[l008com]

First thing I need to know is how do you browser for fileservers? The browse button in the connect window in the finder, takes you to your "network" but only shows computers you are attached to. I want to connect to computers on my network that are DHCP, so I don't know their IP addresses. Also, I've noticed that sometimes I can connect to local machines without their icons showing up on the desktop, which means I can't disconnect from them. But i can navigate them because they show up in the "network" This is very strange behavior.

[cpac]

I'm seeing this too - First time I'm up on my law school's windows network. While the workgroup (LAW) shows up as a folder in "Network" it claims to have zero items inside it.

I presume this is because I would need to log in somewhere to be able to see any of those items, but I don't know how to do that...

I'm also not getting the windows printing to work at all... no printers show up and I can't type in a smb:// address manually anywhere....

[tooki]

I realized that Panther's Finder has severe networking schizophrenia.

It has TWO totally separate (!), not mutually exclusive ways of connecting to servers!!!!!

One way is to connect by double-clicking a server in the Network window. It brings up a password dialog box that has Cancel, Guest, and OK buttons (no way to save in Keychain), and then, all the shares on that server show up in the window for that server. The shares are mounted under /private/var/automount/Network/ServerName/ShareName (e.g. for my server Crawdad, the share Cambaridae is at /private/var/automount/Network/Crawdad/Cambaridae). The only way to unmount these cleanly is using the command line (sudo umount [path to the share])!!!! Shares mounted this way do not show up on the desktop nor in the sidebar.

The other way is when you know the URL of the share. Either in the Connect to Server window, where you can enter the IP address or other URL, or in any browser, where you can enter, for example "afp://192.168.0.3" or even, for example, "afp://crawdad.local."

Mounting that way gives you a password dialog with 3 buttons: Options..., Cancel, and Connect. (This is the old familiar password dialog box.) This then brings the list of available shares, which you can shift-select from, and these mount on the desktop and sidebar and can be ejected by dragging to the trash or pressing the little eject button in the sidebar. These shares mount at /Volumes/Sharename, for example, /Volumes/Cambaridae.

These two methods are not mutually exclusive, so you can have the same share mounted twice.

Yikes!


Also, I found that after installing Panther, the Network alias found at "My Computer" didn't work, nor did the Browse button in the Connect to Server dialog (which simply loads the Network alias). Deleting my Finder and desktop preference files, then logging out and back in, fixed this.

tooki

[tooki]

This thread (now closed in order to keep everything in one place) has some info, too.
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=184674

tooki

[frhamill]

I deleted the desktop and finder preferences, but still no change in Panther's behavior. This networking issue is all over the discussion board on Apple's site. I still cannot believe that something so integral to OS X and so touted by Apple was not rigorously tested before 10.3's release. We're not talking some obscure function here... I'm hoping their is only a simple glitch....

[Anand]

Originally posted by frhamill:
I deleted the desktop and finder preferences, but still no change in Panther's behavior. This networking issue is all over the discussion board on Apple's site. I still cannot believe that something so integral to OS X and so touted by Apple was not rigorously tested before 10.3's release. We're not talking some obscure function here... I'm hoping their is only a simple glitch....

I agree 100%. And thanks tooki for the explaination. Is there any way for some 3rd party fix for this?

[Mr Scruff]

Originally posted by tooki:
I realized that Panther's Finder has severe networking schizophrenia.

It has TWO totally separate (!), not mutually exclusive ways of connecting to servers!!!!!

One way is to connect by double-clicking a server in the Network window. It brings up a password dialog box that has Cancel, Guest, and OK buttons (no way to save in Keychain), and then, all the shares on that server show up in the window for that server. The shares are mounted under /private/var/automount/Network/ServerName/ShareName (e.g. for my server Crawdad, the share Cambaridae is at /private/var/automount/Network/Crawdad/Cambaridae). The only way to unmount these cleanly is using the command line (sudo umount [path to the share])!!!! Shares mounted this way do not show up on the desktop nor in the sidebar.

The other way is when you know the URL of the share. Either in the Connect to Server window, where you can enter the IP address or other URL, or in any browser, where you can enter, for example "afp://192.168.0.3" or even, for example, "afp://crawdad.local."

