[Tiresias]

I just bought a Border Collie puppy. Anyone have one? Use to have one?

What are they like? I've heard that they need massive amounts of exercise. That's okay by me. But having been exercised adequately, will they chill in an apartment? I live in a four bedroom city apartment with roof space and a decent veranda. Hoping it's going to work out.

Be interested to hear from Border Collie owners about living with these clever energetic mutts.

[turtle777]

Any pics of your puppy ?

-t

[red rocket]

You should buy a second one to keep it company. Also, buy some sheep so they have something to herd. It is, after all, their natural instinct.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Any pics of your puppy ?

-t

Yessir.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

You should buy a second one to keep it company. Also, buy some sheep so they have something to herd. It is, after all, their natural instinct.

Yeah. I've been reading about the herding instinct, which is something to watch, especially when you have young children like I do. He seems to enjoy "herding" the soccer ball though. He'll actually round it up and nose it back in my direction.

Sadly though, a herd of sheep in a city apartment is prolly not gonna wash with teh landlord.

[ghporter]

Border collies are SMART, working dogs. You NEED to train this puppy. SERIOUS training, starting yesterday, so that it grows up knowing that you're in charge and that you're smarter than it is. (You are smarter than the puppy, right?) As the pup grows, give it a job. Really-working dogs get into trouble because they MUST work, and if you don't find something for them to do, they'll come up with their own ideas. That's never a good thing.

Start out with crate training-that will give your pup a "den" to chill out in while you're at work. The rest of the time, your "second job" is training and exercising your dog. Find an agility or herding club (yes they do exist) and find out how to get involved in that. Expect to spend significant amounts of time doing various kinds of activities like obstacle courses and fetching while "walking" your dog.

[Gankdawg]

You are asking all of the questions that you should've researched BEFORE you got one. That being said, listen to Glenn. Exercise, exercise, exercise.

[mattyb]

I wrote about 50 lines before I realised that it was a border collie and not a bearded collie that you got. But thanks for bringing back some nice memories. I miss my dogs.

Treat him/her well.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

I wrote about 50 lines before I realised that it was a border collie and not a bearded collie that you got. But thanks for bringing back some nice memories. I miss my dogs.

Treat him/her well.

Fifty lines of shaving tips?

[Paco500]

I just saw some article that listed the top 10 smartest and dumbest dog breeds, and Boarder Collies was listed as the smartest. I absolutely believe it, but I would guess if there was a list of the top ten most bat-sh!t insane breeds, they would come out on top there as well. I love boarder collies, but would never consider owning one. They have more energy and enthusiasm than any creature has a right too. Were I you, the first training I would do is train him/her to use a treadmill.

[Mithras]

mattyb: I had a bearded collie growing up. Wonderful, fiercely independent dog. Miss the fuzzy fella.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Border collies are SMART, working dogs. You NEED to train this puppy. SERIOUS training, starting yesterday, so that it grows up knowing that you're in charge and that you're smarter than it is. (You are smarter than the puppy, right?) As the pup grows, give it a job. Really-working dogs get into trouble because they MUST work, and if you don't find something for them to do, they'll come up with their own ideas. That's never a good thing.

Start out with crate training-that will give your pup a "den" to chill out in while you're at work. The rest of the time, your "second job" is training and exercising your dog. Find an agility or herding club (yes they do exist) and find out how to get involved in that. Expect to spend significant amounts of time doing various kinds of activities like obstacle courses and fetching while "walking" your dog.

Hmm. I'm not sure yet if I am smarter than my Border Collie. But here's my game plan.

First negative: I am an expat living in the city in South Korea. Professional obedience classes are not an option. Let alone agility or herding.

As far as giving him a job goes, the best I can offer him is in the field of tennis ball retrieval. But I have the time to exercise him between 1 and 2 hours a day, which (according to my Border Collie book) is how much he needs. I am also going to buy a bicycle. I've heard that's a good way to tire out BC's.

Another problem with this breed is that they become neurotic if left alone. This is not going to be a problem for my dog. I only work 25 hours a week and while I am at work my wife and daughter are always home. While I'm at work I'm going to keep him in a large wire cage in the living room to persuade him not to eat the furniture or herd my daughter. He'll be able to see what's going on but he'll be confined until I can get home to supervise.

But as to training, I'll have to train him myself. I have a book on dog obedience. Is it self-training a BC doable? Are you speaking from personal experience with Border Collies? I find your tone somewhat alarming, but perhaps it is only alarmist.

