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Magic Mouse review (Page 3)
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OreoCookie
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Dec 2, 2009, 04:29 AM
 
The Mighty Mouse has a working middle click. (Or do I misunderstand something?) I use it frequently in Safari and it's one of the reasons why I'm not sure whether to upgrade to the Magic Mouse or not.
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Simon
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Dec 2, 2009, 04:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
The Mighty Mouse has a working middle click. (Or do I misunderstand something?) I use it frequently in Safari and it's one of the reasons why I'm not sure whether to upgrade to the Magic Mouse or not.
Quite right. Middle-click works out of the box with the Mighty Mouse.

And as surprising as it may sound, but for a so far unknown reason Apple in all its ingenuity has decided to drop that feature on the Magic Mouse. They haven't made it a preference or even a hidden option. They just simply dropped the feature altogether. It appears they intentionally dumbed the device down compared to its predecessor. You have to run some kind of third-party hack driver to get the feature. I still can't believe what a stupid move that was. But rest assured an apologist somewhere will be quick to explain you should use the mouse the way Apple intended and not the way you want.

Anyway, as long as the Magic Mouse doesn't support middle-click w/o some kind of hack I'm not buying it. In fact my entire department is not buying it. Quite simply because in a pro environment that develops and relies on X11 apps every day, not having middle-click is a solid 100% deal breaker. Fortunately Logitech still caters to that market very well.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Dec 2, 2009, 04:46 AM
 
You're implying that it's not suitable for a pro environment.

Not quite correct. It's just not suitable for your niche environment.

How would you propose a middle click work, btw?
     
OreoCookie
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Dec 2, 2009, 05:11 AM
 
Perhaps use one-finger click for left-click, two-finger click for right-click and three-finger click for middle click? Personally, I only use the middle click in Safari -- but since I spend quite some time in the browser each day, it's a biggie for me.
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Simon
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Dec 2, 2009, 05:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
You're implying that it's not suitable for a pro environment.
Not at all. I'm saying it doesn't work in a pro environment that uses and develops X11 apps. That's actually what I wrote:
Originally Posted by Simon
...because in a pro environment that develops and relies on X11 apps every day...
So shall we stick to what I actually wrote? Can you stop twisting my statements?

Not quite correct. It's just not suitable for your niche environment.
Actually you have no idea what I do. So let me ask - are you interested in hearing about the problem or are you just trying to apologize for the fact that Apple created a mouse that can't do what its predecessor did just fine? Here's the real deal: in academia, which is one of Apple's key markets, the science and technology branches rely heavily on X11. X11 is not a 'niche'. It's a make or break issue.

It's actually such an issue that Apple advertises OS X for scientific use with X11. Note this image with the X11 icon

on their "Why Mac for science?" webpage.

There is no doubt this mouse is not at all suited for these fields. Consequently Apple won't sell many to folks in my line of work. And that's quite strange considering we're usually a group of people Apple tries to cater very well to.

How would you propose a middle click work, btw?
Just the way it always worked. Just the way it works on every other mouse. Just the way right clicks work on the Magic Mouse. Let's not kid ourselves. There is zero technical reason it's not there. The third-party hacks actually prove that nicely.
( Last edited by Simon; Dec 2, 2009 at 08:27 AM. )
     
Wiskedjak
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Dec 2, 2009, 09:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
How would you propose a middle click work, btw?
If Apple can detect the difference between a right-click and a left-click, they should also be able to detect a middle-click. But, baring that, three-finger-click for middle-click works nicely.

But, I didn't buy the Magic Mouse because Apple's implementation was flawless and amazing. I bought it because of it's hackability potential. And, so far, I haven't been disappointed on that front. So far, I've got three-finger middle-click, two-finger swipe-up for Expose and two-finger swipe-down to Show Desktop. Pinch-to-zoom is still a little buggy, but shows some nice potential.
     
Eug  (op)
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Dec 2, 2009, 09:45 AM
 
I bought it because it was free with my iMac.

However, I'm actually liking it more than I thought it would, despite its obvious and stupid limitations.

The biggest plus is that it doesn't have the same Bluetooth pairing issues with my iMac Core i7 that I had with my iMac 24" 2006 with Mighty Mouse.
     
Thorzdad
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Dec 5, 2009, 11:28 AM
 
So far, I more-or-less like the Magic Mouse that came with my iMac. I do wish it were a little lighter in weight, though, but that's me. I'm having some issues with the touch sensitivity while I'm working in Illustrator...the image scrolls around if I'm not rock-steady with my hand. I also find that the "click" for the right button seems to be way over to the right, at least as far as my hand is concerned. Sometimes I'll get a left-button click when I was trying to bring up the context menu with the right-click.

