[Daniel Bayer]

Does anyone have practical experience with the use of photovoltaic cells to recharge and keep Powerbook batteries topped off??

I am looking to the future of my career and how to better serve my clients.

This, in my opinion, would be one step in bieng seamless.

? ??

[gaianchild]

Originally posted by Daniel Bayer:
[...] the use of photovoltaic cells to recharge and keep Powerbook batteries topped off??

I like this idea!
Someone has any eyperience?

gaianchild

[macxtal]

I work with solar cells and whatnot.. yes, you could do it, you would need a regulator, though. I think you would probably be stuck with a external battery charger though - it is unlikely the powerbook could deal with wildly fluctuating power sources on it's native DC input. I might be wrong though.

It would certainly be feasible to design a seperate battery pack that a solar cell recharged that provided DC power into the notebook. Altneratively, you could design an external charger for powerbook batteries - I have seen these for Dell units, but never for apples.

Unless you are out in the congo though, it's a much superior option to charge off a readily available source like a car battery, or carry an additional battery. It will be much cheaper. For a while when I was out in the field for awhile I had a lead-acid battery pack in a case I used for powering a x86 notebook that worked very well (think 12hrs+ heavy use). If I had to do it again I'd probably build another one of those, or get a pile of lithium cells.

Hope that helps!

[CyberPet]

I have a recollection of something like this being used for the PowerBooks before. I think it was a few years back and they were very, very expensive. A friend of mine had one and it was working great even if it was cloudy. He always made sure he got a window seat on the bus or train and then he tucked that thing towards the window and was able to run his PowerBook.

I could ask my friend more about this if you want and see what he really thought of it and how it was set up.

[gaianchild]

Originally posted by CyberPet:
I could ask my friend more about this if you want and see what he really thought of it and how it was set up.

That would be really nice. Maybe these things got quite a bit cheaper the last years, as solar cells dropped in price quite a bit. Maybe he still knows the company the charger was made by?

thanks!

[CyberPet]

OK, want me to ask some specific questions? I could write him an email with the questions. You can email me if you don't want to ask the questions here.

[jamez bond]

It [can] be done, but at a price. You would probably need wuite a complex control system for this....varying output, like said before.
Another alternative could be to use a windup mechanism like Trevor Bayliss windup torch. He has used this to power a laptop (I have seen a demonstration of this) and he also looked into an electronic game/education tool for kids using this very mechanism.
This would be a far cheaper way of getting alternative powr, albeit on expence that you would have to wind the thing up every now and then...by how much/how often, I don't know. Haven't done the math.

Another alternative that looks great is the fuelcell technology coming out. I don't know very much about it yet, but this certainly looks feasible and attractive.

There are other arrangements to use kinetic energy as well, but I won't go into it unless someone are really interested in this.

There is an external battery charger available for the powerbook, but it cost $280!
here:
Battery charger

This probably indicate the complex circuitry needed for the charging of these batteries...

[CyberPet]

I've been thinking... you can charge your Mac buy hooking it up to a cigarette lighter in a car, wouldn't that be a way to do it?

[jamez bond]

hmmm...don't you then have a balanced input from the car already...? Pluss, you would need a car...heck, my mini don't even have a cigarett ligther socket...

[msykes]

Originally posted by CyberPet:
I've been thinking... you can charge your Mac buy hooking it up to a cigarette lighter in a car, wouldn't that be a way to do it?

Yes you can, I guess the real problem is that there are plenty of occasions where we use our powerbooks away from our car or a readily available AC outlet.

I've always thought the wind up option sounded like a good one, though I really have no idea how much winding you'd need to do to generate a reasonable amount of charge into the battery. I could imagine Apple laptops coming with a small slot (almost like the security slot) where you would attach a removable handle that could be used to wind under occasions of low battery.

I have a feeling though that Apple themselves would never want to integrate such a low-tech solution into their high-tech machines!

[CyberPet]

Originally posted by jamez bond:
hmmm...don't you then have a balanced input from the car already...? Pluss, you would need a car...heck, my mini don't even have a cigarett ligther socket...

Apple sell those cigarette adapters, s� the connector would work and the little charger-box would probably be able to maintain the voltage since you just change the "contact"... like you can do with their traveler kit when you go abroad (like it handles 240V/120V).