Mounting that way gives you a password dialog with 3 buttons: Options..., Cancel, and Connect. (This is the old familiar password dialog box.) This then brings the list of available shares, which you can shift-select from, and these mount on the desktop and sidebar and can be ejected by dragging to the trash or pressing the little eject button in the sidebar. These shares mount at /Volumes/Sharename, for example, /Volumes/Cambaridae.

These two methods are not mutually exclusive, so you can have the same share mounted twice.

Yikes!

Without having done extensive testing on Panther - I took it that the first method you outline is standard style 'automounting', similar to where you browse network shares on windows.

You don't need to explicitly unmount these shares as the automounter handles the mounting/unmounting process as neccessary.

The second method you describe is more akin to manual 'hard' mounts, although on OS X this also uses the apple automounter which confuses the issue...

Basically, there's nothing wrong with there being two methods, one of which doesn't allow you to manually unmount as long as it works as advertised.

In my brief play around with the WWDC release, the network browsing wasn't working at all.

[cpac]

my problem comes when the "network" icon includes only folders which are equivalent to Windows' Workgroups. Nothing appears inside those folders and so there's no way to authenticate...(so that I could actually see the share)

If I happen to know the name of the share, I can connect, via the command-K connect to server dialog, but unlike in Jaguar, I can't browse....

[tooki]

Well the problem with method #1 is that since you can't manually unmount, you still get the Finder hang till it decides to time out, and they don't show up on the desktop, even after you have caused them to ask for your password (volumes mounted both ways are presented in the Finder path as being just inside "my computer", but if you actually open a "my computer" window, only volumes mounted via method #2 show up).

tooki

[geekwagon]

Originally posted by Mr Scruff:
Without having done extensive testing on Panther - I took it that the first method you outline is standard style 'automounting', similar to where you browse network shares on windows.

You don't need to explicitly unmount these shares as the automounter handles the mounting/unmounting process as neccessary.

The second method you describe is more akin to manual 'hard' mounts, although on OS X this also uses the apple automounter which confuses the issue...

Basically, there's nothing wrong with there being two methods, one of which doesn't allow you to manually unmount as long as it works as advertised.

In my brief play around with the WWDC release, the network browsing wasn't working at all.

Agreed that they are on the right track with the way they are doing it.. They are using the automounter kind of like how it works on other Unixes like Solaris for NFS filesystems (although they have to have the option for authentication since they are using it for other kinds of network exports such as SMB and AFP.) Unfortunately it seems like they still don't have the automounter configured quite correctly to unmount the shares after a period of inactivity, or the period is too long.

Also, they need to fix the Finder to not care about automounted filesystems becoming disconnected (analogous to soft NFS mounts.) Once they do these two things then the current way of using the automounter should work great for most users.

Personally, I would like it if there was a way to tell the automounter the name of a server to look for, like how you use the /net filesystem on Solaris, or typing \\servername in the run dialog box on Windows too. Right now if the server doesn't show up in the browse list you have to actually mount the share to access it instead of using the automounter. How it works now is essentially useless for NFS because NFS doesn't have a concept of "browsing." I like being able to use the /net automounter to ad-hoc connect to NFS servers without actually mounting it.

[Judge_Fire]

What I just learned in another thread:

If you have trouble browsing AppleTalk servers using the Network (icon) browsing method, check that you have AppleTalk enabled in Applications : Utilities : Directory Access.

It's off by default.

J

[beverson]

Originally posted by Judge_Fire:
What I just learned in another thread:

If you have trouble browsing AppleTalk servers using the Network (icon) browsing method, check that you have AppleTalk enabled in Applications : Utilities : Directory Access.

It's off by default.

J

J, you are a wonderful, wonderful person.

This was giving me fits. I turned on AppleTalk in the Network pref pane, but it seemed to do no good. Now, why this is off by default, I have no idea....

Anyway, thanks dude.

[beverson]

So when browsing in Network, if I access one of my Macs with the other, there is weirdness with home directories. Authenticating on either one remotely with my account, I can browse my home directory as one volume (normal), and other mounted volumes as well, including the boot volume (also normal). HOWEVER, if I try to navigate to my home folder through /Users/ of the boot volume, my home directory is locked.

