac was a g3 ibook, with the infamous logic board issues. needless to say i've dealt with genius' and applecare many times. applecare via phone has always been far more helpful than the genius bar, genius' like to say "sorry i can't replicate the problem." and send me home with my sometimes-faulty, sometimes-not ibook.

that said, i think the best advice here is to call apple, tell them your hinge is faulty and that you'd like it replaced. don't mention the dent, backlight, or ethernet port since those things are likely all your fault (it happens sometimes, i won't chastise you for it). hopefully apple will take care of the hinge for you, and if you're lucky and the tech is feeling generous you might just get the other issues taken care of too. it would be dishonest to say any of those things are defects, but if they happen to fix them for you then cheers. good luck

ps. if you don't get anywhere with the first person you talk to, ask for a second-level technician, if you still get nowhere, ask for customer relations. that dent is an expensive way to learn how fragile aluminium powerbooks are, but you gotta own up to that (and the possibly-related backlight issues), just like you expect apple to own up to the hinge issue.

[Lazaro]

This is a little unrelated, but are the new MacBook's made with the same material as the Aluminum Powerbooks? Is it save to assume that they will also dent easily? I've had an iBook for a little over a year, I always keep it in a zeroshock case, and not problems so far. I'm thinking of getting a macbook in a few months, I take my ibook everywhere with me and I would hate to be too scared to take the macbook anywhere.

[slffl]

I agree they suck. I got a 17" PB Rev A with a bad DVI port, sent it in to be repaired, told me they couldn't reproduce the problem. I have since tried it with many different DVI cables and DVI monitors and it still exists. It must have been a Friday afternoon and they wanted to go home.

[jstein]

Originally Posted by Enigmaaron

First off do not use the Apple store for AppleCare service.

Enigmaaron brings up a good point right here.
Gyneric, I have had to use AppleCare a little more than I would have I like in 2005. Most of my experiences were good but AppleCare is far from perfect. So I will share with you what limited but potent information I have on dealing with AppleCare. If possible stay away from the Genius Bars, your life will be much easier. Apple is going to do everything in their power to steer you towards the Genius Bar. Do not go for it, for me it was simple the two Apple stores in my state are miles away from me. Just like you Gyneric, I am student and more importantly my time is valuable. Either way it goes in most cases your laptop is going to ship off anyway. DHL is pretty fast in bringing the box that you have to ship your computer back in. Depending on the driver, he may wait while you pack your computer and then take it with him.

The best thing about sending your own PB off is that rest assured you are going to definitely pack your machine up and nice and tight. I trust myself more than a person who has to deal with people all day and has to pack machines all day that after while they are going to just toss your machine into a box. (figuratively speaking of course)

The next thing to do is when having a problem with your machine and the customer care agent seems to be a little aloof about things, ask politely of course to speak to an engineer or a supervisor. In my dealings with AppleCare the engineers actually know how the machines work and are not looking up answers to your question in a manual or at Apple’s website. Even here stamina becomes an issue see they deal with less people so their attitudes are a lot better than customer care reps that answer the phone.

Gyrneric, you may have put yourself in a tough bind, because Apple is becoming even stricter on repairs. See so many people abuse their machines so bad and some are so touchy that Apple wants you to go to the Apple store so the so called genius can see if one’s damage is from mistreatment or something cosmetic etc etc… Stay out of there at all cost.

If I was you I would call Apple one more time about your initial issue and explain that this is not the first time you have called in about this issue. If possible you would like to speak to someone in charge and state your case to them.

If all else fails you may have to go to a third party for repair job on your dent and maybe they will be able to repair your hinge for little or nothing but if not have them repair you minor dent and get right back on the phone with AppleCare to take care of your other issues.

[markus]

if someone pays $350 or whatever the cost of applecare may be, a small dent shouldn't be a factor in any repair/warranty issue. i do expect a company like apple to stand behind their warranty no matter what the damage, provided someone's shelled out the extra cash for applecare. applecare is just another way for apple to wring a little more money out of the consumer when they are buying apple products. all this "it's your fault for the dent, too bad you waited" talk is ridiculous. he paid extra for applecare because he thought he'd be covered in this situation. i could understand if a customer sans applecare was denied service.. it seems to me appledontcare

[dissapointed]

Originally Posted by markus

if someone pays $350 or whatever the cost of applecare may be, a small dent shouldn't be a factor in any repair/warranty issue. i do expect a company like apple to stand behind their warranty no matter what the damage, provided someone's shelled out the extra cash for applecare.