Could be a cool business if its possible to keep the cost down. The solar cells are getting better and better at preserving light, even if it's not sunny. Would be a great idea too for those who works in countries where the hydro is not trusted much.

I could beta-test one during the summers here in northern Sweden, we have daylight 24/7 then (although not now *sigh* the winter s*cks).

[dialo]

There a a bunch of solar solutions for laptops. People use them for things like bike trips and hiking. Here are some links:

http://www.gosolar.u-net.com/Portabl...er_systems.htm
http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/touring/laptop.htm
http://briandesousa.com/bicycling/bikecurrent/solar.htm
http://rmowe.home.att.net/photovoltaic.html
http://www.mrsolar.com/kits/laptop.htm


These are just a couple from the first page of a 'solar laptop' google search.

I was thinking about getting one for when I'm out in the desert.

[pyrocat]

Siemens and AstroPower make PV modules for portables. Amazingly, PV chargers have been around almost as long as laptops. Do a search at google or Yahoo! or altavista for manufacturers that use those modules for their chargers. Cost is $200-300 or so--much better than the $2000 cost when they first came on the market. There used to be one designed specifically for the PB 1400. They're more generic now.

pYrOcat


WEBMONKEY Sez - "telecommuting" is just another way of saying "lying naked with your laptop on the front lawn."

[ebisix]

Originally posted by Daniel Bayer:
Does anyone have practical experience with the use of photovoltaic cells to recharge and keep Powerbook batteries topped off??

I am looking to the future of my career and how to better serve my clients.

This, in my opinion, would be one step in bieng seamless.

? ??

I like this idea especially because it is wireless.

[Daniel Bayer]

Thanks everyone for the input! Keep it coming no doubt.

I really like the Mrsolar site. Less than $300 is good enough for me. If I can charge camera batteries too it would be killer for out in the field...........plus...with the way the world is anymore....well, Who knows?

[Misanthrope]

For those of you who recall, the old PowerBook 1400's had bookcovers. Basically, these were inserts you could put that were on the back end of the LCD, so others could see whatever you wanted to put. They made all sorts of artistic ones and stuff...they also made one with a solar panel on it.

Just a little FYI.

EDIT: ****, sorry, didn't see pyrocats post.

[pyrocat]

quote:

Thanks everyone for the input! Keep it coming no doubt.

I really like the Mrsolar site. Less than $300 is good enough for me. If I can charge camera batteries too it would be killer for out in the field...........plus...with the way the world is anymore....well, Who knows?

-------

Contact AstroPower directly. They design and make the PV cells and panels that are used for a variety of off-grid electric power. Go with a U.S. company with lots of experience and a good track record. You can contact them directly by phone or email <http://www.astropower.com> and find out who uses their cells for battery chargers and powering laptops.

They're located in Delaware, an offshoot of University of Delaware's solar power research in the '70s. AstroPower is doing a lot of business in California these days; since the bogus energy crisis [er, price gouging], renewable energy and conservation are more popular than ever. I also saw a PV display for AstroPower's panels at several Home "Labyrinth" [Depot] stores in the electric dept. near the front of the stores.

pYrOcat

[Podolsky]

A few years back I spent most of my time away for electrical power and away from autos in the Amazon and elsewhere and I ran quite a few older PowerBooks using solar to recharge. In fact Apple gave me a 165c (remember that one.....), and sent me to Costa Rica to run it in the field (I am a biologist). It was very handy to use solar to recharge the batteries and I am sure the current equipment mentioned by others here would be more efficient than the stuff I used a while back. In the field and away from power and autos (if you find yourself is such dire straits, it is the only way to go short of carrying a lot of batteries.......

[Vond]

Originally posted by CyberPet:
Apple sell those cigarette adapters, s� the connector would work and the little charger-box would probably be able to maintain the voltage since you just change the "contact"... like you can do with their traveler kit when you go abroad (like it handles 240V/120V).

Actually, I think the DC adaptors (for cars, planes, gel-cell batteries, whateve) would replace the charger-box with a lot less electronics, rather than adapt it. Though it handles all sorts of AC power, I don't think it can function on DC.

[Gametes]

I'm having a hard time locating all the information in a unified way... what is the wattage of the 12" pb? voltage? It seems each site I visit states the electrical output of their brand in a different system. Are there any abnormal conditions that must be met for the PB?