This morning, I discovered that the right-click was completely MIA. Trying to re-establish it in the Mouse CP didn't work as the toggle button for the right button wasn't responding correctly. I ended up having to re-boot the computer to get things back to normal. I guess that's more of a BlueTooth glitch than anything wrong with the mouse itself.
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turtle777
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Dec 5, 2009, 11:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Just the way it always worked. Just the way it works on every other mouse. Just the way right clicks work on the Magic Mouse. Let's not kid ourselves. There is zero technical reason it's not there. The third-party hacks actually prove that nicely.
I still have no clue what it does.

The last mouse with a middle button that I saw was back in Win 95 days at work, and I can't remember what the middle button accomplished.

-t
     
Spheric Harlot
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Dec 5, 2009, 12:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Not at all. I'm saying it doesn't work in a pro environment that uses and develops X11 apps. That's actually what I wrote:


So shall we stick to what I actually wrote? Can you stop twisting my statements?



Actually you have no idea what I do. So let me ask - are you interested in hearing about the problem or are you just trying to apologize for the fact that Apple created a mouse that can't do what its predecessor did just fine? Here's the real deal: in academia, which is one of Apple's key markets, the science and technology branches rely heavily on X11. X11 is not a 'niche'. It's a make or break issue.
And there are other "pro" markets that rely "heavily" on being able to rack-mount equipment.

Can we side-step the condescension spiral for a second and agree on this:

The fact that they're "pro" doesn't mean that they're in any way not a "niche".

Academia is BY FAR not Apple's main market, any more than professional music studios are their MAIN market.

I don't complain that Apple's machines in their default config are useless for "pro" use in the media industry, because they come standard with a dollar-chip A/D-D/A stage. And this despite the fact that Apple advertises its product with audio and video professionals up and down their website, and has done so for decades.

Specialized "pro" needs require specialized peripherals.

Apple's new mouse doesn't suit your "pro" needs.

Their main market, however has absolutely NO use for a middle-click unless it's for something like Exposé.

Just the way it always worked. Just the way it works on every other mouse. Just the way right clicks work on the Magic Mouse. Let's not kid ourselves. There is zero technical reason it's not there. The third-party hacks actually prove that nicely.
"Just the way it always worked" was a dedicated click on a physical nub dead-center in the middle of what is now a purposely featureless scrolling-surface. That would kind of destroy the point.

Three-finger click is certainly workable. But you'd certainly have to explain to people who are used to just having their "hand" on the mouse and clicking by pressing that they have to count the fingers touching its surface?

So don't build it in and leave it up to third-party developers to support niche needs, I guess it is.

And it might be what Apple is doing.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Dec 5, 2009, 12:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
If Apple can detect the difference between a right-click and a left-click, they should also be able to detect a middle-click. But, baring that, three-finger-click for middle-click works nicely.
Since right-click is defined as the *absence* of a left finger, middle-click would have to be "no left finger and no right finger". So you'd have to define three areas on the mouse surface where the mouse should expect these fingers to be, for all users.

What works fine for a right-click (and even there, drives enough people batshit) becomes fairly unmanageable for middle-click - at least, in a way that's suitable for everyone.
     
Wiskedjak
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Dec 5, 2009, 12:50 PM
 
I do enjoy how "pros" think all pros work exactly like they do (more-so because my career exists almost as a direct result).

Is the Magic Mouse for everyone? Of course not; mice and keyboard preference is highly personal.
Is the Magic Mouse flawed? Absolutely, but it's hackability makes it very interesting.
Can the Magic Mouse be used by "pros"? Without question. I'm a pro. I'm using it. I like it.
     
Wiskedjak
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Dec 5, 2009, 12:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Since right-click is defined as the *absence* of a left finger, middle-click would have to be "no left finger and no right finger". So you'd have to define three areas on the mouse surface where the mouse should expect these fingers to be, for all users.

What works fine for a right-click (and even there, drives enough people batshit) becomes fairly unmanageable for middle-click - at least, in a way that's suitable for everyone.
Fair enough. I'm almost starting to prefer 3-finger-click to middle-click anyways.
     
kylef
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Dec 5, 2009, 03:35 PM
 
Every Magic Mouse owner should download this: SecondBar & BetterTouchTool Blog
     
ajprice
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Dec 6, 2009, 07:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by kylef View Post
Every Magic Mouse owner should download this: SecondBar & BetterTouchTool Blog
There's also 'Middleclick', for trackpads and Magic Mouse.

I had a go of a Magic Mouse yesterday in an Apple reseller store, I liked it, the only thing I couldn't do was the 2 finger swipe for slideshows etc. Maybe it was awkward because I was standing up over the Mac and not sitting in front of it, but I do have big hands, and trying to hold a mouse and rub 2 fingers over it did seem to need dextrous digits . The scrolling with momentum is nice, and personally I don't think I'd miss the 3rd button and side buttons. Now if only it didn't cost £55...

