[mauimac]

Hi, I'm starting to design a website, and I wanted to know if it is possible to set up GoLive so that the windows will automatically resize themselves in someone's browser..instead of being a set size. Otherwise, I am wondering what size people typically use for sites these days (580 pixel width or larger?).
Thanks in advance!

[Chris O'Brien]

you could just add the javascript window.resizeTo(val,val); yourself (I don't know anytihng about golive, I'm afraid). However - I really wouldn't bother. Unless it's a specific purpose in a full scale web app, it's just going to annoy people browsing to your site - (it annoys the fcuk out of me - I have my browser set the way I want it and I shouldn't be told by some web designer how it should be). Sorry - pet hate.

[mauimac]

so, browsers themselves do the resizing? Sorry, I'm html-ignorant, I wouldn't know what to do with that code...
should I just go with GoLive's 17" moniter setting then..will that annoy the fewest people?

[philzilla]

Originally posted by Black Book:
Unless it's a specific purpose in a full scale web app, it's just going to annoy people browsing to your site - (it annoys the fcuk out of me - I have my browser set the way I want it and I shouldn't be told by some web designer how it should be). Sorry - pet hate.

yeah, i'm the same. i'll close it and not return. ugh.

[mauimac]

so, what's the best way to set up web pages' sizes? I want to make everyone happy and don't want to pi$$ people off so they leave! Is there a tutorial on this somewhere? or a tutorial on how to incorporate that javascript? thanx!!

[Oisín]

Originally posted by mauimac:
so, what's the best way to set up web pages' sizes? I want to make everyone happy and don't want to pi$$ people off so they leave! Is there a tutorial on this somewhere? or a tutorial on how to incorporate that javascript? thanx!!

I'm not sure I understand quite what you mean... Normally, you don't have to do anything about the "size" of the homepage, because the size depends on how big the browser window is, which can change for every user.

In fact, as Black Book said, forcefully changing the size of the window is one of the most annoying things ever! I have my FireFox set up to open all new windows in the same window, so if some site decides that it wants to make the window 50x50 pixels, my entire FireFox becomes a miniature little square in the top left corner of my screen, and I have to manually drag it back out to normal size. Insanely annoying.

If you don't do anything about the size, it will just take up 100% of the browser's width and height like any other website, whatever the size of the browser.

(I don't know anything about GoLive either, so I don't know what these 17" setting thingies are, but I suspect it has more to do with how GoLive displays the page when you're making it than how it will actually appear in someone's browser)

[mauimac]

Thanks Olsin, that clarifies things a bit for me...I'm just not sure what consitutes "forcefully" changing/setting the size..I guess you mean when people SPECIFY smaller windows that open separately...
anyway in GoLive when you design the page you make a layout grid and can choose the width and height in pixels...so THAT may be resized by browsers, huh?! I think I get it now...thanks!!

[Oisín]

Originally posted by mauimac:
Thanks Olsin, that clarifies things a bit for me...I'm just not sure what consitutes "forcefully" changing/setting the size..I guess you mean when people SPECIFY smaller windows that open separately...

Yes, exactly - or even worse, specify that the original window should change its size (ie. without even bothering to open a new window and then change that window's size instead).

anyway in GoLive when you design the page you make a layout grid and can choose the width and height in pixels...so THAT may be resized by browsers, huh?! I think I get it now...thanks!!

Hmm... that seems more like it might be a table within the page. The size of that table will be the same in all browsers if it's set to pixels, but the table will not fill out the whole page; there will also be a background.

I guess the fact that GoLive starts out with tables (if it is indeed a table) is just another good reason to move away from WYSIWYG website programs as fast as you can, and start coding the pages yourself

[Chris O'Brien]

The layout of web sites is one of the most talked about things in web design. What's the optimum number of words to a line? How wide should it be? what font size do i use? do i center the main text or have it to the left/right? and a whole raft of other debates.

The main points to take out are that there doesn't seem to be a right answer (although there are many wrong one, if that makes sense). Take a look around a list apart for various insights into the problem (fixed width designs, liquid designs or elastic designs. I'd go with an elastic design, but then you still need to look at the problems inherent with fixed width designs - what's the minimum width acceptable? Obviously, some tit viewing your site with a browser window 100px wide deserves to not only have horizontal scrollbars appearing, but various limbs removed.

Use google to your fullest advantage for more information than I can give.

It's a discussion that could go on all day/week/month and it's very much a trial and error thing. Get some people to give you feedback (us?) and see what happens.

Like Ois�n, I have no idea what GoLive is like, and hence the settings you are talking about.

