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Athens · Dec 10, 2011, 05:26 PM

Fired RIM execs 'chewed through restraints' on flight - British Columbia - CBC News

This is why RIM is failing as a company. If these are the kind of people they hire to run the company its no wonder the company is sinking as fast as the titanic.

In brief 2 RIM execs drunk already got more drunk on a flight to China aboard a Air Canada flight. At one point got bad enough the crew had to tie them down only for them to chew through the restraints. The pilots where going to make a stop in Alaska because of the problem but because it escalated further turned around again and landed in Vancouver. Its to bad they didn't actually land in Alaska because I would suspect they would still be in jail now if they had. But this goes to show some of the problems at RIM.

ghporter · Dec 10, 2011, 06:25 PM

So far, I have yet to find any information about what sort of "executives" Campbell and Williams were with RIM. It might be indicative of the internal culture of RIM if they were vice presidents or something, but then VPs don't usually take tediously long flights to a single destination like Toronto - Beijing. On the other hand, if they were some level of manager or "in-house consultant" going to China for some lower level purpose, then they could have simply been white collar Joe Workers - who should have been more adult about the whole thing no matter what, but probably weren't really indicative of RIM internal culture.

Athens · Dec 10, 2011, 06:46 PM

George Campbell, 45, of Conestogo, Ontario. Senior vice-president
Paul Alexander Wilson, 38, of Kitchener, Ontario. Vice-president

Blackberry fires drunken execs George Campbell, Paul Wilson for grounding Air Canada jet - What's On Ningbo

Under Sedi securities filings, Campbell is listed as an “insider,” a senior officer since 2009.

And the pair had to drive back to Ontario from Vancouver because they are bared form Air Canada

Air Canada put up passengers in a hotel overnight and then flew on to Beijing on Tuesday, arriving 18 hours late. Passengers in China, waiting for a flight to Canada, were also affected because the jet did not arrive as scheduled.

One person commented on CBC he was on the flight and it cost him a contract because of the full day delay.

turtle777 · Dec 10, 2011, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

but then VPs don't usually take tediously long flights to a single destination like Toronto - Beijing.

Huh ? Do you think VPs just stay in their cozy office all day long ?

-t

ghporter · Dec 10, 2011, 08:28 PM

VPs go on more lengthy tours with stops in between. If they need to talk to one person who is far away, that person comes to them or they teleconference. It's a matter of how much a high level exec's time is worth. You don't send someone who makes what VPs do on 14+ hour flights where they can't do anything, and certainly not in pairs. I think the news is calling these drunks executives because they were wearing suits, not because of their actual rank in the company.

imitchellg5 · Dec 10, 2011, 08:42 PM

RIM needs a change of leadership, and given their attitude towards change, I guess this is the only way to do it.

Athens · Dec 11, 2011, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

VPs go on more lengthy tours with stops in between. If they need to talk to one person who is far away, that person comes to them or they teleconference. It's a matter of how much a high level exec's time is worth. You don't send someone who makes what VPs do on 14+ hour flights where they can't do anything, and certainly not in pairs. I think the news is calling these drunks executives because they were wearing suits, not because of their actual rank in the company.

You are way out of touch with how VP's work. We have VP's flying to our plant from Montreal and Sussex for half hour or hour long speeches just to do it in person. The trip they where taking could have been worth millions to RIM for all we know. Steve Jobs used a personal Jet to meet with people in person all over the world to secure technology and contracts for Apple. Exec's spend most of the time travelling.

i'll bold this for you "Under Sedi securities filings, Campbell is listed as an “insider,” a senior officer since 2009."

Tiresias · Dec 11, 2011, 01:21 AM

When I read the headline, "Execs chew through restraints on flight" I assumed that they had liberally interpreted their contracts in order to put personal airfares on the company expense account.

It never entered my head to interpret it literally. Oh my God.

Those boys know how to party.

Lateralus · Dec 11, 2011, 01:36 AM

The Hangover, Part 3

Athens · Dec 11, 2011, 01:38 AM

HAHAHA oh this would make a good movie

ghporter · Dec 11, 2011, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by Athens

You are way out of touch with how VP's work. We have VP's flying to our plant from Montreal and Sussex for half hour or hour long speeches just to do it in person. The trip they where taking could have been worth millions to RIM for all we know. Steve Jobs used a personal Jet to meet with people in person all over the world to secure technology and contracts for Apple. Exec's spend most of the time travelling.

i'll bold this for you "Under Sedi securities filings, Campbell is listed as an “insider,” a senior officer since 2009."

"Insider" status doesn't make a guy a policy maker, and your VPs going out for 30 minute speeches is not the same as being locked up in an airplane for 14 hours... Not only because of the productivity issue, but also because it would appear that these two drunks were not going to Beijing for something as "real executive" as speeches. Further, high level people don't travel by themselves much, either; your VPs no doubt have several people traveling with them to facilitate their getting things done while they're traveling, where the drunks were on their own. (Having a staff once meant that you had someone to help you avoid being stupid on the road, but nowadays that's not always the case, since too many people figure it's better to let their bosses crash and burn than to say "hey boss, let me get you a sparkling water instead of that third highball...")

I'm not saying that these two idiots were not in positions where they would be "important to the business," holding information about important business plans and such, nor that they were simply worker bees, but the people who make policy, even on a modest scale, are far less likely to be in that position than someone who is in sales or who sets up management documentation systems and such; big jobs, but not the kind of jobs that get one known as a leader.

I would still like to see RIM say something on their web page about this issue. It's been almost two weeks and they haven't done anything there to appease shareholders worried that their company might be full of violent drunks,

Salty · Dec 11, 2011, 01:46 PM

RIM is a zombie company, they've been dead for a few years but nobody's really noticed. I give them 3-5 years of continuing to languish. By then the cash reserves will be gone and they'll get bought by HP or Dell or Microsoft.

turtle777 · Dec 11, 2011, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

Further, high level people don't travel by themselves much, either; your VPs no doubt have several people traveling with them to facilitate their getting things done while they're traveling

I think you severely over-estimate the level of VP. VPs are dime a dozen these days. It's just a title in most cases. You can have VPs that don't even have many people report to them.

-t

Athens · Dec 11, 2011, 05:37 PM

Glenn stop being so selective, you focus on the word "insider" and ignore the words "a senior officer since 2009" And no a 30 minute speech is only 30 minutes, the 6 to 10 hour flights to get here to give those 30 minute speeches are the time waster.

ghporter · Dec 11, 2011, 07:28 PM

Turtle is right. I was thinking of senior vice-presidents, with the other "title only" folks not really counting. I probably should have been a lot more specific there.

What I was thinking of was a senior VPs. The kind of people that actually do make policy. Yes, they go on 6 hour flights to make speeches, but they have at least an assistant or two with them, as I said, so that they can get other stuff done on the way. The drunks were certainly not in any way senior in that context.

If the original point was to indicate that internal corporate culture at RIM was such that this sort of thing was condoned, then I agree. If the point was (as I originally thought) that these two drunks were policy makers and thus an indication of even worse things at RIM, then I strongly disagree. It did not help that there is only mention of these two in stories about their drunken escapade. If RIM were simply to issue a statement that "these two HAD BEEN employees with responsibilities that they obviously cannot handle" and hinted at their jobs, that would look less like a real mess had happened, but it's way too late now.