[alligator]

I would have expected Apple to at least announce a replacement for Flash with the 3G iPhone, or a partnership with Adoble, but still nothing! Is anyone else still frustrated by the lack of Flash support? It really isn't the true internet without flash on some sites. It's very, very close, but I need Flash!

[64stang06]

I'm in the minority but I enjoy not having flash on my phone.

[Koralatov]

Originally Posted by 64stang06 

I'm in the minority but I enjoy not having flash on my phone.

I’m in the same minority. Having seen the way that Flash absolutely kills my MBP’s battery-life—not to mention the fact it causes my fans to spin up like mad—I’m genuinely glad that it’s not on the iPhone. Overall, whilst Flash sometimes has some nice effects and the like, I don’t think it’s a dealbreaker that it isn’t included; and the fact that it’s implemented so terribly on OSX (and would likely be just as bad on the iPhone), I can see why leaving it off could actually be a selling point for some.

[alligator]

Really? I wasn't aware it affected battery life. I figured once the processor was running, it was the same power consumption. If it does take more power, then that explains a lot.

[Koralatov]

Originally Posted by alligator 

Really? I wasn't aware it affected battery life. I figured once the processor was running, it was the same power consumption. If it does take more power, then that explains a lot.

An active processor (one carrying out lots of tasks) definitely uses more power than one just sitting there. You can do a quick-and-dirty measurement of this by just putting your hand on the bottom of you laptop when it’s sitting idle and then doing the same when it’s doing something processor intensive—the difference in heat is astounding. You can also monitor it by the amount of fan activity there is—faster fans mean more heat which means more activity which means more power being used.

I’m not sure that Flash itself is inherently a processor hog (it doesn’t seem to affect a PC as badly), but on the Mac it most certainly is. I can transcode films from DivX to DVD with iDVD and take less of a performance hit than I suffer when I’m looking at a Flash video. However, that said, I still think using Flash on an iPhone would cane the battery something chronic; your five/six/whatever hours of browsing would rapidly dwindle to one or two.

[DigitalEl]

I'm too lazy to find the link and post it, but there was a long article on Roughly Drafted explaining how Apple is unlikely to ever put Flash on the iPhone. It's philosophical... And Apple has even removed all vestiges of Flash from its website (I didn't realize there was ever any on there). The article goes on to explain Apple prefers HTML-based standards and CSS, citing Google is doing the same thing.

Okay, here's the Roughly Drafted article.

[Kenneth]

I don't see the point of Flash as well. My Nokia S60 has a flash player, but I never used/found any flash content.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by alligator 

Really? I wasn't aware it affected battery life. I figured once the processor was running, it was the same power consumption. If it does take more power, then that explains a lot.

Not by a long shot. Your CPU (and GPU for that matter) draws more power when it has to work harder. That's the reason it heats up under load.

Every time your Mac gets hot, you're draining more battery. OS X Flash implementation is certainly a great example.

[Arkham_c]

Apple announced that the new MobileMe is based on an Ajax/CSS/HTML open source framework rather than using any Flash. I played with it some last night -- the demo site is slow: SproutCore � home

From what I see, it's substantially similar to other similar toolkits like ActiveWidgets, YUI, etc. They let you build Web 2.0 sites with nicer looking components.

[BRussell]

Apparently Adobe is working on Flash for the iPhone. I doubt they'll get much support from Apple.

[64stang06]

If they do release it, I for one won't be installing it.

[turtle777]

Apple and Google are trying to break the dominance of Flash.
This is a good thing. I hope they succeed.

Therefore, nil chance that Apple will implement Flash on iPhones.

-t

[kman42]

Flash is horrible and I support Apple's plan to replace it. If nothing else, Flash is the reason that every restaurant in the US has now adopted the same atrocious UI. That alone is reason enough to kill it.

Apple's support for open-source web standards is a good call. We don't need Adobe owning the UI on the web. I would rather have every web site look different in the hopes that some will be great, rather than having them all look mediocre. I will simply use the great ones and ignore the rest.

kman

[jokell82]

Flash sucks and I hope it never makes it to the iPhone. For those that do hold out hope:
Adobe Flash running on iPhone emulator; too slow for real devices? - iPhone Atlas

[imitchellg5]

I sort of actually enjoy no Flash. It is sort of nice to browse the internet without Flash advertisements...

[Koralatov]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

I sort of actually enjoy no Flash. It is sort of nice to browse the internet without Flash advertisements...