[philzilla]

Originally posted by mauimac:
anyway in GoLive when you design the page you make a layout grid and can choose the width and height in pixels...so THAT may be resized by browsers, huh?! I think I get it now...thanks!!

are you on about this?

[snip]

if so, then that just shows you the available browser window size for a maximised browser window, with the Dreamweaver equivalent looking like this:

[snip]

i always use 800*600 maximised, and never really make anything wider than 760px

now, i may have missed your point there, but i think that's what you've been on about? make sense to anyone else?

[edit] deleted images off the server in an image cull, so there's no point in slowing the page down with broken links!

[Amorya]

A skilled web designer can make their pages look good at any size, from a phone (circa 120 pixels wide) all the way up to a maximised window on a Cinema display.

When designing web pages, it's best not to design for any specific width or screen size.

Don't forget, also, that not everyone likes their browser windows to fill the screen. Mine are about 690 pixels wide, despite me running a resolution of 1024x768.

Don't try anything like resizing the browser window of your users. If a site does that, I will never visit it again - and I don't think I'm the only one for whom it is an annoyance. It's nearly as bad as animated backgrounds or MIDI background music!

The web is not print. You do not have enough control to make your page render exactly the same on everyone's setup. Don't even try. Your goal is to make the page render well on all setups, not to render pixel-perfectly identical.


Amorya

[mauimac]

phzilla, what version of GoLive do you have that you screencapped? That is exactly what I meant, but mine doesn't ahve all the info as yours does...just 100, 200, 520, 580 (14" monitor), 780 (17'' monitor) tracing image & settings in the drop down menu...

Thanks for the great insights everyone!! I will continue to research this and learn about GoLive's capabilities.

[philzilla]

Originally posted by mauimac:
phzilla, what version of GoLive do you have that you screencapped?

that'll be GoLive CS

[mauimac]

OK, I have GoLive 6 (educational version)..that is interesting..I thought CS was a scaled down version...or is it a more enhanced version? *confused*

[philzilla]

Originally posted by mauimac:
OK, I have GoLive 6 (educational version)..that is interesting..I thought CS was a scaled down version...or is it a more enhanced version? *confused*

it's really just GoLive 7.0 with letters instead of numbers.

[mauimac]

OK! thanks for clarifying that...I hope to upgrade soon...is it worth it though to go from 6 to 7? what's new and different? when is 8 coming?

[philzilla]

Originally posted by mauimac:
OK! thanks for clarifying that...I hope to upgrade soon...is it worth it though to go from 6 to 7? what's new and different? when is 8 coming?

no idea about 6-7, because i didn't use it before (not that i do now), and i've no idea about v8, sorry.

[Chris O'Brien]

Originally posted by philzilla:
not that i do now

Just as well you said that man, otherwise your standing in the 1337 web dev. community would've gone down a notch!

[philzilla]

Originally posted by Black Book:
Just as well you said that man, otherwise your standing in the 1337 web dev. community would've gone down a notch!

the only reason i have it on my system, is that it was free inside this box

[Chris O'Brien]

My god! Someone else using a Blue and White? I thought I was the only one...

[philzilla]

it might look blue & white, but it's got an 800Mhz G4 in there. i was going to get a G5 with the money from the book, but i settled for gadgets and a month in the US. i'll get a G5 when i get back from that little trip.

[James L]

I am just jumping in here, but with regards to page and window size..

1) If a website EVER resizes my browser window I am gone, and will never look at that site.

2) When deciding on web layout, you basically have 2 main options, fluid design or static design. Here is an example of fixed, or static design:

http://www.alistapart.com/

Note that the page is a fixed width, and doesn't change as you manipulate the window size, you just see more or less of the background is all. The page is centered, so the extra space is viewed on the sides. Here is another example:

www.cknw.com

...this time the width is still fixed, but the page is set to the left margin and the extra space is on the right side.

When determining how wide to make your page in a fixed width design it is important to have a good idea of screen resolutions. According to the stats on the sites I manage 42% of my visitors are still in 800 x 600 resolution, with another 45% or so in 1024 x 768. This means that if I was to do a fixed width design for my customers I would want it to look great in those two resolutions for sure. In order to design for an 800 pixel wide screen you should make the width about 750 pixels, which leave space for browser window scroll bars, etc. This way your page doesn't have a horizontal scroll bar. In people with resolutions larger than 800 x 600 they will see more background, like the two sites above.

For an example of a fluid design, which is how you should be designing most sites IMHO, go to:

www.macrumors.com

Resize the browser window and watch what happens. The site resizes itself because parts of it are laid out using percentages for width, not fixed pixel amounts.

I hope this helps!

Cheers,

James