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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > Time for new imac?

Time for new imac? (Page 2)
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P
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Oct 22, 2014, 05:31 AM
 
Neither of us have any inside info here, but given my experience with the company in question, Apple designed the stand for the iMac G5 to be minimalist and then just never bothered to change it. I don't think penny pinching is a part of it - Apple's design resources are limited, and this never rose to the level of them bothering with it.

I get that height adjustment would be nice, but it is not the big problem you say it is. You can't lower the display much in any case, because of the basic design of the computer. You can raise it by putting it on something (Apple sells stands like this). All that's left is the frequent changes you speak of with the motorized desk. Newegg has compatible monitor arms for $40. Compared to the cost of the iMac and the motorized desk, I just don't think that $40 is worth arguing about.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Oct 22, 2014, 05:52 AM
 
A good Ergotron is about $250.

Budget that as part of the desk; the end.
     
Mike Wuerthele
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Oct 22, 2014, 07:51 AM
 
It would be NICE if Apple did more ergo stuff, sure, but do any of us really think Ive will do so if it doesn't look like it'll fit in his all-white view of the world?
     
Spheric Harlot
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Oct 22, 2014, 01:12 PM
 
All-white?

Apart from the Airport stuff, Apple hasn't built an all-white device in years...
     
Mike Wuerthele
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Oct 22, 2014, 01:31 PM
 
Yeah, but I'm nearly sure his apartment is all white. Burnished metal looks good against all white.
     
Mojo
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Oct 22, 2014, 08:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
A good Ergotron is about $250.

Budget that as part of the desk; the end.
So including the cost of the optional VESA mount that adds at least 10% more to the cost of an iMac. When it comes time to sell the used Mac it won't have a stand unless you include the third-party stand/arm in the purchase. Selling a used iMac without a stand is going to be problematic...

No Thanks.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Oct 23, 2014, 01:10 AM
 
Having extra requirements for customisation adds to the cost of a device and makes resale harder.
Local Man confused by budgeting realities.

Full story at eleven.
     
ghporter
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Oct 23, 2014, 06:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
When I encountered my problem I compared the height of my computer desk with a wide-range of desks including some of the most expensive from well known companies. And not one of them could mitigate the problem: the desk can only be lowered so low before the tops of your knees touch the bottom of the desk.

Tilt is not a replacement for proper height adjustment; as an ergonomics pro you should know that. A few degrees of tilt doesn't lower the display. I want my eyes level with the top edge of the display. You can only do so much with desk and chair adjustments; the final touch is proper adjustment of the display.

It's funny that you should mention input devices... When I finally found a desk/chair adjustment combo that was (barely) OK using my then-current office furniture I then had to raise my keyboard and trackball. I did that by putting some books under them. Classy!
Elevating a display is easy. You put it on a box or thick books until it's the right height. The "look" is FAR less important than avoiding the muscle strain, neck pain, and tingly fingers that come with having your monitor at the wrong height. The same is true for input devices, maybe even moreso, since you can cause real problems by having your hands at the wrong height and adapting to the desk instead of adapting the desk to yourself.

I agree that a more attractive, more efficient elevating solution would be much better, but I value my neck muscles over valuing how my desk looks. I still haven't found a really direct way to locate those VESA-compatible iMacs on Apple's site. They could make it a lot easier to go with a height adjustable option if you could just see them with all the others.

I've found that furniture makers - and office furniture makers especially - don't seem to give a rat's behind about ergonomics. They make furniture that looks nice so it sells, and if people get sore while using their desks, that's the customer's problem. Chairs are even worse, since they can mark them "ergonomic" by just putting in a couple of extra adjustments (and maybe even telling the customer how they work) without explaining what they're for or how to use them.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
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Oct 23, 2014, 11:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
I still haven't found a really direct way to locate those VESA-compatible iMacs on Apple's site.
If you go to apple.com/imac and then click "Buy now", there is a text link below the list of iMacs:

Looking for an iMac with a Built-in VESA Mount Adapter?
The best would be if they could put that among the BTO options where you select more RAM and whatever, as that link isn't very obvious.

Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
I've found that furniture makers - and office furniture makers especially - don't seem to give a rat's behind about ergonomics. They make furniture that looks nice so it sells, and if people get sore while using their desks, that's the customer's problem. Chairs are even worse, since they can mark them "ergonomic" by just putting in a couple of extra adjustments (and maybe even telling the customer how they work) without explaining what they're for or how to use them.
This seems to be one of those points where the culture is different in different countries. In the office where I am now, every single desk is a curved MDF board, either on height-adjustable legs or motorized. Ugly as sin, but extremely functional. Chairs are regular desk chairs, but adjustable a million ways. I think every office I have been in in Sweden is like this. Home equipment is very different, of course (it is in fact a frequent warning about working from home).
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Mojo
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Oct 23, 2014, 02:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Elevating a display is easy. You put it on a box or thick books until it's the right height. The "look" is FAR less important than avoiding the muscle strain, neck pain, and tingly fingers that come with having your monitor at the wrong height. The same is true for input devices, maybe even moreso, since you can cause real problems by having your hands at the wrong height and adapting to the desk instead of adapting the desk to yourself.