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
Wiskedjak
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Dec 6, 2009, 10:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by ajprice View Post
the only thing I couldn't do was the 2 finger swipe for slideshows etc. Maybe it was awkward because I was standing up over the Mac and not sitting in front of it, but I do have big hands, and trying to hold a mouse and rub 2 fingers over it did seem to need dextrous digits .
I think the trick is to not think you need to hold the mouse. I just brush my fingers across the surface; mouse stays put and 2-finger swipe works every time.

With BetterTouchTool, I've got 2-finger-swipe-up mapped to Expose and 2-finger-swipe-down mapped to Show Desktop.
     
ghporter
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Dec 6, 2009, 10:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
I think the trick is to not think you need to hold the mouse. I just brush my fingers across the surface; mouse stays put and 2-finger swipe works every time.

With BetterTouchTool, I've got 2-finger-swipe-up mapped to Expose and 2-finger-swipe-down mapped to Show Desktop.
I just almost randomly did a 2-finger swipe without holding the mouse as I read what you recommended-I wound up going back to the previous page in my browser. So a 2-finger swiped right and was back here. It's amazingly simple and easy. I'm enjoying this mouse more and more.

I have one question for the group, though. When I sleep my iMac, the mouse goes to sleep too, and it wakes up when the computer wakes up. But since I started doing this instead of actively turning off the mouse, my battery charge has dropped a lot, like from 100% to 91% in the past couple of days. But when I turn off the mouse, it wakes the Mac... Which is the better strategy for maintaining the best battery life?

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Wiskedjak
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Dec 6, 2009, 11:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
I have one question for the group, though. When I sleep my iMac, the mouse goes to sleep too, and it wakes up when the computer wakes up. But since I started doing this instead of actively turning off the mouse, my battery charge has dropped a lot, like from 100% to 91% in the past couple of days. But when I turn off the mouse, it wakes the Mac... Which is the better strategy for maintaining the best battery life?
I mostly use mine at work, so at the end of the day it gets switched off and into my bag in case I end up doing some photo work on my laptop at home.

However, I've also got the wireless aluminum keyboard at work that I don't switch off and has been running on the same batteries since February.
     
Simon
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Dec 6, 2009, 11:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I still have no clue what it does.
In OS X a lot of people I know like to use it to have Safari open links in another tab (instead of pressing cmd while clicking). Others use it for Exposé. It's quite popular among the people I work with.

In X11 middle-click is paste. Whatever you select is copied and whenever you middle-click it's pasted. In X11 this is rather crucial because in many environments that's the only copy/paste there is. More fancy GUI apps have their own ctrl-c/ctrl-v copy/paste behavior, but a lot of others don't. /usr/sh for example.
     
AKcrab
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Dec 7, 2009, 01:49 AM
 
Looks like there is another player in the "let's fix the miracle mouse" game:
MagicPrefs for Mac - Adds functions and options to the Apple Magic Mouse.
     
jonn804
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Dec 23, 2009, 07:30 PM
 
While I like the Magic Mouse, it continuously looses it signal with my MacPro and has become such an annoyance that I have gone back to my old Logitech mouse. My Magic Mouse was approximately 3 feet from my MacPro.
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ghporter
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Dec 23, 2009, 08:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by jonn804 View Post
While I like the Magic Mouse, it continuously looses it signal with my MacPro and has become such an annoyance that I have gone back to my old Logitech mouse. My Magic Mouse was approximately 3 feet from my MacPro.
I would have to think that there was something wrong with the BT antenna in your Mac Pro for that to happen. I can get my Magic Mouse more than three feet away from my iMac and it still runs fine...

I'm spoiled by my Magic Mouse. I find myself trying to use MM gestures on my MBP's trackpad-and being frustrated when they don't work.

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tonton
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Jan 2, 2010, 06:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by jonn804 View Post
While I like the Magic Mouse, it continuously looses it signal with my MacPro and has become such an annoyance that I have gone back to my old Logitech mouse. My Magic Mouse was approximately 3 feet from my MacPro.
I agree. There's either something wrong with you Mac, or you got a bad Magic Mouse.