I'm joining the Peace Corps (hopefully) in september, and I want to take my laptop with me to the land of no electricity.

Thanks

[pyrocat]

Originally posted by Gametes:
I'm having a hard time locating all the information in a unified way... what is the wattage of the 12" pb? voltage? It seems each site I visit states the electrical output of their brand in a different system. Are there any abnormal conditions that must be met for the PB?

I'm joining the Peace Corps (hopefully) in september, and I want to take my laptop with me to the land of no electricity.

Thanks

I searched 'solar laptop battery charger' on Google and found some good links. Some are for chargers and others are panels that power a laptop.
http://www.realgoods.com/renew/shop/product.cfm?dp=1000&ts=1011164
http://www.aapspower.com/modular-and-hybrid-systems.html
http://www.cetsolar.com/ppslap.htm

Why not contact the owner of this page-- http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/touring/laptop.htm
Bicycle Touring with a Solar Laptop

Let us know if you find what you need!

pYrOcat

[mcs37]

I've always wanted one of those! Perhaps specifically designed for a PowerBook. I also thought a foot-cranked generator would be a neat way to power my laptop and work out at the same time. But as for the cells, it would be sweet to get power if you're on safari or something. Somewhere where you can't get power but lots of sun! If there is anything, I'd be a big fan of it. Especially if it was very compact/foldable. Apple should really invest some R&D into this idea. I doubt it would cost much to research; it would be more a matter of making it look cool. I'd buy one for $300 if it could keep my PB running. Maybe have a little LCD showing how charged the battery is inside the unit.

[mcs37]

Originally posted by jamez bond:
Another alternative that looks great is the fuelcell technology coming out. I don't know very much about it yet, but this certainly looks feasible and attractive.

Fuel cells are promising. A bottle of vodka could power your laptop for weeks (supposedly, they think they could get 10 hours of power on a shot of vodka or tequila). Search Wired.com for "booze" for info on ethanol fuel cells. It would be annoying (otherwise) to have to haul along hydrogen or methanol cartridges.

[pyrocat]

Originally posted by mcs37:
Fuel cells are promising. A bottle of vodka could power your laptop for weeks (supposedly, they think they could get 10 hours of power on a shot of vodka or tequila). Search Wired.com for "booze" for info on ethanol fuel cells. It would be annoying (otherwise) to have to haul along hydrogen or methanol cartridges.

No! Fuel cells are a ridiculous idea. Do you need all that power for your CD drive? Or is this just an excuse to keep a bottle of tequila in your laptop bag? Hmmmmmmmmmmm?

The notebook sized photovoltaic power cells have been around for 10 years and are finally affordable. And they work! The most sensible and elegant solution is usually the simplest. "Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler." - Albert Einstein



pYrOcat

[Gametes]

For example, this panel is 30W. The PB adapter is 65W, I think. Does that mean I couldn't use it at all(I would need another panel), or could I use it to charge the powerbook but not run it?

[macxtal]

Originally posted by Gametes:
For example, this panel is 30W. The PB adapter is 65W, I think. Does that mean I couldn't use it at all(I would need another panel), or could I use it to charge the powerbook but not run it?

The powerbook requires a LOT of power at it's peak. I'm not sure what the constant demands are, but I'm guessing they around be very close to, if not higher than that 35W panel can put out at it's peak. You can never run a computer directly off solar - the fluctuations in current are much to large to make it practical. You could, however, charge the powerbook very easily off a 35W solar panel. You would need an appropriate regulator, however.

I am unsure if the powerbook will run transparently if it's DC supply drops the amount of current below what's required, if it will pick up off the battery. I suppose it might. You could use the 35W panel then to extend the runtime of your powerbook somewhat, then. A regulator would still be required.

[pyrocat]

Originally posted by Gametes:
For example, this panel is 30W. The PB adapter is 65W, I think. Does that mean I couldn't use it at all(I would need another panel), or could I use it to charge the powerbook but not run it?

I contacted the sales staff at CT Solar. Here's the reply:

Q. Will this panel work with my Apple iBook [600 MHz], for power or recharging the battery?

A. Yes, if you can get a 12 Volt adaptor for your laptop (i.e. one designed to run from an automobile cigarette lighter port).

You would need a 20 or 30 watt Expedition panel plus the power center (battery plus charge controller).