I agree that a more attractive, more efficient elevating solution would be much better, but I value my neck muscles over valuing how my desk looks. I still haven't found a really direct way to locate those VESA-compatible iMacs on Apple's site. They could make it a lot easier to go with a height adjustable option if you could just see them with all the others.

I've found that furniture makers - and office furniture makers especially - don't seem to give a rat's behind about ergonomics. They make furniture that looks nice so it sells, and if people get sore while using their desks, that's the customer's problem. Chairs are even worse, since they can mark them "ergonomic" by just putting in a couple of extra adjustments (and maybe even telling the customer how they work) without explaining what they're for or how to use them.
I'm not all that concerned with how my setup looks but having to remove/add books whenever I need to adjust my display is a non-starter. My display weighs around 25 pounds; I would need three hands to be able to hold the display and move books while I "adjust" it... It's incongruous to have a sleek aluminum and glass iMac perched on a pile of books!

There are some excellent ergonomic desks and chairs available that really make a difference. But it takes some research to find the furniture that is the real deal. Fortunately, there are some manufacturer and review websites that provide good information. I did not find it at all onerous learning about basic ergonomics and finding a variety of suitable desks and chairs (some of them available at very good discounts).

And like I previously noted some problems cannot be mitigated solely by using adjustable chairs and desks. Computer hardware designers have a responsibility to create user-friendly hardware that doesn't exacerbate health problems caused by poor work posture. Unfortunately, Apple (and its apologists) seem to have forgotten this... It's not all about computer bling. Fortunately, there are still some companies that do consider their customers' ergonomic requirements when designing their products.

But Hey, I know when I am beat... Apple True Believers can be relentless when defending the company! Carry-on with your iMac love-fest...
     
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Oct 23, 2014, 04:34 PM
 
I'm not particularly defending them, I'm just saying that you shouldn't hold your breath waiting for it, and providing alternatives for anyone with the same problem who wants to solve it.

It's $40 for a mount and another $40 for the cheapest arm. This is a company that up until a month or so ago charged $100 for 16GB of flash - they don't do cheap.

Edit: found this if you don't want to do an arm: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824994001
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Mojo
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Oct 26, 2014, 05:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
I'm not particularly defending them, I'm just saying that you shouldn't hold your breath waiting for it, and providing alternatives for anyone with the same problem who wants to solve it.

It's $40 for a mount and another $40 for the cheapest arm. This is a company that up until a month or so ago charged $100 for 16GB of flash - they don't do cheap.

Edit: found this if you don't want to do an arm: ERGOTRON 33-310-060 Accessory - Monitor - Newegg.com
The "stand" that you linked to may support a 21.5" iMac but it won't work with a 27" iMac. (Check out the stand's specifications on how much weight it is designed to support...) Heck, judging from its construction I wouldn't trust it to support the smallest iMac either... It looks like it wouldn't take much to tip over a top-heavy iMac! Its base is laughable... but then again I don't expect much in a $50 stand.

When I looked at available VESA-compatible stands I only considered models that had my desired adjustments and were sturdy enough to safely support an expensive computer or display. The least expensive options started at around $300 (including Apple's optional VESA mount ).

All you have proven is that there are some surprisingly inexpensive computer/display stands out there. But I think that it would be foolish to trust this particular stand to securely support expensive and fragile computer hardware. YMMV, of course...
     
Spheric Harlot
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Oct 26, 2014, 06:29 PM
 
Like I wrote, I paid about 240€ for a decent Ergotron.

Does the 21.5" model come with optional VESA adapter? It used to be only the larger models.
     
turtle777
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Oct 26, 2014, 07:01 PM
 
How much was that Ergotron again ?

-t
     
P
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Oct 26, 2014, 07:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
The "stand" that you linked to may support a 21.5" iMac but it won't work with a 27" iMac. (Check out the stand's specifications on how much weight it is designed to support...) Heck, judging from its construction I wouldn't trust it to support the smallest iMac either... It looks like it wouldn't take much to tip over a top-heavy iMac! Its base is laughable... but then again I don't expect much in a $50 stand.
You're right, I forgot to check the max weight. This one then. Newegg is missing the specs, but they're at Ergotron's site. Interestingly, it uses almost exactly the same design as in that sketch we discussed earlier.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Like I wrote, I paid about 240€ for a decent Ergotron.

Does the 21.5" model come with optional VESA adapter? It used to be only the larger models.
You're right, it was. They certainly offer the smaller one with a VESA mount now. Wonder when that changed? Maybe that was when they removed the RAM door on the 21.5"?
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
donaldkepler
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Nov 7, 2014, 12:38 AM
 
Upgrading RAMN is not always a perfect solution to improve Mac performance. Manytimes, Disk Defragmentation, drive clean up by keeping only necessary apps and analysis of system configuration works well before buying new one. because after usage over time, every system needs either upgradation or proper optimization ...
     
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Nov 9, 2014, 06:28 AM
 
1) Stay on topic. This is about the new iMacs, not general maintenance "tips".
2) Defragmentation in particular is very rarely a good idea anymore, and actually actively harmful on any Mac with an SSD, which is most of them these days. Most of the value from defrag comes from the automatic feature in OS X. Drives should not be more than 90% full but other than that there is no cleanup needed.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
 
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