Odd.

[jjs357]

I can also report networking wierdness.

Here is what I just sent to the macwindows.com site moderator John Rizzo:

I am having 2 problems with Windows networking.

1. For my office network, network browsing does not work. I do not see any machines in my company's domain even thought there are plenty of machines exporting shares (as evidenced by what I see on my windows XP box's network neighborhood). In fact the domain itself does not even show up as a folder that contains machines with shares.

I did check the system.log file that is available through the console application and I see repeated messages of the form:

Oct 27 14:11:59 localhost DirectoryService[206]: Unable to browse contents of workgroup (<company-domain-name>) due to 192.168.101.5 returning NT_STATUS_ACCESS_DENIED

In place of <company-domain-name> I see the actual domain name of course.

So something could be wrong with my office's network setup, or it is non-standard and hence doesn't work with Panther. But I was expecting this to just work based on published Panther information.

2. I can mount shares with the Connect to Server option in the finder but my login credentials are not saved in the keychain even though I click the option to do so.

I suspect that these are 2 separate problems. Since I most often connect to the same machine each day, I could live without browsability but having to authenticate each time is a bit of a pain. So I would appreciate learning of a work-around for problem 2.

Jim

[cmoney]

Anyone else getting flakiness from the Network Browse function? I'm on a PowerBook that I use on 3-4 different networks a day. And so far I've found that when I connect to a new network and try to browse the share drives available, it always shows NOTHING! That is until I restart and then it shows only a subset of what's shared, and then they all disappear! Then when I go back to my home network, none of the servers show up until I restart again! ARGH! And no, logging out and then back in doesn't help at all either.

On top of all that, it all used to work in Jaguar. Hit CMD-K, choose the group, choose the server, login, mount the drive. Same functionality is now broken in 10.3.

I should also add that when I go to the Printer List and try to add a shared Windows printer, I can browse the Windows network just fine. I can't find shared printers though (another bug for another thread) but I can at least find all the computers with exported shares...

[l008com]

My server has two volumes I share and I just found out last night that if I connect to only one volume, when I go and try to connect to the other one, it won't let me connect to the server because it says I'm already connected to it. 10.3.1 will be a more welcomed upgrade than 10.3

[Anand]

Originally posted by l008com:
My server has two volumes I share and I just found out last night that if I connect to only one volume, when I go and try to connect to the other one, it won't let me connect to the server because it says I'm already connected to it. 10.3.1 will be a more welcomed upgrade than 10.3

And you think 10.3.1 is going to fix this? I am hopeing that they people that brought us Sharity will come to our rescue.

[QAFlight]

I to, cannot connect to my network, the domains show up in the finder however none of the computers will show up. "Connect to server" and brings up a -43 error. I called apple tier 2, there have been numerous calls on this.
In the directory access there is "active directory" I assume that this is to list "your" computer in the active directory listing and has nothing to do with conectivity any thoughts on this?

[Judge_Fire]

Originally posted by beverson:
J, you are a wonderful, wonderful person.

Yeah, I am, but I got my charms from nchaimov, props to him/her

As to why it's off by default, wulf in the same thread brought up the issue of AppleTalk 'chattiness' and how it's disliked by some network admins, but that was questioned by tooki, who then promptly locked the thread and invited us here.

J

[raviruddarraju]

Originally posted by tooki:
Well the problem with method #1 is that since you can't manually unmount, you still get the Finder hang till it decides to time out, and they don't show up on the desktop, even after you have caused them to ask for your password (volumes mounted both ways are presented in the Finder path as being just inside "my computer", but if you actually open a "my computer" window, only volumes mounted via method #2 show up).

tooki

We still get the finder hangs??? Come'on, how long will they take to fix this issue. I use mounts all the time on my iBook, and keep waiting all the time at those finder hangs. I have been fed up with this issue for ever.

[Love Calm Quiet]

And Apple has been silent about all this? ... and wants me to upgrade to Panther?