[brassplayersrock²]

Please find another home/owner for the dog. One that will have the time for it, and the adequate space for such an animal.

[Tiresias]

Give my dog away?

brassplayersrock², can you read?

You suggest I find a new owner, one that has more time. More time? I said that I work 25 hours a week. I don't know anyone in this day and age who works less than 40. No one has more time than me. I hope you are not a student, as your reading comprehension skills leave a lot to be desired.

As to space, a lot of people confine their dogs—including Border Collies—for 40 hours a week. Mine will be confined for only 25, with company.

I explained in my post that I have the time to give my dog 2 hours of exercise a day. That is as much exercise as his particular breed needs, according to Kim D.R. Dearth, author of a book about BC's.

You clearly don't know a lot about Border Collies. Space is not important because they won't romp around by themselves—as working dogs, they need human motivation. Thus your BC will get as much exercise as you give it, and whether it be in your vast front yard or at the park makes no difference.

I started this thread for insights about temperament and obedience. I suspect you just came into this thread on a whim and decided to dash off a careless reply solely to enjoy being sanctimonious.

What a prick.

[Laminar]

[imitchellg5]

I grew up with a border collie. They are nice dogs, as long as they have something to herd around. Then they can get a little on the destructive side. They need a LOT space to roam around in. I grew up on 7 acres, which was about right for him. An apartment would be torture for a collie, especially if you're gone all day.

[Mithras]

minty: I'd get a good book on dog training, and make an effort to follow through with it. I used a few different ones (can't remember the titles now ) in training my lovely pound puppy, and it worked out very well. It just takes persistence, patience, and a willingness to be the "bad guy" for short stretches.

[Tiresias]

Bump.

I just knows there are border collie peoples here. I just knows it.

[jokell82]

I have a dog that is half border collie. Definitely get him into training ASAP and exercise, exercise, exercise. They are very smart dogs but also can be very stubborn.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by Mithras 

mattyb: I had a bearded collie growing up. Wonderful, fiercely independent dog. Miss the fuzzy fella.

Yeah me too. Gets me emotional even at 36 years old.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by minty 

Yessir.

I'd have trouble leaving the house with a such a cute puppy like that!

[shifuimam]

Why didn't you find a dog to adopt (e.g. not buy from a breeder)? I'm no animal rights activist, but it is completely beyond me why anyone would pay money for a purebred animal when there are thousands and thousands of dogs and cats who have been abandoned and need loving homes.

[Tiresias]

There are also a lot of pure breed cats and dogs who have been abandoned and need homes!

But here's how I see it: Getting a dog is a big decision. It will be with you for about 15 years. It will cost you thousands of dollars. The advantages of buying from a breeder are, firstly, you can buy a puppy so that the dog can be socialized with children. Unless you are buying a small dog, that is very, very important, especially if you have children! Secondly, if your dog is unhealthy physically or mentally, there's a fall guy. And finally, at the breeders you can also meet the pup's parents and see their temperament, size, general appearance, etc.

[shifuimam]

We've only ever adopted pets from animal shelters. I've had six cats since I was a kid, and they've all been great. The two cats I own now act more like dogs than cats - they're very loving and social. I'd much rather adopt an abandoned animal than buy from a breeder who's just trying to make money.

My best friend's family has five dogs, all rescues. With love and care, they've all been great animals, even the two who were rescued from abusive homes.

I'd be thrilled if the whole dog/cat breeding industry went away permanently. Thousands of innocent animals are put to sleep every year because of overfull shelters, while people insist on dropping hundreds of dollars on purebred pets because they somehow think they're doing themselves or others a favor.

You want a puppy so that it can be socialized with children - do you really think that animal shelters never have baby animals? Shelters aren't just full of middle-aged pets that were abandoned when their owners moved away. In fact, the pet rescue one of my friends works at has mostly puppies or young dogs.

Not to mention that there are pet rescues that specialize in rehoming abandoned purebred animals. At least then you're not directly contributing to the breeding industry.

Sorry, but it's just frustrating.

[subego]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I'd be thrilled if the whole dog/cat breeding industry went away permanently.

Let me get this straight... you have a problem with dog/cat breeding, but you don't have a problem with cow/pig breeding?

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I'd be thrilled if the whole dog/cat breeding industry went away permanently.