I often use my Magic Mouse and Wireless Keyboard across the room with my MacBook Pro connected to my TV. I've never lost the signal.
n+N

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Thorzdad
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Jan 2, 2010, 06:16 PM
 
I've never lost signal as long as my MM was powered on and find the operating radius to be pretty large.
However, on the occasions of having to replace the batteries (about once a month...which seems excessive, imho), getting the iMac to re-acquire the mouse was pretty sketchy. It definitely wasn't as simple as "switch the MM back on and the iMac sees the mouse." If only. I found I had to plug-in my old wired Apple mouse and fiddle-around in the Mouse CP until some magic happened and the iMac finally acquired the MM again. Overall, it was a good ten minutes or so before the mouse was recognized again.
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dedalus
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Jan 3, 2010, 07:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
However, on the occasions of having to replace the batteries (about once a month...which seems excessive, imho), getting the iMac to re-acquire the mouse was pretty sketchy. It definitely wasn't as simple as "switch the MM back on and the iMac sees the mouse." If only. I found I had to plug-in my old wired Apple mouse and fiddle-around in the Mouse CP until some magic happened and the iMac finally acquired the MM again. Overall, it was a good ten minutes or so before the mouse was recognized again.
It is excessive. Reminds me of having to clean the rollers on a ball mouse. Users should not be expected to make that kind of maintenance effort in 2010.

As for the re‑acquisition hassles, that is just one more argument in the case that Bluetooth keyboards and acaudal mice in general are not intended for the desktop work environment.

If you get right down to it, the mouse itself is outdated. Apple were right when they stuck to the single button mouse, anything more complicated leads to repetitive strain injuries. Now they’re training users to switch to finger gestures. Good. In a few years, we won’t be mousing around, we’ll just wave our fingers, if that.
     
ghporter
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Jan 3, 2010, 08:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
Apple were right when they stuck to the single button mouse, anything more complicated leads to repetitive strain injuries.
I think you misunderstand what repetitive strain injuries are and how they are caused. Keyboarding and using a mouse at all can lead to injuries, but appropriate positioning and good ergonomic practices can prevent all of that.

I find that the Magic Mouse with it's heft is actually a positive ergonomic item, in that moving the cursor over any distance requires the user to apply more than tiny movements with the smallest muscles-one of the most damaging things mousing can do is to overwork those tiny muscles. Big movements should be made from the shoulder and elbow, which are moved by big muscles, while tiny movements (i.e. selecting one letter over another adjacent one) should be done with the most delicate and finely controlled muscles.

As long as you follow some simple rules (including not resting your wrists on anything!) while typing and mousing, they're not going to do you any harm at all.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
dedalus
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Jan 3, 2010, 08:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
I find that the Magic Mouse with it's heft is actually a positive ergonomic item, in that moving the cursor over any distance requires the user to apply more than tiny movements with the smallest muscles-one of the most damaging things mousing can do is to overwork those tiny muscles. Big movements should be made from the shoulder and elbow, which are moved by big muscles, while tiny movements (i.e. selecting one letter over another adjacent one) should be done with the most delicate and finely controlled muscles.
Yes, but do you really want to drag the cursor all that distance? I know I don’t, that’s why I use a graphics tablet. Want something on the left side of the screen, tap the left side of the tablet. Want something on the right, tap there. The only time I ever use a mouse is in ArchiCAD, and that’s only because Graphisoft didn’t think the scrolling thing through properly.
     
ghporter
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Jan 3, 2010, 12:33 PM
 
A graphics tablet is an entirely different paradigm, and one that has other issues going on. For most people (who don't do tons of graphics) a mouse does everything they need in a way that they are used to. With a mouse, you can have cursor acceleration set to move the cursor all the way to the left with just a small flick so you don't "drag the cursor all that distance."

A tablet works differently enough that there's a learning curve and that can be a problem. You use movements more similar to writing and drawing than anything else. And you can get repetitive use injuries that way as well, especially if you brace your elbow to manage very fine, precise movements with your stylus. No free lunch, unfortunately.

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Wiskedjak
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Jan 3, 2010, 01:32 PM
 
I find graphics tablets great for things that require ultra-precise movement, such as drawing. For general operating system interaction, however, I find the precision of a tablet to be too annoying. Likewise for track-balls; great for general OS interaction, but horrible for drawing. Mice are a nice middle ground between the two.
     
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Jan 10, 2010, 11:43 PM
 
For those who want more control over the functuonality of their Magic Mouse, this third-party mouse driver: Magic Driver, is something to try (It's still beta and some of the features aren't active yet). -HMD
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Eug  (op)
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Jan 13, 2010, 12:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by jonn804 View Post
While I like the Magic Mouse, it continuously looses it signal with my MacPro and has become such an annoyance that I have gone back to my old Logitech mouse. My Magic Mouse was approximately 3 feet from my MacPro.
I've encountered the same issue, although much more rarely. However, it was very disconcerting yesterday, as it happened twice in the same evening.

This is with a Core i7 iMac, just 2 feet away from the mouse.

The other point that is very annoying is that once you turn it off and turn it back on, it doesn't connect. I have to force connect it. I plug in my wired mouse and then go to the Bluetooth options to reconnect. Sometimes if I do leave it alone it will reconnect... 5 minutes later.

Apple still has some serious work to do with its Bluetooth implementation IMO.
     
 
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