[geekwagon]

Originally posted by raviruddarraju:
We still get the finder hangs??? Come'on, how long will they take to fix this issue. I use mounts all the time on my iBook, and keep waiting all the time at those finder hangs. I have been fed up with this issue for ever.

I have yet to see a finder hang with unavailable servers in 10.3. I have tested it with NFS, SMB and AFP shares. In each case I immediately get a dialog bog that states the server is unavailable and asking if I would like to disconnect. The beachballing problem seems to be gone.

[Nai no Kami]

For those who can't see the servers in a workgroup using SMB, you may verify that the number of servers to be displayed is above 500. In a traffic peak the servers showed slowly and disappeared when the number reached above 500 (last number of items shown was 493).
Maybe someone can verify this.

Cheers

Ah. Feedback submitted.

[JRT]

I was having big problems with connecting to an appletalk network even after changing the directory access settings UNTIL I reset my PRAM. Now it works as expected.

Still having issues with SMB though...

[Alex Duffield]

The only way to unmount these cleanly is using the command line (sudo umount [path to the share])!!!!

This is not true. You can right click on the "ServerName" in /network/local(or workgroupname)/ServerName/ and select eject. (or control click if you using a silly one button mouse)

[TC]

Originally posted by tooki:
One way is to connect by double-clicking a server in the Network window. It brings up a password dialog box that has Cancel, Guest, and OK buttons (no way to save in Keychain), and then, all the shares on that server show up in the window for that server. The shares are mounted under /private/var/automount/Network/ServerName/ShareName (e.g. for my server Crawdad, the share Cambaridae is at /private/var/automount/Network/Crawdad/Cambaridae). The only way to unmount these cleanly is using the command line (sudo umount [path to the share])!!!! Shares mounted this way do not show up on the desktop nor in the sidebar.

I have been able to unmount this type in the Finder by going back into the network folder and choosing eject from the contextual menu of the server.

There are lots of other problems with the network icon. Try this. Connect to a server using the Network folder in icon view. After you have connected to the server click on one of your hard disks on the side panel of the finder and then click on the network folder again. Now if you change to column view and select the server you just connected to it will ask you to authenticate again. If you go out of this finder window, for example by clicking on the desktop, and then come back it will show you properly connected in column view.

I also noticed that if I connect to a computer using the new network folder method I don't have the same privileges on the server as if I connect using the old Connect To Server method. For example if I have the server g3 and my user name is me then under the folder g3 I see a folder me as one of the shares but if I go to Users in g3 it shows the me folder with a no entry red symbol. If I Get Info it shows me as being the owner but says I have no access.

Seems like a step backwards from 10.2.

Also, why don't we have contextual menus for items in the side panel? You have to use the action button to get at that kind of thing.

[cmoney]

Originally posted by geekwagon:
I have yet to see a finder hang with unavailable servers in 10.3. I have tested it with NFS, SMB and AFP shares. In each case I immediately get a dialog bog that states the server is unavailable and asking if I would like to disconnect. The beachballing problem seems to be gone.

I've seen it semi-consistently. I have an alias on my desktop to a server that's sometimes off. When it's off and I open the alias, sometimes, it will hang my Finder and give me a beach ball. And as soon as I get the server available again, Finder connects and starts working again. This is a Mac server also, so no Windows funny business going on. In fact, I did it just now to see if it would do it. And sure enough, my Finder is now hung.

Only 2-3 times have I seen the dialog box saying it's unavailable.

Oh, and this is a clean install of Panther onto a newly formatted hard drive.

[Edit: I got the dialog box a little over a minute after I opened that alias. So it's good that it's giving the dialog box, but >1 minute of an unusable Finder is still unacceptable IMHO, especially if they could just spawn a new thread that doesn't block the UI (if that's a possibility).]

[Brass]

I can manually unmount volumes mounted by both methods, using COMMAND-E (for "eject" or unmount).

When selecting a SERVER (not a volume) in the Network directory that has been mounted, I do a command-E, and it's volumes disappear, and gets replaced with the "connect" button.

[geekwagon]

Originally posted by cmoney:
I've seen it semi-consistently. I have an alias on my desktop to a server that's sometimes off. When it's off and I open the alias, sometimes, it will hang my Finder and give me a beach ball. And as soon as I get the server available again, Finder connects and starts working again. This is a Mac server also, so no Windows funny business going on. In fact, I did it just now to see if it would do it. And sure enough, my Finder is now hung.