Here is limitation ii in the the Applecare protection plan T&Cs:
"The plan does not cover...Damage to the Covered Equipment caused by accident, abuse, neglect, misuse (including faulty installation, repair, or maintenance by anyone other than Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider), unauthorized modification, extreme environment (including extreme temperature or humidity), extreme physical or electrical stress or interference, fluctuation or surges of electrical power, lightning, static electricity, fire, acts of God or other external causes;"

So as far as i can see, assuming they fix the hinge, they are standing behind their warranty. Saying that they should repair anything "no matter what the damage" is ridiculous. Lets say im riding to work and my powerbook falls out of my bag hits the road and gets run over by a car. Should that be covered? Why do you assume that applecare includes accidental damage insurance?

Originally Posted by markus

applecare is just another way for apple to wring a little more money out of the consumer when they are buying apple products.

How? they dont force you to buy it.

Originally Posted by markus

all this "it's your fault for the dent, too bad you waited" talk is ridiculous. he paid extra for applecare because he thought he'd be covered in this situation.

Clearly he thought wrong. But anyway, as has already been said, his computr is less than a year old and is still covered by warranty so it doesnt matter that he has Applecare.

Originally Posted by markus

i could understand if a customer sans applecare was denied service.. it seems to me appledontcare

You're probably right, apple dont care. They simply respond to their obligations under law. Or if they can see a buck in it, they'll pretend to care. Just like every other business, large and small in the world.

I think applecare is overpriced compared to say the service offered by Dell. You can get 4yr warranty with accidental damge cover for $257 for an $1600 inspiron 6000. Make of that what you will. But at the end of the day, nobody forces you to buy applecare and if you do, everything you need to know is in the terms and conditions if you take the time to read them.

[DrunkenTech]

Not all Mac Geniuses suck.

But yeah, if you dent the crap out of your stuff, the warranty is over. The good part is that when you pay for a repair with accidental damage, the way the Apple Stores and AppleCare over the phone do it, you would actually pay for the repair of the broken ethernet port and the hinge/case damage would be covered under that repair cost as well. It's expensive, close to $1000, but what do you want? A $5 Soyo mobo as a replacement? You'll get your busted shiat taken care of, both the issues caused by you and the factory. Plus, we get to hear less about how Apple and Mac Geniuses suck. It's getting to be like complaining about MS on /.

[kshack]

Originally Posted by gyneric

I'm making this post is case anyone has had an experience similar to mine, and maybe they'll know what to do. So bear with me...

I purchased a g4 15" powerbook in September of 05 (my first mac) and everything worked great. That is until my friend, also a powerbook user, noticed one week later that the hinge was a little loose. I thought it was supposed to flex a little bit and he argues that his is very stable. He even showed me how the left side of the hinge was slightly misaligned and how it shifted very slightly when the lid is closed, while the right side is fixed. So I call apple, because I bought the apple care and they'll take care of it, right?

I spent about an hour on the phone and explained everything, and from what I could understand (the guy spoke broken, shattered, and smashed english), apple was going to fix it. We never got to the part where I send it in because I was running short on time and couldn't understand the guy anyway. I figured I would take it back to the apple store later.

Some weeks go by and the while the hinge didn't present any noticable problems, the lid would sometimes pop back up while the laptop was in sleep. I assume this is because the left side of the hinge is putting stress on the lid when closed. It wasn't too much of a problem, because the notebook mostly sat unused in my bag. Then one day, a friend of mine trips over an ethernet cord and pulls it out of the powerbook. The locking mechanism on the RJ-45 jack is now screwed. "take it back to the apple store," my friends tell me, "because they're cool and they'll fix it."

I finally make it to the apple store and I explained how the hinge was "broken" from the day I bought it, and that it took another powerbook user to notice the flaw. The genius told me they will fix everything in the store (I didn't want to send it out) once they order the parts. The genius advised me to come back after the holidays to get the part order out, and they'll call me when the parts come in.