Another reason why no Flash on the iPhone is a good thing.

[jokell82]

Another discussion of Flash on the iPhone:
Daring Fireball: Up Flash Creek Without a Paddle

[Bryanmc]

We need Flash on the iPhone because 99% of the video content on the web now is Flash.

[64stang06]

Originally Posted by Bryanmc 

We need Flash on the iPhone because 99% of the video content on the web now is Flash.

And how much is actually useful?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Bryanmc 

We need Toilets on the iPhone because 99% of the video content on the web now is Crap.

Fixinated.

-t

[Koralatov]

Originally Posted by Bryanmc 

We need Flash on the iPhone because 99% of the video content on the web now is Flash.

We really don’t. The iPhone still gets YouTube, which is more than enough video for me, and having no Flash means an iPhone user doesn’t fall victim to annoying Flash ads with sounds, or the incredibly annoying ones that appear right in the middle of the screen. I, for one, will be incredibly happy with that.

The Daring Fireball article jokell82 linked to earlier in this thread really is worth a read; it pretty succinctly explains why Flash on the iPhone is a bad idea, and why it isn’t going to happen.

[Bryanmc]

Originally Posted by Koralatov 

We really don’t. The iPhone still gets YouTube, which is more than enough video for me,

Oh, well my bad. If YouTube is more than enough video for you then I guess it's also more than enough for everyone else.

Every major network puts their video material up in Flash, THAT'S the benefit. Sure most video on the web is crap, but of the stuff that isn't crap it's still almost all Flash.

It would be great to be able to watch Hulu from the iPhone, for example.

[64stang06]

Who says those companies won't try to create an app to allow iPhone users to view their video content?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by 64stang06 

Who says those companies won't try to create an app to allow iPhone users to view their video content?

Bingo.

[Bryanmc]

Originally Posted by 64stang06 

Who says those companies won't try to create an app to allow iPhone users to view their video content?

Maybe they will, that would be great. But right now the content is in Flash. So that's why I'd like to see Flash on the iPhone.

[Big Mac]

Everyone who advocates Flash on the iPhone should read Daring Fireball.

[64stang06]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Everyone who advocates Flash on the iPhone should read Daring Fireball.

Or, use it on a Mac.

[Koralatov]

Originally Posted by Bryanmc 

Maybe they will, that would be great. But right now the content is in Flash. So that's why I'd like to see Flash on the iPhone.

I can see why you’d want it, and I can understand it, but—overall—I don’t think it’s a killer feature. Realistically, how many people will want to watch more than a couple of minutes of TV on a 3.5" screen? And, even with 3G, is the connection really going to be fast enough to make it watchable? I can’t give a definitive answer to either, but my suspicion is that they would be “very few” and “probably not”. To each their own, though.

My biggest concern about that would be the crippling drain on battery-life. It would be using not one, but three, power-heavy applications: video, internet (wireless) connectivity and Flash. Under those circumstances, I’d be surprised if the battery would hold out for more than an hour or two in real-world circumstances.

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Everyone who advocates Flash on the iPhone should read Daring Fireball.

Originally Posted by 64stang06 

Or, use it on a Mac.

Hear, hear!

[tinkered]

Originally Posted by Koralatov 

Realistically, how many people will want to watch more than a couple of minutes of TV on a 3.5" screen? And, even with 3G, is the connection really going to be fast enough to make it watchable? I can’t give a definitive answer to either, but my suspicion is that they would be “very few” and “probably not”.

People watch whole movies on the iphone when traveling. I can see many people wanting to watch hulu while stuck in the airport.

[64stang06]

You can't watch flash video on a plane, but you can watch movies already on the iPhone on the plane.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Koralatov 

Realistically, how many people will want to watch more than a couple of minutes of TV on a 3.5" screen?

Well let's see...

Originally Posted by Apple.com

Watch in widescreen.
iPhone brings you a video experience unlike any other portable device. Watch TV shows and movies from the iTunes Store on the 3.5-inch widescreen display. Just tap to bring up video controls whenever you need them.

Originally Posted by Apple.com

Videos
The 3.5-inch display gives you video like you’ve never seen on a portable device. Watch your favorite movie or rental from the iTunes Store. Catch up on TV shows anywhere. Enjoy video podcasts. Play music videos. All using Multi-Touch touchscreen technology. With a tap, bring up onscreen controls to play/pause and view by chapter. Turn your iPod touch to switch between widescreen and full screen.