Ok, I remember that happening once when I used an alias to an AFP server that was unavailable. I just tested it using an alias to a SMB (WIndows) share, and it has no problem then though, so it must be limited to aliases to AFP shares.
I never use aliases to drives, I always mount them from the "Connect to Server.." window or via the Network icon. In those cases it always works as expected. So it seems they have at least fixed 90% of the situations that could occur in, sorry to hear that the one you use is in the remaining 10%.

[parsec_kadets]

Originally posted by Alex Duffield:
This is not true. You can right click on the "ServerName" in /network/local(or workgroupname)/ServerName/ and select eject. (or control click if you using a silly one button mouse)

This seems to work fine for AFP, but it doesn't work at all for Samba shares for me. The only way I have found to disconnect from a Samba share is to disconnect from the network (going home for example). When I do this I get two dialogs asking if I want to disconnect. One asks if I want to disconnect, and the other one asks if I'm sure I want to disconnect (one of the reasons I switched to Mac was because it didn't pop up dialogs asking if you're sure, you're sure). This is especially aggravating because I get these two dialogs for EVERY shared folder on a computer I have connected to. The other night I had to click through 10 of them for ONE sever. That is obsoletely unacceptable. My impression from using the dev builds is that Apple put off fixing these problems and then ran out of time. I would rather they delayed the release.

[Terri]

This is going to be a support nightmare for me.

All mounted volumes should appear on the desktop so that they can be dragged to the trash for unmounting.

[Brass]

Originally posted by Terri:
This is going to be a support nightmare for me.

All mounted volumes should appear on the desktop so that they can be dragged to the trash for unmounting.

Agreed, with the caveat that this fits the user's Finder Preferences for what is displayed on the desktop. At least they should be unmountable one way or the other. All mounted volumes should appear in the left pane of Finder windows, and have the little "eject" symbol next to them where appropriate.

[Anand]

What kills me is that one mac running panther has a hard time connecting to another mac running panther. That is just pathetic. And what the hell is Rendezvous for? I thought that was supposed to make our life easy.

[GENERAL_SMILEY]

If it is any use to anybody this is the Applescript App I use to mount my networked RAID:

try

mount volume "smb://loginass@SERVER/RAID1"


end try


Seems to work as well in Panther as it did in Jaguar - if not slightly better.

I eject it with this recorded Applescript App:

tell application "Finder"
activate
eject disk "RAID1"
end tell

I find not forgetting to eject disks still continues to be the best thing to do.

[JLL]

Originally posted by beverson:
This was giving me fits. I turned on AppleTalk in the Network pref pane, but it seemed to do no good. Now, why this is off by default, I have no idea....

I think that Apple have been trying to kill AppleTalk for a couple of years now - it's outdated, chatty and slow.

Please remember that AppleTalk != AFP.

[[APi]TheMan]

Originally posted by JLL:
I think that Apple have been trying to kill AppleTalk for a couple of years now - it's outdated, chatty and slow.

Please remember that AppleTalk != AFP.

Yeah. Apple's trying to deprecate AppleTalk.

Being that AppleTalk works without TCP/IP it's kinda like Rendezvous, no?

[Macpilot]

I was able to get WinXP to Panther via Ethernet to work. The WinXP box sees the Mac but I can't see the WinXP box.

However, it was VERY slow. I wonder if it was because of the XP laptop not having the Gigabit Ethernet? Or something to do with Panther/XP.

I was unable to get networking of any kind to work via Airport.

[raviruddarraju]

Originally posted by geekwagon:
I have yet to see a finder hang with unavailable servers in 10.3. I have tested it with NFS, SMB and AFP shares. In each case I immediately get a dialog bog that states the server is unavailable and asking if I would like to disconnect. The beachballing problem seems to be gone.

How about disconnecting from drives when you go offline? For e.g. in jaguar, I connect to a share, and take my iBook offline. Beachball always shows up trying to disconnect from that dead share. Is this still the case in panther?