About two weeks later, my powerbook suffers a small dent, after my laptop bag slid behind a seat in a lecture hall at my university (stadium kind of seats). What I mean to say, is that the my bag did not even free fall, it slid about 9 inches and got a dent through a layer of thick leather and neoprene (the laptop case itself). I just sort of shrugged it off, I had heard the aluminum powerbooks dent very easily.

So the other day, I noticed my backlit keyboard was all screwy. The letters R,T,G,H,N,&M were very bright, while every other key were rather dim. So I figure its finally time to take it back in.

On Jan 28th, the genius at the apple store wouldnt even go near my powerbook once he saw the dent on the front left corner. Him and his other genius sidekick decreed that I have to spend $755 for repairs before apple care would fix anything again. So even though they have on record that they sold me a powerbook with a broken hinge, they won't touch it because of their little loophole - applecare wont cover accidential damage. (even when the accidential damage occurs in their factory!) And how could my backlit keyboard go dim from a dent - one month earlier?

I brielfy conseidered taking them to small claims court, but I don't know where I would find the time for that. Is this how apple treats all of their customers? Or am I just very unlucky?

Well I see both sides of the story. You could be 100% not guilty in your actions... But think of this scenario, If you buy a brand new car and you notice your bumper had bubbles in the paint, then you get rear ended while driving, would a dealer fix it? Probably not.

I had something similar happen but it wasn't my fault. I was at the airport going through the metal detector then one of the guys looking through my bag dropped my powerbook and broke the hinge (he also pretended nothing happend). My apple care did not fix that issue, so I had apple fix the problem with my cash and sued the airport and got my money for damages and time.

As far as sueing apple, you don't have a case.
Take a look at http://www.apple.com/legal/applecare/appna.pdf
b. Limitations The Plan does not cover:
(i) Installation, removal or disposal of the Covered Equipment, or installation, removal, repair, or maintenance of non-Covered Equipment (including
accessories, attachments, or other devices such as external modems) or electrical service external to the Covered Equipment;
(ii) Damage to the Covered Equipment caused by accident, abuse, neglect, misuse (including faulty installation, repair, or maintenance by anyone other than
Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider), unauthorized modification, extreme environment (including extreme temperature or humidity), extreme
physical or electrical stress or interference, fluctuation or surges of electrical power, lightning, static electricity, fire, acts of God or other external causes;
(iii) Covered Equipment with a serial number that has been altered, defaced or removed;
(iv) Problems caused by a device that is not the Covered Equipment, including equipment that is not Apple-branded, whether or not purchased at the same
time as the Covered Equipment;
(v) Service necessary to comply with the regulations of any government body or agency arising after the date of this Plan;
(vi) The provision of replacement equipment during the period when the Covered Equipment is being repaired;
(vii) Covered Equipment that has been lost or stolen. This Plan only covers Covered Equipment that is returned to Apple in its entirety;
(viii) Cosmetic damage to the Covered Equipment including but not limited to scratches, dents and broken plastic on ports, that does not otherwise affect its
functionality or materially impair your use;
(ix) Consumable parts, such as batteries, except in respect of battery coverage under APP for iPod or unless failure has occurred due to a defect in materials
and workmanship;
(x) Preventative maintenance on the Covered Equipment; or
(xi) Damage to, or loss of any software or data residing or recorded in the Covered Equipment. When providing repair or replacement service, Apple will use
reasonable efforts to reinstall the Covered Equipment’s original software configuration and subsequent update releases, but will not provide any recovery or
transfer of software or data contained on the serviced unit not originally included in the Covered Equipment.

[freakboy2]

I think you would win a court case here. The first damage to the powerbook was caused by the faulty hinge.. any damage done after that is at least partially due to the broken hinge. The fact is that you tried to get apple to fix it and they put you off (until after the holidays).

There is no way to prove that the dent or the broken hinge caused the damage, but since the hinge was first, the later damage would be covered. That's what I'd tell them.

Of course, since you've told us that you damaged it by dropping it, and that a friend tripped over the ethernet cable. I'd say that in good conscience you should just ask apple to fix the hinge for free.

And don't think that this is limited to applecare. Put a dent into a dell and try to get it fixed. It's the whole industry, and there is a good reason for it. Because there is no way to tell between accidental damage and intentional damage. Imagine the world of hurt that apple would be in, if you could just hammer your laptop into dust and then expect to get a new one.