You can't just connect a panel to your laptop, you need the power center with a battery to keep things at 12 volts and to store charge. The charge controller is attatched to the 7 amp hour battery and has an LED to indicate the battery voltage.

Power center link: http://www.ctsolar.com/Expedition%20...r%20center.htm

You can use either a 20W or 30W panel, either will work. 30W will keep things better charged if you're involved in places where it's not always sunny. The 20W is a bit smaller and a tad lighter. Both panels are epoxy and rigid. They zip closed with a ballistic nylon case.

All items in stock and we can ship them out Priority Mail in short order. Just find a 12V auto adaptor for you laptop and should be good to go.

Regards and thanks for the inquiry.

Ian Cummings
CTSolar
---------------------
Similar products from other manufacturers and dealers should have the same requirements.

pYrOcat

[Gametes]

Ok I've been swimming in this stuff for a week, and I think I've found something that will work.

Get a solar panel. It has a cigarette outlet.
For just DC devices, including a PowerBook or cell phone, get a DC Adapter (This one is PB specific). Make sure you have the correct tip fro your device.
For any device, using its own adapter from a wall outlet, you can get a AC adapter and then bring each device's own adapter. This is more flexible, but will require more money, space, and is less energy efficient. I also hasten to point out that -- the hardest thing to find out -- this sort of solution will work for devices that either have batteries or run on low voltages only. You cannot run your PB off of it, but you can charge it (I think, will confirm).

I'm going to spend 2 years in the Peace Corps and would like to bring my computer for journal writing, grants, and so I can keep up with my hobbies while away. The first solution is the one I am thinking of getting myself at this point, as I know the list of electronics I will bring and it is short.

It looks as though 1 panel can provide a 25% charge each day; 2, 50%. That's over an hour I could use it each day for 1 panel, so for 200$ ($.25 each day) I can have a computer. I'm about to order it, and I'll let all know here once I get it if my computer blows up, doesn't charge, or works great.

[macxtal]

Something you might not have considered:

Why not get a small lead-acid battery that's 12V - you used to be able to buy small ones used for alarm system backups at Radio Shack that were 6V, so wire two of them in series. Or a small 12V battery used for starting recreational vehicles. Then use the solar panel to charge the small storage battery, and charge your powerbook from that. That way you don't have to have your power book tied up for charging.

Just a thought .

[pyrocat]

Why not get a small lead-acid battery that's 12V...

That makes no sense. It's one more big thing to carry. Better idea is to have two laptop batteries. Charge one, use the other. Since the charge time is quite long, having two batteries will increase your usage time.

By next year, Dean Kamen <http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.09/kamen_pr.html> may have his Stirling engine on the market. That can be used to power a generator for DC electricity. Failing that, lightweight reflector solar collector with a fresnel lens can be used to generate power for electricity.

You'll be away for 2 years? In the same location? A good project would be to provide power through wind generation. I've seen wind generators all along coastal Europe, from Sweden and Denmark to Spain to Greece.

Some Bedouin Arabs have been using portable photovoltaics for their refrigerators and TVs in the desert for nearly 20 years. I can't believe that you can't get something comparable in the US. I'm sure you'd be able to get a portable system to provide a 100% charge if you searched outside the US. Try Austrialia or Germany or Sweden or Canada. Search at google.com.au or google.de, etc. Outside the US, there are plenty of companies and people who care about energy efficiency, and don't want to rely on big utility companies, or live too far from the power grid.

pYrOcat

[macxtal]

Why not get a small lead-acid battery that's 12V...

That makes no sense.

It makes a lot of sense. You can get a charge controller for 12V batteries off the shelf at very low cost. A charger designed for the lithium ion battery would be much more expensive if it was even available. Perhaps I am wrong about the availabily of such a charger.

A small lead acid battery of the type I described (UPS/Alarm system) weighs maybe 5lb and is the size of a cdrom drive cut in two longitudally.

If I was going to the boonies for two years, I'd get me a 35W high efficiency panel, a small lead/acid deep cycle battery, a 12V-115V adapter, and a 12V-notebook voltage adapter.

Another note, don't go 12v-115V-powerbook adapter - you will lose about 40% of your power in conversion losses.

[lj39]

www.realgoods.com

[pyrocat]

Originally posted by lj39:
www.realgoods.com

shades of 1973!! If they don't have what you need, it may not exist.

pYrOcat