[geekwagon]

Originally posted by raviruddarraju:
How about disconnecting from drives when you go offline? For e.g. in jaguar, I connect to a share, and take my iBook offline. Beachball always shows up trying to disconnect from that dead share. Is this still the case in panther?

No, not if the drive was mounted via the Connect To Server dialog box. As was discussed earlier in this thread it can happen if you connect to the server via an alias to the share.

[Terri]

I was connected through the network browser and when I woke my Powerbook up I got a dialog that let me know that I was no longer connected with a choice of try again or disconnect. Worked very well with no hang. Still bugs me that network shares do not show up on the desktop.

[camion]

Originally posted by parsec_kadets:
This seems to work fine for AFP, but it doesn't work at all for Samba shares for me. The only way I have found to disconnect from a Samba share is to disconnect from the network (going home for example). When I do this I get two dialogs asking if I want to disconnect. One asks if I want to disconnect, and the other one asks if I'm sure I want to disconnect (one of the reasons I switched to Mac was because it didn't pop up dialogs asking if you're sure, you're sure). This is especially aggravating because I get these two dialogs for EVERY shared folder on a computer I have connected to. The other night I had to click through 10 of them for ONE sever. That is obsoletely unacceptable. My impression from using the dev builds is that Apple put off fixing these problems and then ran out of time. I would rather they delayed the release.

This has also been my experience. AFP seems to work fine either way, but SMB doesn't work right unless I go the Go --> Connect to Server route and explicitly type in the share name. When I browse SMB by either method I encounter problems.

[raviruddarraju]

Originally posted by Terri:
I was connected through the network browser and when I woke my Powerbook up I got a dialog that let me know that I was no longer connected with a choice of try again or disconnect. Worked very well with no hang. Still bugs me that network shares do not show up on the desktop.

good good good. I am happy.

- ravi

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Macpilot:
I was able to get WinXP to Panther via Ethernet to work. The WinXP box sees the Mac but I can't see the WinXP box.

However, it was VERY slow. I wonder if it was because of the XP laptop not having the Gigabit Ethernet? Or something to do with Panther/XP.

At 100baseT you *should* be getting at least around 5MBytes per second.

-s*

[Macpilot]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
At 100baseT you *should* be getting at least around 5MBytes per second.

-s*

Is it 5 megabytes, or 5 megabits? It was painfully slow to transfer 2 Gigs, something like a few hours.

So is 100 megabits the same as 1 megabyte?

I am confused!

[cpac]

byte = 8 bits.

that's not directly related to ethernet, which comes (iirc) in three speeds:

10 Base T
100 Base T
1000 Base T (gigabit ethernet)

--------

Any chance the XP box has firewire? You could do a target disk mode then and transfer the files in a minute or two.

[Macpilot]

Wow, I did not know PCs could do firewire target disk.

I guess you would need the 4 pin to 6 pin cable though.

[C.J. Moof]

Originally posted by Macpilot:
Wow, I did not know PCs could do firewire target disk.

I guess you would need the 4 pin to 6 pin cable though.

No, they don't. But XP can do IP over firewire.

[LoungeBoyKip]

I have a Brother MFC-9700 connected to a Mac Cube running OS 10.3 (Panther) with printer and Windows file sharing enabled.

My laptop running Windows XP sees the Mac and the shared volumes just fine using our wireless connection and I'm able to get out to the Internet no problem.

But the XP laptop doesn't see the shared printer that's connected to the Mac.

I've tried using the Add Printer wizard but nothing shows up. And the Apple docs say I need to add an SMB printer in XP but I don't see how to do that?

Is there another way? I don't know Windows very well and XP even less.

[SMacTech]

Originally posted by LoungeBoyKip:

But the XP laptop doesn't see the shared printer that's connected to the Mac.

Check and see if Internet Firewall is enabled on your XP box. Right click on My Network Places icon, select properties, then select your NIC and right click, select properties, click on the Advanced tab and turn off Internet Connection Firewall.

[MrNo]

I can confirm that Airport reception is worse in Panther then it was in Jaguar. I used to be able to walk to the second floor of my house and get 2 bars now I get nothing. I didn't move the base station or change any other settings.