I'm sure that if you call them up and are reasonable on the phone, that they will at least fix the hinge.

[morffius]

Its not the whole industry. My brother tripped over the powercable of my Thinkpad T42 and it fell about 7 feet and broke a corner of the laptop. I called Lenovo, and they fixed it without question. The problem was they never fixed it right, and after 4 times sending it back, i got heated and they gave me a new T43. It sounds like Apple is a bit stingy.

[freakboy2]

Originally Posted by morffius

Its not the whole industry. My brother tripped over the powercable of my Thinkpad T42 and it fell about 7 feet and broke a corner of the laptop. I called Lenovo, and they fixed it without question. The problem was they never fixed it right, and after 4 times sending it back, i got heated and they gave me a new T43. It sounds like Apple is a bit stingy.

i think one's mileage may vary. Some companies have better policies than others. One thing that's definitely true, is that having the magnetically attached cable will save apple a whole big pile of money. That alone will reduce the number of people with broken laptops. tripping over cables must be close to the #1 cause of laptop damage.

And for the record, the applecare policy does cover normal wear and tear. so if you can argue that the dent didn't cause any immediate damage, then they should fix all of it.

What I mean by normal wear and tear is this: you buy a laptop. You are expected to use it. Laptops go into bags and get carried around. If you take reasonable care of it, and it breaks, then it's covered under the warrantee. Otherwise, the warrantee isn't worth anything.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by gyneric

I don't think you understand the problem here. Apple sold me a broken product. They promised me that it would be fixed, just after all of the traffic dies down in the store. It should have taken two hours, and I would be done. When I take it to get fixed, they don't do good on their promise and refuse me service. It's all on my case file.

And please remember that the powerbook was never dropped, it only has a small dent. After it received it's dent, there was absolutely no change in the functionality of the notebook - everything worked fine. There was no hard drive failure; if there was, I would totally understand why Applecare couldn't help me. And don't even try to say that the backlit keyboard failure was due to a dent; there was probably a manufacturing flaw and it failed one month later.

If I took them to small claims court, one of three things could happen. 1) Apple doesn't show up - I win. 2) Apple shows up and fails to produce records of my case file - I would likely win. and 3) Apple shows up and defends their position, referencing my case file - they refused to fix their broken product after promising me it would be fixed - I win.

Your assessment is WRONG.

The problem YOU'RE not understanding - and I say this as someone who actually works in retail - is that damage to the book due to negligence/abuse probably makes it pretty much impossible to determine whether the hinge problem is a manufacturing defect or a result of the damage.

The warranty does not and CANNOT apply under these circumstances.

Of course, you say that the defect existed before (and note that I do believe you), but so does every single Tom, Dick, and Harry that walks into the store with a banged-up broken Powerbook.


Your only chance is to talk or mail your way through the AppleCare Support hierarchy and hope for a friendly resolution.

The fact that *they* told you to come back in after the holidays will work in your favor, and deciding whether a dent is "normal" wear and tear or actually voids the warranty is actually a matter of opinion to some extent, though it's up to Apple.

Realize that legally, they owe you nothing, so be nice.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by slffl

I agree they suck. I got a 17" PB Rev A with a bad DVI port, sent it in to be repaired, told me they couldn't reproduce the problem. I have since tried it with many different DVI cables and DVI monitors and it still exists. It must have been a Friday afternoon and they wanted to go home.

Not to be rude (and this is off-topic here), but are you absolutely positive that it's defective hardware?

Generally, the first thing a tech will do is to boot the machine from an external hard drive with a known-to-be-good system and then see if the problem shows up (unless it's specifically described as an intermittent problem).

If it doesn't, it's packed right back up and sent back to the customer, since it can't be a hardware problem.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by analogika

Your assessment is WRONG.

The problem YOU'RE not understanding - and I say this as someone who actually works in retail - is that damage to the book due to negligence/abuse probably makes it pretty much impossible to determine whether the hinge problem is a manufacturing defect or a result of the damage.

The warranty does not and CANNOT apply under these circumstances.

I agree with analogika,

Because the PB was damaged because of the drop, apple typically will not fix the hinge under applecare. Any physical damage from a drop negates any other issue that was defective.

Did you try calling apple? Because you did call them before, they may have it logged in and its possible that you still can get it repaired under warranty. Thet still will charge you for the case to be repaired though.