Probably because it's a feature most iPhone and iPod buyers buy it for in the first place. And if you are a frequent flyer you'll have also noticed how many people watch whole movies even on their 5G iPods (2.5" screen).

[jokell82]

But you couldn't watch flash videos on a flight anyway.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

But you couldn't watch flash videos on a flight anyway.

Not now. And I wasn't trying to advocate Flash on the iPhone either.

But this ludicrous claim that nobody would want to watch more than a few minutes of video on a 3.5" screen (on an iPod forum!) is quite ridiculous.

[Bryanmc]

Originally Posted by Koralatov 

Realistically, how many people will want to watch more than a couple of minutes of TV on a 3.5" screen?

It seems like you're projecting your iPhone usage onto everyone else. Not everyone uses their device in the same way.

I personally watch a few hours of video each week on my Touch, it's become my primary video viewing device. I watch less video on my 55" HDTV than I do on my Touch. That's just the world I live in, I don't mind the small screen and like to watch stuff when I get breaks/downtime during the day.

I don't see why 3G wouldn't work with sites like Hulu. At my office we get a miserable 500 kbps up and down and am able to watch Hulu content.

[pt123]

Hey, not just Hulu. NFL.com, CNN, Foxsports, Yahoo Sports have their videos via Flash also.

[teja]

This is a good thing that Apple and Google are trying to break the dominance of Flash.I am very happy for that.

[Bryanmc]

Originally Posted by pt123 

Hey, not just Hulu. NFL.com, CNN, Foxsports, Yahoo Sports have their videos via Flash also.

Exactly. Pretty well all the significant video on the web is Flash.

[akulavolk]

Flash support would be nice if only to access Pandora.com (I'd love to have access to it on the go), and Flash video., which is everywhere. And, no, not all of the video on the 'net is crap. There are plenty of tutorials and other content that are flash-based, too. It's not all just banner ads and needless heavy interfaces for websites.

I guess it would be better if Pandora just came out with an iPhone app...that would kill one major need for flash.

[Koralatov]

Originally Posted by Simon 

But this ludicrous claim that nobody would want to watch more than a few minutes of video on a 3.5" screen (on an iPod forum!) is quite ridiculous.

I didn’t say “nobody”, I left it an open question as to how many people would want to. I know several people who have either iPhones or Touches, and none of them watch anything like a serious amount of video on it — the heaviest video user watches maybe two hours a week, tops. And, whilst I am aware this cannot be considered an exhaustive survey or indicative of iPhone/iTouch users as a whole, it does give me an idea of how extensively used the feature is.

I’m not debating that you personally might use your iPhone to watch video all the time, but I just don’t think it’s that widespread. I mean, video is a fantastic marquee feature to sell the thing with, but — as I said above — most people seem to get bored of the novely reasonably quickly and never really use it again. And, as such, I genuinely do not consider the lack of Flash video playback on the iPhone to be a deal-killer for me or most of the people I know who have/want an iPhone.

Originally Posted by Bryanmc 

It seems like you're projecting your iPhone usage onto everyone else. Not everyone uses their device in the same way.

Quite possibly, but — as I said above — none of the people I know that have either device use it at all heavily for video. Though, again, your usage will vary, and my experiences/observations cannot be deemed conclusive (and were never offered as such).

I don't see why 3G wouldn't work with sites like Hulu. At my office we get a miserable 500 kbps up and down and am able to watch Hulu content.

I stated that I didn’t know the answer to this question, though I did say I suspected 3G wouldn’t be fast enough. If I’m wrong on this, I stand corrected and apologise.

Originally Posted by teja 

This is a good thing that Apple and Google are trying to break the dominance of Flash.I am very happy for that.

So am I. Moving away from a single vendor for the internet toward widely-supported, open standards is a definite improvement. If not, you end up with Adobe owning a significant part of the web, and that is definitely no good thing. Their implementation of Flash on the Mac is dire, and the other CS3 apps are dog-slow on my MBP. Is this really the company we want to control a good-sized part of the web?

[- - e r i k - -]

Flash is just a lazy way of delivering video. All video that runs in Flash can also run through QuickTime.

You will see most major content deliverers retool for the iPhone within a year. Mark my word.

[Zeeb]

I don't care about turf wars between Adobe and Apple, but the ability to watch the videos that appear on most websites by whatever method would be a huge improvement to the iphone/ipod touch.