It's not "the industry" that's the problem. There are two problems: unprofessional, "backyard" breeders who really don't care about either the breed or the individual animals, just the cash. And idiot, heartless "people" who purchase animals without any thought for the fact that puppies and kittens grow up, and that they might just become full-sized and thus not fit the house/yard/schedule/kids' idea of a toy.

I would love to NEVER see a pickup truck parked at the side of the road with a dog kennel on the back and a sign that says "AKC registered XXX puppies for sale" EVER again. These people (and the AKC which also doesn't care about individual animals) are a huge part of the problem, and not just the overpopulation problem but the "bad dogs" problem as well. And if it were necessary to show that a human actually had a brain, a place to keep the animal, and a plan for how to raise AND KEEP the animal throughout its life, then we would not have any animal population problem.

Sorry to vent in your direction, but our GSD came from a real breeder, one who hasn't netted a dollar over the years while producing champion dogs and wonderful companions. She's part of the industry you're bashing, but she is not part of the problem. Not at all.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by subego 

Let me get this straight... you have a problem with dog/cat breeding, but you don't have a problem with cow/pig breeding?

If there were a problem with perfectly fine cows and pigs being left on the side of the road by their owners, then yeah - it would be the same thing.

However, cows and pigs are bred for food. They are not bred because people want to feel special by owning a certified purebred bet. When a cow is born on a farm, there are not hundreds of other cows dying in cow shelters because nobody will give them homes.

[subego]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

When a cow is born on a farm, there are not hundreds of other cows dying in cow shelters because nobody will give them homes.

Those cows have all the luck.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by subego 

Those cows have all the luck.

All the delicious, delicious luck.

[andi*pandi]

why would you crate a dog if someone is home? that's not the purpose of a crate, afaik. A crate is for bedtime and alone time... right?

How old is your daughter?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

why would you crate a dog if someone is home? that's not the purpose of a crate, afaik. A crate is for bedtime and alone time... right?

How old is your daughter?

I was never for crating dogs - I always thought they should be able to roam. But the dog that I had adopted from a rescue agency was crate trained, so I bought one for him. He *loves* his crate. I leave the door open all the time, and he goes there whenever he wants. It's sort of his own little space in the house for him.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

All the delicious, delicious luck.

Thank God for the pig who gave his little dirty, squealy life for the Jimmy John's ham sub I just ate.

Originally Posted by jokell82 

I was never for crating dogs - I always thought they should be able to roam. But the dog that I had adopted from a rescue agency was crate trained, so I bought one for him. He *loves* his crate. I leave the door open all the time, and he goes there whenever he wants. It's sort of his own little space in the house for him.

One of the five dogs my BFF's family has is like that. He loves being in his crate. He's also the most rambunctious of the five, and he doesn't at all mind being crated when they're all gone from the house (which isn't all that often).

[olePigeon]

Name your dog Homeland Security.

[subego]

Few years back (say 2002), my neighbors had a dog. I was walking by and the dog started to bark at me. The owner yelled...

"FREEDOM! PIPE DOWN!"

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

why would you crate a dog if someone is home? that's not the purpose of a crate, afaik. A crate is for bedtime and alone time... right?

How old is your daughter?

It's not really a crate if by that you mean a plastic box. It's kind of more of a cage. Quite big actually. Big enough for him to stand up (obviously!), turn around, play with a toy, etc.



If this cage were the same size as ours, then it would be lengthwise about the length of one adult Border Collie and a half.

How old is my daughter? My daughter is 5. Border Collies are whirlwinds. They aren't known for being good with kids (mostly due to the herding instinct, but I've heard a few stories about snappish collies). And our apartment is on the smallish side. These are the reasons for the cage. If neither of us have the time to supervise (prevent herding, furniture consumption, canine redecorating, etc) he will hang in his cage. At other times, he will be able to roam about—in the living room, my room, my study, the veranda, the roof. And this will only be for a few years until he comes through adolescence. By then my daughter will be older and we'll prolly have moved anyway.

He'll also be getting plenty of exercise and a lot of attention. Basically, when I am not at work, the two of us will be together. I really hope this is going to work out because I already love this dog and there aren't many alternatives for him in South Korea where nobody wants a big dog unless it's on the menu.

Something like this. (Note: not my cage or dog). And only for about four or five hours during the work-week max. Weekends, no cage. I dunno, 'cos he's just a pup, but he seems pretty happy with the arrangements so far.